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#1 of 18 Old 09-11-2008, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone--

We've decided not to vaccinate pending further research. Right now, the risks seem to far outweigh the benefits and until I read something that proves to me compellingly that the "cure" isn't worse than the disease, we're not jabbing our child.

That said, could you please let me know what kind of reactions we should expect from other parents? Family? Friends? Does this come up a lot, and are there graceful ways to change the subject without revealing too much?

I don't feel well-read enough on the subject to engage in debates or attempt to change other people's minds (and that's not really my style, anyway) and would prefer to just discreetly go our own way.

Any advice from the seasoned non-vaxing mamas out there? Thanks!

P.S. I'll be a SAHM and we're planning to homeschool, so getting exemptions and such shouldn't be an issue.

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#2 of 18 Old 09-11-2008, 06:42 PM
 
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I don't discuss it, except with my BFF of 30 years. When other people bring it up, generally in reference to their own kid recently been vaxed I just nod and yeah yeah them and then change the subject by asking them an unrelated question or whatever.
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#3 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 12:04 AM
 
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i live in queens, i see you live in brooklyn, hi! um....i am not anti vax yet. I still believe some are important but that is another story- dont tell people unless you want to be defending yourself all the time. i find it very annoying to be on the defensive. my family understands, but other than that, most are brainwashed beyond belief. if they are told it is safe, that is the only thing vaccines are - safe. i cosleep- and get so much flak for that from anyone I tell, and I still nurse and I get weird looks for that too. so just tell people your children are on a delayed schedule, or are up to date, unless you want a fight.

by that way, that is great that you can be comfortable with not vaxing. I am not there yet, dont know if I will ever be, but I know for sure my selective schedule will take years longer to complete than the one provided by the CDC.

good luck!
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#4 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
Hi everyone--

We've decided not to vaccinate pending further research. Right now, the risks seem to far outweigh the benefits and until I read something that proves to me compellingly that the "cure" isn't worse than the disease, we're not jabbing our child.

That said, could you please let me know what kind of reactions we should expect from other parents? Family? Friends? Does this come up a lot, and are there graceful ways to change the subject without revealing too much?

I don't feel well-read enough on the subject to engage in debates or attempt to change other people's minds (and that's not really my style, anyway) and would prefer to just discreetly go our own way.

Any advice from the seasoned non-vaxing mamas out there? Thanks!

P.S. I'll be a SAHM and we're planning to homeschool, so getting exemptions and such shouldn't be an issue.
Hi! SAHM homeschool as well!
Here is what you should do. Print out the CDC's list of ingredients
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-1.pdf
Make sure you point out the aborted fetal tissue (human diploid tissue), monkey kidney, mouse brains and formaldehyde.
Here is a graph showing the decline in death rates BEFORE the vaccines were introduced http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item Tell them that the CDC's graph will look different because their graph is showing the incidence of infection, not the death rates. Also, when the CDC quotes the death rates they are using a world wide estimate. My graph is for just the US. (you might want to write that down on the paper) Also, the source for the graph's info is right on the graph if they would like to double check it.
"What is wrong with you? Mercury isn't even in vaccines anymore"
"No (insert name here), you're wrong! http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm "
Package inserts that come with every vaccine. Look at Adverse Reactions
http://www.ctvia.org/index.cfm?folder=154
Summary of the VAERS database http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/stats.html The CDC states that only 10% of reactions get reported.. so what's the real number?
And you could always tell them to go to my page, www.myspace.com/parentsagainstvax
Hope this has helped!!
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#5 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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At the beginning, I mostly didn't mention it. I wasn't comfortable lying, but it's pretty rare to get the point-blank question from someone you don't know well, and I didn't. I did share a few concerns about vaccinating with a couple friends with babies, but I didn't press it and I don't know what they ultimately did. But I did stay quiet a couple times during bigger group discussions.

I think part of the reaction you get is based on how you are perceived to feel about your choice. I don't think I would get a lot of flak because I've had to do a whole lot of work with my health and with my kids' health and it's been hard. I don't feel much pressure to agree with others' on health issues because I've had to go so far outside the box to figure out our stuff. So mental attitude (not even words, since I'm not a big one on loud confrontations and I can never come up with quick come-backs at the time) is important, but it took me a while to get here.

Some of our family knows, some don't--some may guess but not want a confrontation (since it's already obvious that we make different choices than they do). I've gravitated toward groups of people who share similar views toward parenting in general, and a higher proportion of them are non or s/d vaccinating so it's a non-issue in those circles.
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#6 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 01:37 AM
 
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Ok, I just have to say this, I am not anti vaccine, but I have always demanded the shots be fresh so they don't have mercury and the other preservatives in the shot. It was more expensive, but worth it. My dd is currently getting the HPV series, I have a history of cervical cancer, so I am hoping to eliminate that for her. She only has one more in November! I admire those of you whe feel comfortable not doing the vax, but could never get there myself, plus husband is nurse and totally supportive of vax, as he has to get some every year.
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#7 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 02:59 AM
 
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If you tell family, they will worry, and they will bother you every time you see them. If you tell them it's not up for discussion anymore, they might respect that, but it will still be uncomfortable to be around them, as they bite their tongues.

Friends and acquaintances (and family members too) may no longer want their kids to be around yours, out of fear.

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't be telling you this. If I were selfish, I'd want you and all other non-vaxing parents to tell everyone they know, in order to normalize it for me.
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#8 of 18 Old 09-12-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tomuchspade View Post
Ok, I just have to say this, I am not anti vaccine, but I have always demanded the shots be fresh so they don't have mercury and the other preservatives in the shot. It was more expensive, but worth it. My dd is currently getting the HPV series, I have a history of cervical cancer, so I am hoping to eliminate that for her. She only has one more in November! I admire those of you whe feel comfortable not doing the vax, but could never get there myself, plus husband is nurse and totally supportive of vax, as he has to get some every year.
What does being fresh have to do with mercury content? I know there are still vax out there with mercury, cant remember which ones though. So being fresh wont make any difference.

 
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#9 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 03:12 AM
 
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Thanks, AutumnNoelle!

OP, we don't talk about it to anyone, really. One friend knows b/c we talk about vaccines, b/c she has to have them all the time to show happy compliance with her liver transplant program (try to explain how someone on immunosuppressing drugs is supposed to create an immune response and become immune??? her docs don't care that she CAN'T mount a response, and just keep saying "your titers show you're not immune, here are more jabs" that you *have to do or you're out of the program*). Other friends might know b/c they knew that I was anti-vax before I had DS, but they don't ask about any of my pre-baby beliefs.

But with anyone else? Nope. Pre-baby I had a convo about vaxes with my NICU nurse stepmom and she was NOT happy with me. All sorts of nonsensical party line arguments and wouldn't listen to reason. Dad follows her say on health stuff even though I've been in the health field for longer than she has.

My mom would have been all for it, but she died before I even met hubby. Stepdad could probably get behind it b/c of the human diploid cells (he's uber-Christian) but on the other hand, he follows "orders" very well.

MIL just wouldn't understand b/c she thinks that American health care is the be all end all, even though her direct experience shows her otherwise (she's Korean).


Hubby has tried to tell some people, and it doesn't go well.
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#10 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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What does being fresh have to do with mercury content? I know there are still vax out there with mercury, cant remember which ones though. So being fresh wont make any difference.
Apparently it does, for some. For instance, I had WinRho, not Rhogam. The vial came frozen and I had to bring it to the doctor to be administered quickly. I believe that thimerosal is a preservative; at least, that's what I was told (this is before I researched vaccinations).

And regarding HPV, the vax does not prevent cervical cancer. It may help to prevent some strains of HPV which may cause cancer, BUT there have been indications that serotype replacement has happened, so there is really no pointin the shot.
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#11 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 03:49 AM
 
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If you are going to tell people, which I advise against, I would just tell them that "for medical reasons we are delaying- DS had a reaction and the doctor is trying to be careful" and change the subject. Little white lie... but worth it to not deal with the ignorance. Besides you are still "researching" For those that are close to you, mil-mother-bil-sil-fil-dad all those kinds of people you are going to have to use your gut instincts. Many may understand- like in my family DS had some serious reactions. My mom was ALL for Not Vaxing because of his reactions(and because of how he is now due to that), but when she found out that we didn't vax the OTHER 3 children she was... upset. She asked about a hundred questions- all of which I had answers for- or at least gut instincts. I told her that I had to honor my motherly instincts, and they were telling me- along with my research that this was not the path for my family.

BTW- if you have "friends" that stop being your friends over this issue then they weren't really your friends. And if it wasn't this issue that you disagreed over, it would have been another- discipline (that's a BIG one) breastfeeding, daycare, diaper choices, CLW, co-sleeping, extended rear facing. It is always something... Motherhood has a way of making you new, and showing you who your life friends are.

Congratulations on your research(and that's so important to be educated!)- I am glad to hear about another mother that has made the best decision for HER family- one way or another- and I hope you continue to research the information! You also should have an exemption done- in case you find yourselves in need of state assistance, wic, or have issues with a doctor. You NEVER know when you might need to have all your ducks in a row!

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#12 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 04:19 AM
 
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Apparently it does, for some. For instance, I had WinRho, not Rhogam. The vial came frozen and I had to bring it to the doctor to be administered quickly. I believe that thimerosal is a preservative; at least, that's what I was told (this is before I researched vaccinations).

And regarding HPV, the vax does not prevent cervical cancer. It may help to prevent some strains of HPV which may cause cancer, BUT there have been indications that serotype replacement has happened, so there is really no pointin the shot.
That makes sense thanks for clearing that up for me.

 
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#13 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Autumn, that list of links is great--thank you so much!

janellesmommy, I need to hear the good and the bad. Thanks for being so honest.

yarngoddess, great advice. Thank you!

Thanks everyone else for your responses. There is a lot to think about but I do feel better knowing that negative reactions from concerned family and friends can be dealt with tactfully. This decision isn't one we made lightly and since there are many MDs on both sides of the family, I know it will eventually come up.

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#14 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 05:59 PM
 
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I never volunteer my children's vax status. If people are talking about vaxs then I just nod and smile, like I am a vaxer. If I am straight out asked if my children are vaxed by other parents, I do not lie and say they are, but say something like with my children's medical histories, family history of severe vax reactions, etc... we have been advised by their doctors not to vax at this point in time. Almost always the person asking the question is satisfied that I am a "responsible" parent and that I would vax if given the chance, and the subject is dropped. If I run into another non-vaxer then yes we'll discuss vaxs but that is very rare, I only know a couple. When dealing with medical professionals, it depends. Sometimes I play the "RN card" since I am one, sometimes I do lie and say they have had all their vaxs (I'm likely to do this in an ER setting) , most times I say we delay, I never come out and say that my DC will not be receiving vaxs since I feel that is none of their business. I also refuse to debate vaxs with people, I just say I am informed, and will not discuss this any longer.



I will say that I used to be more open but after having dealt with a VPD and the public backlash that my children were disease carriers, I no longer share info freely.

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#15 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 06:09 PM
 
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i dont discuss it.

i find that most ppl do not understand. they repeat what they have been told by pediatricians, etc. etc. and I am just not interested in debating the issue with anyone. i have researched and feel completely comfortable with not vaxing my children and i have no interest in discussing hte issue with someone who cant at least have an open mind.

so...if someone asks me what i think, i may say that we have researched it and that we have decided not to vaccinate. i see how their attitude is after that and if they are open minded, ill discuss it. if not, i will walk away.
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#16 of 18 Old 09-13-2008, 07:40 PM
 
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This decision isn't one we made lightly and since there are many MDs on both sides of the family, I know it will eventually come up.
MDs!? Lie, lie, lie...once you tell you cannot take it back.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#17 of 18 Old 09-14-2008, 03:51 AM
 
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Autumn, that is a great quick reference for inquiring minds! to you!

OP,sharing your parenting decisions in general=welcoming of advice...good and bad. Sharing your decision to not vax=negative,judgemental,and potentially dangerous consequences. Think long and hard before you decide what-and with whom- you share info. Whose business is it? You, the parent.Period.

Sometimes standing up for our DC, means shutting down(out?)certain topics....and IMNHO....vaxing is one of those topics. Once the cat is out of the bag....well....it's quite difficult to get it back....more like,impossible.

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#18 of 18 Old 09-22-2008, 02:47 PM
 
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I generally don't discuss it. There are a few people who know how much I research anything medical related so they have asked me my take and I say "Everyone needs to weight the benefits againsts the risks for their family. Most of the diseases I worry about are in such low numbers in the US that a child is statistically more likely to have a reaction to the vax than get the disease". I leave it at that. They can ask questions if they want to know more. Some have and some haven't. Most people want to know how you get children enrolled in school if you don't want to do one and I mention about exemptions.

I usually don't fess up to no shots unless asked directly (and have been asked a couple of times). In an unrelated health situation like going to the ER for a broken bone I will probably lie and say they are up to date or we are religiously opposed. Haven't had this yet so I'm not completely sure what I would do.

Luckily DH knows how research minded I am (which has been helpful in no vaxing, HB, and other unconventional choices we've made). When I brought up not vaxing he said to make sure before we did it. I said the more I read and research the more sure I become that it's the right choice. That was all I needed to make sure he was onboard.
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