My son was cultured for pertussis... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know if the doc is just trying to 'scare' me, as their particular office has had several case in the past few years, and even 1 death.
He had a minor cold about 2 weeks ago. Got better in a few days, the just last week started having a nasty cough and still has it now a week later. No other symptoms, no fever, no congestion, etc...

The doc said b/c he's not vax, he wanted to rule it out. He was also concerned about my 11 mth old twins. But they are completely fine.

We just recently moved and started going to this ped office. They are more mainstream, but haven't been too confrontational about the vax issue. Our ped back in Atlanta was awesome in regards to this issue, she asked once and never mentioned it again. Though I wonder if they are going to get on my case more. He also 'warned' me that if it comes back positive, he'll have to report it to the health dept.

I will be doing more research, but am just wondering how likely it is. He's not in preschool/day care. So if its positive, I have no clue where he would have gotten it from. We haven't been to any playgroups lately as my FIL was visiting and we stayed home a lot.

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#2 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 12:15 AM
 
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Grrr, I'd find a new ped fast, that's ridiculous. Plenty of kids that actually do have it don't get tested for it and get the wrong diagnosis just because they've been vaxed.
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#3 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 07:22 AM
 
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^Right! And I wonder if that death was really pertussis cuz I bet some peds will give non-vaxed kids the wrong diagnosis,too.
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#4 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 07:41 AM
 
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It's pretty darn likely, sadly. I had it recently and I can't remember being around any coughing people. Pertussis is back on the rise. The vax doesn't last forever (assuming you agree that it works at all) so there are plenty of adults who have it. I'd get treatment if you can.
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#5 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Bear View Post
The doc said b/c he's not vax, he wanted to rule it out. He was also concerned about my 11 mth old twins. But they are completely fine.
Sooo, if he was vaxed then the doc wasn't going to bother testing?!? He obviously doesn't understand the basic premise that DTaP does not prevent transmission. :

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#6 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 03:36 PM
 
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He also 'warned' me that if it comes back positive, he'll have to report it to the health dept.

I will be doing more research, but am just wondering how likely it is.
I don't think the doctor was trying to scare you by warning you--he does have to report all pertussis to the health department, by law.

Pertussis isn't rare, so I wouldn't be surprised if it came back positive. But a lot of other things cause coughs too, so I wouldn't be surprised either way.

When my daughter had pertussis, I gave her high doses of sodium ascorbate. It really helped. The antibiotics they'll push on you if he has it do not help pertussis--they only shorten the contagious period, and a lot of people say they make things worse.
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#7 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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It does sound like it could be WC. I would really question them having had a death due to WC though. That sounds like a scare tactic. Even when we had an outbreak and all my kids had it only 1 child died in the state. So I would really question that.

Just give lots of sodium ascorbate to gut tollerance. I found these great drinks that had it in it, can't remember now. Its a powder you put in water. But you should know that the culture is not 100% accurate either. They didn't even bother with my kids.

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#8 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 04:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by waiflywaif View Post
Pertussis is back on the rise. The vax doesn't last forever (assuming you agree that it works at all) so there are plenty of adults who have it. I'd get treatment if you can.
Back? It never left; I see the increase in diagnosis as being related to the promotion of the adult vax schedule. History demonstrates that "outbreaks" and vaccination campaigns often mysteriously happen at the same time. Pertussis has often been misdiagnosed as asthma or bronchitis; the narrow time line (two weeks from onset of cough) for testing for pertussis contributes for this. There is no treatment for pertussis other than vitamin C (sodium ascorbate), though if the subject has breathing difficulties a hospital can help with that, of course. Anyhoo...Antibiotics will not be helpful after the onset of symptoms as the bacteria (for which the antibiotics are given) has already produced enough toxin to make the subject ill. I would question the death too; not because it cannot happen, but Drs often make up death to support their point. I would check with your Health Department to confirm the death. Also, pertussis is a reportable disease; the Dr has to report a known case. If the HD calls you, you do not have to talk to them. As for antibiotics making things worse... "The antibiotic used for whooping cough is erythromycin, which indiscriminately kills gut flora and other toxin producing bacteria in the body.... If you give antibiotics to a child who has substantial levels of gram negative bacteria in their gut flora and who are also processing whooping cough endotoxin via the liver and antibodies in the blood, the antibiotics will cause massive general bacterial die-off....These other bacteria release their toxins into the body as well, placing a huge amount of extra stress on the liver and on the antibodies in the blood." (JALP 110). WC 93. [I can't make paragraphs today; wonky computer.]

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#9 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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It does sound like it could be WC. I would really question them having had a death due to WC though. That sounds like a scare tactic. Even when we had an outbreak and all my kids had it only 1 child died in the state. So I would really question that.

Just give lots of sodium ascorbate to gut tollerance. I found these great drinks that had it in it, can't remember now. Its a powder you put in water. But you should know that the culture is not 100% accurate either. They didn't even bother with my kids.
Yep!
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#10 of 24 Old 10-01-2008, 04:59 PM
 
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I know someone who just went through WC with her kids recently. I don't think they cultured it though, so it's possible it wasn't, but she was pretty certain it was. She used SA and onion poultices on the chest, and they got through it fine.
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#11 of 24 Old 10-02-2008, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you all so much for the info!!!

I was already loading him up on the vit C and will continue doing so. We should get the results back by Fri. I will keep you all posted. My dh remembered a homeopathic remedy we had from our naturopath back in Atlanta. Gave him one dose and already tonight he's coughing much, much less. We also are running a warm-mist humidfier in his room.

Christine - mama to my 4 boys
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#12 of 24 Old 10-02-2008, 01:22 AM
 
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what was the home remedy?

Is there a sticky or something on home remedies on Mothering... Those are soooo important to get down on paper.
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#13 of 24 Old 10-04-2008, 09:16 PM
 
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My chiro showed me how to pound on their back to help the phlegm come up. It doesn't hurt them and it makes it feel good for them. If you have a non vax friendly chiro around I would ask them about it.

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#14 of 24 Old 10-04-2008, 09:28 PM
 
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what was the home remedy?

Is there a sticky or something on home remedies on Mothering... Those are soooo important to get down on paper.
I agree with all of that. I'm curious about the remedy, too...good to keep these things on hand just in case.

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#15 of 24 Old 10-04-2008, 09:32 PM
 
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My favorite Whooping Cough site:

http://www.whoopingcough.net/welcome.htm

:SaHM to 3 *DD* DD2 * DS
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#16 of 24 Old 10-04-2008, 10:13 PM
 
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I've thankfully never encountered whooping cough (yet). but I'vehad my fair share of battles with the croup.heres what works for us, maybe they'll help you out some...
-cool mist humidifier w/ eucalyptus oil in the water
-bowl of hot water w/ eucalyptus oil right in fromt of the face, when breathing is difficult
-ivy syrup, it really does help! it soothes and relaxes the bronchial(spelling?) tubes

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#17 of 24 Old 10-05-2008, 09:20 PM
 
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Back? It never left; I see the increase in diagnosis as being related to the promotion of the adult vax schedule. History demonstrates that "outbreaks" and vaccination campaigns often mysteriously happen at the same time. Pertussis has often been misdiagnosed as asthma or bronchitis; the narrow time line (two weeks from onset of cough) for testing for pertussis contributes for this. There is no treatment for pertussis other than vitamin C (sodium ascorbate), though if the subject has breathing difficulties a hospital can help with that, of course. Anyhoo...Antibiotics will not be helpful after the onset of symptoms as the bacteria (for which the antibiotics are given) has already produced enough toxin to make the subject ill. I would question the death too; not because it cannot happen, but Drs often make up death to support their point. I would check with your Health Department to confirm the death. Also, pertussis is a reportable disease; the Dr has to report a known case. If the HD calls you, you do not have to talk to them. As for antibiotics making things worse... "The antibiotic used for whooping cough is erythromycin, which indiscriminately kills gut flora and other toxin producing bacteria in the body.... If you give antibiotics to a child who has substantial levels of gram negative bacteria in their gut flora and who are also processing whooping cough endotoxin via the liver and antibodies in the blood, the antibiotics will cause massive general bacterial die-off....These other bacteria release their toxins into the body as well, placing a huge amount of extra stress on the liver and on the antibodies in the blood." (JALP 110). WC 93. [I can't make paragraphs today; wonky computer.]
very true! i'd add that if they do give antibiotics then you (royal you) need to replenish the gut flora and bacterial balance by taking acidophilus and/or L reuteri.
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#18 of 24 Old 10-09-2008, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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believe it or not - we still don't have the results back...grrr...

there was a 'miscommunication' b/t the lab and the doc regarding amount of days for the culture. My son is basically asymptomatic at this point. My dh called and halted the blood test after we found out it was to be sent to a 'special' lab.

Christine - mama to my 4 boys
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#19 of 24 Old 10-10-2008, 12:19 PM
 
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My dh called and halted the blood test after we found out it was to be sent to a 'special' lab.
Thanks for the update...not sure what this means though? What special lab?

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#20 of 24 Old 10-10-2008, 02:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shirada View Post
My favorite Whooping Cough site:

http://www.whoopingcough.net/welcome.htm
That doc has been saying WC is still epidemic since the 1970's. For a couple of decades there, he was one of the only people on earth who understood that high vax uptake doesn't eliminate the organism.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/310/6975/299

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7563/352

Quote:
EDITOR—Harnden et al, with the help of a recently available blood test, have gone some way to confirm that whooping cough is still about.1 Since 1977, I have, with the help of my practice colleagues, been recording every clinically diagnosable case of whooping cough (based on a minimum of three weeks of paroxysmal coughing). This year so far we have seen six cases in a practice of 11 000. In 2002 we recorded 44 cases. Ten had blood specimens tested; nine were positive and the 10th was lost. Twenty three had pernasal swabs taken; 14 were positive. This small practice was responsible for 5% of all whooping cough notifications in England and Wales in 2002. This surely cannot be because there is more whooping cough where I work.
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#21 of 24 Old 10-10-2008, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the update...not sure what this means though? What special lab?
not sure - they didn't say
my dh didn't want to take chances that it was being sent to the CDC or something like that

Christine - mama to my 4 boys
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#22 of 24 Old 10-10-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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Natural treatment, herbs such as Andrographis, Echinacea, Cats Claw, Withania and Sundew are useful examples. The cough continues long after the bacteria are dead. This is due to the hook-shaped bacterial which lodges in the respiratory tract and continues irritating. At this stage, more demulcent and anti-spasmodic herbs are useful. These may include Marshmallow, Ribwort, Thyme and Sage. Another aid in eliminating these hooked-on bacteria can be lemon, ginger and honey drinks.
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#23 of 24 Old 10-11-2008, 04:54 AM
 
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If I recall correctly from my lab rat days, the sample would be sent to the state health dept. At least in IA/IL they are the ones who run all the tests so they can keep track of the numbers. But then we didn't have any blood work for WC, only a nasopharengial swab like one would get for the flu.

And researching the MN health dept site (just the first one I came across, no special reason for choosing MN) says that there isn't a blood test for pertussis. I would call and request a copy of your sons records immediately, if for no other reason than to know exactly what tests they ordered.

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#24 of 24 Old 10-14-2008, 02:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shirada View Post
My favorite Whooping Cough site:

http://www.whoopingcough.net/welcome.htm
Interesting for the sound bytes, but I am overall unimpressed by the vax-pushing and complete ignorance of the effects of antibiotics already explained by Emmaline II.

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