What in the WORLD?! - Mothering Forums
I'm Not Vaccinating > What in the WORLD?!
Multimomma's Avatar Multimomma 06:25 PM 07-24-2008
So, I'm a lurker, but I've been reading. I read the Peet article, and today read another article in a well-known parenting mag. Every single newspaper in our area has headlines on why you should vaccinate RIGHT THIS SECOND!

I know that they usually plan these assaults right before school starts, but I have NEVER seen so many at the same time....and I've been tracking for nearly fourteen years. And never have they been full of so many scare tactics...your child WILL die of meningitis if they contract measles. They WILL go deaf if they catch mumps.

Is some study about to be released talking about how dangerous they are? Is it a backlash for the VAERS case of Poling?

MissRubyandKen's Avatar MissRubyandKen 07:19 PM 07-24-2008
Hmmm, well I hope it isn't more than that.

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Given the increasing number of states allowing philosophical exemptions to vaccines, at some point we are going to be forced to decide whether it is our inalienable right to catch and transmit potentially fatal infections. written by Paul A. Offit, MD, director, Vaccine Education Center, and chief, Division of Infectious Diseases, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP)
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Challenges to mandatory vaccination laws based on religion or philosophic belief have led various courts to hold that no constitutional right exists to either religious or philosophic exemptions.
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Whether judged under the neutral law of general applicability test of Smith or the compelling interest test of Sherbert, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no First Amendment free exercise right to an exemption from mandatory vaccination requirements.
The state has police power over us and our children as well as power as parens patriae over our children. We have no rights that cannot be taken away from us basically.
thefragile7393's Avatar thefragile7393 09:35 PM 07-24-2008
I think it's because a lot of parents are waking up and starting to think for themselves and doing real research...and either not vaxing or doing a different schedule than the AAP's schedule. It's all about $$$$$, nothing more.
mamadelbosque's Avatar mamadelbosque 12:01 PM 07-27-2008
I too think its because its becoming more acceptable to question vaccines. Most people have at least heard of someone not vaccinating or delaying. Likely most people know someone who is/has/does, at least in a general sort of way, even if they aren't a close friend. So that just means that the medical community feels threatend and thus needs to use there usual scare tactics even more. So that they continue to make but loads of money.
Devaskyla's Avatar Devaskyla 11:10 PM 07-29-2008
MissRubyandKen

I don't know, isn't there a right to bodily integrety? I think if they tried to actually force people to vaccinate, instead of scaremongering/berating that they'd come up against some major problems, legally.
Multimomma's Avatar Multimomma 01:18 PM 07-30-2008
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Originally Posted by Devaskyla View Post
MissRubyandKen

I don't know, isn't there a right to bodily integrety? I think if they tried to actually force people to vaccinate, instead of scaremongering/berating that they'd come up against some major problems, legally.
All it takes is one more scare for the government to try and pass the forced vax that were in the 2002 homeland security bill. That bill said that people could choose not to vaccinate, but the government had every right to 'relocate' those people to a place that would minimize their impact on the rest of the US if they were infected. And just last year, in Maryland, police were given the go ahead to use dogs and 'force' on parents who tried to deliver children to school without complete vaccinations. http://americanbadass607.wordpress.c...-vaccinations/

My husbands cousin had their child taken away at six months of age because they preferred to do physical therapy for her rather than sign up for SoonerStart, and they would not vaccinate. They never got to see her again, she died at the age of seven in state custody. I'm not a fearmongerer, but i do know that this is already happening, regardless of case law.
MissRubyandKen's Avatar MissRubyandKen 02:07 PM 07-30-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaskyla View Post
MissRubyandKen

I don't know, isn't there a right to bodily integrety? I think if they tried to actually force people to vaccinate, instead of scaremongering/berating that they'd come up against some major problems, legally.
Those links come from the CDC's site. Read it. Its all about how we have no right to not vaccinate, according to them, because of cases brought before the Supreme Court that won in favor of protecting the public rather than personal rights to not vaccinate. They start with the whole herd immunity spiel.
MissRubyandKen's Avatar MissRubyandKen 02:09 PM 07-30-2008
And I agree, I do think the fact that less people are vaccinating is leading to more media pressure.
myjo's Avatar myjo 03:40 PM 07-30-2008
I'm pretty sure one of the issues here is that parents are making the decision not to vaccinate for their children. If it were just a matter of personal choice it would be different. But the state reserves the right to remove children from the custody of parents who they deem are making irresponsible medical choices for their children. Individual states now extend the opportunity to claim exemptions, but I can easily see how they might justify removing those exemptions. I hope to goodness that doesn't happen, but it's not looking good.
wunderbubble's Avatar wunderbubble 10:46 PM 07-30-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjo View Post
I'm pretty sure one of the issues here is that parents are making the decision not to vaccinate for their children. If it were just a matter of personal choice it would be different. But the state reserves the right to remove children from the custody of parents who they deem are making irresponsible medical choices for their children. Individual states now extend the opportunity to claim exemptions, but I can easily see how they might justify removing those exemptions. I hope to goodness that doesn't happen, but it's not looking good.
i swear if they take away exemptions ...i'm leaving...this is getting ridiculous that we are being forced to inject our children like this ...then left with neurologically damaged and immunocompromised children. This country is becoming dangerous for my familys' health
myjo's Avatar myjo 03:03 PM 07-31-2008
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Originally Posted by wunderbubble View Post
i swear if they take away exemptions ...i'm leaving...this is getting ridiculous that we are being forced to inject our children like this ...then left with neurologically damaged and immunocompromised children. This country is becoming dangerous for my familys' health
: ITA. I don't feel safe in this country anymore.
BAU3's Avatar BAU3 06:29 PM 07-31-2008
It seems I read somewhere that they could never force vaxes because they cannot guarentee they are 100% safe. I could see them making exemptions harder, but not getting rid of them altogether..They need that loophole.

I'll have to try to remember where I read that...
T&D2005's Avatar T&D2005 10:49 PM 08-01-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjo View Post
I'm pretty sure one of the issues here is that parents are making the decision not to vaccinate for their children. If it were just a matter of personal choice it would be different. But the state reserves the right to remove children from the custody of parents who they deem are making irresponsible medical choices for their children. Individual states now extend the opportunity to claim exemptions, but I can easily see how they might justify removing those exemptions. I hope to goodness that doesn't happen, but it's not looking good.
Umm.. where does everyone plan on moving to if something like this did come up? DH and I already agreed to move if something really serious happened. I also know it wouldn't be a pretty picture if someone tried to take my baby away... I'd go live on a boat before I let that happen.
myjo's Avatar myjo 01:38 PM 08-02-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAU3 View Post
It seems I read somewhere that they could never force vaxes because they cannot guarentee they are 100% safe. I could see them making exemptions harder, but not getting rid of them altogether..They need that loophole.

I'll have to try to remember where I read that...

You may be right about that, but I know for a fact that blood transfusions cannot be guaranteed to be safe, but doctors are allowed to get court orders temporarily removing children from the custody of their parents if the parents won't allow a transfusion to be given. It happened to a friend of mine.

The only difference I can see between the vaccines and blood transfusions is that vaccines are preventative and blood transfusions are given for already existing medical problems. Maybe that makes a difference.
chiromamma's Avatar chiromamma 01:53 PM 08-02-2008
Our local health department has been doing this full on assault for a while now. It's no wonder we have one of the lowest vaccine compliance rates. I've read that in our school district close to 40% of our kids have intact immune systems!
It is about parents thinking critically about what they are told about what's best for kids.
While one silly celebrity mom buys that bill of goods from big pharma, another set of celebrity parents (Jenny McCarthy and step-dad Jim Carrey) are speaking out about the link between vax and autism.
chiromamma's Avatar chiromamma 01:56 PM 08-02-2008
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Originally Posted by myjo View Post
The only difference I can see between the vaccines and blood transfusions is that vaccines are preventative and blood transfusions are given for already existing medical problems. Maybe that makes a difference.
I beg to differ. I believe the difference is the $$$ to be made from vaccines and the lack of liability the pharmaceutical industry enjoys.
myjo's Avatar myjo 03:56 PM 08-02-2008
You're right chiromamma, I wasn't thinking about the money issue.

I wonder what the vaccination laws are like in Mexico?
gcgirl's Avatar gcgirl 04:11 PM 08-02-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimomma View Post
And never have they been full of so many scare tactics...your child WILL die of meningitis if they contract measles. They WILL go deaf if they catch mumps. ?
Yes. My HMO's latest magazine says 1 in 30 kids withmeasles WILL get pneumonia. Um...what?
guestmama9911's Avatar guestmama9911 03:39 AM 09-18-2008
bump
zoeyzoo's Avatar zoeyzoo 02:26 PM 09-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by myjo View Post
You're right chiromamma, I wasn't thinking about the money issue.

I wonder what the vaccination laws are like in Mexico?
I was wondering the same thing about moving if my rights were taken away. I wonder if that would be grounds to defect or something?

Anyway I would not go to Canada or Mexico since the US has an agreement "To increase communication, collaboration, and the exchange of information among the three countries in the areas of drugs, biologics, medical devices, food safety and nutrition to protect and promote human health." Links to the agreements can be found here:
http://www.fda.gov/oia/charter.html

Your rights could probably be taken away there too.
paquerette's Avatar paquerette 04:51 PM 09-18-2008
I think I've heard on here that there are no exemptions in Mexico, and they still do the old inject the kids in school with no forewarning thing.
honeybunch2k8's Avatar honeybunch2k8 07:23 PM 09-19-2008
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Originally Posted by gcgirl View Post
Yes. My HMO's latest magazine says 1 in 30 kids withmeasles WILL get pneumonia. Um...what?
Do they catch it in cold hospitals??? Hmmm...
mamatoady's Avatar mamatoady 07:45 PM 09-19-2008
think of how say "the Yukon" would prosper if we all moved there together to maintain our rights...what a lovely place that would be:
FORCED ANARCHY's Avatar FORCED ANARCHY 06:19 PM 09-23-2008
These people are out to promote hate, fear, and violence towards those of us who do not vaccinate. They are also out to destroy those of us who spread the truth about how vaccines ruin lives.
mamamelia's Avatar mamamelia 04:42 AM 09-25-2008
how about if you chose not to vax because of a medical reason? do you think if the shit hit the fan you would still be forced despite medical reasons?

Quote:
Anyway I would not go to Canada or Mexico since the US has an agreement "To increase communication, collaboration, and the exchange of information among the three countries in the areas of drugs, biologics, medical devices, food safety and nutrition to protect and promote human health." Links to the agreements can be found here:
the beginnings of the north american union?
AlbertaJes's Avatar AlbertaJes 05:56 AM 09-25-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post

Your rights could probably be taken away there too.
Without an overhaul of the Canadian constitution, vaccines can never be made mandatory here. Of course, that doesn't stop people from trying to tell you that they are...
zoeyzoo's Avatar zoeyzoo 04:21 PM 09-25-2008
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Originally Posted by AlbertaJes View Post
Without an overhaul of the Canadian constitution, vaccines can never be made mandatory here. Of course, that doesn't stop people from trying to tell you that they are...
Do you have anything similar to Marshall Law there that may block this right? Unfortunately the Supreme Court here sides with community rights over individual rights.
japonica's Avatar japonica 06:49 PM 09-25-2008
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Without an overhaul of the Canadian constitution, vaccines can never be made mandatory here. Of course, that doesn't stop people from trying to tell you that they are...
I think, just based on things are here now...i.e. no mandatory vaxes, no hassle from the community health nurse after you tell them you're not interested etc. that it is an easier place to live if you're not vaxing, but I don't think that means it is a utopia or anything...

Like one PP mentioned, there is always the push to bring us more inline with US and Mexico P&P.

Also, don't forget some of the recent cases here involving JWs/blood transfusions and parental rights. There have been at least two high profile cases in AB and BC where the province stepped in and removed custody of the children because they believed it was in the best interest of the children even though the parents were JWs and refusing treatment on religious grounds. What's to say when there's an outbreak, we don't lose custody at some point and have our kids forcibly vaxed because it's "for their own good"?
claddaghmom's Avatar claddaghmom 03:45 AM 09-26-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamelia View Post
how about if you chose not to vax because of a medical reason? do you think if the shit hit the fan you would still be forced despite medical reasons?



the beginnings of the north american union?

I would say definitely yes. I know several doctors who said basically "eh, you got that exemption as an infant" or "Maybe since your body dealt with it, you can handle more as an adult"
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