What to do to counteract effects from mega-doses of antibiotics in a 6 mos old? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi mamas,

My baby was hospitalized over the weekend for suspected meningitis (turned out not to be) and was dosed for 3ish days with what my ER doc friend called 'nuclear' doses of antibiotics. Meningitis treatment levels, via IV. We are home, she has a wicked diaper rash and that's all I can see. But what other effects could result and what should I do if anything to treat her?

Thanks!

What happened was she had a fever of 101ish, some vomiting, just regular viral symptoms, and then her fontanel puffed right up. Apparently this is the only place in the brain/spinal column that lets out pressure so it's a big. freaking. deal. to them. We got stuck in isolation and she was given tons of tests, plus these antibiotics. Halp! She is also on amoxicillin orally this week.
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#2 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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I've seen this one recommended a few times, http://www.florastor.com/

Good luck! And I'm glad your dd doesn't have meningitis!

What do they think caused her fontanel area to swell up?

In love with Dh since 1998. We created Ds (7.1.03), Dd (10.16.06) and Dd (3.16.09).
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#3 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:35 PM
 
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Hey Thismama, sorry to hear about your daughter. Do you have access to a classical homeopath? That would be my first recommendation.

As far as gut healing, there is a whole thread at the top of the forum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071 How old is your baby? Is she still nursing?

Basically, you need coconut oil, cod liver oil, magnesium, probiotics, vit C, zinc. Those are the primary supplements that come to mind, in addition to echinacea. The probiotics to focus on for a baby are bifidum bacteria. And to counter yeast, you want S. boulardii. Lactobacillis is secondary, but important for addressing any antibiotic induced diarrhea.

Vit C would be major for any viral concerns. As well as Vit A and Vit D.

Also, baking soda and lavender essential oil in the bath water. Sprinkle probiotics on the perineal area.


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#4 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks! They don't know what caused it. They gave me a big word diagnosis: transitory viral [insert word meaning increased spinal fluid in her fontanel]. Basically she had a virus, her fontanel swelled up due to spinal fluid inflammation they think, and it passed and her fontanel went back down.

Meanwhile she went through hellish tests and crazy antibiotics. Fabulous.
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Hey Thismama, sorry to hear about your daughter. Do you have access to a classical homeopath? That would be my first recommendation.

As far as gut healing, there is a whole thread at the top of the forum. How old is your baby? Is she still nursing?

Basically, you need coconut oil, cod liver oil, magnesium, probiotics, vit C, zinc. Those are the primary supplements that come to mind, in addition to echinacea. The probiotics to focus on for a baby are bifidum bacteria. And to counter yeast, you want S. boulardii. Lactobacillis is secondary, but important for addressing any antibiotic induced diarrhea.

Vit C would be major for any viral concerns. As well as Vit A and Vit D.


Pat
Thank you! Yes she is nursing. She is 6.5 mos old. Just started solids as well. She had bad diarrhea, it is now infrequent but still diarrhea consistency. She also has a very red diaper rash although it seems to be improving, I have her in sposies and using Zincofax.

I don't have a naturopath but there is a great homeopathy store with a very informed guy. They sell something for infants that is more than just acidopholous, replaces what is meant to be in their guts which is different from adults - this sound right? Didn't get the name but it's in the cooler.
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Thanks! They don't know what caused it. They gave me a big word diagnosis: transitory viral [insert word meaning increased spinal fluid in her fontanel]. Basically she had a virus, her fontanel swelled up due to spinal fluid inflammation they think, and it passed and her fontanel went back down.

Meanwhile she went through hellish tests and crazy antibiotics. Fabulous.
I would go see a CST or chiro to get adjustments also.


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#7 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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chiro + baby kinda freaks me out.
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Thank you! Yes she is nursing. She is 6.5 mos old. Just started solids as well. She had bad diarrhea, it is now infrequent but still diarrhea consistency. She also has a very red diaper rash although it seems to be improving, I have her in sposies and using Zincofax.

I don't have a naturopath but there is a great homeopathy store with a very informed guy. They sell something for infants that is more than just acidopholous, replaces what is meant to be in their guts which is different from adults - this sound right? Didn't get the name but it's in the cooler.

Classical homeopathy is different than acute homeopathy. The first strengthens the vital force and balances underling issues holistically. Acute homeopathy addresses/suppresses acute reactions and symptoms. You'd need a professtional homeopath to address what made this viral illness escalate to such intensity.

Bifidum for infants, but also the S. boulardii and lactobacillis strains of beneficial microbials for healing and countering the antibiotic assault. Otherwise, you are ripe for allergies and asthma. Do I recall that your older daughter has asthma?

She gets bifidum bacteria in breastmilk.

Some would say she needs Nystatin to kill yeast overgrowth. Coconut oil kills yeast overgrowth, naturally, rather than pharmaceutically. It also sets up the gut ph for more good bacteria to grow, due to the medium-chain fatty acids breaking down. Cod liver oil helps with the immune system and inflamatory process. Magnesium helps with neurological hormones and the immune system.


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#9 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:51 PM
 
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chiro + baby kinda freaks me out.
Their adjustments don't need to be manual twisting. We see a chiro which does "Atlas" adjustments with a small mechanical tapper to realign the spinal column.

Cranio Sacral Therapy is minute tactile adjustments.

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#10 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It was very weird because it didn't seem that she was THAT sick. Her fever only got to 101 at home, came down without medication and went back up to 102 the following day in hospital - they gave Tylenol for it there. When febrile she was tired and clingy/cuddly, and would fall asleep just laying on me which was very weird for her. Also irritable. When afebrile she was much like her normal self, perhaps a bit subdued. I noticed the fontanel in the middle of the night, she had vomited once 2 hours before and vomited again 6 hours later. No other vomiting. Infrequent but deep wet cough and chest congestion although minimal runny nose.

But the head... So weird.

The docs also freaked that her head is big and off the charts, and did a head u/s for hydrocephaly. Well, *she* is big and off the charts and it took my nurse plotting her growth info on a chart for them to get them to STFU. And the resident had never heard of yeast being an issue with antibiotics.

She also had a chest xray, a spinal tap, and 3 IV insertions over our 3ish days there, the last and longest lasting of which was in her head. The others fell out. And as I said they pumped her full of antibiotics every 6 hours via IV the whole time we were there, from Sat. night until Tuesday morning.

Everything came back normal, except her chest xray which was 'hazy.' They did it in her bed as I was threatening to leave AMA at the time after all our other tests had returned negative. Since coming home I hear the 'real' chest xray is torture. They attempted a cath too but were unable to insert due to labial fusion, thank god. Did a bag urine test and came back neg for UTI.
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#11 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Their adjustments don't need to be manual twisting. We see a chiro which does "Atlas" adjustments with a small mechanical tapper to realign the spinal column.

Cranio Sacral Therapy is minute tactile adjustments.

Pat
huh, that sounds cool. i should look into it. i'm broke this month but not in january.
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#12 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:01 PM
 
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And the resident had never heard of yeast being an issue with antibiotics.
Choked on this one. Still trying to catch my breath!!

Will continue to read now.


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#13 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:02 PM
 
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Sorry you went to the hospital. It sounds like a horrible experience. Glad you are home.

Nurse, nurse, nurse and add probiotics.


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#14 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Choked on this one. Still trying to catch my breath!!

Will continue to read now.


Pat
LMAO!! Oh yeah the doctor stupid was overwhelming. They also lectured me on cosleeping, which i only shared that I practice by way of saying, "Yes indeed I can watch her at night. I cosleep and noticed her fontanel at 4am." And the misinfo is delivered with such an air of arrogant confidence, and no willingness to hear anything else. With her head size they confidently assured me that indeed it was too big for her body, they had checked, although I said I know it's in proportion. The nurse gave them a graph and only then did they stop talking about hydrocephaly and a brain shunt. Unfortch that was post head u/s.

We have really been through it this week.
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Sorry you went to the hospital. It sounds like a horrible experience. Glad you are home.

Nurse, nurse, nurse and add probiotics.


Pat
Yes, I'm sorry we went now too. Had she had meningitis I would not be sorry. But since she did not, I am very sorry.
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#16 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:06 PM
 
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You've had a ton of good advice here already mama, I just wanted to add one small thing. You said she JUST started on solids? Is there any chance you can ditch the solids for now and just do breastmilk? Personally, I wouldn't want anything else in the way of healing right now and solids have the potential for allergies, sensitivities and also reducing the amount of breastmilk they take in. Is she just self feeding soft foods? If so, she's likely not getting much anyway, so it might not matter.

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#17 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes I can ditch. She was very enthusiastically downing pureed baby foods before this, in hospital she had bm only and didn't seem to miss solids at all. I gave her some sweet potato this morning but she seems quite flexible about solids/no solids.
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#18 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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I honestly wouldn't stress about the "useless" things they did, imagine had one of those come back positive, she could have gotten the help she needed, yk. My son's abnormally large head was TOTALLY ignored by his peds and other specialists...NOT good when your child indeed has hydrocephalus.

ALWAYS better safe than sorry, especially in light of the unusual swelling...

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#19 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I honestly wouldn't stress about the "useless" things they did, imagine had one of those come back positive, she could have gotten the help she needed, yk. My son's abnormally large head was TOTALLY ignored by his peds and other specialists...NOT good when your child indeed has hydrocephalus.

ALWAYS better safe than sorry, especially in light of the unusual swelling...
Well it's hard, you know, because meningitis is a fierce and awful thing. And I did not feel comfortable ignoring the swelled fontanel and the possibility she had it. I honestly felt she did not but of course I had no way of knowing for sure, and I agonized over the consent form for the spinal tap that would start the whole thing.

The tests were very invasive, it was like being tortured by aliens. And the antibiotics are not without negative consequence, they are not just harmless, yk? Especially in such large doses and straight into the bloodstream.

Very difficult decision, this whole thing was.
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Trust. Trust yourself that you followed your heart.


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#21 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, it's hard, coz I've actually been warned against this whole drama. A friend's older child passed a cold to her newborn and a midwife I know told her don't go in if you know where she got the cold coz they will do this meningitis drama. So as soon as they said meningitis and lumbar puncture, I knew we were in the wheel of hysteria. Our sitch was different because of the fontanel, which I couldn't gage how serious a symptom that actually was, seems quite serious but then I was in the hospie with just that one sided perspective with no real info of my own. And time was of the essence if indeed it was the big bad M so I couldn't exactly check out and go home and research til I felt comfy. So... we were in it, and I knew from the start it was probably BS, but I didn't know for *sure* it was BS so we did the whole damn thing. I also didn't know how bad it would be. It was bad.
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There is no "right" answer. Nor "wrong" one.


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#23 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:30 PM
 
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Yes I can ditch. She was very enthusiastically downing pureed baby foods before this, in hospital she had bm only and didn't seem to miss solids at all. I gave her some sweet potato this morning but she seems quite flexible about solids/no solids.
That's great that she seems flexible. You can focus on breastmilk and healing her right now then.

And so sorry you and her had to go through all of this. I know what's it like to be in a situation where you don't have the time and the resources to do the research you need and you have to make the best decision for the knowledge you have (my situation was different, yet very similar). It sucks, especially when you find out that you could have decided differently but didn't have enough info at the time to decide the other way. to you and your DD!

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#24 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pat
That is so nice to be reminded of, thank you. Coz I feel like I did the wrong thing and she was harmed for nothing. Of course I knew my option was to go home and stare at her bumped up head and wonder if I was harming her that way too. *le sigh*
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*

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#26 of 33 Old 12-03-2008, 10:33 PM
 
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Since antibiotics kill the natural flora in the intestines (results in a cold, damp condition that leads to diarrhea), you need to supplement with acidophilus to replace this natural flora. I did this with my 3 year old when she went through several bouts of ear infections (she was 1 1/2 then), and she finally had to take antibiotics. Acidophilus comes in a powdered form in a gel capsule. I mixed one with some applesauce and gave it to her twice a day. She never had diarrhea, or a runny nose (also a result of the system being cooled down from antibiotics).

It would be advisable to seek an acupuncturist who is well educated in herbs. She/he can balance your child's system so that the antibiotics don't cool her down so much that she becomes sick again and has to repeat the course of drugs (this is very common in western medicine). When my daughter had to take antibiotics; after her 10 course of the drug, we put her on an herbal formula to balance her back out. She had been eating too many "cooling" foods which helped cause mucus, which eventually led to all the ear infections. She has never been on antibiotics since, and if she shows signs of another ear infection, we alter her to a more warming diet and put her back on the herbs.

Hope this helps some.
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She had been eating too many "cooling" foods which helped cause mucus, which eventually led to all the ear infections. She has never been on antibiotics since, and if she shows signs of another ear infection, we alter her to a more warming diet and put her back on the herbs.
I would love more info about "cooling" and "warming" foods (herbs??), especially as they relate to infections and inflamatory processes/healing. I've recently been interested/intrigued by Ayurveda diets. Is this similar?

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#28 of 33 Old 12-04-2008, 01:40 AM
 
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Cooling foods are ones that are:
all raw fruits and vegetables
mucous producing: i.e., bread, pasta, and all dairy products
foods made with refined sugars (popular cereals, snack bars, etc.)

Warming foods are:
Cooked fruits and vegetables (limit tomatoes and potatoes though)
beans
rice
small amounts of protein

When you see your child starting to get a runny nose (clear mucous), then limit or remove all of the cooling foods. Stick with a diet of warm oatmeal, cooked veggies and/or fruits (not too many fruits though), beans and proteins. The formulas we use that have worked best with our children are all from Blue Poppy Herbs (can only get through a licensed acupuncturist practitioner). They are AllerEase (use when the tongue is not red), Cold Quell (use when you see red on the edges of the tongue and/or on the tip), and Perilla and Mentha (if child has chronic clear runny nose with ear issues and red tongue).

It is best to speak with an acupuncturist/herbalist on this. Please make sure they are licensed and NCCAOM certified. Go to acupuncture.com and see if you can find one in your area.

A good book to pick up is "Healing With Whole Foods". My husband swears by it.
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#29 of 33 Old 12-04-2008, 01:54 AM
 
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Genetian violet will help with the diaper rash. If she has sensitive skin, the alcohol base could be burning, so try a tiny bit first.

Please don't be hard on yourself. The "I shouldn't have" statement is, I'm not sure what to call it: it's a nearly impossible statement to make truthfully in cases like these. A swollen fontanel should be taken very seriously.

And a real chest xray shouldn't be the least bit tortuous.

It's impossibly hard to watch your child experience that type of testing, even if it's necessary. It's okay for it to be necessary and impossible.
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#30 of 33 Old 12-04-2008, 11:46 AM
 
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A good book to pick up is "Healing With Whole Foods". My husband swears by it.
Thank you for the informative reply!


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