Repeat urinary tract infections in 4 year old girl - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 02-12-2009, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone had a daughter with repeat UTI's? My daughter had one at three years of age, and one a year later at 4. Both were treated with antibiotics. While I always do what I can to avoid giving antibiotics, I have suffered from UTIs, so I know how painful they are. Having a screaming child that cannot urinate without pain is extremely difficult, and the first time (at age 3) the antibiotics cleared the infection. The next infection that popped up a year almost to the day prompted my very laid back physician to call and order an ultrasound and VCUG. I took her to the Children's Hospital for the tests, which all came back with no detected urine reflux from bladder to kidney. Good news. Until the second infection, again treated with antibiotics, didn't seem to clear. A month later, another UTI, although apparently a different strain of bacteria as the culprit. Antibiotics again. Clear urine test following. Then again, about another month later, after my intuition that something was still "not right" but NOT EVEN SUSPECTING another UTI (because the symptoms were very mild- no pain at all), what shows up, not in the office test, which looked clear, but the culture? ANOTHER UTI.

OK, I will not, I vowed, give her antibiotics again. So, our new doctor

(I had to switch, after a call from the office of our wonderful pediatrician we had since the birth of my 9 year old- telling us they no longer could take our state insurance- another matter- they never got paid, good old Blago- and after many tears)

answered all my concerns, and while recommending the antibiotics, did let me come in for urine tests while we took our daughter to a Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner for acupuncture and herbs. I carefully watched her, taking her temp a few times daily. Bladder infections can lead to kidney damage if not treated, so it is a very serious matter. After two weeks she had a clean culture, for which we were eternally grateful!

But now, while she is still being seen by the TCM practitioner and taking herbs, she still has a persistent strong unpleasant "something still wrong" smell around her vaginal area. And while she is having less frequency and accidents, she still is not 100%. I would love to know if anyone has had this type of problem, and if they might recommend a course of action or remedy that may help. We use CranActin with her (chewable cranberry concentrate), are giving her probiotics (to help her little body recoup from the bombings i.e. anitbiotics).
I remember as a child there was a girl at my grade school who had a very strong odor, for which the poor girl was constantly teased. But I feel she may have had a similar problem, and I worry that it is something that may persist and persist. I asked if the infections could be fungal in nature but the pediatrician stated that it would be very rare in a child and that they do test for that when they perform the culture. We are doing what we can to rebuild her natural immunity, but I do not want to give her too many supplements either.
I am, needless to say, still very concerned about what may be going on.
Thanks for any advice or related stories.
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#2 of 15 Old 02-12-2009, 09:06 PM
 
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What is she testing positive for? Ecoli? Our urologist (my daughter has a neurogenic bladder) only treats for certain bacteria and if the white count is over a certain number (for the life of me I can't remember what it is).

Does your daughter drink alot of juices? Eventhough juice is acidic the body turns it to alkalyne. Which can irritate the bladder.

What about baths? Particularly bubble baths? Do not do bubble baths. Will she take a shower instead?

Quote:
OK, I will not, I vowed, give her antibiotics again.
I know you are frustrated, but there is a time and place for abx. It's just knowing when to use them.

Where is Pat? She is really good about these things. There are a couple of UTI threads of recent days too.

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#3 of 15 Old 02-12-2009, 09:22 PM
 
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Probiotics help to prevent UTI, not sure about treating them once you have one. But, it won't hurt to add probiotics to your/her diet.

Homeopathy helps with UTIs also.

Specific research studies are linked below.

Probiotics. http://www.springerlink.com/content/1741p5k22284x265/

Homeopathics: http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/2262002.html

You might check out these threads also:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post11703950

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post11704452

Couple other hints in this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s#post12952236

Cranberry juice needs to be 100% nothing added.

Are there any whole food probiotics that she'll eat? Only need 1 Tablespoon of kefir a day for HUGE gut benefits. Basically, you need to support her immune system to prevent the UTIs.

Vit C, magnesium, zinc are all important for immune support.

Here are some vitamin and herbal alternatives to consider also. http://www.prevention.com/cda/vendor...tural.remedies


Here is a current thread about alternatives: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=infection

Pat

I have a blog.
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#4 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 10:57 AM
 
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I read a while ago that cranberries are actually not that good because they tend to irritate bladder lining, so maybe taking them long term is not a good idea. It has been awhile since I read it so I am not sure the source, but it was probably somewhere on curezone.com. Also in one of the latest Mercola newsletter he says cranberries have to much sugar even w/o added sugar and he recommends D-Mannose.
I would look if your daughter drinks enough water and keep her hydrated. Also keeping her private parts dry by changing her underwear or cloth liners. I would also take good care of disinfecting her underwear, GSE is good or hot water.
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#5 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 11:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily7 View Post
I read a while ago that cranberries are actually not that good because they tend to irritate bladder lining, so maybe taking them long term is not a good idea. It has been awhile since I read it so I am not sure the source, but it was probably somewhere on curezone.com. Also in one of the latest Mercola newsletter he says cranberries have to much sugar even w/o added sugar and he recommends D-Mannose.
I would look if your daughter drinks enough water and keep her hydrated. Also keeping her private parts dry by changing her underwear or cloth liners. I would also take good care of disinfecting her underwear, GSE is good or hot water.


Haven't heard that. It has to be 100% cranberry juice or capsules. Not the cocktail with sugars added.


Well here is the nutrition info on Cranberries.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...ofile&dbid=172

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#6 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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if she careful with wiping (front to back with bowel movements) and making sure nothing is left on her underwear. I think that's a common cause in newly potty trained kids. A friend of mine's DD had quite a few and they "thought" she was wiping correctly but when left to her own devices, she wasn't. Once the doctor explained things to her, she started wiping correctly and didn't get any more. If anatomically, things are okay, there has to be another reason. Do you have test strips so that you can test her at home to stay on top of it? Are they culturing every time?

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#7 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 11:50 AM
 
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Here is an article from Mercola:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...rry-juice.aspx

And here is a list of foods that iritate bladder:
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disord...ing_foods.aspx
and cranberries are on it. But this is not were I read about it. It was a lengthy paper that made me be careful with cranberries.
I agree not proper wiping maybe a cause.
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#8 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily7 View Post
Here is an article from Mercola:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...rry-juice.aspx

And here is a list of foods that iritate bladder:
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disord...ing_foods.aspx
and cranberries are on it. But this is not were I read about it. It was a lengthy paper that made me be careful with cranberries.
I agree not proper wiping maybe a cause.
But the cleveland clinic list (which is awesome!) is for an overactive bladder. The OP is concerned with UTI's.

Our Clinic and Urologist said 100% cranberry juice or capsules is recommended.

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#9 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 12:41 PM
 
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From what I remember is that if cranberries irritate your bladder lining, then the bladder is more prone to infections.
I tried to find a source for this but it is hard since 100s of links say cranberries are good for UTIs. They probably are in most cases, but if somebody has thin bladder lining they may not be.
Couple of years ago I was very prone to bladder infections so I did research a lot what to treat it with. And I found this article about not overdoing on cranberries. BTW, for me the best treatment was always constant water drinking and peeing (flushing) at the first sign of infection. I have not used abx for UTI for years. There is also this remedy fron Eastern Europe, Urosept which doctors there actually prescribe I found the best of all remedies. I think you can buy it online here, not sure if it is good for children.
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#10 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 12:43 PM
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I am subbing to this thread, as we are going through something similar, and I don't want my little girl to be "the stinky girl", either.
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#11 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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Is she doing her own wiping in the bathroom? It is super common for little girls to get UTI after UTI if they are not wiping correctly. My good friend's daughter was getting monthly UTIs and was on antibiotics so many times before a new doctor asked her mama to supervise wiping (it turns out her daughter was refusing to wipe front to back and no one knew)...and magically the UTIs stopped.

My daughter is 5.5 years old and still does not have the coordination and understanding to wipe well after poops. I supervise her every time and catch her right away if she is wiping incorrectly (back to front, multiple swipes with the same piece of toilet paper). I know she'll get it eventually, but for now I know it is just not realistic to expect her to wipe perfectly.
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#12 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 02:43 PM
 
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Another thing you might want to consider is how often she is going to the potty. Sometimes children will hold their urine (esp. after a painful UTI) which can actually make them more prone to UTI. The longer the urine sits in the bladder, the better chance bacteria has to colonize.

I would be sure that she is getting plenty of fluids, urinating often, and supervised wiping. I would also avoid baths.

We also give the cranberry capsules. I can see where cranberry might bother someone with a sensitive bladder, but for us the risk of UTI outweighs the risk of irritation. We do avoid oranges and lemons b/c they seem to obviously irritate dd's bladder.
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#13 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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i've read a LOT of good things about D-mannose.
s to ur dd

Helping women overcome postpartum depression and birth trauma. http://www.postmommyhood.com

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#14 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so many for responding. Let's see, yes- the doctor did mention about wiping, that it is a common cause. At home it is always still the call, heard from anywhere in the house:"Mama, I,'m done, come and wipe me off!!!" She does go to school 3 hours a day, starting not long after sheh started her first year (last year) at school. But then she went a whole year without any obvious infections. Now whether or not she was having issues, in hindsight, is questionable. Frequent urination and little wet accidents were common during last summer.
The pediatrician also told me that on a cellular level some people are just more prone to bladder infections. My husband as a child had them, which, for a boy is much more unusual. My first daughter had one at 9 mo., it took a week to figure out what was causing her fever, the poor girl, until we figured it out. So it can run in the family.
We give her cranberry in chewable form, CranActin, but when she has an infection. When I have had them I could always feel the onset, and one I found out about cranberry concentrate i could always nip it in the bud. Problem is with her she cannot tell me.
We don't have tons of juice, and I have been keeping sugar intake down since the repeat infections have occurred.
Thanks for the articles, I will take a look at them, and for your support.
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#15 of 15 Old 02-13-2009, 04:05 PM
 
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D-mannose has absolutely made a difference in my dd. WuWei linked to my thread in her post, but we've been able to beat dd's UTI with D-mannose. Now, we've been giving cranberry juice, but because it's so tart, dd hasn't been drinking much of it, and I'm not sure how much it's actually doing. But the d-mannose has been really easy to take and we've been seeing her infection decrease everyday (used AZO strips), all without abx. I'm completely sold on it.
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