Workshop #3 - Baby’s Early Years; Circumcision - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 60 Old 07-09-2008, 06:22 PM
 
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I was thinking about how dh might feel about the discusion of circ. He was all for not circing, but I wondered if it made him feel bad in a way, because he is circ'd. He said that it didn't, because the only other person who he really cared about what they thought about his penis obviously didn't have any problem with it, since we have three chilren. Now there's logic for you.

I does seem though that circ'd men do seem to have a harder time accepting or supporting having intact sons. I've heard the comment about wanting the son to look like him, not be laughed at in the locker room, not have a woman run screaming from the room, etc. But I wonder if there isn't a bit of a feeling that if they keep their son intact, then they are saying that there is something wrong with their penis? So sometimes I think it can be a very delicate situation when approaching a man about keeping their son intact.

 
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#32 of 60 Old 07-09-2008, 09:40 PM
 
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How do you handle people who have had their children circ'ed? I'd like to get the info out there, but at the same time I think it is pretty hard to give the info and not make the parents feel like I think they are horrible people or make them defensive. Its a done deal, and for family and good friends I have to live with them and new aquaintances I don't want to leave a bad first impression. Its really hard because I feel very strong about MGM, but at the same time beating up someone for something that is done and likely was done because of misinformation or lack of info, doesn't seem very productive. But on the same note, people wont be better informed if society doesn't learn the facts. Any ideas from you wise folks?
I just want to add this is a very good point. My son is circed, and I don't feel bad for making that decision. We are pregnant again, and once we find out what we are having we will have to make that decision again. I don't know at this point what it will be. What I want is more information on BOTH the pros and cons of circing. What I find off putting are really strong opionions which make parents feel bad for the decision they make. I understand those opinions being posted in the anticirc pages, that is definatly the place for them. But if I ask for info I don't want a lot of "circing is going to destroy your relationship with your son" type of stuff, which is mostly what you get. So I guess my point is, if you want to get the info out there, get both sides, do it gently and don't make people feel like they did something wrong for making a decision that might not be agreable to you. And this wasn't aimed at anyone specific, just chiming in. Everyone here sound like wonderful, caring and kind people, and I applaud you for your convictions and beliefs.
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#33 of 60 Old 07-09-2008, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just want to add this is a very good point. My son is circed, and I don't feel bad for making that decision. We are pregnant again, and once we find out what we are having we will have to make that decision again. I don't know at this point what it will be. What I want is more information on BOTH the pros and cons of circing. What I find off putting are really strong opionions which make parents feel bad for the decision they make. I understand those opinions being posted in the anticirc pages, that is definatly the place for them. But if I ask for info I don't want a lot of "circing is going to destroy your relationship with your son" type of stuff, which is mostly what you get. So I guess my point is, if you want to get the info out there, get both sides, do it gently and don't make people feel like they did something wrong for making a decision that might not be agreable to you. And this wasn't aimed at anyone specific, just chiming in. Everyone here sound like wonderful, caring and kind people, and I applaud you for your convictions and beliefs.
Crissy, thank you for your honesty. I often hear parents say that they just didn't have much information and the hospital didn't make a big deal out circumcision, it's hard to find good information at times. Please do visit The Case Against Circumcision forum here at MDC and feel free to ask and look at resources there. I think you'll find the answers your looking for.
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#34 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 12:43 AM
 
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How do you handle people who have had their children circ'ed? I'd like to get the info out there, but at the same time I think it is pretty hard to give the info and not make the parents feel like I think they are horrible people or make them defensive. Its a done deal, and for family and good friends I have to live with them and new aquaintances I don't want to leave a bad first impression. Its really hard because I feel very strong about MGM, but at the same time beating up someone for something that is done and likely was done because of misinformation or lack of info, doesn't seem very productive. But on the same note, people wont be better informed if society doesn't learn the facts. Any ideas from you wise folks?
It's a real struggle. I have a hard time setting aside my personal revulsion at circumcision to understand that a great many people don't know that it's a terrible thing to do to a child. It's so culturally ingrained. I was a sick and hospitalized small child. I remember enough about that experience to have a deep distrust of the medical community. It's been a blessing in disguise as it has made me a very educated consumer of medical services. I would never do something just because it was suggested or recommended by medical staff without doing my own research. I have to remind myself that most others don't have that background and do have a genuine trust of the medical advice they are given.

I thought circ was a bad idea the first time I learned what it was. For many people, it's their "normal" so they go along with it. Compounded by a medical profession that asks "Are you having him circumcised?" or "When are you having him circumcised?" instead of "Are you leaving him intact?"...and one is led to believe that circ is the thing to do. Full consent of what the procedure involves is not given and the real risks and negative side effects are not revealed. It cannot remotely be called informed consent when a mother signs the form.

In a culture that is so immersed in circumcision, it's easy to see how people go along and do it.

It will change as more and more people learn and those of us who know are responsible for teaching those who don't. I think the best audience is the youth and those who have not had children yet.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#35 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 12:53 AM
 
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Well, for me, circumcision wasn't really an option. The government stopped paying for it back in the 70's. I've never seen an adult circ'd penis IRL. (I was born in 1980) I remember someone asking me if my first boyfriend (who I was sleeping with) was circ'd and not knowing the answer.

I've worked in daycare since 2002, and knew that 99% of boys are intact these days (I've changed diapers for 5 circ's out of maybe 50 kids. And that majority of those were religious) Plus, circ's penises always looked shrunk and small and scared to me.

DF is intact (obviously) and didn't understand why I even bothered learning about circ. It wasn't something we were asked about. To have a circ done here, you need to arrange it before the baby is born with the one doctor who will still do them, pay $350 out of pocket....

DF is good with me using him as an example of how good it is to be intact. And how it doesn't matter what Daddy looks like. He doesn't know if his father is circ'd or not (we think likely yes, but aren't sure) or either of his brothers. (that one is way up in the air.)

My biggest concern is those who still don't get it. My Best friends brother is one of the first boys to be left intact, and I think they must have been given instructions to retract as he and several friends were circ'd at 4-5 because of problems. He's TTC right now, so I wait til they get pregnant. I have another friend who thinks circ'd penises are "cleaner" and is TTC. I'll hit her up with videos and info when she gets pregnant too.
I would like to offer a different approach. Don't wait until they are pregnant. It seems that there is a flood of "advice" when a woman is pregnant - a lot of it outdated and not appealing to the newly pregnant lady. I think people tend to ignore this sort of advice.

I think the time to get people thinking is before they have any vested interest in the information. They don't have a real live baby to be thinking about and they can get the details in a non emotional manner, digest the facts and form an opinion about it.

I have attended the Genital Integrity Awareness demonstration in Washington DC for the last two years. It's amazing how receptive to the information the youth are as well as people who don't have children yet. I spoke to many young people who were not defensive (even if they were circ'd themselves). They wanted the info and they were intrigued and they said they would really think about this when it came time to have their own child.

I think planting the seed of "circumcision is a decison you will be faced with and it's one that will impact your child for the rest of his life and effect his sexual partner as well" it gets them thinking. And if you get them thinking before, they can't really be hit with the question for the first time in a hospital post partem when they are not in any shape to be making a decision of that magnitude!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#36 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 04:14 AM
 
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Hi! I'm the mom of two young boys (3 yo and 9 mos old). My first son is circ'ed, my second is not. When I found out my first was a boy, I decided not to circ. My mom was in support of non-circ, my husband was riding the fence, and all my friends felt I should circ. I rode the fence and did a crappy job of researching the topic. I really only knew mainstream. The day I delivered, I still didn't know what to do. I was scared to, and scared not to. A family member urged me to circ, saying he'd get infected and I'd regret it. My husband began urging me to agree. So, I agreed. I knew deep in my heart I shouldn't, and I cried as I signed the form and handed him over. I *heard* what the doc said about him not feeling a thing, but I *knew* she was wrong. I sobbed the entire time he was gone getting circed, and when they returned my newborn to my arms, I knew I'd made a mistake. Everytime I removed his diaper, I cried. As if to add insult to injury, he has had so much irritation and redness with the circ even 3 years later.

When I found out I was pregnant with another boy, I decided not to circ and stick to my guns. I feared the difference between the two boys, but a mom here on MDC explained that the best way I can tell the boys they're different is that "mommy and daddy learned some new information between your births, and we learned it's no longer okay to circ." I hope it never becomes an issue, but I will never regret not circ'ing even if it does.

This past winter, my baby had a bad ear infection and his family doc was out of town. He was inconsolable for some time, so we made the decision to go to our local ER, fearing a ruptured eardrum. I was as respectful as could be, and they were completely dead and quiet there that night. Still, as I answered their questions and began to let them know he wasn't vax'ed or circ'ed, I visibly watched them change their attitudes. The doctor, once he appeared in the room, was arrogant, rude, and horrific in his treatment. I was very much so mocked and discriminated against for my choices. When informed that my baby is not circ'ed and he did NOT have the right or authorization to retract his foreskin, the doctor mocked me and said, "Oh, and why's that?!?!" Dumbfounded by his treatment, I was sent home without any answers and a bill - he refused to bill it as an emergency and therefore our insurance refused to cover it (despite my son being less than 6 mos old!).

The next day, I wrote a 3 page letter to every person I could think of in the hierarchy of that hospital. I informed them of many statistics on circumcision and expressed my extreme dismay. I did hear back from the hospital, but it was too late for what was said. I was reminded once again of how so many doctors can make you feel like a *bad* parent for questioning their authority and knowledge. I'm saddened by the mainstream opinions on circumcision and the attitudes which are deemed acceptable by arrogant, rude doctors viewing careful parents as careless.

 

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#37 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 10:17 AM
 
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This past winter, my baby had a bad ear infection and his family doc was out of town. He was inconsolable for some time, so we made the decision to go to our local ER, fearing a ruptured eardrum. I was as respectful as could be, and they were completely dead and quiet there that night. Still, as I answered their questions and began to let them know he wasn't vax'ed or circ'ed, I visibly watched them change their attitudes. The doctor, once he appeared in the room, was arrogant, rude, and horrific in his treatment. I was very much so mocked and discriminated against for my choices. When informed that my baby is not circ'ed and he did NOT have the right or authorization to retract his foreskin, the doctor mocked me and said, "Oh, and why's that?!?!" Dumbfounded by his treatment, I was sent home without any answers and a bill - he refused to bill it as an emergency and therefore our insurance refused to cover it (despite my son being less than 6 mos old!).

The next day, I wrote a 3 page letter to every person I could think of in the hierarchy of that hospital. I informed them of many statistics on circumcision and expressed my extreme dismay. I did hear back from the hospital, but it was too late for what was said. I was reminded once again of how so many doctors can make you feel like a *bad* parent for questioning their authority and knowledge. I'm saddened by the mainstream opinions on circumcision and the attitudes which are deemed acceptable by arrogant, rude doctors viewing careful parents as careless.
It really is too bad people have to go through stuff like this. I work in the medical field, and I think the biggest thing it has taught me is to never trust everything a physician says. There will always be dumb, ignorant people out there, and we are all our own best advocate. My son is vaccinated, and I would never have a problem with someone who is not. As long as we are well informed of the decisions we are making to do certain things, we should all be respected. And in the end when this sort of thing happens, it is always the child that suffers for someone elses ignorance, argg.
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#38 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 12:08 PM
 
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Towards the end of my first pregnancy I started to research circumcision. I don't remember what I read but I don't think it took long for me to decide it wasn't something I wanted to do. I approached my husband with the information and it didn't take much to convince him. He is a very laid back and reasonable man. He told me years later that he didn't even know he was circumcised till he was out of high school, it simply wasn't discussed. We never asked for family opinions on the subject, it was after all our decision to make.

I had the on call Dr. for my son's birth so my normal Dr. came in the next day to check on us and asked if we wanted it done. To which I replied we had no reasons religious or otherwise to do it so we wouldn't. I wasn't strongly against RIC at this point; I had just decided I wouldn't be doing it to our children. The nurses and Dr.'s were not pushy about it at all.

It was not till after the fact that my mom told me my dad and brother's were not circumcised. I got some disbelief from the few in my husband's family that commented to us but no one really gave us a hard time. It has never been a big deal or greatly discussed. Many outside our family probably assume it was done since he was born in a hospital but we may get questioned if this next is a boy since it will be born at home. I look forward to being able to pass on information in a casual and non attacking manner.

My husband and are are now very strongly against RIC and he is looking to restoring. He didn't know what he lost until I started reading to inform myself. It does not upset him when I talk about (though I try to be very kind ) the downsides to circ because as he says he had no say in the matter when it happened to him.

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#39 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 02:17 PM
 
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But I wonder if there isn't a bit of a feeling that if they keep their son intact, then they are saying that there is something wrong with their penis? So sometimes I think it can be a very delicate situation when approaching a man about keeping their son intact.
It took a while for my DH to be able to admit this, but he has a hard time accepting that his body is messed up and sub-par. This is why he is oppossed to restoring. That and he is afraid that restoring would not make a difference in our sex life and he would feel rejected.
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#40 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 02:19 PM
 
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My ds was left intact because Medicaid doesnt cover it in my state and I wasnt about to pay out of pocket. I am one of those who didnt even THINK about circing-I have a sister and my mom was always a single parent, I just didnt think of penises much, lol. I was barely 18, I didnt have the net, for me it was just totally not thought of. Then when I was in labor the nurse asked if I wanted it done and I said uh...I dunno? Then my mom piped in with it being cleaner or something and I said ok. Even though I hadnt thought about it, I still had the whole *just a little snip* thing in my head. When she said it wasnt covered I said ok, nevermind. lol

I didnt really care either way at the time, so I took him home, cared for it like they told me to (ie dont retract at all-at least they gave me the right info!) and it was a non-issue. Flash forward 18 months and I met my dh. I remember when he changed his diaper for the first time I was bracing myself....he said oh, he isnt circ'd? And I said no. And he said THANK GOD!!! Wasnt exactly the reaction I expected! Dh was circ'd and hated it, had always felt it was a violation of human rights, and didnt want his kids circ'd. I also found out later his younger brothers were not circ'd and had never had issues. Suddenly I was an intactivist! I started researching it more and became more and more thankful that he was left alone!

We are expecting our 2nd son-my dh's first biological son-and of course he will be left intact. It may seem odd but somehow, I think this will be very healing to my dh. 10 weeks to go for another intact penis in the world!

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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#41 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 02:24 PM
 
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It was not till after the fact that my mom told me my dad and brother's were not circumcised.
I have to say-I have heard this so many times!!! From both men and women! I think its funny since so many men's main reason for wanting to circ is so they *look like daddy.* And then they find out that their own fathers werent and they never even noticed! I know my ds didnt notice that his father was circ'd until I told him (he noticed the neighbors son looked different down there and asked me why, so I told him) either.

Cari-mama to Eriq, Lile, Paikea, Kaidyn, and Mieke is here!! 2/9/10
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#42 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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First off, let me say I grew up in Texas. Not exactly the most "progressive" part of the US...especially when it comes to circumcision!

I never gave circ much thought until we found out we were having a boy.

It was never discussed in my family...until we were having a boy, that is. Then all of a sudden everyone had an opinion about it!

As far as I know, DS is the only intact male from both sides of my and DH's families from our grandfathers down! That at least FOUR generations of mutilation!!! (I'm talking semi-immediate families here: my DS's grandparents, great-grands, uncles, great-uncles, & cousins, not distant-extended-type family like your mother's cousin's brother-in-law, etc. )

I guess my first "research" into circ was in Peggy's book Having a Baby Naturally. I read the chapter on circ with my DH and we decided right then and there that was not something we wanted for our precious unborn son. We received staunch criticism/horror/disgust from family when they asked if he would be circ'd and we replied "No". My mom told me that she "had 'been with both' and believe me, he should be circ'd" She also told me that if my sister and I had been boys, we would have been circ'd. That statement opened my eyes to the world of 'intactivism' because it made me realize that my son wasn't the only one who mattered. If no one would have stood up and protected ME from my parent's ignorance, who would stand up and protect other babies from theirs?!

Other family members had little jewels of advice for us too. My aunt (whose sons were both preemies and circ'd said, very sarcastically/snarky, "Well that will be easy to keep clean". My grandmother said "He has to be circ'd! Otherwise he won't be able to pee or um...perform." Such ignorance... After DS was a few weeks old, they stopped bringing it up. It's kind of the elephant in the room now (pun intended ).

The more I learned about circ, the more of an intactivist I became. I have pro-bf/anti-circ bumper stickers on my car, and I try to be outspoken, especially to pregnant moms. Also young adults (like my college-age sister) and teens who are impressionable and open minded, yk?

My latest act of intactivism was yesterday at our LLL meeting where there were several prego new-comers. I introduced myself as Mandy, the intactilactivist. That got a 45 minute discussion going about circ! The pregnant moms said they hadn't even thought about circ, and were very interested in learning about circ, and then later as I was changing DS's diaper, they circled around and asked about intact-ness and intact care. I feel like I really planted a seed! I was so :!!!

Amanda: Christian, wife to musician DH since 2002, mom to intact & vax free "monkey" DS1 since 12/21/06, and "lovey" DS2 5/17/10! WINNER OF THE GOLDEN BIRTH STOOL, APRIL 2010 DDC!
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#43 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 08:05 PM
 
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We're expecting #2 and anticipating a boy this time. I need some resources from your mamas about not circ'ing. I need supplementary materials for DH. He's going to read the current issue of Mothering, but I need some additional sources for him to look at.
Any help would be appreciated.
Please PM me with references.
Thanks mamas!

Summer: crafty mama to 2 little girls and wife to Bob
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#44 of 60 Old 07-10-2008, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We're expecting #2 and anticipating a boy this time. I need some resources from your mamas about not circ'ing. I need supplementary materials for DH. He's going to read the current issue of Mothering, but I need some additional sources for him to look at.
Any help would be appreciated.
Please PM me with references.
Thanks mamas!
Check out The Case Against Circumcision forum. You can post asking for references and check out the forum stickies. The regular posters in the forum have a TON of current information and will be happy to guide you.
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#45 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 12:26 AM
 
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We're expecting #2 and anticipating a boy this time. I need some resources from your mamas about not circ'ing. I need supplementary materials for DH. He's going to read the current issue of Mothering, but I need some additional sources for him to look at.
Any help would be appreciated.
Please PM me with references.
Thanks mamas!
Yes please come visit us in the CAC forum. It might help to know what concerns your DH might have. It would allow us to provide information most compelling to him.
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#46 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 01:26 AM
 
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Someone asked for info on videos of circumcision...

Warning: videos of circumcision can be very disturbing, so viewer discretion is advised. (However, if you are a parent considering circumcising a son, you owe it to him to know how it's done. If you think it'll be too hard to watch, maybe it's not something you'd want your child to actually experience.)

Here is a link to a thread with a video link, a transcription of the video, and discussion, on the Case Against Circumcision forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481025

Here is a link to the Penn and Teller show on circumcision. Raunchy and irreverent - with more than a few four letter words - but full of thought-provoking information, it includes segments of the procedure and much more. Guys seem to really get it with this video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...91532653693892
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#47 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 11:06 AM
 
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I never gave much thought to male circ before I met my husband. I knew what it was, but I had never seen an intact man, and never really gave it much thought. I had studied FGM (female genital mutilation), which includes female circ, in a Human Rights class in college. The practice disturbed me, and I did a lot of research on the subject and ended up making it my term paper topic. However for some reason I never made the connection between FGM and male circ.

When I met my husband (born and raised in the Netherlands), I realized what an amazing thing a foreskin is! Personally, I find the uncircumcised penis far more attractive, not to mention more, ahem, pleasurable. From then on I assumed that if we had any male children they would remain intact. It was not until I found out I was pregnant and began doing research that I learned all of the other reasons behind not circ’ing and when I saw the procedure actually being performed on a newborn, well, that’s when I became an intactavist.

Also, let me just say, I agree with pp who said that waiting until a friend who is TTC is pregnant and then unloading such a highly emotional subject upon her may not be the kindest thing. She may be more easy to sway, but I think that approach come dangerously close to preying upon her precarious emotional state, which is not a very kind or loving thing to do. Do address the subject now, and later. But please don’t spring it upon someone you already know and have the opportunity to discuss it with pre-pregnancy.

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#48 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nerdymom
Also, let me just say, I agree with pp who said that waiting until a friend who is TTC is pregnant and then unloading such a highly emotional subject upon her may not be the kindest thing. She may be more easy to sway, but I think that approach come dangerously close to preying upon her precarious emotional state, which is not a very kind or loving thing to do. Do address the subject now, and later. But please don’t spring it upon someone you already know and have the opportunity to discuss it with pre-pregnancy.
While I agree that it's always better to discuss these issues before someone is pregnant, it's a little puzzling to me to assert that bringing up circumcision DURING pregnancy is victimizing a woman. Most women I know are totally capable of thinking intelligently and researching issues during pregnancy even if there are times that are hormonal. To me, the issue is too important not to bring up -- better to risk upsetting a woman than to have her agree to cut off the most sensitive part of her son's penis at the most vulnerable time of his life!

If you read the "mothers who circed and regretted it" thread in CAC, which is thousands of posts long, you'll see that the common theme is this: "if only someone -- anyone -- had told me during pregnancy what circumcision is and that I didn't have to do it."

Ignorance is not bliss. Circumcision harms not only baby boys but also their bond with their mothers. Holding back from speaking out against circumcision during a friend's pregnancy for fear of upsetting her delicate emotional balance is not doing anyone any favors.

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#49 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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I didn't circumcise my baby boy, and my co-workers wouldn't let me hear the end of it. He'll have all kinds of bladder infections, and problems and he'll just end up having to have it done later on in life.
I finally pointed out to one co-worker that out of her 10 grandkids (7 were boys) 4 of them had problems with their circ and had to have it done again. She finally left me alone.

My husband at first was we HAVE to circ!! by the time the baby came out, he was like, oh my god I can't believe that we do that to baby boys (we being of course our society as a whole)
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#50 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
While I agree that it's always better to discuss these issues before someone is pregnant, it's a little puzzling to me to assert that bringing up circumcision DURING pregnancy is victimizing a woman. Most women I know are totally capable of thinking intelligently and researching issues during pregnancy even if there are times that are hormonal. To me, the issue is too important not to bring up -- better to risk upsetting a woman than to have her agree to cut off the most sensitive part of her son's penis at the most vulnerable time of his life!

If you read the "mothers who circed and regretted it" thread in CAC, which is thousands of posts long, you'll see that the common theme is this: "if only someone -- anyone -- had told me during pregnancy what circumcision is and that I didn't have to do it."

Ignorance is not bliss. Circumcision harms not only baby boys but also their bond with their mothers. Holding back from speaking out against circumcision during a friend's pregnancy for fear of upsetting her delicate emotional balance is not doing anyone any favors.
I didn't mean to say that if a pregnant woman is plannignto circ, you shouldn't bring it up with her! What I was trying to say was that if you know someone TTC who is planning to circ, bring it up immediately. For me atleast, this subject is so upsetting that I feel like crying right now (no kidding), and I would hate for one of my friends to wait until I was expecting to unleash something of this magnitude on me. I would want to know sooner.

I think this is an important issue that friends should talk to friends about. I was just responding to a pp who said she was going to wait until her friends concieved before talking to them about circ.

I hope that clears things up.

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#51 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 04:19 PM
 
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I don't know if we're having a boy, but if we do, he will definitely not be cut. I never thought about it much until becoming pregnant, and I have only seen one intact penis in my life, but it is an issue my husband feels very strongly about. It seems cruel to cut such sensitive skin, without any real reason. I would never think to do it to a daughter; why do it to a son? I can't imagine that he'll spend much time comparing his to his dad's, how often does that really happen?

My husband is circumsised, but his parents regretted it immediately when they saw how sad he was afterwards, and didn't do it to his younger brother. My husband wants to leave our son/s intact, and I totally agree

As for people who have family and/or friends weighing in on the decision, I don't really understand that. How is it any of their business? I cannot imagine anyone asking me if my son was circ'd - family or otherwise. That's just really foreign to me - my family would NEVER ask me such a question. I don't really care what they would say about it - I have no idea if my dad or brothers are circ'd, it's just not something that comes up in conversation.

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#52 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by race_kelly View Post
I does seem though that circ'd men do seem to have a harder time accepting or supporting having intact sons. I've heard the comment about wanting the son to look like him, not be laughed at in the locker room, not have a woman run screaming from the room, etc. But I wonder if there isn't a bit of a feeling that if they keep their son intact, then they are saying that there is something wrong with their penis? So sometimes I think it can be a very delicate situation when approaching a man about keeping their son intact.
It still very much is in my house. Dh is extremely defensive and bigoted - for lack of a better word - about it, and said his sons wouldn't have "anteater" or "elephant trunk" penises. He refuses to learn anything about the issue and I believe it's because it would make him feel badly about himself. His mother SAVED HIS FORESKIN and PUT IT IN HIS BABYBOOK!!!!! I know that last statement was pretty random, but I just remembered that I have my husband's foreskin in a book in my house.

I am so lost as to how to help this situation. I don't know that it needs to be helped necessarily right now, but if I ever get pregnant with another boy . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by suprgrl View Post
It took a while for my DH to be able to admit this, but he has a hard time accepting that his body is messed up and sub-par. This is why he is oppossed to restoring. That and he is afraid that restoring would not make a difference in our sex life and he would feel rejected.
I am never bringing up restoration with my dh - not as things stand in my household right now. When I first learned the truth about circumcision, I suddenly felt like I was repulsed by dh. I hated that fact, but it was true. It wasn't long before I got over that, I do love and accept my husband, it was just that I was - shocked, I guess. In fact, I started a thread about it a long time ago in CAC, where I got either support or reamed out.

There is a video out there that compares how an intact penis works during sex as compared to a circ'd penis. It is compelling video. Dh and I have zero issues in the bedroom. I have been with intact men and can't really recall much of a difference. But that was a loooong time ago!
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#53 of 60 Old 07-11-2008, 09:10 PM
 
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I just watched the Penn and Teller video for the first time, and I think I want a bumper sticker or T-Shirt, or heck, even a billboard with the quote from the video: "Once you see an intact newborn penis, every other circ'd penis just looks wrong". I am not sure if that is the exact wording, but it is absolutely, positively true.

I have a son, and I was so passionate about not circ'ing him. I gave birth to him after a traumatic delivery, and as he was whisked away to be resuscitated the first thing I could think to say was "DON'T CIRCUMCISE HIM!!!!". I wasn't worried about any other possible thing, but that was weighing so heavily on my mind that I screamed it at the doctors and nurses. I had no idea that they didn't do it right there in the delivery room anyway, so they all had a little giggle at me, but I think I made my point.

I am so happy that I know quite a few mamas of baby boys in my area who all get together regularly, and none of them are circ'd. I went to a play group once since DS was born and a mama was changing a baby boy's diaper and he was circ'd. I didn't realize just how emotional the issue had become for me until that moment. I literally wanted to vomit when I saw his poor, scarred, mutilated penis. I had to turn away and I did start to tear up. I just held my boy tight and take comfort in knowing that I would not let his body be cut.

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#54 of 60 Old 07-12-2008, 07:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdymom View Post
I didn't mean to say that if a pregnant woman is plannignto circ, you shouldn't bring it up with her! What I was trying to say was that if you know someone TTC who is planning to circ, bring it up immediately. For me atleast, this subject is so upsetting that I feel like crying right now (no kidding), and I would hate for one of my friends to wait until I was expecting to unleash something of this magnitude on me. I would want to know sooner.

I think this is an important issue that friends should talk to friends about. I was just responding to a pp who said she was going to wait until her friends concieved before talking to them about circ.

I hope that clears things up.
I can see see waiting to talk to someone about it if they are having issues TTC. It's kind of is like rubbing salt in the wounds to talk to them about what they should do when they FINALLY get pregnant. I've seem women just about lose it talking about actually having the baby when they are so desperately concentrating on just getting pregnant.

 
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#55 of 60 Old 07-20-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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I honestly don't know where my thoughts on circ came from. My brothers were both circed, as was my Dad... and yet, I never even considered it as something I would do. I never really heard anything about circing with the exception of a story about one of my uncles. He had to have it redone at age six, and my grandmother recalled to me the memory of him sleeping with his arms way above his head for fear anything would come near the area and cause him anymore of the "worst pain in the world" (his words at six) Even as she told me the story she said it in a very, too bad he went through that, but of course it was necessary... sort of way

When I was with my ex and pregnant for the first time I asked him what he thought about circ and he didn't even know what it was... he was circed but didn't know there was such a thing as a foreskin or that his penis hadn't always been that way... he was 20 years old! I told him I wouldn't do it, he didn't really care either way. I ended up miscarrying that baby however.

After we broke up I got pregnant with my DS. I didn't want to know what gender the baby was. I had the care of midwives and it was just never even really brought up past the initial question on the intake form. They did have plenty of anti-circ literature in the office though.

My DP is intact. He was so happy when we talked about it and I told him T was also intact. I'm pregnant again, due in February and this baby will absolutely be intact regardless of gender

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#56 of 60 Old 07-29-2008, 02:14 AM
 
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I still have a hard time reading about circumcision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiyt View Post
...I grew up thinking that there was no downside to circumcizing...

For me it was very much the opposite. I was convinced that being intact was a risk!! Everyone I knew was circumcised, there had to be a good reason for that! (Right...?) I was given the standard 'reasons' why it was important to circumcise (by the circumcising doctor, go figure ...I feel like a complete idiot for that!). The way I describe it, it was like pressure sales....right down to the close: "it'll cost you more if you wait until after you leave the hospital, because you'll have to take him to a specialist".

I was so broke then, I couldn't afford a candy bar from the vending machine. I was crying my eyes out after the doctor left because I couldn't afford to circumcise, and I thought I was putting my son at risk because of that.

Equally misinformed, my grandmother paid for it.

I feel like I'm making excuses when I explain why I circumcised my first son. I feel ashamed, because I feel like there was no excuse to have missed out on vital anti-circ information; or even to have missed the basic logic of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. I know I made the best decision with the information I had at the time, but it doesn't stop me from feeling horrible.

My second boy is now three weeks old and almost every time he cries I think of my first son being circumcised. I have horrible flashbacks. Sometimes it's remembering holding him before they took him and feeling a conflict between my head ("knowing" circ was 'right') and heart (feeling it was wrong). Sometimes it's remembering his little body heaving from sobbing when they wheeled him back to me. Or worse still; remembering the relief I felt that it was over and we could move on as I tended to his fresh wound. It makes me incredibly sad, and sick to my stomach. I consented to let them torture a little human who I was supposed to protect from harm. I can't help but feeling that I should serve some sort of punishment.

Overall, it's been so horrible for me having learned the truth about circumcision, because ignorance was bliss - for me. It was easier to be ignorant about what I put my baby through. However, without the knowledge that I acquired on the subject, I wouldn't have had the proper tools to protect my next son; who is (thankfully) intact. I am now intensely anti-circ.

MDC has been a launch pad for learning about this, and so many other things. While I'm so grateful to have this site as a parenting tool in my life now; I can't tell you how deeply sorry I am that I didn't find it sooner!!

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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#57 of 60 Old 07-29-2008, 08:46 AM
 
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I wanted to post my story before reading the rest of the thread. Now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
...it's always better to discuss these issues before someone is pregnant, it's a little puzzling to me to assert that bringing up circumcision DURING pregnancy is victimizing a woman...
I agree with everything you said in your post "Quirky"; and I want to add that pregnancy is the time when she'll be more receptive to the information (IMO) because the baby is more 'real' now. It's much easier to dismiss information on a hypothetical baby.

However, I have a couple friends with whom I've discussed circumcision and they don't have kids, or plans for kids yet; and I doubt they'll even consider circ now. And when the time comes that they do have them, if they even THINK about circ'ing their boy, they're going to get a harsh refresher course from yours truly.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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#58 of 60 Old 07-31-2008, 06:43 PM
 
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Hello!

I have one baby boy, he's 18 months and intact. During my first pg I had found out what we were having, a girl, but I didn't believe it....I really thought we would have a boy so I wasn't very sure about circ'ing. I'm not sure if I would have accepted much information about circumcision at that point.

Then of course once having my baby I was much more protective over the things that would happen to he/she so when I did have a boy I just knew I wouldn't do it.

I think getting circumcision info during pg is a must for all mothers just b/c mistakes are made even at gender u/s. I wouldn't want to be prepared for a girl and then be at the hospital and get a boy surprise then have to make an uninformed decision.
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#59 of 60 Old 08-10-2008, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu Razzberri;11805784
[FONT=Comic Sans MS
I agree with everything you said in your post "Quirky"; and I want to add that pregnancy is the time when she'll be more receptive to the information (IMO) because the baby is more 'real' now. It's much easier to dismiss information on a hypothetical baby.

However, I have a couple friends with whom I've discussed circumcision and they don't have kids, or plans for kids yet; and I doubt they'll even consider circ now. And when the time comes that they do have them, if they even THINK about circ'ing their boy, they're going to get a harsh refresher course from yours truly.
[/FONT]
Thanks for this. I am the poster that said I am waiting til they get pregnant to say anything. I am doing that for several reasons. One is that I'm not that close to one of the women, and they are having trouble conceiving, and I don't want to make them discuss it right now if they don't want to. The second is exactly what you say above, I think I will get dismissed if there aren't those Mama hormones in play. (Especially by the other woman, who is a good friend of mine, but it's going to take some doing to get her to listen to my information. She already thinks I"m nuts....)

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#60 of 60 Old 08-14-2008, 02:43 AM
 
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In a case where she's having trouble TTC, I can understand waiting to approach the topic. However, keep in mind that it doesn't have to be about HER baby. You can have the conversation in the general sense of "OMG! I read an article on NBC news website the other day. You'll never believe this!! They put foreskin in face cream!!....Yeah! After I learned that, I got to wondering, and I did some researching..." Make that a platform to launch into conversation about it; bringing up the very best points you can think of on how it's a money making business at the expense of brand new helpless babies; and how the industry relies on the ignorance of society to keep feeding their wallets.

Knowing it's often difficult to approach people about circumcision, I've decided to do what I can to help out. Please check out my thread on the subject.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
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