Could they ever make us vaccinate? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 37 Old 09-08-2008, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm still relatively new to this whole vax/not vax situation. My daughter is only 12 weeks old and she has had no vaccines. With this presidential election coming up and all the media hype lately over vaccines and bad mouthing of non-vaxers do you think they(the gov) could ever make us vax? Like take away religious exemption or something? I know I am just being paranoid but I already feel like the world is against me so I am just wondering if it might get difficult for us non-vaxers in the future?! Do you all wonder about this too?
And who knows .... maybe it will go in the other direction...with all this media attention maybe it will come to light how questionable vaccines really are!!
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#2 of 37 Old 09-08-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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Good question. I think only time will tell. I don't know if they would take religious exemption away only because it would cause an uproar w/us, but they could make it harder to get a religious exemption. Crack down on the ones using it as an excuse to not vaccinate.
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#3 of 37 Old 09-08-2008, 10:45 PM
 
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Good question. I think only time will tell. I don't know if they would take religious exemption away only because it would cause an uproar w/us, but they could make it harder to get a religious exemption. Crack down on the ones using it as an excuse to not vaccinate.

: not sure if they would take the waiver away, but may make it EXTREMELY hard to get one.

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#4 of 37 Old 09-09-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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I absolutely think they would take the religious exemptions away. Two states (I think) already don't offer them. IMO, it's a matter of time. But I think that time is several years away.

But no one will ever, ever force me to vax my kids. If it means I homeschool, then I'll homeschool.

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#5 of 37 Old 09-16-2008, 10:06 AM
 
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Yes I wander about this also. DD is only 13 months and I know how quickly 3 years is going to go by and before I know it, I will have to start the process of getting r. exemp.

OK, This is a rather risque question:
What exactly do schools require as proof of vaccinations? I do have one of those yellow immunization record cards. Is that it or do they check some sort of register as well. If thats all they require then HYPOTHETICALLY, one could forge this right?
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#6 of 37 Old 09-16-2008, 10:28 AM
 
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At our school, they have a form to take to the doctor, who fills it out and signs it. That same form has the space where the parent can sign claiming religious exemption, but if they take that away, you will need to have it signed by a doctor.
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#7 of 37 Old 09-16-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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This might help, you can look up by state:

http://www.publichealthlaw.net/Resou...LegisTrack.pdf

For example, my state says this passed:
"Relates to provisions for isolation and quarantine of persons exposed to or infected with a communicable disease; provides that a peace officer may use force if a person resists and act upon telephone, facsimile, or other electronic notification of a quarantine order; provides for notification and hearings; provides exemption from liability for vaccinations."

Generally from what I've read, I don't think they can hold you down and force vaccinate, but if you refuse they can quarantine. I don't think they are specifics as to how long a quarantine would be, so there's a little loophole there (who gets to decide, for how long??). I don't know if this is the same kind of thing passed in Homeland Security or not.

Article about religious exempt: http://ffitz.com/nyvic/law/filenbam.htm

I don't think this is quite what you are looking for, but it's for state and fed legislation:

http://www.astho.org/pubs/2008Immuni...ationFinal.pdf

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#8 of 37 Old 09-16-2008, 12:11 PM
 
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Here is what CDC rep and vaccine apologist/profiteer Paul Offit has to say on the issue:

Quote:
Given the increasing number of states allowing philosophical exemptions to vaccines, at some point we are going to be forced to decide whether it is our inalienable right to catch and transmit potentially fatal infections.
So yes, there are those out there who wish to strip away parental and familial self-determination. Either Offit is alone in this, or there is a well-funded army behind him. :

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#9 of 37 Old 09-16-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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I personally choose to use a religious exemption instead of a philosophical one even though my state offers one. My thinking is that the philosophical one would probably be the first one to go, and I am definitely not the poster child for religious exemptions.

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#10 of 37 Old 09-17-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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IMHO.... Yes.
http://www.nmaseminars.com/Coalition...datoryVax.html
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#11 of 37 Old 09-17-2008, 06:26 PM
 
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It depends on how much money and power the pharmeceutical companies throw at the politicians. It depends on whether the doctors will back them up. There is a big movement towards alternative medicine, so if we as american voters start to push the issue of licensing these alt med practitioners as legitimate doctors, then their voices will count too.

For now you can avoid vaccinations by homeschooling, but how long before use of public roads and sidewalks requires a vaccination?
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#12 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 05:17 AM
 
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My own mother thinks that exemptions should be taken away "for the good of society". And she's college educated, highly intelligent, quite liberal... However, I did get her to "admit" that vaccines can and do cause autism. But she still thinks everyone should vaccinate.
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#13 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ckumelos View Post
It depends on how much money and power the pharmeceutical companies throw at the politicians. It depends on whether the doctors will back them up. There is a big movement towards alternative medicine, so if we as american voters start to push the issue of licensing these alt med practitioners as legitimate doctors, then their voices will count too.

For now you can avoid vaccinations by homeschooling, but how long before use of public roads and sidewalks requires a vaccination?
I personally don't think the alternative medical care will get very far in this issue. Canada was trying to fastrack a bill (C51) to move health food supplements into the same category and regulation as rx drugs. Australia actually passed a bill that made many health food store empty their supplements aisles (and luckily this was everturned in the courts). There is talk the US is trying to follow suit.

I honestly don't think our exemptions will be too far behind but I will do whatever I can to keep my personaly medical decisions made by me.

There is also a big push from the pharma industry to stop this anti-vax talk. I read this morning that supposedly they are trying to push for ratings on internet sites to stop the anti-vax talk. I don't know how much truth to it there is (wasn't the best source) but I wouldn't doubt that they are at least behind the scare mongering articles that have been popping up a lot lately.
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#14 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pantufla View Post
My own mother thinks that exemptions should be taken away "for the good of society". And she's college educated, highly intelligent, quite liberal... However, I did get her to "admit" that vaccines can and do cause autism. But she still thinks everyone should vaccinate.
It seems like more liberals than conservatives are in favor of mandatory vaxes. Liberals tend to be more about the common good, conservatives about individual freedom, so it makes sense from that perspective. I'm not sure how much either candidate has expressed an opinion about the issue, but then again they don't exactly fit the lib/con typical profiles anyway.

On the homeschooling thing, do any other states besides PA require an exemption for homeschooling as well? Or are we just special here? :
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#15 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 08:54 PM
 
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I would move to the middle of the deep woods before I would allow anyone to make me vax. I have several Christian Science friends, and they just do everything without blinking an eye. They send their kids to public school, do sports, camps, etc, and don't even worry about it. They don't worry about this stuff at all. They don't even think about it. I am going to think like that I guess! Just assume it is my right and no one will take it away. I guess the CS religion also has pretty strong lobbyists watching the govt too, so that helps.
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#16 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, so I'm not crazy in worrying about this....seems like others are concerned too.
If they do take our rights away I've already told hubby to pack his bags because we are moving. ha!
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#17 of 37 Old 09-18-2008, 09:40 PM
 
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My own mother thinks that exemptions should be taken away "for the good of society". And she's college educated, highly intelligent, quite liberal... However, I did get her to "admit" that vaccines can and do cause autism. But she still thinks everyone should vaccinate.
But, that hasn't been proven...so how can she admit to it?
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#18 of 37 Old 09-23-2008, 05:42 PM
 
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Its my understanding that NY is trying to pull the reigns in on the religious exemptions. I don't know how recent this is, but its news to me.

http://schoolhealthservices.org/laws....cfm?subpage=4

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If, after review of the parental/guardian statement, questions remain about the existence of a sincerely held religious belief, Department of Health regulation [10 NYCRR, Section 66-1.3(d)] permits the principal to request supporting documents.
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#19 of 37 Old 09-26-2008, 03:41 PM
 
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#20 of 37 Old 09-27-2008, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So last night on our local news there was story how a middle school suspended children who weren't up to date on vax's! I'm not even sure that is legal???!!! They said it was due to many children not having DTAP and an outbreak of the whooping cough. If you had religious exemption - would it not be illegal for them to suspend you?
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#21 of 37 Old 09-28-2008, 08:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stayo22 View Post
So last night on our local news there was story how a middle school suspended children who weren't up to date on vax's! I'm not even sure that is legal???!!! They said it was due to many children not having DTAP and an outbreak of the whooping cough. If you had religious exemption - would it not be illegal for them to suspend you?
No, it is legal. The law where I'm at says that if a VPD breaks out, then you will be asked to keep your unvaxed child home. It's supposedly to keep your child safe. I think they suspended them to keep them home, but that's pretty strong verbage, and the wrong way to put it, imo.
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#22 of 37 Old 10-04-2008, 03:17 PM
 
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No, it is legal. The law where I'm at says that if a VPD breaks out, then you will be asked to keep your unvaxed child home. It's supposedly to keep your child safe. I think they suspended them to keep them home, but that's pretty strong verbage, and the wrong way to put it, imo.
No, it's not the same. A child may be "excluded" during an outbreak (which the law allows), but a suspension is a punitive action, which is not part of the law.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#23 of 37 Old 10-04-2008, 03:20 PM
 
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They'd have to catch us first.

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#24 of 37 Old 10-04-2008, 10:18 PM
 
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I read on Dr. Mercola's site, that the waivers are there to cover the Gov't. butt.
if they werent there and a kid had a reaction, they would be 100% liable, but b/c we have waivers they can say, "well, if you thought it might be dangerous you should have opted out"

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#25 of 37 Old 10-06-2008, 02:08 AM
 
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I read on Dr. Mercola's site, that the waivers are there to cover the Gov't. butt.
if they werent there and a kid had a reaction, they would be 100% liable, but b/c we have waivers they can say, "well, if you thought it might be dangerous you should have opted out"

We don't have a religious or philosphical exemption option (MS.) Why isn't the MS gov't worried about liability?

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#26 of 37 Old 10-06-2008, 02:42 AM
 
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i think it's entirely possible. But I would do anything in my power to NOT vaccinate as it's against my ethical and religious beliefs. I've been thinking about this too. I hold other religious beliefs the government disagrees with... oh well.

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#27 of 37 Old 10-13-2008, 12:24 AM
 
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Don't know how much stock you all take in astrology . . . but in my (admittedly limited) reading about the times we are in, there is the belief that in the U.S. there will be an atmosphere of conformity where everything and everyone who doesn't conform will basically have a hell of a time. I wonder about that. Because, truly, if it came down to it and I couldn't send my kids to school because they are not vaxed, I'd figure out how I could homeschool. But it they tried to take my kids away or put me in jail for not vax-ing . . . I can't say I'd be so "rebellious" as to take that risk. I mean, how do you choose between two (awful) risks (imprisonment/having your kids removed and vaccination)?

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#28 of 37 Old 10-13-2008, 09:29 AM
 
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I have no doubt that, not only can they do this, machinations are in place to make it very easy. If you study the history of social legislation in the US, it becomes quite clear that what we think of as our inalienable rights are things the government views as privileges that it grants at its convenience. Subconsciously, most people accept this. They accept the abrogation of our labor (income tax), our property (property tax), our kids (compulsive attendance, CPS), our health (compulsive vaccination), etc. The latter two are still subject to exemptions, which makes the mandate the default.
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#29 of 37 Old 10-13-2008, 09:36 PM
 
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Yeah, they could...really, think of the Patriot Act and all the legislation regarding bio-terriosim. I can't figure there would be much of a fight among congress if they wanted to tack on a 'mass vaccination' mandate to 'protect' us from OBL or whatever.

In Iowa I'm required to submit exemption before homeschooling, if it ever came to forced vaccinations I dunno what we'd do...flee the country maybe? Live off the grid in Mexico.

Although, I don't know how much of a fight I'd put up if they said "We are taking your children. You will vaccinate or never see them again." I can't say I'd allow my children to spend one second in state custody if it was within my power to stop it. And I know darn well DH would have them vaccinated no matter what I said if it came to that...

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#30 of 37 Old 10-14-2008, 01:49 PM
 
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Although, I don't know how much of a fight I'd put up if they said "We are taking your children. You will vaccinate or never see them again." I can't say I'd allow my children to spend one second in state custody if it was within my power to stop it. And I know darn well DH would have them vaccinated no matter what I said if it came to that...
My MIL and several of her siblings were taken fifty years ago in Arkansas for not vaccinating. There was a long and ugly court case, and it turned out that some of the children WERE vaccinated by the court. Their father (my dh's grandfather) said that if they were vaccinated, it wasn't at his hands and that was the battle. Now, in this day and age, I don't know that I'd trust any sort of foster care...even to put the onus of the government rather than myself.

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