Do you tell your older DC, that they are not vaxed, and *why* they aren't? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, this summer, as the tv has been on a little more, DD has seen the commercials for Gardisil. I have sat beside her, and pointed out the lies and deception in the ads. I have explained to her why I will not allow her to get that vax.

DD has overheard conversations, either with docs, chiros, my sister....that I am positive, that her health problems began after she was bombarded with vaxes at the age of 1yo, and because of that, I no longer vax my DC.

In the past, she has questioned me, seeming angry that I allowed her to be vaxed all those yrs ago.

Now! She is angry because she may not get into the school (private) that she wants to go to-because they don't take religious exempts(though I will fight it!)..she has asked me,"Mom, my immune system is better now, can't we just try a vax if they won't let us in?" She also asked me what would happen to her if she got sick from a disease that a vax could prevent.

How much info is too much? She is aware that some DC die from vaxes, and that others get very,very sick in many different ways.DH says I never should have let her hear anything about the issue. Part of me feels that she deserves to know the evil truths.

I would love to hear how other mommas have handled this, or if it just hasn't come up.
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#2 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 04:34 PM
 
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How old is she? My older children know, ages 13, 9 and 8. The other kids are of ages when they don't really give a rip, but we do discuss it around them because it is how dh and I have chosen to live our lives and they have full choice in whether they are vaxed or not. The older ones have all chosen to remain unvaxed. Of course, we've never come up against a situation where they've been limited by their vax status. We also have a large community of people around us who are not vaxed, family and friends, so they don't really feel alone in their choices.

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#3 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 04:42 PM
 
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I honestly hadn't thought about it. It hasn't come up at all for us yet, DS is 6yo and I would probably only share very limited info with him, something like, "Mommy and Daddy have done a lot of studying and we believe that you don't need them. That there are some things in them that could hurt you instead of help you." I guess I should think about it more.
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#4 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, she is almost 12yo.
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#5 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 04:49 PM
 
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My eldest (18) is vaxed, partially by todays standards, and hasn't received any boosters since MMR at five, she knows about vaccinations and will refuse any vaccines now as an adult, she has already turned down Gardasil . My younger two are completely unvaxed and understand our reasons why and are perfectly fine with it. They both go to alternative private schools and non-vaxing while not in the majority -- I would say selective/delayed vax would be what most of the children are -- is far from unheard of. The directed of DD's school is totally anti-vax.

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#6 of 19 Old 08-17-2008, 06:25 PM
 
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When I was six years old, I was familiar with the arguments since I went to school unvaxed and there were classmates with leg braces from their attack of polio. My parents told me that some of the vaccines could cause polio, and in those days, the new vaccinations did. It came up for me early because we were lined up like animals outside the nurses' office in school to get our vaccinations. I got to sit it out each time.

Dittos and kudos to those whose unvaccinated children are happy about that decision. You are absolutely correct. Children are happy about it. And very grateful.

I went through life reading signs, ads, warnings, notices about vaccinating your child and I always had the discussion quietly going through my mind. Being a baby boomer and not being vaccinated is a challenge. Watching films of iron lungs and leg braces along side seeing children lined up for the one shot fits all prophyllatic is surreal. Sitting in health class and learning that vaccinations are the wonder drug and miracle health development of the twentieth century is a strange feeling when one is not vaccinated.

But it truly helped my critical thinking skills. Reading stories about anne gottsdanker of the Cutter Incident and other polio victims made me think. (Gene Simmons?)

Thinking can be a dangerous activity...

Editting to say that it took me years to put all of the pieces together. My Aunt had a nasty vax reaction in the 1920s. Raggedy Ann is a symbol of the antivax movement because Marcella Gruelle died of a vax reaction that my own Aunt had about the same time. I never understood the early polio vax movement well. One thing that always bothered me is that FDR seemed quite old at 39 to acquire polio; now, some experts think he had some other kind of paralysis, not polio, even though the original March of Dimes was in his memory and honor. That is why he is on the dime now. Mercury, the god, was on the dime before he was.

So there are lots of lies being told to us. Step outside of that box and think. It is refreshing.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#7 of 19 Old 08-18-2008, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Applejuice,

I am having a hard time understanding your post. When you give the clapping smile, it feel to me that because my DD isn't completly at peace with our decisions, I've done something wrong. I came here to ask how/if/what others are telling their DC.
Since she was 10yo, my DD has suffered from anxiety and panic disorders-a lot due to my own many illnesses. It has felt to me, that I've had to walk on eggshells, when explaining to her about vaxes-not wanting to scare her, yet wanting to educate/inform her and explain the whys of our parenting choices. Geez. She's a preteen, trying to feel like she fits in. We are NOT surrounded by non-vaxers. Of all of her friends, she is the only one.
The kind of confidence that the pps and you describe yourself, is what I want for my DD!! However, I can't force that on her. Obviously, she is trying to figure this out in her mind...one day she is fine with it, the next,because it interferes with what she wants, it is not fine with her.

I think, that by mid-week, we will know if she gets into this school. If she doesn't, I slightly expect some angst towards me-I hope this is just a temporary thing, but I want to be prepared for her many questions and possible accusations. She doesn't understand(all of the time) that we,her parents, are stepping outside the box, to follow our convictions,as much as an inconvenience it may be for her(and us!) at times.

ETA: WDYM about: thinking can be dangerous? Is this sarcasm? Did I imply that I'm not wanting to encourage our DD to think?
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#8 of 19 Old 08-18-2008, 01:00 AM
 
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What makes you think I am surrounded by non-vaxers? When my children grew up, I instructed them to keep quiet about it.

I was THE ONLY person I knew outside my family who was not vaccinated when I grew up. I was constantly challenged as a young child, young person, young parent, and now even as a middle-aged woman as to whether or not I have done the right thing.

In every science and health class I encountered bad information about vaccinating, in history class I encountered wrong information about diseases, and everytime I went to a doctor, which was seldom, I was challenged about my vaccination status.

My parents and Aunt told me stories about smallpox vaccine campaigns when they grew up and the polio scare of the early 1950s. I had classmates who had polio.

I am 54. My youngest is 16. I have four children. They have attended private, public schools, day camps, and other activities. It has taken me a long time to get to this point of view. My children tell me now that they are grateful, as they see friends with chronic disease, autism, juvenile arthritis, and allergies, all related to vaccinations.

Life will go on. Your dd will be grateful.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#9 of 19 Old 08-18-2008, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
What makes you think I am surrounded by non-vaxers? When my children grew up, I instructed them to keep quiet about it.

I was THE ONLY person I knew outside my family who was not vaccinated when I grew up. I was constantly challenged as a young child, young person, young parent, and now even as a middle-aged woman as to whether or not I have done the right thing.

In every science and health class I encountered bad information about vaccinating, in history class I encountered wrong information about diseases, and everytime I went to a doctor, which was seldom, I was challenged about my vaccination status.

My parents and Aunt told me stories about smallpox vaccine campaigns when they grew up and the polio scare of the early 1950s. I had classmates who had polio.

I am 54. My youngest is 16. I have four children. They have attended private, public schools, day camps, and other activities. It has taken me a long time to get to this point of view. My children tell me now that they are grateful, as they see friends with chronic disease, autism, juvenile arthritis, and allergies, all related to vaccinations.

Life will go on. Your dd will be grateful.
Another pp said *her* DC were surrounded by non-vaxers.

My DD is *not* grateful for being vaxed. To this day, she has a compromised immune system-she is all too aware of that fact. She also suffers from SPD. No fun there either.

Yes, life does go on, and thankfully, vaxes are no longer on her horizon. But! That doesn't mean that as a preteen,bombarded-in a much different way than you were-she is always okay with our decision.
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#10 of 19 Old 08-18-2008, 02:42 AM
 
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I haven't discussed vaccines with my children because my oldest is only 5. But I do tell my 5 year old that one of my most important jobs is to keep her safe (like when she is fighting about wearing her carseat straps tight enough, or other times she is unhappy with one of my safety rules).

Your job is to keep your kids safe, as best as you can, with the information you have. You didn't have the vaccine information when your daughter was a baby. But you do now. She may be unhappy about not being allowed to get Gardisil, and that's fine. But you need to do your job. I hope that wasn't too simplistic. I know things get more complicated with older kids.

Kids do die from vaccines, including Gardisil, and I don't think 12 years is too young to know that.
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#11 of 19 Old 01-04-2009, 09:23 PM
 
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have her read some books:
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#12 of 19 Old 01-05-2009, 04:25 PM
 
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It has always been a topic of open conversation in our home. But, that is just our lifestyle. We eat organically so we will openly discuss a product or food and what it might contain.

Hubby is a Chiropractor so we get adjusted frequently and believe in the body's inate ability to heal of functioning at capacity. We rarely see the MD unless it is pretty severe. In fact, my 8 yr old son has been to the MD once in his life and my DD who is 5 yrs old never been to the MD. so, we openly discuss our choices to not be medicated for every sniffle and prevent disease rather than chase it.

So, as is our lifestyle we are open about the choices we have made now and in the past. I think it's important to discuss things all along so there are no shocks or surprises. I also think it ingrains the lifestyle more so.

I want my children to grow up to be able to make their own choice but I also want to give them a solid foundation on which to make those decisions later in life. Yes, now I choose the important stuff like non-vaxing but they are the ones who get the option of choosing the sugary cereal if they wish - just as long as they agree to read the box ingredients first and still continue to desire it.

I guess what I am getting at is that I think it is better to be open right from the time they can understand and then it just becomes part of life.

My own kids understand the implications of vax and what they are perceived to "prevent". Of course, their understanding is specific to their age and maturity but it's there.

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#13 of 19 Old 01-05-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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Applejuice,

I am having a hard time understanding your post. When you give the clapping smile, it feel to me that because my DD isn't completly at peace with our decisions, I've done something wrong. I came here to ask how/if/what others are telling their DC.
Since she was 10yo, my DD has suffered from anxiety and panic disorders-a lot due to my own many illnesses. It has felt to me, that I've had to walk on eggshells, when explaining to her about vaxes-not wanting to scare her, yet wanting to educate/inform her and explain the whys of our parenting choices. Geez. She's a preteen, trying to feel like she fits in. We are NOT surrounded by non-vaxers. Of all of her friends, she is the only one.
The kind of confidence that the pps and you describe yourself, is what I want for my DD!! However, I can't force that on her. Obviously, she is trying to figure this out in her mind...one day she is fine with it, the next,because it interferes with what she wants, it is not fine with her.

I think, that by mid-week, we will know if she gets into this school. If she doesn't, I slightly expect some angst towards me-I hope this is just a temporary thing, but I want to be prepared for her many questions and possible accusations. She doesn't understand(all of the time) that we,her parents, are stepping outside the box, to follow our convictions,as much as an inconvenience it may be for her(and us!) at times.

ETA: WDYM about: thinking can be dangerous? Is this sarcasm? Did I imply that I'm not wanting to encourage our DD to think?
My main question is this - do you, or do you not, believe with all your heart that vaccines contain dangerous ingredients that could seriously harm your child? If the answer is yes, then how could you even consider letting her get the vax just to get into a school? Our kids don't even know about vaccinations yet but if they want to every get vaccinated they will have to do it over the age of 18 because I could never, in good conscience, allow them to be injected with toxic chemicals. I don't have any advice to help you on explaining that to her (although my son also suffers from anxiety disorder, as well as bipolar disorder, so I understand completely what you mean by walking a fine line between educating and scaring them!) but I wish you luck. For what it's worth my two older children are in a private school and the school doesn't care about vax status at all.

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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#14 of 19 Old 01-05-2009, 06:20 PM
 
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I'm not even close to having these conversations yet, but I plan to tell my DD the truth about everything always. My mother did that for me. I've come to find she didn't know the truth about almost anything except the importance of vitamins, but at least I know that she tried her best and I appreciate that.
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#15 of 19 Old 01-06-2009, 02:07 PM
 
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This just came up for us the last day of school before Christmas break. My 8yo DD knew she had never had a shot but I hadn't yet gone into detail with her about it, reasons, etc. She's never asked. She attends public school on a religious exemption. No one has ever questioned our beliefs; as a matter of fact, it has never come up, period. However, the topic came up at school with her friends and she didn't like the reaction she was getting - worry (one girl thinks she may get a disease and die) and the "that's not fair!" accusation, and also some kids didn't believe her. She got so upset that she feigned illness so she could leave school. Today was her first day back and over the last two weeks, we have had many discussions about it. I hope I've educated her and made her feel better because she was really feeling like a misfit. I don't ever want her to feel bad about decisions I've made for her. It's a tough road unfortunately and I have to say I worry about it on a daily basis..........
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#16 of 19 Old 01-07-2009, 12:35 AM
 
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My dd1 is 10 and recently we had the "talk" about vaccines. What they are, why we don't, what's in them, what the risks are. I am sure many more discussions will come along, she was vaxed up til 18 months old.
She asked me about them b/c she hears Dh and I talking alot lately about autism/asbergers ( sp? ) and vax. Dh and I both are trying to raise our kids not only crunchy but as to why. Praying that my kids will be crunchy when it comes to their children.
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#17 of 19 Old 01-07-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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I am also no where near having this discussion, our son is not even 1 yr yet. however, when the time comes for him to understand the truth about shots, I would tell him, in a non-scary child way of course. also, i might tell him that a lot of people dont know/believe the same, and that it is okay to be different especially if you have all the reason, research, and belief behind you. it would be a good lesson in standing up for what you believe in! good luck! only you know what is best for your child, we all have our own unique road to travel...
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#18 of 19 Old 01-07-2009, 01:02 PM
 
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My children are 2 and 4 so it hasn't come up yet.

I guess I would say that vaccines are drugs and all drugs have the potential to harm the body and that though she has other options for her education, she only has one body to last her the next 80 years and that we need to do our best to keep it healthy. I might also mention that vaccine reactions tend to worsen not get better.

I doubt anything you say will make her ok with not going to that school, but such is the nature of a parent telling their child no. On the upside, children generally come to understand these decisions as adults; particularly when they have children of their own.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#19 of 19 Old 01-08-2009, 02:45 PM
 
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I'd say break it down, mami. Break it down into the simplest of terms as previous posters have said.

Tell her you believe vaccines are dangerous, based on the reading/research you've done. Because of that, because you're her parent, you cannot allow her to get them. Because you love her and want her to be healthy.

I also like what Emmeline II said about education at a specific institution being less important than her overall health and well-being.


My son is only 2.75, and is not yet verbal, so these conversations are some time away for us. But when it comes, I'll be taking my own advice and just breaking it down.

Good luck, mami! All will be well.
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