What religions don't believe in vaxing? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 41 Old 07-19-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm wonding what religion it is that I'm going to need to "convert" to so that I can get my partially vaxed child into school.
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#2 of 41 Old 07-19-2008, 06:13 PM
 
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You don't need to say you are a specific religion. You just need to sign the waiver saying it is against your religious beliefs.
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#3 of 41 Old 07-19-2008, 06:20 PM
 
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Yep, waivers are based on PERSONAL religious beliefs. That means that if you aren't part of a religion or the religion you belong has no stand on vaxes, you can still get the religious exemption.

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#4 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 03:39 PM
 
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ditto above, plus, any religion which confesses the "right to life" stance would qualify as vaccines are made w/aborted fetal tissue.
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#5 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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What religions don't believe in vaccines?

Mine.

I religiously believe that injecting my children or myself with carcinogens or neurotoxins is wrong.

We have a religious exemption and have never been asked about our religion.
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#6 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PaxMamma View Post
ditto above, plus, any religion which confesses the "right to life" stance would qualify as vaccines are made w/aborted fetal tissue.
I don't think so. That is true only for vaccinations that are cultured in aborted fetal tissue-not *all* vaxes. IMHO, it *should* be true,as there is so much death in any single shot.


Scientology and Amish? I dunno.
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#7 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 03:56 PM
 
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I believe that mentioning the aborted fetal tissue is a philosophical reason. If you want to mention a religion, you can join Christian Science. But it's not ok for them to ask which religion so the less said, the better.

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#8 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 05:34 PM
 
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It is NOT against the Amish religion and some Amish do vaccinate their kids. They leave it up to each individual family.
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#9 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 05:38 PM
 
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Claiming to be something you're not can backfire- for example, the Christian Scientists may not vax but they also don't use conventional medicine at all- which could put your waiver in jeapordy if the school nurse finds out that your child was ever medicated for an illness.

Your best bet is to be short and to the point "vaccines are against my personal religious beliefs" and if asked to clarify (and ONLY if asked) say something vague like "G-d made our bodies perfectly and it's a sin to tamper with that."

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#10 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
 
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Yep, I'm sticking with "The Religion of Nobody's Business."
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#11 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 09:00 PM
 
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I don't think so. That is true only for vaccinations that are cultured in aborted fetal tissue-not *all* vaxes. IMHO, it *should* be true,as there is so much death in any single shot.


Scientology and Amish? I dunno.
i didn't say "all", but i believe that dr. sears in his vax book cites this. along w/monkey liver, cow blood, etc. i'm not sure of the technicalities between philosophical and religious exempts. but if a person believes "god says abortion is murder", then this would be a religious viewpoint. (not wanting to open up the abortion debate here, just the "religious" aspect of vaxes)
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#12 of 41 Old 07-20-2008, 09:54 PM
 
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My friends IRL,who choose to not vax,and file a religious waiver,*never* reveal what religion they are. The public schools-here- don't ask either.
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#13 of 41 Old 07-21-2008, 01:36 AM
 
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good to know that you don't have to say what religon. Somebody told me you'd have to. And i was in the same boat as the OP. Thanks everyone!
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#14 of 41 Old 07-21-2008, 07:25 PM
 
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FLying Spaghetti Monster? Most religions that I know of allow choice of whether to or not but to directly state "no vaxes" I know of few....FLDS (well, Jeff's former group, not all branches maybe), some Amish, Christian Science maybe, not sure about Mennonites or Quakers. But still, even an athiest or agnostic has personal beliefs that can be construed as religious.....even if it's just the Spaghetti Monster.

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#15 of 41 Old 07-21-2008, 08:14 PM
 
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FLying Spaghetti Monster?
My personal favourite!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile7393 View Post
.even if it's just the Spaghetti Monster.
You will not speak of our noodily lord suchly!



I agree with PPs they can't make you prove your devotion to a religion. If they ask say "None-ya"

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#16 of 41 Old 07-21-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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FLying Spaghetti Monster? Most religions that I know of allow choice of whether to or not but to directly state "no vaxes" I know of few....FLDS (well, Jeff's former group, not all branches maybe), some Amish, Christian Science maybe, not sure about Mennonites or Quakers. But still, even an athiest or agnostic has personal beliefs that can be construed as religious.....even if it's just the Spaghetti Monster.
i can confidently say mennonites and quakers, unfortunately, have no such restrictions. spaghetti monster, hmmm, i'll have to google that one!
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#17 of 41 Old 07-22-2008, 12:45 AM
 
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FLying Spaghetti Monster? Most religions that I know of allow choice of whether to or not but to directly state "no vaxes" I know of few....FLDS (well, Jeff's former group, not all branches maybe), some Amish, Christian Science maybe, not sure about Mennonites or Quakers. But still, even an athiest or agnostic has personal beliefs that can be construed as religious.....even if it's just the Spaghetti Monster.
FLDS is not against vaccination. They leave it up to the individual families as well.

I know this because my best friend is FLDS and used to live on the same ranch as Warren Jeffs.
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#18 of 41 Old 07-27-2008, 03:38 PM
 
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I *had* to state a religion or they wouldn't let us in to daycare. I said Lutheran b/c I panicked & that is what DH is. The daycare statute in IL is very vague and they wouldn't take us without it & we were in a desperate childcare situation. I made sure to amend their medical release form to include that we don't give permission for vaxes. I hope it doesn't come up again. If it does, I will just ask how they are certified as religious experts to determine what is "right" for a religion to believe.

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#19 of 41 Old 07-28-2008, 12:34 AM
 
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Hmm... I've been wondering this as well lately. I'm Southern Baptist, but it truly is against my personal religious beliefs to inject posion into my children, so I don't feel as if I'm lying when I say it's against my religious beliefs. But, I think I've figured it out.

How about non-denomenational? It's nothing specific, yet it is generally accepted. I think if for any reason I would ever need a specific one I'd go with non-denominational. That way there wouldn't be specific other rules you'd need to be appearing to adhere to.

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#20 of 41 Old 07-28-2008, 09:49 AM
 
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i didn't say "all", but i believe that dr. sears in his vax book cites this. along w/monkey liver, cow blood, etc. i'm not sure of the technicalities between philosophical and religious exempts. but if a person believes "god says abortion is murder", then this would be a religious viewpoint. (not wanting to open up the abortion debate here, just the "religious" aspect of vaxes)
But it has to be ALL.

-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.



The Wexler Decision

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#21 of 41 Old 07-30-2008, 12:39 AM
 
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Seventh Day Adventists are against vaccination

Misti, mom to DS (12), DS (9), DD (3), and Mr. Man (October '10)!

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#22 of 41 Old 07-30-2008, 12:50 AM
 
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I *had* to state a religion or they wouldn't let us in to daycare. I said Lutheran b/c I panicked & that is what DH is. The daycare statute in IL is very vague and they wouldn't take us without it & we were in a desperate childcare situation. I made sure to amend their medical release form to include that we don't give permission for vaxes. I hope it doesn't come up again. If it does, I will just ask how they are certified as religious experts to determine what is "right" for a religion to believe.
I'm surprised they thought they had the right to ask. Schools stay completely away from that IME because it's too easy for religious discrimination to become an issue. They really don't have the right to ask you any questions about your religion. However, they may not know that.

The same day care my unvaxed kids attended with a religious exemption that they did not even question "forced" a mom I know to do vax to be admitted at all. This was before I knew her, and she didn't know what her options were. This goes to show that how you are treated can be very much determined by how well prepared you are--since I was telling the day care exactly what state laws I was exactly complying with rather than asking them what was acceptable to them, I was in a totally different situation.

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#23 of 41 Old 07-30-2008, 12:57 AM
 
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Deeporgarten... Wow... I wish I could just take that part of your brain and copy and paste

Would you recommend any reading or a list of places you have recieved your informations?

T
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#24 of 41 Old 07-30-2008, 01:29 AM
 
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I did internet research on my state's laws. I read the law itself, made sure I knew what applied to day cares, and how. Followed the "directions." Each state has some differences. This was a non-state run day care at the college where my dh works, however they received some state free-lunch food program benefits so they had to follow exactly the rules the schools follow.

I also found that there were legal precedents at Supreme Court level that made even atheist beliefs equally protected by religious discrimination laws. Basically, discriminating against "non-religious" beliefs in favor of religion is religious discrimination, as would be discriminating against a religion without a church leader or without organization or with a membership of exactly one.

This doesn't mean that every state has fair laws, or that all battles are already won. But here's some info I found from my old bookmarks:

"Religious exemptions are a little more complicated. Many states have a clause in their religious exemption that requires the exemptor to be a member or an adherent of a religious organization that has a written tenet opposing immunization. This appears to mean that the exemptor must either change religious affiliations or lie in order to claim the exemption if they don't belong to such a group. Or, so it would seem! Fortunately, that isn't the case."

"Religious rights are guaranteed in the First Amendment of the US Constitution. States must prove a compelling state interest is at stake in order to ignore this. US Supreme Court decisions have upheld the rights of individuals seeking exemptions from immunizations based upon "personal" religious beliefs. In Frazee v. Illinois Dept. of Security, 489 US 829, 1989, they ruled a state may not deny an exemption simply because a person is not a member of a formal religious organization. The Supreme Court has also noted that nontraditional beliefs, including secular humanism, atheism, and nontheistic faiths, are all "religion" for the purpose of free exercise analysis. Fowler v. Rhode Island, 345 U.S. 67 (1953) held that it was "no business of the courts to say what is a religious practice or activity for one group is not religion under the protection of the First Amendment.""

general link on vax exemptions and religion

There are quite a few resources from all sorts of perspectives out there. The state laws will help you understand exactly where you stand.

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#25 of 41 Old 07-30-2008, 11:54 PM
 
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#26 of 41 Old 07-31-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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But it has to be ALL.

-For a religious exemption you need to be "against the practice of vaccination". If you give your reasons to be against vaccinations as:

"I'm against vaccination because they use aborted fetal cells" - This is a philosophical reason.

"I'm against pre-marital sex and some vaxes are for sexually transmitted diseases." This is a philosophical reason.

Again, you have to be against the the practice of vaccination. For a more through explanation of why this is read the Wexler decision below.



The Wexler Decision
okay, i read your link, but could you please explain in layman's terms? i swear, before i had kids, i had above average intelligence. now i'm so frickin sleep-deprived, i'm a dope.

my personal beliefs are, a) that vaxes interfere w/what god intended our bodies to do and b) pharmas immorally use aborted fetal tissue. so even if i purchase a vax that does not contain it, i am still contributing to the profit of said company who uses this practice.

are you saying that moral beliefs=philosophical beliefs, but not religious ones? what if i say that god told me not to vax?
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#27 of 41 Old 07-31-2008, 03:54 PM
 
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good to know that you don't have to say what religon. Somebody told me you'd have to. And i was in the same boat as the OP. Thanks everyone!
Just so you know, not only do most places not ask, but it is illegal for any one to question you on this. Flat out illegal, they can not insist that you answer that question and it is one that should never be asked in the first place. Feel free to inform anyone giving you the third degree about that one and I can guarantee you that they'll shut up about it.

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#28 of 41 Old 07-31-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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Atually, according the the vax lawyer I consulted ,They are perfectly within their legal rights to ask you about your religion.. what theCANNOT do is deny you an exemption based on what religion you do or do not belong to. (someone can correct mer if I'm wrong...)

As far as the practice of vaxing as oppsed to the vaxes themselves.. Its not about the vaxes or whats in them its about messing with an immune system that is working the way god intended it to. Your own feelings on the ingredients or the safety vax should never come into the equation..."oh, do I think they're safe? well, I guess...I never really thought about whats in them... I just think that the immune system is made perfect by god and etc etc... See the difference?
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#29 of 41 Old 07-31-2008, 05:18 PM
 
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I forgot to say that I agree with deeporgarten that you should go into this knowing exactly what your legal rights are. You should approach this as your legal right, not something that they hold power over you for...
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#30 of 41 Old 08-04-2008, 11:19 PM
 
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We are fortunate to live in a state that supports parents' philosophical exemptions. However at one time we considered moving to a state with restrictive vax laws. We spoke to a rabbi who said he would sign a document stating that because the ingredients are not kosher that it conflicted with our religious beliefs. This is a bit of a stretch because the laws of kashrut really only apply to food not "medicine." It all depends on one's interpretation of the laws.
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