not vaxing and catching the disease - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 16 Old 07-11-2008, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am all for my child catching the disease instead of getting the vaccine- for instance with measles, BUT- if there isnt much or any of the disease going around- are you worried they will catch it when they are adults when the disease is very problematic?

or, if you have a daughter- will you ever give the rubella vaccine in order to protect the fetus when she has children?

or in certain instances like- my stepfather today who shot a nail gun into his finger and the nail went through and almost got the bone! or a child does step on a nail or gets a deep puncture wound-

would you then vaccinate for tetanus-is it still a none issue?


those are the things I am worried about if i never vax-

in my heart I would stop vaxing my son , but for now there is still the feeling I have that he will ultamitely need some - at some point in his life, and I dont know how to get rid of that fear.

most anti-vax websites and most posters here have excellent information about how vaccines are not safe and not effective, but i still feel like they have done some good, and have gotten rid of disease in part, i just dont know how to decide one way or the other ( for now no vaccines until I decide though)
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#2 of 16 Old 07-11-2008, 08:03 PM
 
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No to all of the above. Being vax'ed isn't a guarantee of not getting the illness, it just might prevent or give you a "milder" version of the disease. To sum it up.


Adults can fight off diseases, granted it's not necessarily easier, but it can be done. If our kids decide they want the vaxes themselves as adults, that's their choice, however I would advise titers being run first. Many times you come into contact with illnesses and don't necessarily realize it. Same answer with rubella. Also, since vaxes require boosters, by the time kids are adults their "immunity" has already worn off. One great thing about our modern healthcare system.....sometimes they are too effective, because then adults are catching what are supposed to be childhood diseases. Vaxing for MMR and CP as a child will do nothing for an adult, unless they continue to keep getting boosters, which most adults do not.

With Tetanus....you have to learn basic wound care, which most people already know--wash with soap and water. If the wound is bleeding, it means it is oxygenated, and the tetnus spores cannot survive in an environment like that. Hydrogen peroxide can also help as well.

I personally looked up each illness and how to treat it, and how to prevent complications. I learned the importance of good nutrition and sanitation as well. I feel very confident in my ability to treat anything that comes up, and have a great doc as backup should I need it.

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#3 of 16 Old 07-11-2008, 08:05 PM
 
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take one at a time. considering them all at the same time is just overwhelming.

but to answer the question, no im not going to vax for any of those things.
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#4 of 16 Old 07-11-2008, 09:33 PM
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No to all of the above. Adults get the diseases after full range of childhood vaccinations. I did. How are my unvaccinated grown up children in more 'danger' than their fully vaccinated peers who do get it anyway? If anything, they had a much healthier childhood with more chances to have gotten immune.

Not sure where you are getting the feeling of 'needing vaccines at some point', the more I get to know the subject the more I make sure the only people who 'need' them to exist are the ones who sell them. :
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#5 of 16 Old 07-12-2008, 08:21 AM
 
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[QUOTE=jsirris;11675718]

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BUT- if there isnt much or any of the disease going around- are you worried they will catch it when they are adults when the disease is very problematic?
If you vaccinate the kids, it will be totally worn off and they will be in the same situation. Even if they keep getting boosters every 5 years. The moment they forget a booster, they are unvaccinated.

That is why we leave the kids vax free and give them the chance to get the infection in their childhood years.


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or, if you have a daughter- will you ever give the rubella vaccine in order to protect the fetus when she has children?
Most people who are immune are so because of having gotten the infection after the vaccine wore off. This was proven by several Swiss studies. They checked the immunity of pregnant women and even though none claimed to have had rubella, it showed that they had immunity to the wild type.

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or in certain instances like- my stepfather today who shot a nail gun into his finger and the nail went through and almost got the bone!
I bet that hurt! And bled! So what is the worry? Just use proper wound care.


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or a child does step on a nail or gets a deep puncture wound-
We deal with things like that as they come. For a child tetanus has never been a concern. They bleed to easily and quickly. So, no tetanus.

The only time I would consider a tetanus immunoglobulin is in case of severe burns or in a severe crush wound.


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in my heart I would stop vaxing my son , but for now there is still the feeling I have that he will ultamitely need some - at some point in his life, and I dont know how to get rid of that fear.
Education! Fear was instilled in us in order to buy their poisons. Fear sells!


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but i still feel like they have done some good, and have gotten rid of disease in part,
I guess you could start here. Proof how vaccines have done some good and gotten rid of disease. Because both statements are a paradigm but not fact.
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#6 of 16 Old 07-14-2008, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so to understand better, once the wound has bled, it would "wash away" any tetanus bacteria that may have been there? becuase once the wound closes, there is no more oxygen- can tetanus bacteria grow then?

just trying to understand better- and thanks for the reassurance!
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#7 of 16 Old 07-14-2008, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jsirris View Post
so to understand better, once the wound has bled, it would "wash away" any tetanus bacteria that may have been there? becuase once the wound closes, there is no more oxygen- can tetanus bacteria grow then?
No, not "wash away" anything.

Blood (even blood vessels that are in the area) bring oxygen to the wound and render the tetanus spores impotent.

Once the wound has closed, the blood vessels are obviously there, otherwise it would not have bled (even one single drop) and where there are bloodvessels, there is oxygen...no tetanus.

Our whole body is filled with oxygen because we have blood vessels in the most remote area of our body. If there is no supply of oxygen, the tissue dies. So, there is no lack of oxygen at any time or anywhere - UNLESS you are diabetic. That is why people who are diabetic for a long time lose limbs and are in danger of getting tetanus in a wound.

Certainly this is not the case with children who bleed so quickly and freely.

See, bleeding is not a bad thing. It shows that the body is healthy.
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#8 of 16 Old 07-15-2008, 03:54 PM
 
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I'm new to this board, and I seem to be in a minority that while I'm not vaxing, I'm not totally against it either and it seems likely to me that my kids might get some vaccinations at some point.
In the case of a deep puncture wound, heck, I think I would get a tetanus shot.
For them or for me!
I dunno, neither of my kids has ever had a shot and I can't even remember the last vax I got...it was sometime in childhood, and now I'm 42. But I did get checked for measles antibodies when I got pregnant and I had them, so I guess my vax is still working for that one. After the fact, I wondered why they checked since you can't get a measles vax while you're pregnant and I wouldn't even if someone said it was OK.
I guess what I'm saying is that in the situation, I don't know what I'd decide.
Last time I checked there the US was averaging around 50 cases of tetanus a year, but I couldn't find any details of how those folks got it. And 50 cases is very very low.
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#9 of 16 Old 07-16-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jsirris View Post
so to understand better, once the wound has bled, it would "wash away" any tetanus bacteria that may have been there? becuase once the wound closes, there is no more oxygen- can tetanus bacteria grow then?

just trying to understand better- and thanks for the reassurance!
I just wrote this on another thread. Sorry to be repetitious.
Tetanus bacteria are anaerobic. They can't live in the presence of air. So, to get tetanus, first one has to be wounded by something that, at the time, was buried in dirt or feces. Proper wound care and, yes, bleeding, would kill any spores/bacteria because of the oxygen involved.
Tetanus freaked me out, so I learned a lot about it. The year before the vax came out, there were fewer than 1000 cases in the US. It's always been seen in rural areas, and in senior citizens. If you look at the package inserts for the tetanus vaccines, you can read more.

How many adults do you know who get their booster shots? I thought I had to have shots to go to college, and that was 15 years ago. I haven't had one since. And no doctor has ever questioned me about it.

I would consider the rubella vax for a teenage girl, but I would leave the decision to my (hypothetical) DD. Same with mumps for a boy. Give them the info, let them decide.

~ Robyn

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and Cassandra, b. October 2011

 

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#10 of 16 Old 07-21-2008, 10:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rredhead View Post
I just wrote this on another thread. Sorry to be repetitious.
Tetanus bacteria are anaerobic. They can't live in the presence of air. So, to get tetanus, first one has to be wounded by something that, at the time, was buried in dirt or feces. Proper wound care and, yes, bleeding, would kill any spores/bacteria because of the oxygen involved.
Our old doctor said that a rusty nail is never the reason for tetanus-it's all about the dirt. A nail gun puncturing a nail through the skin wouldn't be a cause for *tetanus* infection.
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#11 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 05:33 PM
 
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I could worry, but I won't. I have been vaccinated against measles. Several times as a child, and at least three since I've started having children. I don't carry the titer though. So what's the guarantee that my children would?

My kids have already had mumps and rubella. It was actually easier than taking care of their allergies. They've had pertussis as well, and while that was more work, they were not in any additional danger beyond getting frustrated at not being able to run around. Having a good diet and clean water is a lot more effective to keeping kids healthy than shooting them full of chemicals and dead viruses.

Like Gitti said, it's a fear factor. They have to sell it to the American public. And here's a quote straight from someone who knows:
"Even the WHO (World Health Organisation) has admitted, disease and
mortality rates in Third World countries have no direct correlation
with immunisation procedures or medical treatment, but they are
closely related to the standard of hygiene and diet. A 1973 issue of
Scientific American revealed the same finding : that "over 90% of all
contagious disease was eliminated by vastly improved water systems,
sanitation, living conditions and transportation of food." Mass
vaccinations did not appear on the scene until a century after the
decline in infectious diseases started (1850-1940), but inoculations
were, and still are given full credit." --Susan DeSimone

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#12 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 08:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Multimomma View Post
I could worry, but I won't. I have been vaccinated against measles. Several times as a child, and at least three since I've started having children. I don't carry the titer though. So what's the guarantee that my children would?

My kids have already had mumps and rubella. It was actually easier than taking care of their allergies. They've had pertussis as well, and while that was more work, they were not in any additional danger beyond getting frustrated at not being able to run around. Having a good diet and clean water is a lot more effective to keeping kids healthy than shooting them full of chemicals and dead viruses.

Like Gitti said, it's a fear factor. They have to sell it to the American public. And here's a quote straight from someone who knows:
"Even the WHO (World Health Organisation) has admitted, disease and
mortality rates in Third World countries have no direct correlation
with immunisation procedures or medical treatment, but they are
closely related to the standard of hygiene and diet. A 1973 issue of
Scientific American revealed the same finding : that "over 90% of all
contagious disease was eliminated by vastly improved water systems,
sanitation, living conditions and transportation of food." Mass
vaccinations did not appear on the scene until a century after the
decline in infectious diseases started (1850-1940), but inoculations
were, and still are given full credit." --Susan DeSimone
So interesting. I'm reading Wendy Lydall's "Raising a Vaccine Free Child" and she swears that sanitation/good nutrition has nothing to do with the decline in diseases. She said it is some natural force we do not understand. It really surprised me.

What to believe, what to believe.
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#13 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 08:40 PM
 
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I read the same thing (have the same book) and I'm sorry but that's just not logical. It really isn't. It's not the be-all end-all for not catching illnesses true, but there's a good lot of it. Unfortunately I believe the same book mentions that catching pertussis gives life-long immunity...which it does not.
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So interesting. I'm reading Wendy Lydall's "Raising a Vaccine Free Child" and she swears that sanitation/good nutrition has nothing to do with the decline in diseases. She said it is some natural force we do not understand. It really surprised me.

What to believe, what to believe.

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#14 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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I read the same thing (have the same book) and I'm sorry but that's just not logical. It really isn't. It's not the be-all end-all for not catching illnesses true, but there's a good lot of it. Unfortunately I believe the same book mentions that catching pertussis gives life-long immunity...which it does not.
I agree. But I'm also in the middle of Aviva Jill Romm's Thoughtful Guide to Vaccinations book. I also have Mendelsohn's "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" so hopefully between these books I'm getting some semblance of fact.
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#15 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 08:51 PM
 
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Those are two very awesome books, you will get a lot of info from both. I especially love Aviva's book because it gives remedies for all VAD's (except HPV I think)...though I think it does need a little updating. I can't say enough for etiher book.....I wish Dr. M was still alive.

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#16 of 16 Old 07-24-2008, 08:57 PM
 
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Those are two very awesome books, you will get a lot of info from both. I especially love Aviva's book because it gives remedies for all VAD's (except HPV I think)...though I think it does need a little updating. I can't say enough for etiher book.....I wish Dr. M was still alive.
Dr. M's book blew me away because of how ahead of his time he was on many things, not just vaxxes....ear infections, tubes and the like. I love that book.
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