103 fever in 6.5 month old WWYD? UPDATE post #52 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2009, 10:13 PM
 
Scullery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would continue on with the antbx as prescribed and call the ped's answering service tomorrow morning. He or she has to have someone as backup and they can deal with it.
Scullery is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-14-2009, 10:27 PM
 
graceomalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your baby needs to finish the antibiotics. You can't just stop a course halfway through - it opens your baby up to an even worse case of pnumonia (and he'll have to have stronger abx for it, which will cause an even worse rash).

Since it responded so well to the abx it was probably bacterial.
graceomalley is offline  
Old 04-14-2009, 10:32 PM
 
Mama Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Apparently on MDC
Posts: 10,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, finish what you have, and call the doc as soon as possible. Let him know you started it, how many he took, how many days between stopping and starting - every detail. He needs to be closely monitored to make sure the bacteria doesn't return worse then before.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
Mama Dragon is offline  
Old 04-14-2009, 10:39 PM
 
Jilian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 12,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by graceomalley View Post
Your baby needs to finish the antibiotics. You can't just stop a course halfway through - it opens your baby up to an even worse case of pnumonia (and he'll have to have stronger abx for it, which will cause an even worse rash).

Since it responded so well to the abx it was probably bacterial.
I agree. If you need medical advice call the doctor who diagnosed the pneumonia and prescribed the antibiotics, I don't think anyone here is qualified to give medical advice in regards to treating pneumonia.

Zen doula-mama to my spirited DS1 (2/03), my CHD (TAPVR) warrior DS2 (6/07) & a gentle baby girl (8/09)
Jilian is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:11 AM
 
mamajama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If your doctor is away till Monday, is there a nurse's hotline you can call in your area to ask about the abx? What is the name of the antibiotic?
mamajama is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mamato3wild ponnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: hopefully close to bliss
Posts: 2,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
zithromax....it is a 5 dose abx...take one dose a day for 5 days...doc said it stays in system for 10 days.

Mami to fly-by-nursing2.gifds 4 wks, ds 2yo, ds 6yo, dd 11yo, ds 17 yo. novaxnoIRC.gifwaterbirth.jpg
Mamato3wild ponnie is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 09:44 AM
 
youngwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Way down South!
Posts: 405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
To Mamato3wildponie,

I am *very* thankful that you appropriately sought medical treatment for your young child. It was warranted, and you listened to your motherly instinct!

In the past, I also have avoided fever reducers, until my son had a febrile seizure....that was one of (if not the) scariest day of my life! O.O

Now, I treat high fevers or when they seem uncomfortable. And, my children have all still managed to build healthy immune systems inspite of occasional Tylenol use.

Moderation and balance....

Blessings,
Rebecca
youngwife is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mamato3wild ponnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: hopefully close to bliss
Posts: 2,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you.
Here is a website that suggests viral pneumonia...one must read the whole article or scan about 1/4 to the bottom and read the section...preschool-aged children...it lumps children 4 months to 5 years in this catagory.....http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040901/899.html
Also suggest that bacterial pneumonia is comes with a sudden onset, as a viral case comes after viral symptoms....which my little one had...he had a runny nose..slight cough for about a week before the fever...and then 4 days after fever started the chest x-ray was done.
The day of the x-ray my baby did not have a fever any more...it had broke in the night...(the night before i took him back in)....he woke up in a cold sweat and the fever was gone. So then the next day i took him in because he was still coughing bad and the wheezing seemed to be worse.
SO i guess i'm wanting to understand how is it that his fever broke..no fever..and the pneumonia was there...if it was bacterial wouldnt the fever still be present?
The website also suggests treating both bacterial and viral with abx...in younger children.
I'm guess i'm searching for info to give me a better understanding whether or not this is viral or bacterial.
I have a call in to the doc's office already...

Mami to fly-by-nursing2.gifds 4 wks, ds 2yo, ds 6yo, dd 11yo, ds 17 yo. novaxnoIRC.gifwaterbirth.jpg
Mamato3wild ponnie is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Amylcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A fever is not always present with a bacterial infection. My oldest DD has had many infections, but only one or two fevers in her entire life (and even those were very mild - 101 at the most and short lived)

knit.gifMom of Many  jumpers.gif

Amylcd is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:03 AM
 
cat2116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: under the stars...
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Thank you.
Here is a website that suggests viral pneumonia...one must read the whole article or scan about 1/4 to the bottom and read the section...preschool-aged children...it lumps children 4 months to 5 years in this catagory.....http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040901/899.html
Also suggest that bacterial pneumonia is comes with a sudden onset, as a viral case comes after viral symptoms....which my little one had...he had a runny nose..slight cough for about a week before the fever...and then 4 days after fever started the chest x-ray was done.
The day of the x-ray my baby did not have a fever any more...it had broke in the night...(the night before i took him back in)....he woke up in a cold sweat and the fever was gone. So then the next day i took him in because he was still coughing bad and the wheezing seemed to be worse.
SO i guess i'm wanting to understand how is it that his fever broke..no fever..and the pneumonia was there...if it was bacterial wouldnt the fever still be present?
The website also suggests treating both bacterial and viral with abx...in younger children.
I'm guess i'm searching for info to give me a better understanding whether or not this is viral or bacterial.
I have a call in to the doc's office already...
BACTERIAL PNEUMONIA DOES NOT ALWAYS CAUSE A FEVER. This is really important to understand, my daughter had bacterial pneumonia at 17 months and was VERY, VERY ill, she needed a week long course of IV antibiotics and then a two week course of oral antibiotics. She NEVER had a fever.

Unfortunately I have experience of both viral and bacterial pneumonia my daughter has had both, bacterial 3 times and viral once (she does have an underlying health condition) and in my experience it is not true that bacterial pneumonias always starts suddenly. It can start very quickly, or it can develop more gradually, sometimes after a viral infection as the immune system is lowered.

I really don't understand why you are so concerned about giving antibiotics if they are making your baby better. A short course of antibiotics is not going to be harmful in any way. Anitibiotics are over-prescribed but they are also lifesavers, my DD would almost certainley have died without them.

Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, did you say your LO has pneumonia in her right upper lobe? I have been told (by a pediatric consulutant) that lobal pneumonias are nearly always bacterial.

Does it matter if its bacterial or viral??? I would always give antibitics for pneumoni, just in case, bacterial pneumonia can get VERY bad, VERY quickly. Trust me on this one.
cat2116 is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:06 AM
 
D_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat2116 View Post

I really don't understand why you are so concerned about giving antibiotics if they are making your baby better. A short course of antibiotics is not going to be harmful in any way. Anitibiotics are over-prescribed but they are also lifesavers, my DD would almost certainley have died without them.
I agree. I don't understand why you are agonizing about the abx so much. Just finish the course. Or at the very least, take your child to an MD today and get their opinion.

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

D_McG is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Mama Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Apparently on MDC
Posts: 10,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post
zithromax....it is a 5 dose abx...take one dose a day for 5 days...doc said it stays in system for 10 days.
Zithromax is awesome. I remember when it first came out. Before then it was a really long course of amoxicillin for ear and other infections and kids just didn't do so well on it! Viral pneumonia wouldn't have responded to the abx. He would likely be still very sick if it was viral. Maybe better, but not much better like you report. You can safely assume it's bacterial just based on that. Going on that, now think about the low amount of abx he's gotten and how it's only killed the weakest bacteria, allowing him to seem better, but there's still bacteria in there. It's more important for him to get them JUST IN CASE. It will not harm him to get abx even if it were viral. The side effects will clear up, his system will be fine.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
Mama Dragon is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:40 PM
 
BugMacGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm concerned that not everyone knows the importance of finishing courses of antibiotics once started. I thought that was pretty common knowledge. I guess doctors/ pharmacists aren't stressing that enough?
BugMacGee is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 04:31 PM
 
mamajama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugMacGee View Post
I'm concerned that not everyone knows the importance of finishing courses of antibiotics once started. I thought that was pretty common knowledge. I guess doctors/ pharmacists aren't stressing that enough?
I find that they don't stress it nearly enough considering how important it is!! It should be printed in giant RED letters on every bottle with a big warning sign.
mamajama is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 04:32 PM
 
mamajama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,985
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Dragon View Post
Zithromax is awesome. I remember when it first came out. Before then it was a really long course of amoxicillin for ear and other infections and kids just didn't do so well on it! Viral pneumonia wouldn't have responded to the abx. He would likely be still very sick if it was viral. Maybe better, but not much better like you report. You can safely assume it's bacterial just based on that. Going on that, now think about the low amount of abx he's gotten and how it's only killed the weakest bacteria, allowing him to seem better, but there's still bacteria in there. It's more important for him to get them JUST IN CASE. It will not harm him to get abx even if it were viral. The side effects will clear up, his system will be fine.
:
mamajama is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 09:38 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm just starting to read the thread. But, here are a few of my old posts about fevers, antibiotics, and antibiotic induced diarrhea, and alternative treatment options.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...r#post13182649
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=damage
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=fever
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...r#post13380198
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...r#post13380198

I am concerned with the duration of the illness with such a young child, since your OP is dated 10 days ago. I'll go read some more of the thread.


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 09:51 PM
 
monkeybum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, ON (Canada)
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm really glad you posted this and thank you to everyone for the info. I have found myself in this exact situation so many times, (twice with my older son when he was an infant - he's now 5yo, and 3 times my now 2-year old, the first time he was only 8 months old). They had the cough and wheezing, sometimes a fever, I take them to the doc only to get a note for work and they were diagnosed with pneumonia each time, (never via x-ray though). They were prescribed abx each time. I gave it for a day or two, they got better so I never finished the abx. I had no idea it was a bad idea. (The chest infection - whatever it was - never came back).

My 2 year old was diagnosed with pneumonia two more times this past winter (again, no chest xray) and I didn't even bother with the abx - just chiro visits, chest clapping, steamy baths, cold air, nursing, humidifier, etc.).

My chiropractor says that MDs are not generally used to breast-fed babies who are not vaccinated and who generally have strong immune systems, so they tend to over-prescribe abx. However, if I do use them in the future, I'll be sure to finish the dose. Thank you for this info!

OP, I hope your wee one is doing better. It is so scary and exhausting when they are that sick at such a young age.
monkeybum is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:05 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Dragon View Post
If "nature knew best", nature would know how to make all organisms live in harmony so we don't have MRSA attacking us. Nature just is. It doesn't know anything.
Ummm...we didn't have MRSA before we were an antibiotic-mongering culture. Natural antibiotics, natural antifungals, natural antiparasitics, natural antimicrobials have been around for eons. Same with microbials in our soil and environment. The mass commercialization of chemicals in our food and "medicine" is relevant to the development of MRSA, IMO.


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:27 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingmom View Post
While I appreciate the sentiment behind this post (and certainly don't intend to criticize the OP for seeking conventional medical treatment for a baby with pneumonia), I have to disagree strongly with the idea that's implied, i.e., that alternative medicine is somehow a lightweight option that's ineffective or inappropriate for truly serious problems. Having just read through this thread for the first time, I've noticed that "alternatives" have generally been presented in a very limited way. For instance, there have been references to things like Hyland's teething tablets, vitamin C, or just doing nothing and hoping for the best. To me, all of these would fall in the category of "home remedies." They may be helpful in many cases, but they're basically the alternative version of a dab of neosporin, an aspirin tablet, or some other simple and not-always-effective allopathic remedy. If you've tried them, and your child is still getting sicker and sicker, you clearly need to find something more effective, ASAP.

On the other hand, if we compare apples to apples... i.e., diagnosis and treatment by a skilled MD, vs. diagnosis and treatment by a skilled practitioner of an established alternative medical discipline... then the alternative approach is IMO a valid one, whether things are going "well" or "badly." Of course, there are some situations that are beyond the scope of these disciplines; nobody is going to be able to use homeopathy to re-attach a severed leg, or acupuncture to correct a congenital heart defect. But this is due to the type of ailment, not to its severity. For example, those who strongly support the homeopathic approach would rather choose an expert homeopath than an expert MD to treat an infection, even (or perhaps especially) if it were a potentially dangerous one. (Needless to say, it can be hard to find a real expert in any healing profession... which is why we would do well to form relationships with one or more trusted practitioners, before an emergency happens. Even if they can't solve the problem, they'll likely be able to refer us to someone who can.)

It seems as if a strong preference for alternative medical care -- even when our children are actually sick -- is somewhat of a minority view on this thread, and perhaps isn't even considered "respectable" by some people. That comes as a surprise, especially given the forum header:

Health and Healing is a forum for discussion that reaches beyond mainstream health care norms. It embraces the wide variety of natural and alternative healing modalities as well as necessary conventional medical care. To further this aim please use the term "health care practitioner" rather than "doctor" to embrace the reality that there are other professionals out there to consult for health care needs.


Anyway, just to add my 2 cents on the topic of medicating a feverish child: I'll do it on occasion (usually with ibuprofen), if he or she seems really miserable and nothing else is helping. I don't medicate for the fever itself, though I probably would if it stayed at 105 for a significant length of time. In that case, the medication would be my last step before going to the ER -- as it's the first thing they're going to ask about when you get there, anyway. And this does make sense, from a diagnostic perspective. A fever of 105 that's reducible to 101 with medication, is a very different beast from a fever that's still at 105 after medication.

It's also important to note that a fever "breaking" isn't the same thing as a fever going down due to antipyretics. When a fever is lowered artificially, the patient might seem somewhat relieved, but the illness itself is just as strong as ever. As a PP said, Tylenol can certainly make people more comfortable, but it doesn't cure anything.

When a fever breaks on its own, it's a dramatic change: the patient is immediately, noticeably better; and recovery is generally very rapid afterward. It's obvious what's happening, even without a thermometer. I've read about this many times in older books, but have only personally experienced it once, in the small hours of the morning after my son had been treated homeopathically for his croup. It was amazing to see, though also kind of scary. After the remedy, his fever (which had been moderate) started going up and up... and then crossed 105, and then... just as I was wondering if I should give him the Advil, or start packing up to go to the hospital... POOF, it was all over. His breathing went back to normal, his face relaxed and lost its flushed look, and he fell into a deep, restful sleep. Just like the old-time books said. And he hasn't had croup since.

: : :


Last fall sometime, ds (at age 7) had fever, diarrhea, vomiting, lethargy for about 24-48 hours. Temp max 104, up and down to 102. At about 48 hoiurs, we gave a homeopathic remedy specifically for those symptoms and he was significantly improved, and got up to play and fever went down. Part of the symptom picture when choosing a remedy were that he had no thirst at the time. It was amazing, literally, just after the remedy he said "I'm thirsty" and drank a whole glass of water and kept it down!

When fever, diarrhea, vomiting and lethargy resumed about the same time 24 hours later, again I dosed the homeopathic remedy and he felt better within an hour and fever was no longer present. He no longer had symptoms. Perhaps, it had "just run its course"; but the benefit to his fever, diarrhea, vomiting and lethargy were immediate.


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:34 PM
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:40 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is more information regarding avoiding drug-resistant bacteria: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5&postcount=12

Basically, UNNECESSARY antibiotics are the cause, not avoiding antibiotics when NOT needed.

Drug resistance results when a bacterial infection is not being treated adequately (broad spectrum antibiotics vs. bacterial specific antibiotics), or when antibiotics are given for viral illnesses inappropriately. The bacteria develop resistance due to *exposure* to the "wrong" (ie. ineffective) antibiotics. If the antibiotic is the appropriate one, the infectious bacteria are killed. Antibiotics are NOT indicated for a viral illness.

Continuing exposure to the antibiotics unnecessarily, just strengthens the potential for resistance TO develop. http://www.cdc.gov/NARMS/faq_pages/3.htm

Here is info from the FDA regarding "The Rice of Antibiotic Resistant Infections": http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/795_antibio.html

"Superbugs" develop due to inappropriate use of *multiple different* antibiotics. "Several studies have demonstrated that patterns of antibiotic usage greatly affect the number of resistant organisms which develop. Overuse of broad-spectrum antibiotics, such as second- and third-generation cephalosporins, greatly hastens the development of methicillin resistance. Other factors contributing towards resistance include incorrect diagnosis, unnecessary prescriptions, improper use of antibiotics by patients, the impregnation of household items and children's toys with low levels of antibiotics, and the administration of antibiotics by mouth in livestock for growth promotion."

"Improper use of antibiotics by patients" is when the antibiotic given is indicated, but the patient doesn't continue it for the duration to effectively kill the bacteria. There is no indication for antibiotics in simple ear infections, based upon the research, noted above.

"
Multiple resistance, multiple causes
Any time bacteria are exposed to an antibiotic, they are under "selective pressure" that allows only resistant forms to survive and reproduce. So the basic rule in slowing the evolution of resistance is reducing the unnecessary use of antibiotics."
http://whyfiles.org/038badbugs/scope.html


"
Every time antibiotics are used unnecessarily, they add to the selective pressure we are putting on microbes to evolve resistance. Then, when we really need antibiotics, they are less effective." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/li.../l_104_03.html


http://www.thebulletin.org/web-editi...stant-bacteria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistance
http://www.cdcfoundation.org/healtht...esistance.aspx

superbugs, infections that are drug-resistant because of the over-prescription of antibiotics.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in614935.shtml


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:43 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, yes, one round of antibiotics can damage the gut integrity and immune system: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...078&highlight=

The mama's baby developed C.Diff with just a short round of unnecessary antibiotics.


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Amylcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybum View Post
I'm really glad you posted this and thank you to everyone for the info. I have found myself in this exact situation so many times, (twice with my older son when he was an infant - he's now 5yo, and 3 times my now 2-year old, the first time he was only 8 months old). They had the cough and wheezing, sometimes a fever, I take them to the doc only to get a note for work and they were diagnosed with pneumonia each time, (never via x-ray though). They were prescribed abx each time. I gave it for a day or two, they got better so I never finished the abx. I had no idea it was a bad idea. (The chest infection - whatever it was - never came back).

My 2 year old was diagnosed with pneumonia two more times this past winter (again, no chest xray) and I didn't even bother with the abx - just chiro visits, chest clapping, steamy baths, cold air, nursing, humidifier, etc.).

My chiropractor says that MDs are not generally used to breast-fed babies who are not vaccinated and who generally have strong immune systems, so they tend to over-prescribe abx. However, if I do use them in the future, I'll be sure to finish the dose. Thank you for this info!

OP, I hope your wee one is doing better. It is so scary and exhausting when they are that sick at such a young age.

Are you saying your children are generally healthy? Because this makes me think that their immune systems are not working as they should be.

Quote:
My 2 year old was diagnosed with pneumonia two more times this past winter
Two more times this past winter? As in, they have had pneumonia multiple times in their life and two times in one winter?

Quote:
My chiropractor says that MDs are not generally used to breast-fed babies who are not vaccinated and who generally have strong immune systems, so they tend to over-prescribe abx.
I can not see a child with a strong immune system getting pneumonia this often.

knit.gifMom of Many  jumpers.gif

Amylcd is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Mama Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Apparently on MDC
Posts: 10,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
...
You do realize before antibiotics were developed that LOTS of people died from infections, and you do also realized that bacteria mutated all on it's lonesome before then?

Antibiotics are over prescribed. Yes. They have caused super bugs to develop. Yes. We.still.need.them.

Amy ~ Web Designing Single Mom to 4: DD14, DS12, DS5, DS3
Mama Dragon is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:07 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Dragon View Post
You do realize before antibiotics were developed that LOTS of people died from infections, and you do also realized that bacteria mutated all on it's lonesome before then?

Antibiotics are over prescribed. Yes. They have caused super bugs to develop. Yes. We.still.need.them.
I agree wholeheartedly that antibiotics are a WONDERFUL thing in so many situations.

However I have read in numerous places that the usefulness of antibiotics is SEVERELY limited time-wise and we are reaching the end of their run. It is likely that within our lifetime, and nearly certain that within our children or grandchildren's lifetime that antibiotics will no longer be useful.

Interesting (and admittedly scary!) idea to ponder.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:09 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mama, I believe that the "symptoms" have resolved due to the prednisone. I agree that bacterial pneumonia may NOT have a fever. However, your baby DID have a fever. Prednisone could *mask* the fever. The prednisone also resolves the fluid and wheezing, the lack of symptoms AFTER taking prednisone does not indicate that baby is "better", IMO.

When we suppress the reactions with antihistamines or steroids, the toxins are not eliminated. We just halt the body's ability to respond to the toxin and to remove it. Thus the toxins affect other body organs: lungs (asthma), gut (more and more allergies develop), stomach (poor digestion, reflux, ulcers), mouth (thrush, dental cavities, gingivitis), liver overloaded, etc. (but those aren't the acute issues, yet)

Also, the skin is an excretory mechanism for us to eliminate toxins. Does baby have any eczema, green mucusy stools, red ring around anus, rash, reflux, restless sleep "normally"?

However, I do NOT AGREE that "once one starts antibiotics, that one must finish antibiotic" IN THE EVENT of them being *unnecessary in the first place*
, like with an ear infection in a child over age 2, or after antibiotic-induced diarrhea has started.

0800AM tomorrow morning, *I* would call the MD's office and notify them of the extensive and continuing diarrhea, which I believe is a much more dangerous problem than a fever in an infant. I would have a medical assessment of baby's lungs and hydration, for a professional opinion about the current "wellness". If MD feels that further antibiotic treatment is indicated, they will prescribe a DIFFERENT antibiotic. I'd also INSIST they send a stool for C. Diff, since the diarrhea has been ongoing. I would Not give the same antibiotic further. Nor would I wait until Monday to have my child medically assessed. I'd call FOR AN APPOINTMENT first thing in the morning, whoever is covering for the MD.

I would not have treated the fever, wheeze, cough with antibiotics without first consulting our professional homeopath. However, when one is wheezing, it means that their oxygen intake is impaired. Wheezing IS dangerous. There isn't "ok" wheezing.

The issue is that wheezing is a symptom that your baby's immune system is impaired. Why? Unfortunately, steroids and antibiotics further suppress the immune system. *I* would see a professional homeopath immediately, personally. There are many alternatives to improve the immune function. I imagine there is some underlying allergy issue, either environemental or dietary.

Basically, the medical treatments just masked the symptoms. Doesn't mean your baby is "better", imo.

Here is more information about eliminating environmental allergens: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...l#post13380214

I'd recommend consulting a professional homeopath for prescribing a classical homeopathic remedy specifically for his individual constitution. The homeopath would take into consideration other issues and address them concurrently, as they are part of the picture: dietary issues, sleep, eczema, the runny eyes, throat clearing, behaviors, fears, aversions, cravings, etc. All come into play, birth issues, chronic illness, etc.

I always prefer whole food probiotics.
Not sure which probiotics you all are using. But, none of the bottled probiotics have the same ability to withstand the stomach acid and remain viable into the large intestine as non-dairy kefir, fermented vegetables. Those are quite easy, if you need more info.

I would eliminate dairy from your diet. Dairy is the most common source of dietary allergen and mucus production. Here is a list of hidden diary: http://www.kellymom.com/store/handou...dden-dairy.pdf

I recommend vitamins and minerals come from whole foods. But, have you been following the digestion, absorption, detox pathways discussions to gut healing and allergy resolution? Basically, if we digest the proteins, they don't leak and thus we have fewer toxins to detox. Proper stomach acid (HCl) and specific nutrients are required for detox. You can read more about all of this here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...e#post13406780

Corn seems to be an issue for many folks, especially GMO-corn, which is about 70% of the food supply now, unfortunately. I'd consider eliminating that. But, it is hard as it is everywhere also. http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php

I'm no expert about gluten removal, but I believe I heard 6-12 weeks to see significant improvements. Dairy is quicker to see improvements (1-3 weeks). Gluten is hard to avoid completely also. And apparently, it is more important to be 100% gluten-free, or reactions are worse with any slight exposure, I believe.

Corn and wheat allergies are more commonly associated with wheezing, I believe.



HTH, Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:22 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Dragon View Post
You do realize before antibiotics were developed that LOTS of people died from infections, and you do also realized that bacteria mutated all on it's lonesome before then?

Antibiotics are over prescribed. Yes. They have caused super bugs to develop. Yes. We.still.need.them.
I'm not "against" antibiotics. I am a advocate of optimizing our immune system, preferably with natural microbial balance in the gut, nutrient dense whole foods (especially cultured and fermented probiotics), and natural exposure to common diseases, and avoidance of unnecessary chemicals including pharmaceuticals for those common illnesses. I believe we can avoid and treat most diseases with nutrition and holistic health practices. Unfortunately, most people are not informed and healthy enough to choose a non-mainstream alternative. There is a cascade of side-effects and consequences of our mainstream health choices, ime.

Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:38 PM
 
Maeve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That's all well and good for prevention, but this isn't the time. Also, this child is obviously not healthy and needs treatment.
Please take your lo to be looked at again just to make sure that everything is ok. I'm not one to take meds or run to the dr. for every little thing, but breathing issues (esp. in a baby) is not something to mess with. I'm glad he seems to be doing better, but when it comes to my kids, I like to be sure. Kwim?
Maeve is offline  
Old 04-16-2009, 02:46 AM
 
Scullery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You're basically outlining a medical treatment plan for her to follow, and I don't know if that is a good idea. She already sounds confused and overwhelmed, suggesting a C-diff culture and an allergy elimination diet protocol is not very effective. This is a little baby, too. Poor bug.
Scullery is offline  
Old 04-16-2009, 04:20 AM
 
purplepaisleymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not a medical professional but I do have a child who has had reactions to every abx that he has been prescribed. I will say that I have never been told by any of his doctors to have him continue a rx that he was reacting to. He has had diarrhea and vomiting and hives from taking an rx and they have always told me to discontinue the rx and they have said that if he were sick enough to have to have continued that they would use another rx. He is now considered allergic to more than 4 abx and if he were to need to take penicillin he would have to be hospitalized and desensitized to it. We have discussed this thoroughly with more than one of his docs as he is immune compromised and he has been very ill lately.
Last week he did have a very severe illness and his fever reached 106.5, I thought that our thermometer was broken and I found two more and used them, they were both the same. I had not had a child ever have a fever over 105 and I called his doctor. He was comfortable with us monitoring him at home and though he did have fever seizures, he has had them before and we were watching him. After the fever began to interfere with his sleep I gave him motrin. He threw it up and continued to do so the next two times that I have it to him. His fever broke at around 4:30 that morning. It was exactly as a pp described, he visibly relaxed and drifted into a restful sleep. Our children all ended up with the plague and they all reacted differently to the fever, a few were up and about with higher than 104 playing and a few went to bed and slept from just over a hundred. They all revovered at the same rate, regardless of the med given. Though I do not medicate often I did give tylenol if it was requested for headache, they never asked for it to relieve the fever.
In the past 4 years we have used less than one box of childrens tylenol for my older children, my youngest is another story. He has been different and has health issues that have made me have to reassess my parenting decisions and how we view medicine.

I do think that you have done a great job as a mother, your child is very important to you and it is very hard to not be stressed while in the midst of a health crisis with your child. You made decisions based on what you knew best at the time and you are learning more to educate yourself to help him for the future .......that is what parenting is. Please do not think yourself a failure, you are doing everything you can for your child. I would call your doctor and speak directly with him, if he is not available I would talk with his backup as soon as possible and discuss all of the choices you have made, be clear that you did not finish the abx and see what they suggest. I would guess that they will change the rx to another drug that may not have the same reaction and might test for c diff as that is a danger with any abx, especially with the severe diarrhea. They will be concerned about that as small children can dehydrate very quickly and it sounds as if he had some issues with this already in this illness. I hope that he and you feel better soon and that you can begin to feel more confident in your decisions as a parent.
Hugs mama

Laura

laura, dh Brian, ds Rory 14, dd Ellie 13, ds Caelan 11, ds Seamus 9, ds Finn 7 and Penelope 2 !!!!

purplepaisleymama is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off