When to go to ER with stomach virus? *WE'RE GOING BACK POST 23* - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-10-2009, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DD has her first stomach virus.

I'm worried she's dehydrated. She started vomiting on Thurs. night. She kept down one nursing Fri. around 3:30am, and then kept down a nursing Sat. around 3:30am. Other than that, everything has been coming out one end or the other.

She nursed around 11:30 this morning, and DH is trying to get her down for a nap right now--she seems to keep it down when she's sleeping.

When would you take your LO to the hospital, presumably for an iv? A complicating factor here is that it's snowing, and by late this afternoon/early evening we will probably be snowed in and getting to the hospital will be extremely difficult.

Mommy to DD 5-07
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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Is she urinating? Is her mouth moist? Is she lethargic?

My DD has gone to the ER twice for an uncontrollable stomach virus. Both times she was lethargic - could barely keep her head up and was dazed. The first time she was still in diapers and had gone 12 hours without wetting a diaper and her mouth was dry - she was moderately dehydrated and needed an IV. The second time she had gone all day without peeing and was vomiting up any drop of liquid she ingested but, they gave her medicine which stopped the vomiting and she was able to keep fluids down.

Both times she was prescribed phenegran and it immediately stopped the vomiting so she could keep fluids down.

Honestly, if there was a chance I would be snowed in and unable to get my child emergency care, I would go immediately. Or, if vomiting is the problem, I would see if my pediatrician would write a prescription for phenegran and skip the whole ER thing all together (this is assuming she's not so dehydrated she needs an IV). Anytime we've had a stomach virus with vomiting, phenegran works like a charm.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for writing back so fast.
She has urinated a/b 1x every 12 hrs. or so. It's hard to tell b/c I switched to sposies for the diarrhea.

Her mouth is moist, but she is definitely lethargic. I think I'll give the dr. a call this afternoon.

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Old 01-10-2009, 04:12 PM
 
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I would call and see if the Dr will just give you a phenegran prescription. If that doesn't work, I would take her in. Thinking about you guys! I know stomach viruses are so hard
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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Lethargic, not peeing call your Doc or take to the ER. She may need IV fluids.


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Old 01-11-2009, 12:06 AM
 
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ER right away. Lethargy is the scariest symptom to see - it indicates late-stage dehydration.

How is she doing now?
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcal View Post
Honestly, if there was a chance I would be snowed in and unable to get my child emergency care, I would go immediately.
This. DS had a nasty stomach bug a few years ago (I think he was 1 or 2?). We all had it, but ds had it the worst. Anything that went in his mouth came right back up or out the bottom. He wasn't peeing at all (that I could tell.... but every diaper was a poopy one so it's hard to know for sure), eyes were slightly sunken in, mouth was dry, no tears were forming and he wasn't lethargic. That one got him an ER stay for IV fluids. Which was not fun considering I had the same nasty bug and, being a single mom, was the only one to go to the ER with him

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 01-11-2009, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We went.
We just got home.
Thanks for all the good wishes.

It definitely sucked, but it was also the right thing to do. She got a bag and a half of fluids, and definitely woke up. She got crankier as the night went on, though, which was frustrating--we would have loved to see her become more of herself, and I can't say she did.

Also, they gave her an anti-nausea medication in the iv bag, and she had a slight allergic reaction to that--puffy lips and a spotty forehead--so then they gave her Benedryl, which made her lethargic again. :

Sigh. Here's hoping tomorrow will be better. Thanks again.

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Old 01-11-2009, 12:49 AM
 
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Is she sleeping now?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup--she's in her crib while I relax a bit. I also needed to eat a massive amount of food, since I'm planning on letting her nurse all.night.long.

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Old 01-11-2009, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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PLEASE HELP!

It's not getting any better. She seems to vomit every time she has a big nursing, but I'm not sure how not to let her do that. I think I'm going to start pumping before she nurses, then let her comfort nurse.

We're forcing her to drink 1Tbs. of Pedialyte every 15 min.

Could this be something bacterial? They didn't do a feces test in the ER--should we page the dr. again and ask her to order one? Or go to the walk-in place again? At this rate, I'm 100% sure we're going to end up in the ER again today.

I'm nearing the end of my rope here. She hasn't kept anything down since Thurs. She's noticeably thinner. She's possibly lethargic again.

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Old 01-11-2009, 01:05 PM
 
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Could you pump and give BM in small increments every few minutes, then let her comfort suck? The antibodies in the BM might be helpful in getting over this, whatever it is.

I forgot to check how old your LO is before I started writing. But in any case, I think a child who hasn't been able to keep anything down for 3 days is past the point of "normal" stomach bug. If it were me, I would find someone to address this ASAP. Do you have a primary doc you could reach through exchange, or is the ER doc you were thinking of paging? Or, if you are not able to reach someone by phone I would take her back in.

GL, Mama! Thinking of you.

Laurie Busy mama to Boo (10/02) DeeDa (10/04) and Belly (10/07) TS 45X
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:13 PM
 
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I would definitely call the Dr back at least. They may be able to help you over the phone before you go back or they may suggest you come in. But since they just saw her, I would bet they will at least talk to you on the phone.

I read somewhere (in The Baby Book, I think), that all it takes is 20min for your baby to absorb some of your milk. So if she keeps it down for even 20min, it is helping. My dd has had some scary vomiting episodes too, but it's never lasted as long as you're describing. Good luck. I know how hard it is.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks.
I do think I'm ready to start being more aggressive w/the dr.'s. I'm angry too b/c although I asked several times, "Is she only getting saline?" they gave her anti-nausea meds in the first bag of fluids, and our dr. (very natural-minded) had told us not to allow that. The hospital staff flat-out lied. They will be getting a letter, but first my DD needs to be taken care of.

I'm going to pump, and start giving her the empty side to comfort suck and get whatever she can get. Her poops are starting to look less like diarrhea and more like bf baby poop, so I'm hoping she's getting some protein at least.

The Pedialyte is so gross. It's killing me to force her to drink it.

Mommy to DD 5-07
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:25 PM
 
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First of all ,remember that if she nurses, then vomits 5 minutes later, chances are that she's absorbed a little bit of fluid before it comes back up. The nurse/vomit cycle prevents dehydration better than the "nothing at all by mouth" method.

Secondly, pumping will help in two ways. First of all, she'll have an "emptier" breast to comfort nurse on, giving her smaller quantities of breastmilk in her tummy at once and reduce the chance of vomiting. Secondly, you can used the pumped milk in place of the pedialyte for feeding her a tablspoon every 15 minutes.

If you're able to keep her hydrated, you may not need to take her in anywhere. Definitely keep in contact with her dr over the phone, but I'd be very hesitant to take her into the ER again after what happened yesterday.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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In times like these, I use a syringe.
10 mins after a vomit, i syringe 2ml of fluid(i dont use pedialyte i use whatever the child drinks but thats me that is not a dr opinion)
if they keep that down, in 15 minutes i syringe 5ml of fluid. and slowly build it up.
if they vomit the 2ml, i repeat the process again. they are at least absorbing SOME of the fluid. my son usually has water in his syringe, with a little sugar added in.
my son will now just lick ice cubes instead of syringed.
it sounds like maybe she has rotovirus, which can last for up to 10 days at worst.

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Old 01-11-2009, 02:23 PM
 
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If you're pumping your milk- use that instead of pedialite! A thousand times better!

hope she feels better soon.

-Angela
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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I would get some S.boulardii and lactobacillis and bifidum bacteria probiotics for her. Give the probiotics on your finger or in pumped milk, or diluted in a sippy dropper. Give about hourly, until the vomiting ceases.

I'd only give the breastmilk, not pedialyte.

You might try some small bites of toast, or bone broth, or coconut water. All are settling for the stomach. Just *sips*. They are high in electrolytes.
Here are two links to info on the many health benefits of coconut water:

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/coconutwater.html

http://www.cocotap.com/nutrition.htm

I heard it is best served chilled.

We do homeopathic remedies for any acute issues. Consider her whole picture: fever?, lethargy? thirst? color? diarrhea? discomfort? blood? projectile? voiding? etc.

Here are some homeopathic alternatives:
http://www.homeopathiccentre.com.au/a_nausea.htm
http://www.hpathy.com/diseases/vomit...tment-cure.asp
http://books.google.com/books?id=NXI...um=8&ct=result
http://www.geocities.com/indianhomeo.../vomiting.html

You also might try some vit C, like Emergen-C in sips. And some Epsom salt baths for the detox effect.

Also, ginger and fennel and chamomile are helpful for settling stomachs, herbally. This could be sips of a tea. Gripe Water or Tum-ease are just ginger and fennel extracts.

If she is lethargic, not voiding, or mucus membranes are dull, pale or dry, she needs more IV fluids, electrolytes, and something for the vomiting. They can give a suppository medication also. Did you get the name of the anti-nausea medication? You need to know it!


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Old 01-11-2009, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, everyone.
I was mostly giving Pedialyte b/c I can't really pump--never have been able to. I tried this morning, but got nothing again. So I've been nursing more frequently, but cutting her off after 2-3 minutes. The Pedialyte was out of desperation.

Also, my parents came over this morning and inexplicably got her to drink half a carton of apple juice and eat 2 ginger snaps--this is a kid who hasn't voluntarily put anything near her mouth since Thursday. Grandparents are amazing.

She seems better, all of a sudden. I'm cautiously optimistic.

I did get the name of the anti-nausea medication. I paged our ped this morning, and she was appalled that they gave it to her--she seems to think that some of her symptoms could be caused by that. She's going to contact the ER, and I will also write a letter.

It's very upsetting to think that when my child needed emergency medicine (and she absolutely needed the iv yesterday), we ended up finding out how untrustworthy some doctors are. I do like the security of knowing the hospital is there when we need it, but if they're going to pull crap like this, what's the point?!?

Mommy to DD 5-07
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
If you're pumping your milk- use that instead of pedialite! A thousand times better!

hope she feels better soon.

-Angela

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Old 01-11-2009, 03:39 PM
 
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Oh, mama. I'm so sorry! I'm glad you are going to pursue this.

For your dd though, it sounds like thing are improving. I wish you luck!

For future reference breastmilk will ALWAYS be better than pedialyte. I would also definitely consider homeopathy.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:16 PM
 
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P.S.A.


DO NOT ALLOW ANY ANTI-NAUSEA or ANTI-DIARRHEA MEDICINES IN A CHILD WHO MIGHT HAVE FOOD POISONING (E. COLI, SALMONELLA, ETC) AND ESPECIALLY DO NOT ALLOW ANY ANTIBIOTICS!!!!

sorry for the all caps but needed to get attention... her body needs to get rid of the pathogen, therefore, it NEEDS to vomit and/or have diarrhea - preventing it will prolong her illness and increase the risk of . Further, antibiotics INCREASE the damage that bacteria such as e. coli and salmonella do to the body by essentially bursting the bacteria which then floods the bloodstream with their toxins. Antibiotics are almost NEVER administered to children for such infections anymore.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:29 PM
 
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, mama. All 5 of us have had a nasty stomach bug in the last 2 weeks. None of us had to go to the doctor or the hospital, but there were times when I was worried about dehydration -- did my research online and called and spoke with a nurse, which made me feel better. We're all doing fine now... coming out of it... but I know what an unnerving thing it is to see them that way and not be sure what to do, not know if you should do anything... Glad to hear she is feeling better!
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much, everyone. I'm fairly sure DD is finally improving. She still hasn't eaten anything solid (since Thurs. afternoon), but this evening she perked up a little and kept down two nursings. Phew.

It was a bit of a learning curve for me, since she needed me to start limiting her nursing--now I nurse her for two minutes every fifteen minutes. The tiny amounts is really helping her keep it down, and of course the frequency is helping her stay hydrated. I feel badly b/c now I suspect part of the reason she vomited for so long is b/c I was allowing her to nurse as much as she wanted, which clearly wasn't the best thing for her. Oh well.

So now my 20mo has gone back to BF baby poops, and she's nursing every 15 minutes. Who wants to bet that I'll be posting again in a few weeks, asking for help getting her back on solid food?

Mommy to DD 5-07
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:04 AM
 
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I'm glad to hear she's on the mend!

BTW, how can you say she's not eating any solid food when she ate two whole cookies?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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Old 01-12-2009, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We're going back.
She's lethargic again, and is throwing up every hour.
CRAP.

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Old 01-12-2009, 04:29 PM
 
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:31 PM
 
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Oh my goodness!! I hope they figure it out and she starts to get better soon.

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Old 01-12-2009, 04:52 PM
 
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SOunds like Rota Virus to me. My dd had it when she was 2. She vomited and had very foul smelling diarrhea for 5 days. We took her to the doc, and then to the ER where she was admitted for 2 days to get her hydrated. It was awful. I sure hope your lo feels better. Hugs to you mama!!
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:03 PM
 
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Just sending a My DS1's first stomach virus was a lot like this (although he never got as dehydrated - we were lucky). It flared up, calmed down, flared up again at least 2, maybe 3 times over a week. The doc said sometimes a virus will go dormant and then reappear and that was likely what was happening with DS. It was so disheartening. Every time it came back, though, it lasted less time. I hope this is the case for your LO as well.
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