doctor's trying to scare me into vaxing - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-18-2008, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i just had to come b!tch about our appointment this morning

i needed a form filled out for daycare (physical form), so i took DD in for a check-up. she is totally unvaxed. doctor asks what do we want to do about immunizations now that she's in daycare, and i say i feel the same about not vaxing.

then he tells me that because she's in daycare, her risk just went up a THOUSAND fold. (which is patently ridiculous, first of all. second of all, risk of WHAT? he didn't say.)

then he tells me that pertussis is still a huge risk for her, there's a 10% chance she'd wind up hospitalized for it, and that the illness lasts 3 months, so she could be in the hospital for 3 months : (not bloody likely, i think. she's a very healthy girl, and if she got pertussis, i really doubt she'd be horribly ill for 3 months.)

so he says there 130 cases of pertussis in my town last year. and if there's similar outbreak i need to take her out of daycare immediately. i tell him there's an "outbreak" every year because it's endemic, since the vax doesn't prevent transmission. he says it does prevent transmission in 75% of kids. (whatever, he's wrong. anyway, that makes no sense because how can you prove that someone who didn't get whooping cough didn't get it BECAUSE of the vaccine. they might have not gotten it anyway, right?)

the kicker is, i really challenged him on why being in daycare is such a big deal, since i know some of his other patients don't vax at all. i told him even if i were home with her, we'd go to playgroups, classes, the grocery store, anywhere and everywhere. it's not like we'd be confined to our house.

he tells me ALL his other patients who don't vax live in the woods, homeschool, and their kids have NO CONTACT with other children.

(wow. are they being homeschooled by wolves, i wonder? and incidentally, their parents must all be insane from never leaving the house with them. they must grow all of their own food and make their own clothes, since clearly shopping is out of the question if your children can't see the light of day.)

basically, he says the only way not vaxing is safe is if your child is never going to go to school or have any contact with other children. niiiice.

then of course i got the requisite story of how there used to be kid after kid dying in the hospital with meningitis back in the dark ages before the hib vaccine, . i told him i never had the hib vaccine or meningitis, and neither did anyone i know, and he said we were all "very lucky"

i pretty much know this is all crap, but it would still be nice if you guys reassured me. i did have a few pangs of guilt when i thought of DD getting hospitalized for 3 months with whooping cough.

by the way, i hate the freakin' vax propaganda talk! drives me

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Old 09-18-2008, 01:58 PM
 
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s: Good for you to fight you ped on this!

Luckily I haven't had to fight a ped about this issue yet I know how you feel about the propaganda talk.

I just read this morning about an article where the pharma companies are sick of the misinformation and conspiracy theories on the web and want to create an agency that assigns trust worthniess ratings to websites. Then they talk about how the mercury that's in the MMR vax doesn't cause autism. : Yeah right. That's really correct information. How can a live virus vax contain mercury??? :

It looks like your daughter is about 18 months. She is out of the danger zone for pertussis. It is not very likely she would need to be hospitalized at this point if she is healthy. I feel the same way as you about HIB.
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post
s:

Luckily I haven't had to fight a ped about this issue yet I know how you feel about the propaganda talk.

I just read this morning about an article where the pharma companies are sick of the misinformation and conspiracy theories on the web and want to create an agency that assigns trust worthniess ratings to websites. Then they talk about how the mercury that's in the MMR vax doesn't cause autism. : Yeah right. That's really correct information. How can a live virus vax contain mercury??? :

It looks like your daughter is about 18 months. She is out of the danger zone for pertussis. It is not very likely she would need to be hospitalized at this point if she is healthy. I feel the same way as you about HIB.
ITA. i wonder if they'll put a trustworthiness rating on the cdc's website, considering pretty much nothing on that site is referenced, and it all contradicts itself ...and how exactly could big pharma (the people making all the $$$$$$ off the vaxes) be responsible for assigning "trustworthiness" to a website?!? isn't that a slight conflict of interest?

OP, sounds like you stood your ground quite well with your doc ...sounds like his spiel reeked of fear-mongering nonsense...good for you for being on your toes!

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Old 09-18-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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ITA. i wonder if they'll put a trustworthiness rating on the cdc's website, considering pretty much nothing on that site is referenced, and it all contradicts itself ...and how exactly could big pharma (the people making all the $$$$$$ off the vaxes) be responsible for assigning "trustworthiness" to a website?!? isn't that a slight conflict of interest?

Not to sidetrack but I find this funny too since many of us do some of our research by looking at the CDC's pink book and the package inserts.
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:26 PM
 
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basically, he says the only way not vaxing is safe is if your child is never going to go to school or have any contact with other children.
but if the other kids are all vaxed, and the vaxes work so well, what's the problem? this is what always gets me. when they say things like this, they are blatantly admitting they don't believe vaccines work very well to prevent disease.

First of all, how could he possibly come up with a "10% hospitalized" figure, when the CDC estimates that only 5-10% of all cases of pertussis are recognized and reported?


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The CDC reported 39 deaths from pertussis in 2005; 32 (82%) occurred in infants younger than 3 months.
if every child over a year old with pertussis were hospitalized for 3 months, you'd see entire "Pertussis wards". Fact is, most of them aren't even diagnosed correctly. The 3 month figure is ridiculous and fearmongering. Have sodium ascorbate on hand to administer during any cough. And consider finding a new ped.

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Old 09-18-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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All of this type of crap makes me never want to take my kids to the Dr. I feel guilty sometimes because I don't but all they do is vaccine lecture and perscribe antibiotics.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:45 PM
 
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Now you know why Ronan only says woof, woof.

Thanks for the heads-up--R has an appt next month. I'll let you know how it goes. You know that we are totally antisocial woodspeople. Especially since they leveled the ravine out back and put houses in place of trees.

Speaking of playgroup, wanna incubate tomorrow?

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Old 09-19-2008, 01:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post

i pretty much know this is all crap, but it would still be nice if you guys reassured me. i did have a few pangs of guilt when i thought of DD getting hospitalized for 3 months with whooping cough.

by the way, i hate the freakin' vax propaganda talk! drives me
OMGsh!!!! That's a WHOLE bunch of crap!!!

I.....HATE these drs who think they are gods. He must have had one helluva good lunch with his pharma rep.

Momma-you rock! It is so hard to stand our ground when under the pressure of a prick.You did great!

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Old 09-19-2008, 01:15 AM
 
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All of this type of crap makes me never want to take my kids to the Dr. I feel guilty sometimes because I don't but all they do is vaccine lecture and perscribe antibiotics.
ITA! Oh...but the labs! *Sometimes* the blood draws are good for something...if the person reading them knows what they're doing. But, that's it,really.
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:20 AM
 
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Now you know why Ronan only says woof, woof.

Thanks for the heads-up--R has an appt next week. I'll let you know how it goes. You know that we are totally antisocial woodspeople. Especially since they leveled the ravine out back and put houses in place of trees.

Speaking of playgroup, wanna incubate tomorrow?
:
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Old 09-19-2008, 07:15 AM
 
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he tells me ALL his other patients who don't vax live in the woods, homeschool, and their kids have NO CONTACT with other children.

(wow. are they being homeschooled by wolves, i wonder? and incidentally, their parents must all be insane from never leaving the house with them. they must grow all of their own food and make their own clothes, since clearly shopping is out of the question if your children can't see the light of day.)
So he does house calls? Wearing a totally protective suit that he pulls out of packaging (it was made and packaged by robots in a sterile environment that was also made by robots) and puts on before entering their home? Wow. Impressive. Wonder how the completely isolated people make money to pay for that suit and his house call fees????



If I heard that doctor talking, this is what I might say.

"Doc, when you say these things, what I hear is 'I am completely incompetent at helping to care for children with certain illnesses. I skipped those days in medical school and went surfing instead, b/c I was fed a bunch of bologna that vaccines were 100% infallible, and everyone had them done. I messed up, and don't know how to care for your child if s/he gets these things, and I think you should fire me b/c I haven't a single clue.' Doc, is that what your'e saying to me? Because I'm sure I can find an ND who knows how to take care of these diseases if they happen, or perhaps an OLD-time MD, if that's what you're telling me. And if you are, I've got some websites to mention that on, starting with the AMA's doc-info pages."
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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If I heard that doctor talking, this is what I might say.

"Doc, when you say these things, what I hear is 'I am completely incompetent at helping to care for children with certain illnesses. I skipped those days in medical school and went surfing instead, b/c I was fed a bunch of bologna that vaccines were 100% infallible, and everyone had them done. I messed up, and don't know how to care for your child if s/he gets these things, and I think you should fire me b/c I haven't a single clue.' Doc, is that what your'e saying to me? Because I'm sure I can find an ND who knows how to take care of these diseases if they happen, or perhaps an OLD-time MD, if that's what you're telling me. And if you are, I've got some websites to mention that on, starting with the AMA's doc-info pages."
I am seriously going to practice this speech in front of a mirror until I get it down pat. We haven't found a pediatrician yet (still a few weeks away from delivering our first) but at this point I'm wondering if we should just say screw it and find a sympathetic FP.

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Old 09-19-2008, 04:02 PM
 
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he tells me ALL his other patients who don't vax live in the woods, homeschool, and their kids have NO CONTACT with other children.

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Old 09-19-2008, 04:26 PM
 
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I just finished reading a little about meningitis and how a lot of the cases are caused by tainted formula, basically bacteria gets in there and causes a serious infection that leads to meningitis.
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Old 09-19-2008, 10:14 PM
 
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he tells me ALL his other patients who don't vax live in the woods, homeschool, and their kids have NO CONTACT with other children.

They do have contact w/ his office, though. Ew! Sounds like he doesn't appreciate his granola patients.

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Old 09-19-2008, 11:00 PM
 
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I just finished reading a little about meningitis and how a lot of the cases are caused by tainted formula, basically bacteria gets in there and causes a serious infection that leads to meningitis.
Could you please post a link? I could not EBF so I would love to read more on this.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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They do have contact w/ his office, though. Ew! Sounds like he doesn't appreciate his granola patients.
He most likely lives in some kind of parallel universe if he really believes that all non-vaxers live in the woods, have no contact to others and homeschool. Or he is simply lying which happens pretty often. Just think of the "oh, just this week I have seen a pretty bad case of XXXXX"-insert the disease for the vaccine you just declined.

If you don't happen to live in the woods and don't fit his "view" on unvaxed people, let him know...at least that's not "all of his patients."

I personally JUST loved hearing a friend of my husband's go on a rant about parents who don't vaccinate. She's a biologist and married to a med school student...I had to turn away laughing when she mentioned that "because of those here that don't vax we have polio and smallpox coming back to the US", I had a hard time not laughing. I am sure that the CDC would LOVE to know that wild polio and smallpox are a frequent occurence here in the US.

My husband threw me a look, I saw that he was bracing himself for my speech but I just turned away, DS was falling asleep in my arms, didn't want to wake him and people like that are beyong hope. She is a freaking biologist and comes up with stuff like that? I was just fascinated by her rant about people that don't vax, If I would have told her about us she would have had a heart attack. I just corrected some facts and no, TB ist not on the regular vax schedule of toddlers...I love how those that are convinced how non-vaxers are a serious breed with problems, can't even get their facts straight. Come on, polio and small pox??? Pllllllllllleeeeeease!
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:28 PM
 
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he tells me ALL his other patients who don't vax live in the woods, homeschool, and their kids have NO CONTACT with other children.
Ok, so does he do home visits with them then? LOL!


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Old 09-22-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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This isn't the article I was talking about but here is something RE meningitis bacteria...

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Rese...-in-baby-foods
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:57 PM
 
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This isn't the article I was talking about but here is something RE meningitis bacteria...

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Rese...-in-baby-foods
Thank you!
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:07 PM
 
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whoopingcough.net has great info about it. Including how its 100 times more prevalent then official stats show. So I don't think you would have a very good chance of being hospitalized for 3 mos. FWIW, my kids have had it. None were hospitalized. Including my 1 yr old at the time.

So all these hsed kids who have no contact with others are at risk from what and whom? If vaccines work (including at preventing transmission) then what would they be getting from who? You know hes just spouting off what he learned and was told to say if anyone ever questioned him about vaxes.

I wonder what exactly they would need to be hospitalized for for 3 mos? I probably would have asked him, "really? you have seen this before? Why were in the hospital so long?"

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Old 09-22-2008, 08:55 PM
 
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BRI276 but if the other kids are all vaxed, and the vaxes work so well, what's the problem? this is what always gets me. when they say things like this, they are blatantly admitting they don't believe vaccines work very well to prevent disease.

vaccines are not 100% effective. everyone knows that. even the docs. it refers more to unvaccinated people that can spread a VPD to a baby that has not yet had a chance to be vaccinated:
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