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#1 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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RE: GARDASIL

I'm from Canada, where my provincial government has just implemented a mass HPV for all girls in Grade 7. It's not mandatory - yet.

I have been doing ALOT of reading on the subject and the most confusing thing I come up with is that they studied less than 1200 "young" girls and followed them for only 18 mos afterwards. And the handful of studies available were funded or partially funded by Merck. They've only been formally studying the drug for 4-5 years for goodness sake!

I don't understand how they can definitively say that Gardasil prevents cervical cancer by preventing the HPV virus when the average age for cervical cancer is 48 yrs old? At most they should be saying "Gardisil provides protection from four strains of HPV for 5 yrs and possibly longer and we believe two of those strains of HPV to be responsible for 70% of all cervical cancers."

Let's assume the vaccine was given to a population of 12 year olds 4 years ago. They will not know if the vaccine has been effective as a cancer preventative in that group of girls for another 30 years+.

The other thing I was wondering and am still researching is what strains of HPV can lie dormant for years. I have read of HPV dormancy - I'm not sure of the strains, but how does a dormant case of HPV figure into the sudies? When they check these kids 10 years from now, how many will be counted as "uninfected" when in actuality the HPV is lying dormant in their systems?

So why are they allowed to claim this? As far as I have read, there are no definitive studies on the causality between HPV and cervical cancer. It is only suspected. And the reason that it is suspected is because certain strains of HPV are *always* found in cervical cancer patients. But there have been no actual causality studies. While I admit it's suspicious, scientifically speaking it's a joke to make a blanket statement without the studies to back it up.

This drug has been fast-tracked and is I think it's indeed compulsory in some states [not in Canada - yet]. To make this vaccine mandatory and declare that you cannot go to school unless you have been vaccinated against a sexually transmitted diesease is egregious and the studies are very thin data on which to base a program of mass vaccination.

They want to give this to my 12 year old daughter in conjunction with dTap [Tetanus, Diptheria, Acellular Pertussis] when I believe Merck has only one trial on the safety of administrating the HPV vaccine along with other vaccines. And that is with HepB. There are 18 other "common" vaccines that have not been studied for administration along with Gardisil from what I've read.

My daughter's health is not open for experiment and I am not on board with this HPV vaccination at all, but am open to input and advice.

I was going to allow the dTap - but now I'm even wondering about that. Why does she need this at 12? Are there many teens that get Pertussis? Is it a "real" risk? And Diptheria? I think at 12 - and having had all of her baby shots and pre-school shots... I think she should be "good-to-go". Is there evidence that someone can point to that would support the reasoning behind giving the dTap to pre-teens?

I've read that the reccommended Diphtheria booster is 10 years after the pre-school. If she had this at 5 years old, that's only been 7 years.

I'm confused and would really value some input.
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#2 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 01:22 PM
 
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Well, for starters, Welcome to MDC!

So far as I know, there are no vaccinations which are required in Canada, they are all "recommended". You can choose which vaccines and when to give them, or choose (as most of us on this board have) to give none at all. I believe there are two provinces which require you to fill out an exemption to attend school, but NS isn't one of them so I'm not sure.

At 12, your daughter is at very little risk for harmful effects from Pertussis (it's most dangerous before 6mo) and the vaccine itself is highly ineffective.

Diptheria is not one I would consider unless I was travelling in a third world country.

I agree that HPV has been fast tracked and no daughter of mine will ever received it.

The reason they want to give her another shot is that the vaccines are not effective long term and must continually be updated to maintain immunity, vrs. actually catching the disease and gaining a lifelong immunity.

I would definitly not do any shots until you are 100% confident and comfortable with them.

Hope that Helps!

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#3 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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You are right to question the long term safety and efficacy of Gardasil, as no independent, long term studies have been done. In essence, the girls being vaccinated now are lab rats, and whatever data we can glean from their circumstances will be added to our understanding of how the vaccine works.

I would never allow my child to be vaccinated against something as relatively harmless and common as HPV. And I say this as a person who had a cancerous lesion removed from her cervix at the age of 23. With regular Pap smears and prompt medical treatment, cervical cancer is very much preventable and treatable.

Remember too that a healthy immune system will often remove HPV entirely from the body, given enough time. It is not dormant but nonexistent...at least, we cannot detect it with tests. So then how can we distinguish between patients in whom Gardasil was effective and patients who simply have a working immune system? We can't.

P.S. My cervical cancer was not, as far as we know, caused by HPV. All tests for the virus were negative, yet I had a lesion large enough to be visible to the naked eye. In my opinion this vaccine is utter bunk.

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#4 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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Oh yeah, and DTaP seems to be one of the most highly reactive vaccines around. It's associated with encephalitis in infants and has a huge number of VAERS reports tied to it. It's also ineffective against pertussis infection, and even if you get the vaccine if you're exposed to tetanus you still need a tetanus shot, and diphtheria is rare in the US and also treatable by modern means, so...no. We'll be skipping that one too.

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#5 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 02:01 PM
 
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Just want to throw in my two cents about guardasil because I'm one of the girls they tried to convince. I was 18 so old enough to make my choice, but I said NO WAY! They really have not studied the vaccine enough for it to be deemed safe, and I've heard of some scary reactions.

At 12 I wouldn't worry about pertussis. Diptheria only if you travel a lot. I do think tetanus shots are a good idea because accidents happen. But I'd just do the separate booster.

Certainly don't do anything you're not comfortable with.
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#6 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes that info is helpful, thank you.

One other item of not that I've read about Gardasil is that there is some concern that other strains of HPV may be exascerbated and may end up having an exaggerated disease process, so in protecting [if indeed it does] against 2 strains of HPV that supposedly cause cancer are we exposing our daughters to an even higher risk of the other strains. I've also noted in my reading that some professionals believe that the other strains of HPV will mutate and develop resistance across the board.

There is absolutely NOTHING in my reading of both the pros and cons, that would compel me to allow my daughter to receive Gardasil at this point. And you might be interested to know that there is a line in the literature that came home with my daughter that I find quite shameful and bordering on intimidating, especially to mothers who aren't educated on the vaccine and may be from a low socio-economic background:

IF YOUR DAUGHTER DOES NOT RECEIVE THE VACCINE THIS YEAR, SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RECEIVE IT FOR FREE IN FUTURE YEARS.

Look, I don't care if I must pay for it if it ever came down to me accepting it. But that statement is designed to convey a sense of urgency and will most definitely be one of the things responsible for at least some people checking the YES box.

I don't think I'll authorize the dTap either. She's a healthy kid, I think I'll keep her that way. Are there any reports of adverse effects with the dTap pre-teen booster? Where might I find literature on this specific booster set, as opposed to the baby shots?

Thanks again
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#7 of 7 Old 10-04-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
Oh yeah, and DTaP seems to be one of the most highly reactive vaccines around. It's associated with encephalitis in infants and has a huge number of VAERS reports tied to it. It's also ineffective against pertussis infection, and even if you get the vaccine if you're exposed to tetanus you still need a tetanus shot, and diphtheria is rare in the US and also treatable by modern means, so...no. We'll be skipping that one too.
IA.

I would definitely think twice about the DTaP. Keep in mind that getting the vax doesn't mean that she won't get pertussis (or perhaps she already had it but got another diagnosis like bronchitis). Pertussis doesn't seem to go anywhere.

I'm 21, and I refused to get the Td. Why? I thought it was kind of pointless. In the event that I did step on a nail or something (even if I did that it wouldn't guarantee that I'd get tetanus), I'd rather just get a megadose of Vitamin C than vax or immunoglobulin.
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