Pertusis fear & DTaP frustration. How did you decide? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 21 Old 10-28-2008, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
amberg007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My dd is 5 weeks old and we already know that we are not vaxing at 2 mths. We most likely will choose to not vax at all but I am feeling quite frustrated about DTaP. Pertusis is the only disease that I may be able to justify vaxing for since it can be fatal for infants and is actually present current day. The fact that I can only get it with 2 other completely un-necessary vaxes is driving me crazy! Can anyone make me feel better about skipping DTaP? How did you decide??
amberg007 is offline  
#2 of 21 Old 10-28-2008, 04:23 PM
 
japonica's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada-->Australia
Posts: 979
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Sorry I don't have the time to post the links right now, but start researching through the pertussis/WC threads here and you'll find a lot of good info...

Neither of my kids have received any vaxes, including for pertussis. From what I recall, it takes until 6 months to receive full immunity from the series anyway and then the most dangerous time has already passed. Plus, it's one of the most reactive vaxes out there and is really questionable in terms of efficacy. It also does NOT prevent transmission...

Someone posted some reassuring stats a few weeks ago about hospitalizations and death rates by age and you could see for yourself that it is not as severe as medical officials make it seems (ie. that pertussis=death).

Do some reading and hopefully you'll feel more comfortable with your decision.

BTW, I was vaxed for pertussis as a child and caught it anyway, so that also helped me make my decision about it.

Mother to DD#1  s/b @40w 2003 for unknown reasons; DD#2   9.5 years old; DS  6 years old 
  Why are daughters protected but not sons?
 
 
 
  
japonica is offline  
#3 of 21 Old 10-28-2008, 04:32 PM
 
peainthepod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chasing sanity
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reading What causes the DTaP scream? pretty much cemented my decision not to touch this one with a ten-foot pole. That, and knowing that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission, might not even work half the time, and is so, so reactive. Just search the VAERS database for DTaP reactions and you'll scare yourself silly.

Then I started reading about tetanus and realized I wasn't sure why we even vaccinate for tetanus, since it doesn't confer immunity and if you are seriously exposed to it, you still need a tetanus shot(!). More discussion in this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=983159

And my understanding of diphtheria is that it's rare in the US and that modern cases are generally very mild and treatable, especially in children who have access to adequate nutrition and clean water.

So, we have a combo vaccine designed to prevent three diseases that are either milder than the CDC will admit (pertussis and diphtheria) or exceedingly, exceedingly rare in healthy children (tetanus), that is highly reactive and known to cause brain damage in vaccinated children (encephalitis, for instance), and that doesn't even prevent transmission but is designed to lessen the body's response to poisons produced by the pathogens.

So I'm supposed to inject my children with poison in hopes that it will prevent a reaction to other poisons in the unlikely event that they are someday infected...yeah, no. Not a chance.

P.S. I, too, was vaxed for pertussis as a baby and caught it anyway. What a scam.

Loving wife partners.gif and mama to my sweet little son coolshine.gif (Fall 2008) and a beautiful baby girl babyf.gif(Fall 2010)

 

When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty. --George Bernard Shaw

peainthepod is offline  
#4 of 21 Old 10-28-2008, 04:33 PM
 
kriket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Plus if your LO is 5 weeks now, he should be ok. I remember reading the spring and summer were purtussis season. Its one of the only vaxes that I am thinking about, and only because I am having a may baby.

Correct me if Im wrong, I am still doing research!

I'm crunchy... Like a Dorito.
Mama to Sprout jog.gif 4.09 and Bruises babyboy.gif 7.11 handfasted to superhero.gif 9.07

kriket is offline  
#5 of 21 Old 10-29-2008, 11:46 AM
 
Marnica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post
Plus if your LO is 5 weeks now, he should be ok. I remember reading the spring and summer were purtussis season. Its one of the only vaxes that I am thinking about, and only because I am having a may baby.

Correct me if Im wrong, I am still doing research!
You are right, but I still wouldn't get it. My LO was born May 1st and so far so good. Not worth the risk in my opinion.

Also check out the ingredients in all DPaT shots. This was enough for me to say HELL NO!!
http://www.novaccine.com/specific-va...ne.asp?v_id=10

or read how inneffective the DPaT really is: http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ine...x.asp?sv_id=10

And about the risks involved with htis shot:
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ris...x.asp?sv_id=10

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

Marnica is offline  
#6 of 21 Old 10-29-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Multimomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Home
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, we did not vax our younger children with DTP, because our oldest two had very severe reactions, 108º fever with fever reducers, lethargy and seizures.

And the older ones have had pertussis just like their younger siblings. It's a PITA disease, but not really that scary unless you buy the party line that they're going to die.
Nope, they're just going to cough a lot and need a lot of attention. Thankfully, my MIL never vaxed her kids and had already gone through it (heck, she and her siblings had never been vaxed so she grew up knowing how to care for it)

It was harder for my older two kids, since they have special needs as a result of their vaccinations.

Nine kids run.gif and four angel.gif, living and learning all the time

Multimomma is offline  
#7 of 21 Old 10-29-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Pertussis vaccine is highly reactive; THIS is the component to be most concerned about, not the D or T. NO WAY would I give this vaccine.

Breast feeding strengthens your child's immune system, and if he develops a sniffle take some sodium ascorbate for him.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#8 of 21 Old 10-29-2008, 05:28 PM
 
kriket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
Also check out the ingredients in all DPaT shots. This was enough for me to say HELL NO!!
http://www.novaccine.com/specific-va...ne.asp?v_id=10

or read how inneffective the DPaT really is: http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ine...x.asp?sv_id=10

And about the risks involved with htis shot:
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ris...x.asp?sv_id=10
Oh I know, I have plenty of time to consider it. The others I read about and said "nope....nope.....nope" then I read pertussis discription and thought "humm, we'll have to read more"

thanks for the links I will check them out

I'm crunchy... Like a Dorito.
Mama to Sprout jog.gif 4.09 and Bruises babyboy.gif 7.11 handfasted to superhero.gif 9.07

kriket is offline  
#9 of 21 Old 10-31-2008, 02:02 AM
 
hae703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is the one I've been torn about as well, but this is some of the info I've found. First, as another poster mentioned you don't get immunity right away (if you get it at all). Pertussis is most dangerous in young infants under the age of 1, but according to the way the vax work you wouldn't have immunity until at least 6 months old or later if you did them on time.

That said I've read a number of stories from mothers who had infants with the disease even after vaccinating so it seems like it's not that effective of a vaccine to begin with. I also have seen mothers on this board and others talk about the symptoms their little ones had with the disease and most said it wasn't nearly as awful as the doctors make it out to be. I found that a little comforting.

I also looked up the number of cases for my state last year which was I think 177 which still makes the chances of contracting it fairly low.

I'm still not 100% comfortable with our decision to go no vax, but the vaccines scare the crap out of me as well. Some of them are an easy decision, like chicken pox, flu, Hep B and MMR, but others I'm still torn about.

Heather
hae703 is offline  
#10 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 09:19 AM
 
SeaBean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: MD Eastern Shore
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am almost decided against the DTaP too.. but does anyone have info on how to avoid getting pertussis?
Can I somehow boost the baby's immune system enough so if she's exposed, she doesn't develop it?
Luckily she is not in daycare and is mostly at home with me. We do go out to the grocery store, library, etc. And I go to my office once a week while baby stays with sitter. So there are opportunities I guess.
I could not find info on how many cases were diagnosed recently in my state. I only found this "In 1998, there were 63 cases of pertussis in Maryland" Anyone know where I can look for this info?

Mama to two sweet girls!

SeaBean is offline  
#11 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Full Heart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Surronded by Dairy Farms AZ
Posts: 3,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can check the cdcs MMWR and it says for MD that for 2008 there have been 85 cases reported. Thats whats reported of course, consider there are probably many more cases going misdiagnosed or not reported because its so mild.

For me deciding was a no brainer. Its not very reliable vax and even if you gain full immunity it won't be till after the critical time. Thats why they want "herd immunity" so you can't spread it to babies who can't be vaxed. Problem is that the vax wears off by the teen years and you can still transmit it even if you are vaxed. They now have an adult vaccine for WC but getting adults to vax is very unlikely. Its new so I doubt they have studies showing its effectiveness yet. Honestly we've had it and the disease is not that bad. Annoying yes. Now my baby was all of 12 mos old when he got it so he was past the critical time. But still he didn't have it as bad as my toddler did. Probably because he was nursing.

whoopingcough.net has great info. I should just have the link in my siggy I give it out so often. Be sure to watch the video of a coughing fit and listen to the audio clip. Its very accurate of what I experienced with my kids. Only the 2 youngest had the whoop though. The rest just had a cough.

Expecting #9.  Always busy hsing.
Full Heart is offline  
#12 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 10:07 PM
 
catters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I suppose I"m glad I had my son vaxed for DTaP, I'm sitting here with Pertussis, and since I"m pregnant, it's lingering on far longer than it should. Obviously my vax wore off, oh... twenty years ago?! Anyway, DS is good. I assume he'd probably have gotten it if he hadn't been vaxed. I don't really know how I even got it, but alas, here I am. Sucks. At least I'm immunized again!!!

Catherine and B stillheart.gif DS1 (6) biggrinbounce.gif DD (4) loveeyes.gif DS2 (1) drool.gif and expecting #4 shamrocksmile.gif on March 17, 2014.  
catters is offline  
#13 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 10:40 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by catters View Post
I suppose I"m glad I had my son vaxed for DTaP, I'm sitting here with Pertussis, and since I"m pregnant, it's lingering on far longer than it should. Obviously my vax wore off, oh... twenty years ago?! Anyway, DS is good. I assume he'd probably have gotten it if he hadn't been vaxed. I don't really know how I even got it, but alas, here I am. Sucks. At least I'm immunized again!!!
DTaP does not prevent infection or transmission. My son contracted Pertussis when he was two and shared it with me (5.5 months pregnant); we BOTH were up to date on that vax. My case was much worse than his; the first couple of weeks of coughing were really hard then it started getting better. I wasn't as familiar with sodium ascorbate then as I am now. If you are not yet taking it, I'd do so, to bowel tolerance.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#14 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 10:55 PM
 
catters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what's the sodium ascorbate do? I know its a preservative, but how do you take it? Is it in a supplement form? I've never heard of taking this before. I'm just continually drinking hot water with honey, or tea with honey. Lots of honey.... If it works, that would rock. Seriously, I've been coughing since August with no end in sight and as I've had diagnosed pneumonia seven times in my life, I'd really like to avoid any pneumatic complications, especially considering I'm pregnant. I know DTaP doesn't affect infection or transmission, but at least the toxins don't seem to be bothering DS like they are me. Thankfully.

Catherine and B stillheart.gif DS1 (6) biggrinbounce.gif DD (4) loveeyes.gif DS2 (1) drool.gif and expecting #4 shamrocksmile.gif on March 17, 2014.  
catters is offline  
#15 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 11:10 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by catters View Post
what's the sodium ascorbate do? I know its a preservative, but how do you take it? Is it in a supplement form? I've never heard of taking this before. I'm just continually drinking hot water with honey, or tea with honey. Lots of honey.... If it works, that would rock. Seriously, I've been coughing since August with no end in sight and as I've had diagnosed pneumonia seven times in my life, I'd really like to avoid any pneumatic complications, especially considering I'm pregnant. I know DTaP doesn't affect infection or transmission, but at least the toxins don't seem to be bothering DS like they are me. Thankfully.
Guess you don't come here much if you've never heard of treating with sodium ascorbate. Sodium ascorbate is an easily absorbed form of vitamin C. For the mechanics of how it works try health and healing board. It is a powder that you can mix into a drink. I give it to my children at the first sniffle or when my sinuses start to hurt or the glands in my neck start to swell. Even my mainstream SIL uses it after I suggested it for her children that seemed to catch every bug going around.

http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Sodi...5850950&sr=8-1

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
#16 of 21 Old 11-04-2008, 11:18 PM
 
catters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
Guess you don't come here much if you've never heard of treating with sodium ascorbate. Sodium ascorbate is an easily absorbed form of vitamin C. For the mechanics of how it works try health and healing board. It is a powder that you can mix into a drink. I give it to my children at the first sniffle or when my sinuses start to hurt or the glands in my neck start to swell. Even my mainstream SIL uses it after I suggested it for her children that seemed to catch every bug going around.

http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Sodi...5850950&sr=8-1
ahh, of course, Vitamin C! Duh! No, I don't come here much as I am not completely anti-vax and it gets frustrating. But since this pertussis thing is bugging me so much, I've been looking for posts on it. I'm not what I would call "mainstream", but I'm sure many would disagree! lol. Anyway, thanks for the tip! I do tend to use "emergen-C" a lot when I first feel something coming on. DS and DH are much heartier than I! I always hesitate to take any 'extras' when pregnant, but I can see some more vitamin c. I've been chugging extra OJ, mostly because I'm not gaining any weight yet and want the calories. Bleh.... Thanks again!

Catherine and B stillheart.gif DS1 (6) biggrinbounce.gif DD (4) loveeyes.gif DS2 (1) drool.gif and expecting #4 shamrocksmile.gif on March 17, 2014.  
catters is offline  
#17 of 21 Old 11-05-2008, 01:39 PM
 
anyalily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBean View Post
I am almost decided against the DTaP too.. but does anyone have info on how to avoid getting pertussis?
We just had an experience where the husband of a trusted friend (who we let hold LO when she was very young) found out he had pertussis. His wife had held DD the day he started coughing - when the most contagions are present.

She is a nurse and was very good about letting us know and helping us do research. I did my own and found a site for medical professionals to avoid contracting it and it said not to stand closer than 4 or 6 feet to a coughing individual without a mask.

I could be wrong, but I think you need to be coughed on to catch it (or perhaps swap spit).

I am one of those moms who walks the other way when I see someone coughing and I discourage people touching DD's hands and face. That's the best I feel I can do - that, and breastfeeding!

We were lucky - the friend who held my DD tested negative for pertussis AND had a course of antibiotics. My understanding is that antibiotics make it non-contagious but don't stop the infection. Is that right?

Mama to DD luxlove.gif born June 2008 and Wife to my dear Magyar foreign exchange husband. Expecting again in September!joy.gif 
anyalily is offline  
#18 of 21 Old 11-05-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Marnica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anyalily View Post
. My understanding is that antibiotics make it non-contagious but don't stop the infection. Is that right?

That is excatly right!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

Marnica is offline  
#19 of 21 Old 11-05-2008, 02:14 PM
 
midwestmeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central MN
Posts: 1,669
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Awesome discussion and fantastic links- thanks MDC mamas!!! :

Megan~ mama to Cecilia (9/1/04) Carl (11/19/06) Vivian (9/10/09) & spring 2011 baby.
midwestmeg is offline  
#20 of 21 Old 11-05-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: california
Posts: 1,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
because the pertussis vaccine wasn't complete until 6 months anyway that was 6 months right there beyond my control.
wait another 6 months and we're already in a better place age- wise for treating WC

WC still worries me a bit. my ds in 13 months. it sounds like it can be brutal to deal with and a looooong illness.

but.... i have asked parents i know who don't vax and i've heard lots of different stories. some have never had WC and their kids are 20 years old. some have older children who were vaxed and they still got WC and gave it to unvaxed sibs. it feels like a crapshoot to me.

personally, i'll take my risk with the WC. brain swelling and a vax reaction i'm not so interested in. i have heard from too many moms who did the shots about the vax reaction. the crying and the "scream". sorry but that does not sound ok to me!

if we did get WC we would do whatever treatment made sense at the time. sounds like SA for the most part and ABX to stop the spread. i think the height of WC season is march-september so we may be out of it for a bit anyway.

OP- you might want to read How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor

good book w/ lots of common sense advice.
stickywicket67 is offline  
#21 of 21 Old 11-05-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Emmeline II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickywicket67 View Post

if we did get WC we would do whatever treatment made sense at the time. sounds like SA for the most part and ABX to stop the spread. i think the height of WC season is march-september so we may be out of it for a bit anyway.

OP- you might want to read How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor

good book w/ lots of common sense advice.
ABX? Why would you compromise your dc's immune system when they are fighting an illness, by giving them drugs that provide them no benefit?

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
Emmeline II is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off