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#1 of 33 Old 07-28-2008, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, my family and I just moved to San Diego and my husband is stationed at Miramar. I need to get my son enrolled in the CDC for occasional drop in child care, and hopefully the occasional date with my husband. I asked someone about religious exemptions and was told since it's a government run facility they aren't allowed. I believe that's a load of bull though. I would assume since it's a government run facility they have to let me use an exemption.

Has anyone else been able to enroll their child in a military Child Development Center? What forms did you need and who did you have to go through?

My husband is leave again for Iraq and I'm pregnant again and know no one, so I must have child care for my dr's appointments and such.

And advice is much appreciated!

Thanks!

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#2 of 33 Old 07-28-2008, 09:38 AM
 
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I used to be in the USAF but I never had to deal with the childcare issue. The Army is more difficult to deal with than the others and overseas is more difficult than CONUS. If all else fails contact your congressmen (and possibly hint to those refusing your exemption that you will do so "You know I heard congressman X has been very helpful is assisting military dependents; I think I'll ask his advice); I'd carry their contact numbers in your purse along with the following regs (look them up and print out the actual pages) and play the "this is how they treat his pregnant wife and children card!?".

Everyone you have to talk to will tell you a different requirement. Always demand (nicely) that they put their request in writing, reference the regulation, and sign their name to it.

Remember that you are a civilian, your children are civilians, and that they are not disease infested swamp things ). Also, as a civilian you can be Wiccan or Catholic and still be "opposed to the practice of immunization". The Chaplain can govern the exemptions of service members but not yourself. If you have a sympathetic person in your dh's chain of command you may want to take them to any meetings; in any case you will want a witness and to write down what they have told you immediately afterwards.


Quote:
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Definitely NOT invisible :-)

They have to accept unvaxed kids if you claim a religious opposition. It's in the military instruction about vaccinations, although I've not found any specific CDC instruction, kwim? It says, Quote:
School teachers, day care center workers, and children attending DoD-sponsored schools and day care centers or similar facilities on military installations.....Children under the age of 7 years receive pertussis vaccine in the ACIP recommended dosages unless there is documentation of previous vaccination, religious waiver, or medical contraindication.
They ALWAYS try to claim they don't accept exemptions, but it's right there in the friggin instruction that kids with a religious waiver don't need their shots. The sentence is specifically discussing DTaP for some reason, but it would apply to all of them. You don't get a religious waiver for DTaP only! <img class="inlineimg" title="Dizzy" alt="" border="0"> I don't know what branch you're in, but just look up AFJI 48-110. The instruction's the same for every branch. The title is Immunizations and Chemoprophylaxis.

______________
____

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeniacleBrat View Post
MotherWillow found this for me.... DODEA Administrators Manual. On page 80 (section 18.2) covers vaccine exemptions.

"18.2.1.3 Religious — A student’s parent/sponsor may claim exemption from the DoDEA immunization requirements for religious reasons. If the parent maintains the need to continue the religious exemption during a documented outbreak of a contagious disease, the student will be excluded from school for his/her protection and the safety of the other students until the contagious period is over. Religious exemptions require a written statement from the parent/sponsor stating that he/she objects to the vaccination based upon personal beliefs. "
Quote:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/member.php?u=51507

AFI 34-276 is the AFI that governs Family Child Care.

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/share.../AFI34-276.pdf

"A5.40.3. The provider maintains medical information for each child, including permission to treat emergencies signed by the parent(s), child’s allergies, chronic illness and other known health prob-lems, and immunizations (or written documentation of parents’ objections for religious reasons). This information is recorded on the AF Form 1181, Youth Flight Patron Registration Form."

It's on page 53 of the publication.
It specifically states, "(4) Department of Defense schoolteachers, daycare center workers, and children attending DOD–sponsored schools
and daycare centers or similar facilities on military installations.
"

Paragraph 3-2.b.(4) at the bottom of page 10 of this document:
http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf

Quote:
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfi.../afi34-248.pdf

AFI34-248 1 OCTOBER 1999 43
Chapter 11
HEALTH
11.1. Health Protection. Protect the health of staff, children, and parents while they are in the program.
Use Caring for Our Children: Health and Safety Guidelines for Out-of-Home Care as general guidance on
health issues not covered by this instruction.
11.2. Access. Limit the access of well children to children or adults with contagious illnesses.
11.2.1. Do not provide care to children without immunizations required by Air Force policy unless it
is an emergency.
Quote:
http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf

Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F
2–6. Exemptions
There are 2 types of exemptions from immunization: medical and administrative. Granting medical exemptions is a
medical function that can only be validated by a health care professional. Granting administrative exemptions is a
non–medical function, usually controlled by the individual’s unit commander....

(3) Religious.
(a) For Service personnel, immunization exemptions for religious reasons may be granted according to Service–
specific policies to accommodate doctrinal religious beliefs. This is a command decision made with medical and
chaplain advice.
1. Requests for religious exemption must include name, rank, social security number (SSN), occupational specialty
code or branch, and a description of the religious tenet or belief contrary to immunization. Army: (see AR 600–20,
para 5–6). Air Force: Permanent exemptions for religious reasons will not be granted. The major command (MAJCOM)
commander is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions. Coast
Guard: CG–122 is the designated approval and revocation authority for temporary immunization exemptions.
2. A military physician must counsel the applicant. The physician should ensure that the Service personnel is
making an informed decision and should address, at a minimum, specific information about the diseases concerned;
specific vaccine information including product constituents, benefits, and risks; and potential risks of infection incurred
by unimmunized individuals.
3. The commander must counsel the individual and recommend approval or denial of the exemption request, by
endorsement. The commander must counsel that noncompliance with immunization requirements may adversely impact
deployability, assignment, or international travel, and that the exemption may be revoked under imminent risk
conditions. The commander, in making his or her recommendation, should consider the potential impact on the
individual, the unit, and the mission.
4. Forward exemption requests through command channels to the respective Service approval authority for decision.
Individuals with active requests for religious exemption are temporarily deferred from immunizations pending outcome
of their request. For USCG, forward through appropriate chain to G–WPM, via CG–1121.
(b) Civilian employees submit religious–exemption requests to their supervisors. Such requests will be processed in
accordance with 29 CFR 1605 and component and local policies.
c. Bargaining units. Civilian personnel affected by this document who are members of bargaining units will be
considered for exemption consistent with applicable personnel management policies.
d. Other categories. Administrative or medical personnel will appropriately annotate electronic ITS with exemption
codes denoting separation, permanent change of station, emergency leave, missing or prisoner of war, deceased, and
other appropriate categories.
Quote:
http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/1005_1.pdf

If you go to page 80 section 18.2 it clearly states and outlines that military dependents have both medical and religious exemptions available to them. This document was written in Oct. of 2007 and is a DoDEA document so I don't know how they could deny the existance of exemptions.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#3 of 33 Old 07-28-2008, 10:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by grniys View Post
Hi, my family and I just moved to San Diego and my husband is stationed at Miramar. I need to get my son enrolled in the CDC for occasional drop in child care, and hopefully the occasional date with my husband. I asked someone about religious exemptions and was told since it's a government run facility they aren't allowed. I believe that's a load of bull though. I would assume since it's a government run facility they have to let me use an exemption.

Has anyone else been able to enroll their child in a military Child Development Center? What forms did you need and who did you have to go through?

My husband is leave again for Iraq and I'm pregnant again and know no one, so I must have child care for my dr's appointments and such.

And advice is much appreciated!

Thanks!
I'm moving back to the SD area (closer to Camp Pendleton) in a few weeks- you can always drop them off with me! I don't need a waiver.
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#4 of 33 Old 07-28-2008, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, thanks for all the info. My head is spinning from all the links. Why oh why do they have to make things so complicated? I don't have access to a printer right now, so I can't print them out but I will when I'm able to. I'm also thinking about calling militaryonesource for their help and see if they can help smooth the road a bit.

Thanks again.

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#5 of 33 Old 07-29-2008, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grniys View Post
Wow, thanks for all the info. My head is spinning from all the links. Why oh why do they have to make things so complicated? I don't have access to a printer right now, so I can't print them out but I will when I'm able to. I'm also thinking about calling militaryonesource for their help and see if they can help smooth the road a bit.

Thanks again.
Let us know what happens:

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#6 of 33 Old 08-02-2008, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Emmeline, I'll be sure to keep you all updated. I talked to the woman in charge of registration and she said she needs to research it and get the ok of some others and find out what kinds of paperwork will be required from me because she's never handled this before. She said she goes on leave this week, so it'll be another week or so before I hear back. So right now I'm kind of waiting.

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#7 of 33 Old 08-04-2008, 12:39 PM
 
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It is absolutely not true that your child has to be vaxed to be in a military care facility. Go to the military clinic (or hospital where your child is seen) and get a religious waiver. They have them and the care providers should know about them.

I just had that conversation with our CDC in Key West and they had no issues.
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#8 of 33 Old 08-05-2008, 12:40 PM
 
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we never had an issues where we were.. i just signed that it was against my personal values..

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all , Loving their daddy, my hubby, our soldier
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#9 of 33 Old 08-06-2008, 11:00 PM
 
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Go to the military clinic (or hospital where your child is seen) and get a religious waiver. They have them and the care providers should know about them.
Is this for all the services?
And for all the regions?

My Army CDC has their own SOP that is requiring a letter from clergy.
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#10 of 33 Old 08-07-2008, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhorzepa View Post
Is this for all the services?
And for all the regions?

My Army CDC has their own SOP that is requiring a letter from clergy.

Demand (nicely) the regulation that gives him that authority, because this regulation Army Regulation 40–562
BUMEDINST 6230.15A
AFJI 48–110
CG COMDTINST M6230.4F

http://www.vaccines.mil/documents/969r40_562.pdf
pg. 10, section 3.2, para 4 says:

Quote:
In addition, all other age appropriate ACIP–recommended vaccines for children are required unless there is documentation
of previous immunization, religious exemption, or medical contraindication.
and:

Quote:
http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/1005_1.pdf

If you go to page 70 section 18.2 it clearly states and outlines that military dependents have both medical and religious exemptions available to them.

18.2.1.3 Religious — A student’s parent/sponsor may claim exemption from the DoDEA immunization requirements for religious reasons. If the parent maintains the need to continue the religious exemption during a documented outbreak of a contagious disease, the student will be excluded from school for his/her protection and the safety of the other students until the contagious period is over. Religious exemptions require a written statement from the parent/sponsor stating that he/she objects to the vaccination based upon personal beliefs.

This document was written in Oct. of 2007 and is a DoDEA document so I don't know how they could deny the existance of exemptions.
There is no requirement for a "letter signed by the clergy" and they are discriminating against you based on your religious beliefs that are not on a government approved list of religions that are doctrinally opposed to vaccination.

If all else fails, contact your congressman.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#11 of 33 Old 08-10-2008, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/1005_1.pdf

If you go to page 70 section 18.2 it clearly states and outlines that military dependents have both medical and religious exemptions available to them.

18.2.1.3 Religious — A student’s parent/sponsor may claim exemption from the DoDEA immunization requirements for religious reasons. If the parent maintains the need to continue the religious exemption during a documented outbreak of a contagious disease, the student will be excluded from school for his/her protection and the safety of the other students until the contagious period is over. Religious exemptions require a written statement from the parent/sponsor stating that he/she objects to the vaccination based upon personal beliefs.

This document was written in Oct. of 2007 and is a DoDEA document so I don't know how they could deny the existance of exemptions.
Technically the CDC is not part of DODEA. *sigh*

and
Quote:
Demand (nicely) the regulation that gives him that authority,
I did...and she must have just asked her supervisor (because she did when I was in person) and sent back that the nurse required it for double verification. LOL Double verification!
Somehow a decision was made somewhere to ask for more than what the DOD regs ask for.
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#12 of 33 Old 08-10-2008, 06:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nhorzepa View Post
Technically the CDC is not part of DODEA. *sigh*

and
I did...and she must have just asked her supervisor (because she did when I was in person) and sent back that the nurse required it for double verification. LOL Double verification!
Somehow a decision was made somewhere to ask for more than what the DOD regs ask for.
I'd demand (nicely) and in writing (get a receipt that you submitted this) to put her request in writing, with her name/rank/signature on it, explaining why what you have provided in compliance with X,Y,Z reg is not adequate. Don't take any instructions verbally that differ from the regs; you should know exactly where the "somewhere" is.

I'd be getting ready to say "I've heard that Congressman X is very helpful to military dependents; I'll think I'll call him and speak to him about how military dependents are being treated." Though if you do go to your congressman alert the member's supervisor, because those complaints go all the way to the top (IG) and come back down.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#13 of 33 Old 08-12-2008, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been without internet access for a while, so haven't been able to check this thread. Thanks for all the new info. She still hasn't called me back, but she supposedly got off her leave today, so I'll give her until Weds. I'll be on base Weds and will have my exemption form in my hand when I go to the CDC.

nhorzepa, good luck.

SarahW, my son doesn't have a doctor here yet, sadly. I think I'll just find a form online and print it off. Hopefully it will be good enough. If not, militaryonesource will be getting a call.

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#14 of 33 Old 08-20-2008, 09:58 PM
 
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She still hasn't called me back, but she supposedly got off her leave today, so I'll give her until Weds. I'll be on base Weds and will have my exemption form in my hand when I go to the CDC.
Did she call back?
Or did you anything happen today?
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#15 of 33 Old 08-21-2008, 11:19 AM
 
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"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#16 of 33 Old 08-21-2008, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She did call me back and asked me to go in and give her my religious exemption form, which I did. Then she said that the nurse was going to have to find the specific statute or something and look it up and give the ok. That was last Weds. I haven't heard back yet. I'm giving her until next Monday, then I'll call and ask if it's been approved yet.

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#17 of 33 Old 08-22-2008, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by grniys View Post
She did call me back and asked me to go in and give her my religious exemption form, which I did. Then she said that the nurse was going to have to find the specific statute or something and look it up and give the ok. That was last Weds. I haven't heard back yet. I'm giving her until next Monday, then I'll call and ask if it's been approved yet.
Hope she calls you back today!
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#18 of 33 Old 08-27-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I got a call back today and she left me a voicemail (I didn't hear the phone ring). I was told that they are switching over from Navy regulations to Army regulations, and Army regulations forbid the use of exemptions. She told me that there is a meeting Sept 4th about it, and they'll have their final answer for me then.

I'm just stumped. I mean, at this point, I truly believe I'm getting the run around. What's more, the child care center is on a Marine Corp base! Plus, I've never heard of exemptions not being allowed for the Army. I would assume all branches fall under the same rules. I have no doubt I'll get a call next week telling me "Sorry, but due to regulations your child can't be registered".

So, do I call Military One Source now and get them involved, or do I wait?

If they do say it's against regulations, I am going to ask for the specific regulation and book it's in, look it up myself and shove it in their faces when I find something about exemptions, because there's no doubt in my mind that they make exceptions for exemptions.

What do I do now? Any advice? I would just go elsewhere, but I don't need daily child care. I just need a sitter now and then for prenatal appointments, and once my husband is gone so I can have an hour or two of me time every month or so. They also have "parents night out" where I can reserve a night on the weekend and go out for a few hours that night. It's not a daily thing or anything, and I don't think other places do that.

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#19 of 33 Old 08-27-2008, 05:09 PM
 
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I was told that they are switching over from Navy regulations to Army regulations, and Army regulations forbid the use of exemptions.
...
If they do say it's against regulations, I am going to ask for the specific regulation and book it's in, look it up myself and shove it in their faces when I find something about exemptions, because there's no doubt in my mind that they make exceptions for exemptions.
Oh man oh man! You have every right to challenge them!

The Army regs DO allow exemptions. Right in their Reg for Child Developement Services AR 608.10 - see page 60.

The MC has a seperate reg. that does address exemptions. see page 29 of MC Order P1710.30E.

Here is a great site where I got the regs from (plus lots of MDC ppl here!). http://www.militaryhomefront.dod.mil...tent_id=171950

I was given the run around today to...just not so bad! They are "holding fast" to their local SOP which asks for documentation from clergy. So to legitimize my own religious beliefs, I'm now ordain (how silly is that). We'll see how it goes.
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#20 of 33 Old 08-28-2008, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much! Man, I have a feeling I'm going to be there shoving those regulations down their throats come next week. Grrr. I'm sure by that time I'll be calmer, but right now I'm SO angry. Grrr.

That's so funny that you had to become ordained.

I wish you luck!

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#21 of 33 Old 08-28-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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i worked at a cdc while we were in germany, and during one of the classes we had to take, meds or something, they mentioned vax waivers, but pretty much said they like to make it super hard to get. i know we ad at least one kid come in for hourly who wasnt vaxed.


good luck

*~*Ashley*~* newly single mama to Tristan 10/01/2007
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#22 of 33 Old 08-28-2008, 01:17 PM
 
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i worked at a cdc while we were in germany, and during one of the classes we had to take, meds or something, they mentioned vax waivers, but pretty much said they like to make it super hard to get.
Yesterday the enrollment lady mentioned that the CDC director was just in training (this week?) with other MWRs and religious exemptions were mentioned. She said they stressed exemptions needed to be on church letterhead. ??? Funny training if the Army regs don't specify the need for church letterhead.
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#23 of 33 Old 08-28-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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You're ordained now? I might consider doing the same. LOL
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#24 of 33 Old 08-28-2008, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You're ordained now? I might consider doing the same. LOL
Oooh... or we could all just join her "church" and have her send out letters stating she won't allow us to vaccinate and still be members. LOL!

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Oooh... or we could all just join her "church" and have her send out letters stating she won't allow us to vaccinate and still be members. LOL!
LOL
I've even got official church letterhead for those letters.
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#26 of 33 Old 09-11-2008, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wanted to give another update. I recieved a voicemail from the registration woman saying there was still some confusion and no one can figure out if they exemptions are allowed or not. I'll be calling her back and telling her not to bother, but I will also give the specific regulations for Army, Navy and Marine Corp CDC's so that they will know they ARE allowed. But if this is the way the place is ran, I don't want my son going there. I'll just find a sitter. I'm interviewing someone soon to watch my son when I have appointments, and I don't think she'll ask about vaxes.

So, I thank each one of you who so helpfully supplied links and support and info and knowledge. To me, it's just not worth it right now to fight with them to get my son to attend somewhere that I'm not so sure I want him attending.

Thank you all.

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#27 of 33 Old 09-11-2008, 10:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by grniys View Post
But if this is the way the place is ran, I don't want my son going there. I'll just find a sitter. I'm interviewing someone soon to watch my son when I have appointments, and I don't think she'll ask about vaxes.

So, I thank each one of you who so helpfully supplied links and support and info and knowledge. To me, it's just not worth it right now to fight with them to get my son to attend somewhere that I'm not so sure I want him attending.

Thank you all.
Well you could fight until they give in, then say you don't want him under the care of people who would treat you this way.

I'd still be tempted to write a letter to my congressman about how they trample the rights of dependents and discriminate against those trying to legitimately use these services .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#28 of 33 Old 09-11-2008, 01:31 PM
 
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What a mess. I feel so bad for the all stress you were put through.
How on earth are they confused?
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#29 of 33 Old 10-09-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Just wanted to update that the CDC accepted my religious exemption request!
It took a month, so I was real worried they were going to reject it and I was going to have to make a stink.
And I'm even more excited because I just found out that my new baby wouldn't have been able to fit into our present daycare, so this is working out well. woohoo!

The only caveat is that I live in NJ and the flu vaccination is required for daycare...and they mentioned that if there is an outbreak my son needs to leave. (which they will have to define and prove outbreak at the time of the flu because they had a very shaky definition when I questioned it)
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#30 of 33 Old 10-09-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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Made an ooops sorry...
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