Raising a Vaccine Free Child question - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 14 Old 07-24-2008, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pandme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm in the middle of this book and I have a question.

Lydall states several times that vaccines do not work. She cites as examples the cases of measles, diphtheria, etc. in the fully vaccinated. Okay. Then when she describes the childhood disease vaxxes, she says they only give temporary immunity and boosters are needed, etc. But isn't she stating there that the vaccines, while limited in duration, do "work"? Which is it? It bothers me that she doesn't seem to have a consistent opinion. I'm not a huge fan of the "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" method.

Or am I misunderstanding this whole thing?
Pandme is offline  
#2 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 11:50 AM
 
bluets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 3,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
A respectable scientist in his time (back in the late 1800s), Alfred Wallace, wrote a book or two about how the smallpox vaccination did not work - that the epidemiological data suggested that the vaccine itself contributed to growth in cases, not a reduction. The places that were spared much death and misery were those places that reduced crowding and improved sanitation.

Hilary Butler cited a work by Major Greenwood, "Epidemics and Crowd Diseases", another old book. He states that it is more worthwhile to invest in nutrition and environment than it is to invest in vaccines. Moreover, being an epidemiologist and statistician, he claims that (a) there wasn't enough good data (when he was writing the book in the 1930s) for the various diseases; and (b) the statistics used were spurious and, in some cases, wrong. I'm still working my way through this book.

As for the Lydell book, I did read it a while ago. It would seem to me that if a vaccine were to work properly, one would need to only give it once. But we're seeing increasingly that is not the case. Would it not be better to instead focus on building up the immune system through more natural measures? Keep in mind also that the body typically encounters the pathogens through the nose and mouth - not the bloodstream (there may be a few exceptions, but this is generally the case for the childhood vpds). The immune system evolved to handle pathogens in a certain fashion (i.e., isolating to the gut and then GI waste disposal) - contact through blood is rare and doesn't take full advantage of the immune system; indeed, it circumvents the immune system (that's why the vaccine manufacturers have to include adjuvants).

Don't know if I answered your question directly...

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

bluets is offline  
#3 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pandme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
A respectable scientist in his time (back in the late 1800s), Alfred Wallace, wrote a book or two about how the smallpox vaccination did not work - that the epidemiological data suggested that the vaccine itself contributed to growth in cases, not a reduction. The places that were spared much death and misery were those places that reduced crowding and improved sanitation.

Hilary Butler cited a work by Major Greenwood, "Epidemics and Crowd Diseases", another old book. He states that it is more worthwhile to invest in nutrition and environment than it is to invest in vaccines. Moreover, being an epidemiologist and statistician, he claims that (a) there wasn't enough good data (when he was writing the book in the 1930s) for the various diseases; and (b) the statistics used were spurious and, in some cases, wrong. I'm still working my way through this book.

As for the Lydell book, I did read it a while ago. It would seem to me that if a vaccine were to work properly, one would need to only give it once. But we're seeing increasingly that is not the case. Would it not be better to instead focus on building up the immune system through more natural measures? Keep in mind also that the body typically encounters the pathogens through the nose and mouth - not the bloodstream (there may be a few exceptions, but this is generally the case for the childhood vpds). The immune system evolved to handle pathogens in a certain fashion (i.e., isolating to the gut and then GI waste disposal) - contact through blood is rare and doesn't take full advantage of the immune system; indeed, it circumvents the immune system (that's why the vaccine manufacturers have to include adjuvants).

Don't know if I answered your question directly...
You've just given me two other things to read! Anyway, I agree with Lydall's premise that vaxxing is not the answer, but the way she arrives at her opinions...I have a problem with. And she also completely dismisses sanitation as a reason for disease decline. She chalks it up to natural forces we can't understand. Somwtimes, she seems to be all over the place.

I guess I am a little confused and somewhat offput by her book. Not only that, but in her chapter on how to care for the measles, she scared the crap out of me. I'm sure it wasn't the exact intention but stressing how absolutely important it is not to make ONE misstep in caring for the measles (or disaster will occur!) doesn't exactly build confidence.
Pandme is offline  
#4 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Proverbs31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I found her book to be a bit inconsistent, too. She does have some really good citations but the one thing that just kept jumping put at me is that she states several times that having a clinical case of pertussis results in life-long immunity And you're right, she does make the blanket "Vaccines don't work" statement; on the contrary, many do work quite well, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good thing, y/k? Other than that, I do like the way she breaks down the course and management of the childhood illnesses, especially since she comes from the vantage point of having treated her children firsthand.
Proverbs31 is offline  
#5 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 04:21 PM
 
k9sarchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Never never land
Posts: 1,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

I also like her comfort level of not vaxing her kids while living in Africa. Her book also got me more into looking in homeopathy.

Laura~ wife to my stuntman, Stig, mama to Gavin Rutgar reading.gif(4) and now Wyatt Andreas (1) and 2 little angel1.gif.

k9sarchik is offline  
#6 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pandme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9sarchik View Post
:

I also like her comfort level of not vaxing her kids while living in Africa. Her book also got me more into looking in homeopathy.
She definitely does have strong points and I'm glad I'm reading her book, but I really think the Aviva Jill Romm book is just better written and presents the material is a better way. So that's the one I'm going to have my husband read.

Homeopathy can do incredible things.
Pandme is offline  
#7 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 08:41 PM
 
Proverbs31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I also enjoyed "How To Raise a Healthy Child Inspite of Your Doctor." The vaccine information and some of the medical protocol he talks about is a bit outdated (the book was published in 1984) but the sections on managing childhood illnesses and knowing when to see a doctor are so helpful.
Proverbs31 is offline  
#8 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pandme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proverbs31 View Post
I also enjoyed "How To Raise a Healthy Child Inspite of Your Doctor." The vaccine information and some of the medical protocol he talks about is a bit outdated (the book was published in 1984) but the sections on managing childhood illnesses and knowing when to see a doctor are so helpful.
Yes, I have that one too! A great book, my chiropractor gave it to me.
Pandme is offline  
#9 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 08:52 PM
 
thefragile7393's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well my opinions have been out already.....I really do enjoy her activism, how she lived with un-vaxed children in Africa. A lot of her research and statements were all over the place and I can't say I can really recommend it. Hilary Butler's book, Just a Little Prick, while somewhat hard to get through some of the tangents, is a very very very good informative book. I also 2nd Aviva's book because of the remedies for almost all VADs. And of course Dr. M's book as well.

fambedsingle2.gifnovaxnocirc.gifHappy to be a mommy and teacher to D fencing.gif, born 1-17-06 via waterbirth.jpg  and A  blahblah.gif, born 10-6-08 with a homebirth.jpghomeschool.gif

thefragile7393 is offline  
#10 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 10:02 PM
 
bluets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 3,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
to the OP - what is your goal in reading the book? learning how to raise a vaccine free child? or learning about the pros and cons of vaccines?

to other avid vax readers: has anyone read "The Sanctity of Human Blood" ?

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

bluets is offline  
#11 of 14 Old 07-25-2008, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pandme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
to the OP - what is your goal in reading the book? learning how to raise a vaccine free child? or learning about the pros and cons of vaccines?

to other avid vax readers: has anyone read "The Sanctity of Human Blood" ?

Well, probably both. I am in the process of reading everything I can about vaxxes and diseases. I have about 4 books on vax as well as the research from these threads. I'm trying to build a library of good sources.

I do like how she thoroughly discusses care of certain diseases and has personal experience. But a lot of her book is devoted to vax myths, which is great, except it's hard not to notice that her arguments are sloppy and bizarre in some areas. It casts a pall somewhat on the reliability of the stats, unfortunately. At least for me. I find the Romm book to be much more consistent and better written.
Pandme is offline  
#12 of 14 Old 07-26-2008, 01:00 AM
 
janellesmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Raising a Vaccine Free Child is a poorly written, self-published book. Anyone can write a book and self publish it, and it doesn't have to meet any standards of quality.
janellesmommy is offline  
#13 of 14 Old 07-26-2008, 02:10 AM
 
hrsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central CA Coast
Posts: 2,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi- my name is Kimberly, I haven't posted here before. Pandme- I have read The Sanctity of Human Blood. Fortunately, my chiropractor loaned it to me when I was pregnant. I liked the book.

Kimberly, in love with Hannah Rose! (04/08) EC grad!
hrsmom is offline  
#14 of 14 Old 08-02-2008, 01:13 PM
 
chiromamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Because the pathogens in vaccines are injected they bypass the body's primary form of defense...skin, mucus membranes, sneezing, coughing.
Yes, the body responds by making antibodies but the immunity is limited. Hence the need for boosters, diseases in vaccinated kids and the assertion (one which I share) that vaccines don't "work."
chiromamma is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off