Do you non-vax moms live in sparsely populated areas? Advice needed pls - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 34 Old 07-25-2008, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't live in a big city, but I live in a fairly heavily populated area with lots of immigrants. If you were me would you be any less comfortable with not vaccinating?

It seems like the doctors who are pro-vaccination but also in favor of a selective schedule are most concerned about Pertussis and the two forms of menangitis (which the vaccines Prevnar and Hib are supposed to target) during the first year of life. Should I be worried about these diseases because of the area that I live in?

If I were to not vaccinate my child, should i be changing my lifestyle in any way to protect her particularly during her first year of life when her immune system is at its weakest? (for example, keeping her away from crowded places)

At what age does a child's immune system become considerably stronger so that they are less vulnerable to disease, even less vulnerable to a bad case of the flu, which is pretty common?

Thanks so much for reading!!

Katherine
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#2 of 34 Old 07-25-2008, 01:03 PM
 
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I live in Houston.

My kids are unvaxed.

We don't do anything special.

Pertussis is around. Always has been. The vax doesn't work well.

Meningitis vaxes are a waste. Other bacteria fill the void. The vaxes don't reduce numbers of cases of meningitis, they just change what causes them.

You didn't get those vaccines- did you worry?

-Angela
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#3 of 34 Old 07-25-2008, 03:17 PM
 
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I live 15 min from Disney in Florida. I don’t vax.

I would say after 6 months the baby is strong enough to handle the more serious diseases. I was a little cautious up to that point but now, I don't worry at all.

We still do practice standard things like handwashing before meals, staying away from hacking coughs, etc.
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#4 of 34 Old 07-25-2008, 03:25 PM
 
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I live in a large city (over 1 million ppl) and we're about 30 mins from the mexico border. We don't vax and I'm totally comfortable with that. My ped even tried to pull the "dirty immigrant" card with me until I reminded her that a) it was racist of her and b) mexico has a higher vax rate than we do.

As for prevention, we breast feed and wash hands.

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#5 of 34 Old 07-25-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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I live in Denver. I second the breastfeeding and hand washing. My DH got a bad case of the flu last winter. I didn't catch it nor did my DS and we all slept in the same bed.

Laura~ wife to my stuntman, Stig, mama to Gavin Rutgar reading.gif(4) and now Wyatt Andreas (1) and 2 little angel1.gif.

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#6 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, ladies, for your feedback!

I totally sympathize with the fears about vaccinations, and I may forgo vaccinating in the end, but how are you moms so confident about your decisions? Don't you have any fears about the diseases that are out there? I'm not asking this question to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Even if you believe that money drives a lot of the vaccination recommendations, children do get sick and become seriously ill from diseases in this country. It may be somewhat rare if you're taking smart precautions, but it does happen. So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.

Thanks, again!!

Katherine
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#7 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 01:42 PM
 
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Thanks, ladies, for your feedback!

I totally sympathize with the fears about vaccinations, and I may forgo vaccinating in the end, but how are you moms so confident about your decisions? Don't you have any fears about the diseases that are out there? I'm not asking this question to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Even if you believe that money drives a lot of the vaccination recommendations, children do get sick and become seriously ill from diseases in this country. It may be somewhat rare if you're taking smart precautions, but it does happen. So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.

Thanks, again!!

Katherine
The diseases that are vaxed for really do not scare me as much as the vaccines themselves. Vaccine reactions are scary. My ds WILL get sick from some things at some points in his life. I have found confidence in doing my own research on the diseases. Becoming informed and soaking up as much info as possible has done a lot to help me feel that not vaxing my family is the right choice. Knowing proper management of vpd's is so important.

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#8 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 01:48 PM
 
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So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.
I read a book called The Vaccine Guide. Which made me feel better, but also just to educate myself more on what the chance really is of my son getting a disease or an adverse reaction to the vaccine. And to know if my son did get a disease, what would be the lasting affects. Because I really didn't even know very much about the diseases vaccines were created for. Basically, what I came to find out is that there is more of a risk for lasting adverse reactions to vaccines than there is to getting a disease serious enough to really do major damage. At least in this country. And that some of the vaccines really don't have very good efficacy.

wife to DH 6/25/05, mama to DS 5/26/08 & DS2 9/1/10
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#9 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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Thanks, ladies, for your feedback!

I totally sympathize with the fears about vaccinations, and I may forgo vaccinating in the end, but how are you moms so confident about your decisions? Don't you have any fears about the diseases that are out there? I'm not asking this question to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Even if you believe that money drives a lot of the vaccination recommendations, children do get sick and become seriously ill from diseases in this country. It may be somewhat rare if you're taking smart precautions, but it does happen. So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.

Thanks, again!!

Katherine
Research research research.

And no, I'm truly not scared.

When I did, I found that the diseases in circulation aren't that scary after all...

Which vax-available diseases are you afraid of?

-Angela
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#10 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for your feedback!

Angela, I'm mostly afraid of diseases that could strike my child during the first year of her life when her immune system is undeveloped. Dr. Bob Sears believes that the two meningitis diseases (Hib and Prevnar) and pertussis are the biggest concerns for young children, so I guess that I'd be most afraid of them.
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#11 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 03:49 PM
 
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here are some links that might provide more information for you;

Hib

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=629957

shows that Hib is replaced by other bacteria

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/2/807

Hib & Prevnar

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=89


re: pertussis.... breastfeed, keep sodium ascorbate in the house, and keep your baby away from close contact with coughing people. once they're over 6 months, it's not worth worrying about- and before then, the vaccine isn't providing much protection, anyways.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#12 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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We live in the inner city, in a neighborhood full of immigrants from Ethiopia and other parts of Africa, Korea and China, and India and Pakistan, and pretty much anywhere else you can think of. There are people of all income levels within a few blocks. I am sure many vax, and I also know many families around here who do not.

We go to the park, the farmer's market, the stores, the restaurants. We don't worry about a thing.

Did you worry about Hib and pneumococcal bacteria when you were a kid?

Kids get sick, vaccines or not. I am more confident in my child's immune system's ability to deal with vaccine-preventable diseases than I was in its ability to deal with a huge vaccine load as an infant. (We will selectively vax as she gets older, just a few things.)

You know the only thing we got that was truly scary? MRSA. Methicillin-resistant staph aureus. It can be fatal. You know where we got it? The hospital. (You know what caused it to be such a problem? Overuse of antibiotics and antibacterials.) Even so, my daughter at 4 months old beat it on her own without antibiotics. (I didn't want to give a broad-spectrum antibiotic until we had the culture back -- no sense knocking out all the good bacteria if it wasn't going to be effective on the bad -- turns out I was right, but by then the infection was clearing.)

That incident only bolstered my confidence in the body's ability to heal.
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#13 of 34 Old 07-26-2008, 06:45 PM
 
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My Chiropractor doesn't vax his little boy. My FP doesn't vax his children. My regular Kaiser FP said that he wouldn't give me a hard time for not vaxing because their was nothing to worry about regarding catching any VPD. My hairdresser's kids are 5th generation of a non-vax family.
And my holistic moms network has lots of non vax moms. So with all this support around it wasn't a hard choice.

Laura~ wife to my stuntman, Stig, mama to Gavin Rutgar reading.gif(4) and now Wyatt Andreas (1) and 2 little angel1.gif.

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#14 of 34 Old 07-27-2008, 12:23 AM
 
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We live in New York City and of course, our ped mentioned the dangers of being exposed to so many people from all over the world. The more I read, the more confident I get. And by reading I mean: for the last 14 months (when we decided to forgo or at least delay vaxes) I have been dedicating on average 1.5 hours every single day to educate myself and am still doing it. Whenever some fear mongering article makes me doubting our decision, I come to this board and get reassurance.

Yes, there are diseases around, but what vaxes do is trading acute diseases (like measles) in for chronic diseases (like diabetes) and I prefer to deal with the first ones should DS ever contract one.

I believe that a child that is healthy and strong in body and mind can fight a so-called VPD effectively. We therefore try to strengthen his physical and mental health with the right nutrition, enough sleep, a caring environment, he was breastfed, and the likes.

I do not know for sure when the immune system is fully developed, but I know that every little infection will strengthen it. DS has 1-day-fevers once in a while and I just feel that this is his immune system practicing and getting stronger.

We wash hands as soon as we come home and stay away from coughing people. But no further precautions.

The more you read the more confident you will get! This board has a wealth of information, just dive in.
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#15 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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I live in Houston.

My kids are unvaxed.

We don't do anything special.

Pertussis is around. Always has been. The vax doesn't work well.

Meningitis vaxes are a waste. Other bacteria fill the void. The vaxes don't reduce numbers of cases of meningitis, they just change what causes them.

You didn't get those vaccines- did you worry?

-Angela
That.

We live in the inner city. We don't do anything special and go whereever we feel like going.

Mama to DS1 (2/08) and DS2 (9/10).
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#16 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 05:52 PM
 
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I've lived in several states traveled back and forth cross country and now live in a place people like to call the gateway to Asia as a reason to vax.My kids still aren't vaxed.Yes they have gotten sick we just had some kinda nasty bug come through the house and at Easter it was chicken pox and fifth's disease.it goes against a lot of what we are taught in our culture to keep our children protected from everything bad but i do not think every illness is bad.Sometimes we do have to go through a bad stage to gain.
We breast feed, hand wash and rest and stay home rather than rushing from place to place as much as possible.

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#17 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 06:15 PM
 
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I've lived in several states traveled back and forth cross country and now live in a place people like to call the gateway to Asia as a reason to vax.My kids still aren't vaxed.Yes they have gotten sick we just had some kinda nasty bug come through the house and at Easter it was chicken pox and fifth's disease.it goes against a lot of what we are taught in our culture to keep our children protected from everything bad but i do not think every illness is bad.Sometimes we do have to go through a bad stage to gain.
We breast feed, hand wash and rest and stay home rather than rushing from place to place as much as possible.

We could be moving there, dh is being considered for a job out there, and I heard someone say that whole "gateway to Asia" thing regarding vaxes and I just couldn't figure it out. I admit I don't know a whole lot about asian cultures/history but aren't there so many they are over populated? Also aren't they some of the longest lasting cultures in the world? Obviously they aren't dying off from all these diseases. Are people just doing the "dirty foreigner" thing when they make that comment? :

Rachel, mom to Jake (5/04) and Alexia (7/07) a surprise UC thanks to hypnobabies!
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#18 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 06:36 PM
 
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I live in a city and don't vax. We also had chickenpox and measles outbreaks in the last year. You have to weigh the risk of the vax to the disease.

IMO Pertussis is can be threatening during the first 6 months and is likely to lead to hospitalization. The vax doesn't give immunity until 6 months (when you complete the series). I don't see any point to this vax since they don't get much benefit from it until the point it is less threatening.

The Prevnar and HIB vaxes are also useless IMO because there are so many bacteria and viruses that cause menangitis. The ones in the vax have been replaced by other ones. It doesn't not mean they won't get it and it is rare.
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#19 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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I live in the 2nd largest city in the state and get the "dirty immigrant" BS thrown out all the time. As if they don't have vax programs in other countries.....it's just a way of continuing xenophobia. We do basic things to prevent illness, although ds's diet should be better, if I could somehow get him to eat fruits and veggies

I worry about none of them. Most are mild, if properly treated. Some there is almost 0 chance of a child getting (tetanus, Hep B, diptheria). Looking up the history of polio and that there are several types of polio, with the vax not protecting against all types (or infection) was eye-opening. With Pertussis, the vax dosn't prevent transmission or infection so it's always going to be around, vax or no vax. All docs have a pet vax they believe everyone should have, based on whatever worst-case scenario they've seen or heard about or what they've been told from the manufacturer.

Honestly, we've been fed fear and propaganda our whole lives, whereas my mom can remember when Measles and Mumps were like CP for my generation. Until there was a vax. Most people nowadays don't remember those days, they just repeat what they hear from their doctors. Looking at the CDC's MMRWR is a real eye opener as well, knocks down a lot of what the medical profession spouts out.

Looking up each disease and it's treatment on mayoclinic.com was an eye opener....the prevention and treatments were generally simple, with also notations on what to look for if complications are starting to set in. Honestly, I got sick of being lied to and misled....so I started looking for answers myself once I realized that doctors know next to nothing about breastfeeding, nutrition, parenting, or even vaxes usually.

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#20 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 07:09 PM
 
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Thanks, ladies, for your feedback!

I totally sympathize with the fears about vaccinations, and I may forgo vaccinating in the end, but how are you moms so confident about your decisions? Don't you have any fears about the diseases that are out there? I'm not asking this question to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Even if you believe that money drives a lot of the vaccination recommendations, children do get sick and become seriously ill from diseases in this country. It may be somewhat rare if you're taking smart precautions, but it does happen. So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.

Thanks, again!!

Katherine
I worked in healthcare for several years. That's where I stopped being afraid. Honestly, I saw everything, and everyone I worked with and dh worked with (pharma company) thought vaxes were jokes.

Life is dangerous. But as my work as an EMT showed me, you're taking a million more risks having your kids in a car, going swimming, or going for a walk than the danger of a disease would present.

I live in a town of ~250,000 and moving back to a town of 9,000.

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#21 of 34 Old 07-28-2008, 07:32 PM
 
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Thanks, ladies, for your feedback!

I totally sympathize with the fears about vaccinations, and I may forgo vaccinating in the end, but how are you moms so confident about your decisions? Don't you have any fears about the diseases that are out there? I'm not asking this question to be antagonistic. I really want to know. Even if you believe that money drives a lot of the vaccination recommendations, children do get sick and become seriously ill from diseases in this country. It may be somewhat rare if you're taking smart precautions, but it does happen. So I'm just wondering where you get your confidence.

Thanks, again!!

Katherine
Yes, kids get sick from diseases. But they also get sick or die from reactions to the vaccines. I'll take my chances with mother nature.

Healthy kids do not die. Their bodies fight off the diseases- even if it's a vaccine preventable disease. It's my belief that vaccines mess your immune system and other things up, and your body is less prepared to fight these illnesses. Plus, even if I allowed my kids to be injected, there's no promise they would never get the disease the vax is supposed to protect them from.

When I was pregnant with my son, I was so, so scared not to vaccinate. Terrified! But the more research I did the clearer it became to me that I just couldn't forgive myself if, knowing what I know, I allowed him to be vaccinated and something happened. I look at it like I can always change my mind and have him vaccinated (not that I will!) but I can never UNvaccinate him once that shot is injected.

ETA: I live in a very large city, and have done a large amount of traveling with my son, and am not at all worried.

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#22 of 34 Old 07-29-2008, 01:23 AM
 
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I forgot to mention that we also travel a lot to Europe and back. Before our first flight, I was scared about meningitis, don't ask me why. It just seemed the most dangerous disease to me at that point. Our family chiropractor then told me that a person having meningitis would just feel way too sick to travel at all. Since then I am not worried anymore about any disease.
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#23 of 34 Old 07-29-2008, 09:13 PM
 
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I live in a very rural area, when DD2 was born we were living in a town of 1,200. She got pertussis as a newborn, DH gave it to her, she was literally exposed at birth. Even if we were a vaxing family, it wouldn't of helped us with that illness. She survived obviously and less then a year later was directly exposed to HIB in that same town. The little boy was life flighted away 1-2 days later, DD2 did not get it. I think it was the only illness she has ever been exposed to that she didn't get!


You can't prevent everything, there will always be something that you could be afraid about. I can't say that I don't worry a little bit about pertussis and another newborn when we have another baby. That was the worst experience of my life, and I truly don't care to repeat it, but it also can't consume my life.

There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.
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#24 of 34 Old 07-29-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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Healthy kids do not die.
Yes, some healthy kids do and will die from diseases, even VPDs. Does that mean you should vax? No of course not. But I think running on the assumption that your child, or any child, could not die of a disease just because they are healthy is faulty.

Rachel, mom to Jake (5/04) and Alexia (7/07) a surprise UC thanks to hypnobabies!
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#25 of 34 Old 07-29-2008, 11:55 PM
 
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this is enough info for me...26 YEARS of research:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...KhrvXpDA&hl=en

also I did about 3-4 hrs research daily for about a year

::::: ::
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#26 of 34 Old 07-30-2008, 12:22 AM
 
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live in a huge city never, never stayed home, never avoided where lots of people where. dd vaxed up to 2y shots, ds not vaxed... but vaxed or not i always walk away from people who are coughing and are looking sick. i dont look at as "have they been vaxed" but more "i dont want to get sick" i really think that more things get spread around that vaxes dont stop, so how i act with or without a baby it just not wanting to be sick. i breastfeed, wash hands and just the normal stuff everyone should do day to day.
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#27 of 34 Old 07-30-2008, 02:10 AM
 
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I live in the East San Francisco Bay Area. Maybe I'm strange, but, I looked at each disease, saw that most of them really aren't issues overall and then looked at each vaccine and saw the ingredients in them, and said no. I think I was afraid before I knew about the diseases, but I never let fear force me into a decision.
We did do Hib, on a delayed schedule. I'm not sure we'll do that next time. We chose to mostly because my Dad had bacterial meningitis when I was a kid, and it really messed him up (to use a technical term). But Hib doesn't do anything for all the other strains of meningitis, and it's rare, so...
Learn about the diseases. Find out if there are issues around where you live. Then look at the vaccines, their side effects, reactions, and ingredients.

Good luck!

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and Cassandra, b. October 2011

 

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#28 of 34 Old 07-30-2008, 02:15 AM
 
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We did do Hib, on a delayed schedule. I'm not sure we'll do that next time. We chose to mostly because my Dad had bacterial meningitis when I was a kid, and it really messed him up (to use a technical term). But Hib doesn't do anything for all the other strains of meningitis, and it's rare, so...
And chances are astronomically high that your dad had meningitis caused by a bacteria OTHER than Hib....

-Angela
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#29 of 34 Old 07-30-2008, 02:19 AM
 
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I don't live in a big city, but I live in a fairly heavily populated area with lots of immigrants. If you were me would you be any less comfortable with not vaccinating?

It seems like the doctors who are pro-vaccination but also in favor of a selective schedule are most concerned about Pertussis and the two forms of menangitis (which the vaccines Prevnar and Hib are supposed to target) during the first year of life. Should I be worried about these diseases because of the area that I live in?

If I were to not vaccinate my child, should i be changing my lifestyle in any way to protect her particularly during her first year of life when her immune system is at its weakest? (for example, keeping her away from crowded places)

At what age does a child's immune system become considerably stronger so that they are less vulnerable to disease, even less vulnerable to a bad case of the flu, which is pretty common?

Thanks so much for reading!!

Katherine
my decision not to vax has nothing to do with the size of the city i live in, or the population here. i don't think vaxes work well enough, with few enough risks, to warrant being used in a situation where proper nutrition and medical care are readily available. my comfort level is with not vaxing and would be, i think, no matter whether i lived in a rural area, small city (which i do), or very urban area.

dissertating wife of Boo, mama of one "mookie" lovin' 2 year old girl! intactlact:: CTA until 7/10 FF 1501dc
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#30 of 34 Old 07-31-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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Our family chiropractor then told me that a person having meningitis would just feel way too sick to travel at all.
Well that's nice, but meningitis has been spread on airplanes. There were 21 reports of suspected travel associated meningitis cases that occurred between 1991 and 2001 (this is from the CDC).
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