103 fever in 6.5 month old WWYD? UPDATE post #52 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 222 Old 04-09-2009, 09:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by veganone View Post
I'm so sorry LO is so sick. The dehydration would really worry me. What is your GP recommending to address that issue? Babies get sick. People get sick. Natural remedies are lovely, but they aren't 100%. There is a valid reason people sometimes need western medicine. Your child's health is more important than any ideal.

Exactly. There's also a reason that life expectancies have risen and infant mortality has fallen as medicine advances as well. YOU didn't give her this illness. Babies sometimes get ill. You do the best you can for them in the meantime.

Nicole - Mom to FOUR healthy, happy, wild boys.
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#62 of 222 Old 04-09-2009, 09:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by babygrace View Post
what is the basis of the above statement?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/23/he...-bugaboos.html

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FEVER -- The fear of fever among parents or what doctors have called ''fever phobia,'' has contributed to abundant use of children's fever reducers, acetaminophen, popularly Tylenol, and ibuprofen, or Motrin.

Many parents mistakenly believe that a high fever is dangerous, possibly leading to brain damage or seizures, and needs to be treated.

''The only time fever is associated with brain damage is when it's from an external source such as heat stroke from being locked in a car on a hot day,'' Dr. Brown said. ''Intrinsic fever is not associated with brain damage.''

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/89/1/89-a

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Fever phobia is a term that was coined some years ago to describe exaggerated fears that parents have about fever in children. At the time the original research was done these fears included brain damage, seizures, death, coma, and blindness. Twenty years later many of these fears remain,2 leading to the possibility of over-aggressive treatment and unnecessary worry.

As there is no evidence that fever, as distinct from hyperthermia, causes any harm, therapy is usually aimed at promoting comfort rather than the aggressive pursuit of normothermia.

http://blogs.webmd.com/healthy-child...er-phobic.html

Quote:
So repeat after me: fever is our friend, fever is our friend... It lets us know that an infection may be brewing, and, at the same time, it helps to fight off that infection. And that infection-induced fever doesn't go high enough (typically >106.5) to carry a risk of causing damage to the brain and body.

**********

Then why treat a fever?

The body's thermostat is rarely satisfied; it usually wants the temperature in the body to be a few degrees warmer than it is. That's why we feel cold or chilled when really we are already too warm. Hence, the main reason to treat a fever: to make your child feel more comfortable. Period.
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#63 of 222 Old 04-09-2009, 10:14 PM
 
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My question with the statements you quoted is that saying "fever is not dangerous" implies that no treatment is ever necessary when there is a fever. Sure, it's not the "fever" you treat, but the illness causing the fever MAY require treatment. And to just say "fever is not dangerous" implies that the underlying illness isn't either.

It's misleading at best.
I will say once more that fever can indicate serious health conditions that DO need treatment. The fever in and of itself is not dangerous.

-Angela
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#64 of 222 Old 04-09-2009, 11:03 PM
 
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Exactly. There's also a reason that life expectancies have risen and infant mortality has fallen as medicine advances as well.

actually, our life expectancies are falling.
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#65 of 222 Old 04-09-2009, 11:13 PM
 
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I will say once more that fever can indicate serious health conditions that DO need treatment. The fever in and of itself is not dangerous.

-Angela
A prolonged fever can be very dehydrating, especially in young children.

We went through something similar with my son. It's rough when you're in the middle of it and trying to make the best choices. Thinking of your little one.
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#66 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 12:25 AM
 
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A prolonged fever can be very dehydrating, especially in young children.
You're correct- thanks for pointing it out. I was assuming good basic nursing care- but I tend to forget that many people are no longer aware of the basics.

-Angela
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#67 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 01:24 AM
 
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You're correct- thanks for pointing it out. I was assuming good basic nursing care- but I tend to forget that many people are no longer aware of the basics.

-Angela
Good basic nursing care? Do you mean tending to a sick baby or breastfeeding?

Babies tend to decrease their intake when ill, and depending on how high the fever is and for how long, their intake sometimes won't be enough to make up the loss of fluid just in respiration so you need to watch carefully for signs of dehydration. I learned this with my own child unfortunately, and now treat fevers if they are uncomfortable or it's been longer than 12 hours or so.
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#68 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 01:35 AM
 
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Good basic nursing care? Do you mean tending to a sick baby or breastfeeding?

Babies tend to decrease their intake when ill, and depending on how high the fever is and for how long, their intake sometimes won't be enough to make up the loss of fluid just in respiration so you need to watch carefully for signs of dehydration. I learned this with my own child unfortunately, and now treat fevers if they are uncomfortable or it's been longer than 12 hours or so.
Nursing as in caring for the sick- not nursing as in breastfeeding

-Angela
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#69 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 04:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
UPDATE....originally took baby in on monday the 6th for high fever and wheezing and coughing....have been doing nebulizer treatments a few times a day...baby's fever broke wednesday night...he woke up sweaty. Still bad cough...he would start coughing and then it would turn into him crying because the coughing hurt...so it would be a vicious cycle of coughing and crying...we havent gotten much sleep at all this week. Today-thursday....baby's eyes are sunken in....he's lost half a pound...not smiling and active...not nursing well.
Baby overall was worse today than on monday....i took him back to our GP...who practices integrative medicine and holistic practices....he listened to the baby's lungs and said that his right lung sounds worse than the left and he was a bit concerned...as the baby did not seem to be any better.
We did a chest x-ray and the right lung showed pneumonia....i kept asking about viral vs bacterial...and he mentioned we could do a blood test to figure out which one....he also mentioned that in a baby this young ...he feels that we should treat right away...rather than wait and see...we've waited 4 days and it's gotten worse...i was almost in tears....as i had originally never wanted to take my baby to any doctors...i didnt want to give my baby medicine....i'm asking my self....what did i do wrong...did i not take care of my baby the way i should have...i feel so guilty right now....But i feel that he has to have the antibiotics and steriod....i am giving him a probiotic...plus i took him to our chiro who did did accupuncture today too.
I felt better after seeing our chiro....however i still feel so bad as a mommy that my baby is so sick.
I need some mama support yall.
i've been there with a 3 month old, tiny thing with an IV and O2 taped on. her snotty nose of a couple days suddenly (overnight) turned into 103.7, lethargic, breathing too fast (50-60 resp/min) to nurse well, O2 sats ~90%. thankfully the xray showed pneumonia (right upper lobe), so we avoided a lumbar puncture (but she did have a straight cath to check for a UTI ).

that night was the longest i ever spent, no room to nurse her in the chair pull out bed, so i crawled into the giant crib and hoped i wouldn't fall out to nurse her and cuddle up on and off through the night.

you will get through this, so will he. you didn't do anything wrong, illness happens. i second guessed every decision (should we have stayed home the day before? we went on a play date for her older sister, it was just a snotty nose...), but you can't live your life holed up in bed for every snotty nose.

i hope by the time you read this you are home again and he is recovering.

my signature is usually illegible
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#70 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 12:06 PM
 
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actually, our life expectancies are falling.
Falling since when?

At THIS link there is a table, from 2001. The US has the highest life expectancy of any country listed, 77 years. Compare that to Africa where the average life expectancy is 54 years.

Since 1950 our life expectancies have actually been rising...(2nd table on the page linked earlier)

North America (U.S. and Canada)

1950-1955 ~ 69
1960-1965 ~ 70
1970-1975 ~ 72
1980-1985 ~ 75
1990-1995 ~ 76
1995-2000 ~ 77

Steadily rising...

Looks like western medicine isn't he big bad wolf some people like to make it out to be.

What's your source for saying they are falling?

Nicole - Mom to FOUR healthy, happy, wild boys.
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#71 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 02:10 PM
 
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Nature knows best.
:

Nature doesn't care if you die. Nature just goes along. Cycles and all that. Humans are given the tools to work with, and fight nature so we don't die "naturally". Nature doesn't have it out for any of us, but also doesn't try to help any of us out. If "nature knew best", nature would know how to make all organisms live in harmony so we don't have MRSA attacking us. Nature just is. It doesn't know anything.

/really tired of people leaving their health care in the hands and ideals of mumbo jumbo.

Alegna, post some links. YOUR links - the links YOU got your information from, please.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
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#72 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 02:46 PM
 
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Nature doesn't care if you die. Nature just goes along. Cycles and all that. Humans are given the tools to work with, and fight nature so we don't die "naturally". Nature doesn't have it out for any of us, but also doesn't try to help any of us out. If "nature knew best", nature would know how to make all organisms live in harmony so we don't have MRSA attacking us. Nature just is. It doesn't know anything.

/really tired of people leaving their health care in the hands and ideals of mumbo jumbo.

Alegna, post some links. YOUR links - the links YOU got your information from, please.

Nature doesn't try to help us out?!?!?!?! EVERYTHING that you have and are is because of nature. You have food because NATURE has a system of taking a seed, germinating it, letting it grow, providing sunlight to it, providing rain so it gets water, creating little creatures and insects that will help it along (worms, bees, etc.) What would you have without nature? EVERYTHING in nature is planned perfectly. We humans have been messing with it for so long, trying to manipulate it, that we have royally screwed it up. As far as MRSA goes, it is on the rise BECAUSE of vaccination. Many organsims do work and live in harmony together. Then, after injecting toxins into the system and ingesting them through food, our body does not recognize some of those organisms as friendly anymore and attacks them, leaving you with the various problems we have now. Did you know the human immune system has HIB bacteria all around it. It recognizes it and brushes it off as a friendly bacteria unless that immune system is too over sugared. Then, it cannot recognize that as a friend and attacks it, with the Hib fighting back. So, technically, a disease we are now vaccinating for was once not a big problem when it was in natures hands. Enter in the egotistical human to mess that up with lab made food and sugars.
I am so tired of people not paying attention to the repercussions of trying to manipulate nature and the human body. Everything is interfered with these days. From the moment of conception to birth to natures intention for mothers to breastfeed, to the developing immune system, and on and on and on. And what do we have to show for it? A population of healthy and thriving humans? Quite the opposite actually. If you disagree with this, you should look at some of the latest health statistics. People are overweight and sick thanks to our disgusting food that is stuffed with pesticides, hormones, preservatives, you name it. We have fantastic ingredients like High Fructose Corn Syrup that does nothing but slowly kill us and it is in EVERYTHING! Childhood diabetes is on the rise. That is a fact. What is your theory on that? Is that nature finally deciding to plague these kids with such a disease? Or could it possibly be that they are fed bad food from the day they are born? Even parents with the best nutritional intentions get blindsided by some of the ingredients in food these days. Or better yet...could it possibly be the fact that we take a brand new baby with a pure body and shoot them up with aluminum, formaldehyde, various human and animal cells, protiens and DNA, etc.?
I could go on and on about this, but I have a 11 month old who desperately needs my attention. To be continued...
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#73 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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If my daughter had had a 103 fever at 6.5 months that lasted more than 48 hours, I would have been at the doctor's or ER ASAP. I would not mess around with waiting it out, playing a guessing game on what is causing it. I would want to start to find out. I would also probably only treat in the case of no sleep. I feel sleep is so incredibly important that I would not allow a baby that young to remain feverish and with seriously interrupted sleep as in not sleeping in at least one or 2 blocks of time typical for your child. Or whatever is typically the pattern for your own child at that age. I would also include in my evaluate of the 24/48 hour period dehydration. It really is pretty impossible to do much with a young infant. At least in my experience with my daughter. The things I thought I would do to help her she wanted nothing to do with.

I think it's really important to remember that not every child is the same and a 103 fever in one child could be really bad whereas for another, it might be the norm and no big deal. I think it is hard to separate the fever from the underlying cause. If we all assume all 6.5 month's old have the same biological constitution, then one answer fits all would work. But what if a child has weak lungs, is developing pneumonia and has 103 fever? Versus a strong healthy lunged child with the same fever? If you look at the fever alone, you could be making a really bad decision on waiting it out as in waiting before seeing a doctor, not waiting it out on reducing the fever. The fever is just a SMALL symptom in knowing when to move on something. Assuming a high fever is always ok, is a bad judgement and even a distraction from what might be going on.

And in a baby so young, there could be some serious medical unknown conditions at that point where a 103 fever for over 24 or 48 hours would be a very bad idea for my comfort level. I would want to engage outside monitoring/experience help at that point. Now 103 in a 2 year old or 4 year old... many things apply but it's quite a different game, IMHO.
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#74 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:21 PM
 
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OP - I hope your baby is doing better today! Post an update when you get a chance.
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#75 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:23 PM
 
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Alegna, post some links. YOUR links - the links YOU got your information from, please.
Mamakay posted great links!

She's a link godess. I rarely keep them after I read them.

-Angela
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#76 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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OP - I hope your baby is doing better today! Post an update when you get a chance.
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#77 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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Falling since when?

Looks like western medicine isn't he big bad wolf some people like to make it out to be.

What's your source for saying they are falling?
i dont have time to search for research links but a quick google search came up w/ this article: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...fespan22m.html

there are a few more.

western medicine isnt the answer all the time. i venture to say it isnt the answer most of the time. i have attempted to convey my opinion in a respectful tone here but it seems there are some who just can not see the opposing viewpoint presented here.

there are MANY articles in Mothering supporting the apparent minority view presented in this thread.
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#78 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:29 PM
 
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sages... I had a hard time reading the block of text, please excuse me if I leave something out.

You seem to take what I said very personally. You also seem to think because I am fine with some western medicine, that I know nothing about alternatives?

Nature would do those things without us. Humans have died from nature since man kind came to being. It's not a sentient being that is there to serve us. Nature doesn't grow new because we want it to, it does it because that's just what it does. Nature was here before humans and will continue after we all die out. It's just there. It would be there if we left it alone and all died at 40 years old from infections and diseases (and yes, we would get them, man kind has been getting sick long before any medicines came to being), it would be there to evolve all on it's own and create new diseases without us mutating them, and it'll be there no matter what we do with it.

I don't vaccinate and don't agree with vaccines, but there are many drugs and procedures that prolong our life and give us the life expectancy we're seeing today. Without asprin, tylenol, antibiotics, surgery, etc we would be living much shorter life spans. Not all western medicine is out to make "the man" money....some is, sure, but not all. Shunning all of western medicine is foolhardy.

MRSA is on the rise because of of the overuse of antibiotics. I know MRSA pretty well, my dad lost his foot while under my care because of it. Unless you have real, valid links to back up your claim?

No, nature doesn't try to help us out. I repeat, it's not a sentient being. Scientists try to help us out. Big pharma gets in the way of that to make a buck, but it's us humans that are trying to use nature as a tool.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
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#79 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:34 PM
 
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/really tired of people leaving their health care in the hands and ideals of mumbo jumbo.
it may be mumbo jumbo to you, but for me, i get tired of ppl expecting me to "do something" just b/c there is a "chance" something bad could happen. most of us drive, we take risks every day. I prefer to gamble on the natural progression of things and allow my family to heal naturally....which they always have.

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I am so tired of people not paying attention to the repercussions of trying to manipulate nature and the human body. Everything is interfered with these days. From the moment of conception to birth to natures intention for mothers to breastfeed, to the developing immune system, and on and on and on. And what do we have to show for it? A population of healthy and thriving humans? Quite the opposite actually. If you disagree with this, you should look at some of the latest health statistics. People are overweight and sick thanks to our disgusting food that is stuffed with pesticides, hormones, preservatives, you name it. .
thanks for posting that. i was beginning to wonder where i was.
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#80 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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Without asprin, tylenol, antibiotics, surgery, etc we would be living much shorter life spans.
I agree wholeheartedly that western medicine has done many things to improve health and life-spans. Antibiotics have been a miracle in many situations. Surgery saves lives in hundreds of ways.

However, asprin and tylenol have done nothing to extend life spans. Are they useful tools? Absolutely. Do I use them? You bet. Do they save lives? Not really. It could be argued that asprin saves lives when used as a blood thinner. I can't think of a situation where tylenol could possibly be a life-saver.

-Angela
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#81 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 04:08 PM
 
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You are correct - I lumped tylenol in with life saving when I should have added a second category of "making life more comfortable". Cramps, headaches, high fevers, all made better by the (occasional) use of tylenol, and of course other drugs. Asprin as I see it is more of a heart medicine then for pain, though I do have excedrin.

And please, "beginning to wonder where you are"? MDC is not the be all end all of uber-crunch. The exchange of information both natural and less then natural is vital for people to make a choice. When hyland's teething tablets don't work, you bet I would reach for the other stuff to keep my baby out of complete misery (this never actually happened, I didn't even need the tablets). Anyone's use of western medicine doesn't exclude them from being natural minded.

FTR? I've brought out motrin one time for my kids in the last 2 years. I think I medicated a fever 3 or 4 years ago, I don't know how long before that. I don't vax. There are no OTC drugs in the house except pain relievers and they're all for me and my stupid migraines. Oh, I do have antibiotic cream, we got that when my 4 year old decided to throw a weeding tool into his foot. I didn't take him to the ER and get a tetnus vaccine, but I did use a lot of betadine, clean water, ointment and bandaids. None of my kids have seen a doctor in years (except the dentist). We use SA almost religiously for illness, teas for colds and sore throats, etc. I don't use fluoride. I have plenty of MDC worthy things that I am against, but this whole "never medicate for fever" - or whatever....not good to pass around.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
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#82 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 04:23 PM
 
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it would be more accurate to quote the poster who made those comments regarding fever, not me. i, too, agree that it is misleading and unclear.

OP, to you.

Oh right - it was a quote that you quoted...

 

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#83 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 04:36 PM
 
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And please, "beginning to wonder where you are"? MDC is not the be all end all of uber-crunch. The exchange of information both natural and less then natural is vital for people to make a choice. When hyland's teething tablets don't work, you bet I would reach for the other stuff to keep my baby out of complete misery (this never actually happened, I didn't even need the tablets). Anyone's use of western medicine doesn't exclude them from being natural minded.
the comment was in response to your statement that this is all mumbo jumbo. thats not a comment i would expect to see here on MDC.

it is nice to come to MDC and be able to get support from like minded ppl. and whether or not you use tylenol to dose a fever, i simply dont see the need to beat a dead horse..some of us simply don't use it for a fever. comfort, perhaps....but fever no. i have no reason to care whether someone does use it for a 101, or 103 fever...just seems that ppl get upset if someone posts that they don't (which i dont). the implications that those of us who do not are risking our children's lifes is just wrong. no, i dont care what implications are being made...but it woudl be nice to be given the same respect as those who dont use tylenol for fevers give those who do...and statements like "all this mumbo jumbo" certainly dont favor good will to all....just my observations.

there are a lot of ppl who believe homeopathics are mumbo jumbo. im not one. there are a lot of ppl who think chiropractice care and acupuncture are mumbo jumbo. i dont believe either are mumbo jumbo; however, chiro care has worked well for my family; acupuncture never has. doesnt mean i believe it is mumbo jumbo..i just dont believe it works for us.


ftr, ive never used tylenol as a fever reducer..and ive never had a baby or child "in complete misery". ive had kids with high fevers though.
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#84 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 05:16 PM
 
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none of the links you provided state studies/research to back up their statements. but, the webmd link has the following caveat (in quotes) which is interesting, because it provides a clue that fever itself, depending on the child, can be worrisome and treatment worthy: http://blogs.webmd.com/healthy-child...er-phobic.html

Quote:
A few caveats

* This discussion does not apply to children who have seizures with fever ("febrile seizures"). They need their fever to be managed more aggressively to try to prevent recurrences.
* Any fever in the first months could indicate a possible significant infection requiring immediate attention.
* Don't get too caught up in the exact temperature. While it is true that higher fevers may signify a more worrisome infection, more important are your child's symptoms, such as respiratory distress, irritability, listlessness, lethargy, poor feeding, fewer interactions with then environment, rash, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I'm much more worried about a listless child with a temperature of 101, than a smiling playful one with a temp of 103.
* If your baby/child looks sick in any of the ways mentioned above, call your pediatric provider, even if the temperature is not high enough to be called a fever.
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#85 of 222 Old 04-10-2009, 05:19 PM
 
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OP, i apologize for the ongoing parallel discussion in a thread you started for a situation which you are undergoing IRL. i hope baby is doing better today.
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#86 of 222 Old 04-11-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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I didn't say "this is all mumbo jumbo" though. I said I was "really tired of people leaving their health care in the hands and ideals of mumbo jumbo"...I suppose I should have NOT used that phrase, I forget people can't translate what I say vs what I mean in my head. What I meant by mumbo jumbo is not taking care of medical conditions that really need to be taken care of using outside resourses, but the parent/person in charge thinks the body will just fix itself because that's what bodies do. Our bodies don't always work right. They fail us, they need help. People died of common stuff not so long ago because the tools of western medicine (and better alternative medicine) weren't available. If alternative medicine works to bring a (high) fever down, or make a kid not completely miserable, by all means, please use it. I'm not all up to date on alternative medicine, but I adore chiropractors. I use peppermint oil for migraines. And the other stuff I posted before.

Does that explain what I mean any better?

Oh! I apologize for the snippity "oh please", wasn't so nice of me

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Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
the comment was in response to your statement that this is all mumbo jumbo. thats not a comment i would expect to see here on MDC.

it is nice to come to MDC and be able to get support from like minded ppl. and whether or not you use tylenol to dose a fever, i simply dont see the need to beat a dead horse..some of us simply don't use it for a fever. comfort, perhaps....but fever no. i have no reason to care whether someone does use it for a 101, or 103 fever...just seems that ppl get upset if someone posts that they don't (which i dont). the implications that those of us who do not are risking our children's lifes is just wrong. no, i dont care what implications are being made...but it woudl be nice to be given the same respect as those who dont use tylenol for fevers give those who do...and statements like "all this mumbo jumbo" certainly dont favor good will to all....just my observations.

there are a lot of ppl who believe homeopathics are mumbo jumbo. im not one. there are a lot of ppl who think chiropractice care and acupuncture are mumbo jumbo. i dont believe either are mumbo jumbo; however, chiro care has worked well for my family; acupuncture never has. doesnt mean i believe it is mumbo jumbo..i just dont believe it works for us.


ftr, ive never used tylenol as a fever reducer..and ive never had a baby or child "in complete misery". ive had kids with high fevers though.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
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#87 of 222 Old 04-11-2009, 03:20 AM
 
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sages... I had a hard time reading the block of text, please excuse me if I leave something out.

You seem to take what I said very personally. You also seem to think because I am fine with some western medicine, that I know nothing about alternatives?

Nature would do those things without us. Humans have died from nature since man kind came to being. It's not a sentient being that is there to serve us. Nature doesn't grow new because we want it to, it does it because that's just what it does. Nature was here before humans and will continue after we all die out. It's just there. It would be there if we left it alone and all died at 40 years old from infections and diseases (and yes, we would get them, man kind has been getting sick long before any medicines came to being), it would be there to evolve all on it's own and create new diseases without us mutating them, and it'll be there no matter what we do with it.

I don't vaccinate and don't agree with vaccines, but there are many drugs and procedures that prolong our life and give us the life expectancy we're seeing today. Without asprin, tylenol, antibiotics, surgery, etc we would be living much shorter life spans. Not all western medicine is out to make "the man" money....some is, sure, but not all. Shunning all of western medicine is foolhardy.

MRSA is on the rise because of of the overuse of antibiotics. I know MRSA pretty well, my dad lost his foot while under my care because of it. Unless you have real, valid links to back up your claim?

No, nature doesn't try to help us out. I repeat, it's not a sentient being. Scientists try to help us out. Big pharma gets in the way of that to make a buck, but it's us humans that are trying to use nature as a tool.
I didn't take your post personally at all. Sorry if that is how it came across.
I still disagree with you on this.
Mothers create a special milk for their child specifically. That milk is formulated to protect baby and build immunity to diseases/infections that may take their life or weaken them. That is nature made my friend. In that case nature IS helping us along. Do you disagree? Science has tried to copy it, with no success and has caused much more harm than good by doing so. Do you agree?
This thread is about fever which I admit can get scary. All I can do is go with my own experience with fever.
My 11 month old had his first fever a couple weeks ago. In the middle of the night his temp was 103. I was scared and worried, but decided to let it go for a bit because I knew it was fighting something. He had it through out the night and I kept him hydrated. He seemed irritated but not miserable. Finally in the wee hours of the morning, he was starting to act uncomfortable. I decided then to treat the child not the fever and gave him a very small dose of tylenol to attempt to take the edge off.
His fever went away, he slept for a long time and woke up fine! That day my SIL called hysterical because her 2 yr old had been up all night with a 103 fever and they had to give her tylenol and Motrin all night (My son and her daughter had been playing all day together). She calls hysterical again after Dr. appt because her LO was diagnosed with RSV. Long story short, my son NEVER got sick past that fever. I KNOW he was fighting off the virus. I BELIEVE that by letting his fever do its work for as long as he was comfortable, he was able to fight the virus off. I believe that natures design to have fevers fight disease HELPED him along.
I don't think one can say "Nature doesn't help us." You can say nature doesn't "save" us or "protect" us, but I believe that however you want to look at it, we get our help.
I agree with you about big pharma. I also agree that not all modern medicine is bad.
This link mentions MRSA and antibiotics but also brings up the link between prevnar and MRSA.
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...ld-flu-deaths/
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#88 of 222 Old 04-11-2009, 07:03 AM
 
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Alternatives are for when things are going well, when things get bad do what you need to do to take care of that baby.
While I appreciate the sentiment behind this post (and certainly don't intend to criticize the OP for seeking conventional medical treatment for a baby with pneumonia), I have to disagree strongly with the idea that's implied, i.e., that alternative medicine is somehow a lightweight option that's ineffective or inappropriate for truly serious problems. Having just read through this thread for the first time, I've noticed that "alternatives" have generally been presented in a very limited way. For instance, there have been references to things like Hyland's teething tablets, vitamin C, or just doing nothing and hoping for the best. To me, all of these would fall in the category of "home remedies." They may be helpful in many cases, but they're basically the alternative version of a dab of neosporin, an aspirin tablet, or some other simple and not-always-effective allopathic remedy. If you've tried them, and your child is still getting sicker and sicker, you clearly need to find something more effective, ASAP.

On the other hand, if we compare apples to apples... i.e., diagnosis and treatment by a skilled MD, vs. diagnosis and treatment by a skilled practitioner of an established alternative medical discipline... then the alternative approach is IMO a valid one, whether things are going "well" or "badly." Of course, there are some situations that are beyond the scope of these disciplines; nobody is going to be able to use homeopathy to re-attach a severed leg, or acupuncture to correct a congenital heart defect. But this is due to the type of ailment, not to its severity. For example, those who strongly support the homeopathic approach would rather choose an expert homeopath than an expert MD to treat an infection, even (or perhaps especially) if it were a potentially dangerous one. (Needless to say, it can be hard to find a real expert in any healing profession... which is why we would do well to form relationships with one or more trusted practitioners, before an emergency happens. Even if they can't solve the problem, they'll likely be able to refer us to someone who can.)

It seems as if a strong preference for alternative medical care -- even when our children are actually sick -- is somewhat of a minority view on this thread, and perhaps isn't even considered "respectable" by some people. That comes as a surprise, especially given the forum header:

Health and Healing is a forum for discussion that reaches beyond mainstream health care norms. It embraces the wide variety of natural and alternative healing modalities as well as necessary conventional medical care. To further this aim please use the term "health care practitioner" rather than "doctor" to embrace the reality that there are other professionals out there to consult for health care needs.


Anyway, just to add my 2 cents on the topic of medicating a feverish child: I'll do it on occasion (usually with ibuprofen), if he or she seems really miserable and nothing else is helping. I don't medicate for the fever itself, though I probably would if it stayed at 105 for a significant length of time. In that case, the medication would be my last step before going to the ER -- as it's the first thing they're going to ask about when you get there, anyway. And this does make sense, from a diagnostic perspective. A fever of 105 that's reducible to 101 with medication, is a very different beast from a fever that's still at 105 after medication.

It's also important to note that a fever "breaking" isn't the same thing as a fever going down due to antipyretics. When a fever is lowered artificially, the patient might seem somewhat relieved, but the illness itself is just as strong as ever. As a PP said, Tylenol can certainly make people more comfortable, but it doesn't cure anything.

When a fever breaks on its own, it's a dramatic change: the patient is immediately, noticeably better; and recovery is generally very rapid afterward. It's obvious what's happening, even without a thermometer. I've read about this many times in older books, but have only personally experienced it once, in the small hours of the morning after my son had been treated homeopathically for his croup. It was amazing to see, though also kind of scary. After the remedy, his fever (which had been moderate) started going up and up... and then crossed 105, and then... just as I was wondering if I should give him the Advil, or start packing up to go to the hospital... POOF, it was all over. His breathing went back to normal, his face relaxed and lost its flushed look, and he fell into a deep, restful sleep. Just like the old-time books said. And he hasn't had croup since.
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#89 of 222 Old 04-11-2009, 08:17 AM
 
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BTW, here's a page from what appears to be a very mainstream pediatric practice: Parent Information About Fever. This information is similar to what I've read elsewhere (also on mainstream medical sites), which is how I settled on my personal "comfort zone" of keeping my childrens' fevers from going above 105 for long periods. Not that a temperature of 105 is dangerous in itself, but I prefer to be on the more cautious side of things and keep a bit of a safety margin.

Medicating fevers between 102-104 is considered optional, and the only purpose is to keep the child more comfortable, not to reduce the fever per se. If this is done, the temperature shouldn't be lowered below 100. And it's not recommended that parents give fever reducers for temperatures under 102. (Of course, with a young baby or a very sick-acting child, you might still need to take them in to be examined, even if they only have a low-grade fever.)

It's also interesting to note that their "Myths and Facts" section matches much of what Angela has been saying: fevers produced by the body don't cause brain damage, febrile seizures aren't harmful, etc.
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#90 of 222 Old 04-11-2009, 10:59 AM
 
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great post hummingmom. i never have enough time to type out a long thoughtful post. thanks for doing so.
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