103 fever in 6.5 month old WWYD? UPDATE post #52 - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-17-2009, 01:06 PM
 
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Absolutely. My sixteen month old had a horrific reaction to a sulpha based antibiotic. It's important to document, and to not be afraid to be pushy with health care providers. Remember - they're there to help you.

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Old 04-17-2009, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Dragon View Post
momofmine, honest question here - would you have a 6 month old baby diagnosed with pneumonia, and not give them antibiotics? Do you understand how deadly pneumonia is?

I'm guessing the answer is yes, and I'm guessing you'll say you'd do other natural healing methods in addition to the abx, and that's fine. But a baby with pnuemonia needs abx. Everything the OP has said has indicated her baby has a bacterial infection - mostly because he started getting better while on the abx. Do you think it's not indicated here? No vague answers, please. I'm talking about OP, 6 month old baby, pneumonia that is most likely bacterial.
Actually baby began getting "better" (ie. fewer symptoms) on Prednisone, a steroid which suppresses the inflamatory reactions. Baby had 'cold like symptoms', runny nose, etc. BEFORE the "diagnosis" of pneumonia. A chest X-ray has subjective interpretation, and in no way indicates bacterial or viral origin. Only a culture and sensitivity could declare this is a "bacterial" pneumonia. Labs could also indicate some viral or bacterial origin. I didn't read the whole thread, but there was some lab, iirc. ??

The onset of fever, further indicates a likely viral origin. Bacterial pneumonia in a healthy infant is less likely than viral origin, imo.

I would do alternative health for respiratory illness, and only antibiotics with a confirmed sputum for C&S.

A healthy body CAN handle bacterial pneumonia. It is not always deadly, as suggested. More likely, is an aspirate pneumonia, if it were in the right upper lobe. And plenty of folks recover from mild aspirate pneumonia without antibiotics. There are many sources and degrees of "pneumonia". This baby was obviously ill. But, I disagree with "Everything the OP has said has indicated her baby has a bacterial infection - mostly because he started getting better while on the abx.".

Viral pneumonia does not need antibiotics, unless baby has progressively not improved and is at significant risk of developing a SECONDARY bacterial infection. The steroid eliminates the excess mucus and allows improved airway exchange, that alone will improve healing.

I agree that it is very important to TRUST the assessment and intervention skills of your health care provider.




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Old 04-17-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ceinwen View Post
The one issue I hope we all agree on though, is that once you start taking an antibiotic, for the love of G!d - please finish the course. You're setting your system up for a losing battle. Take the rest, then marshal your resources and do research for what seems to suit your health/medical stance best.
No, I do NOT agree. Please see posted links regarding administration of UNNECESSARY antibiotics in viral illness. Posts #140, 141, 142 in this thread.


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Old 04-17-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
however, if you or your child is having a reaction you find unacceptable- IMMEDIATELY go back to your care provider and explain. See what they say. In some cases/situations it may be okay to end early, in others there may be an alternate antibiotic to finish off with. But don't just stop on your own.

We all need to be more cognizant and judicious in our antibiotic use if we want them to be any use to our grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

-Angela

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Old 04-17-2009, 03:30 PM
 
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No, I do NOT agree. Please see posted links regarding administration of UNNECESSARY antibiotics in viral illness. Posts #140, 141, 142 in this thread.


Pat
Sorry Pat, I just disagree with your link.

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Old 04-17-2009, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WOW...i've been off line since wednesday...THANK YOU WuWei....i respect your wisdom and knowledge.
To clear somethings up: Doc did mention blood testing to rule out bac vs. viral...however we decided that it would be traumatic for baby...so i decline.
Baby's fever dropped the day before he was dx with pneumonia.
The xray was done in a GP's office.....the GP dx'd himself.
Not sure if a Radiologist dx'd xray.
A oxygen level was not taken on baby the day of pneumonia diagnosis.
Baby saw chiro same day xray and diagnosis...same day first dose of antibiotic/predinsone was taken.
Babys stool's started to be super runny with in 8 hours of first dose of abx.
I went through 42 diapers in 3 days.
I called the doctors office on wed..they called back thursday..our doc is out of town till monday....his nurse called me back....our conversation was a waste of time....i told her exactly what i have told you all....she gave me advice without checking with another dr......her personal advice was this:
"finish what you have left of the abx...give the baby yogurt..to help with his bowls."...i said "my baby is only 7 months old today...he has not started solids...we are not offering him dairy until he is 18+ months or more"...well then you can talk to dr on your appointment day..if baby gets a fever or starts coughing take him to the ER".
I saw that talking with her was going no where....
So my plan is this...as i have pondered over what is the right thing to do all week.
Cont with the chiro/accupuncture.....mama's taking echineacha(sp) 3 times a day....ebf..offering no solids...watching baby for clues...see doc on monday.
I talked to a NP yesterday who mentioned colidoil silver....has anyone used this for a baby?
I've been told that it works wonders....
I am leaving the states in 1 week to back to our hometown in MX.....we will be close to the TX/MX border...so i can cross over if any need arises me to.

There is a wealth of info in this thread....i have learned so much...but i've also learned that my mama instinct is a powerful one.....i must listen to my mama energy.
This is baby number 4 for me.....all of my children have taught me what i know today...i'm also a LC and have somewhat of a medical back ground.
I feel comfortable listening to my mama energy. It's always lead me in the right direction.
I felt that i did what was best for my baby at the time. I have let go of the guilty feelings...as i realize i did what my energy told me to do.
I am a awesome mama..a super woman mama...And my baby will be healthy and strong.

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Old 04-17-2009, 06:44 PM
 
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Yes, you should really REALLY finish the antibiotics. Otherwise the pneumonia might soon be back, only a lot WORSE. People often start to feel better when the abx start working. That does not mean you don't have to finish them.
Haven't read all the threads, but stopping antibiotics is how superbugs are created. If that antibiotic is causing that much diarrhea, you can ask for another one instead.

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Old 04-17-2009, 07:33 PM
 
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If baby is ill still, I'd go to urgent care for an assessment.


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Old 04-17-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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I would be very, very nervous travelling with a baby that young and that sick, if you felt the need to seek help it must have been bad, and now to ignore the advice of the provider you saw and lots of people on this board - well, it's frightening, to be honest. Is there any way you can postpone your trip? I think you are risking your baby's health and well-being. Pneumonia can go wrong very, very quickly.

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Old 04-17-2009, 08:02 PM
 
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I say this as gently as possible, but there is a lot more to science than instincts. Please, please, please (!!!) continue to have your baby monitored as closely as possible by a doctor that knows that the baby was diagnosed with pneumonia, you declined a blood test and also discontinued the abx before the cycle was complete. I really hope baby gets a clean bill of health. Good luck.
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To put it like this....My baby is not ill anymore....with in 2 days..of the pneumonia dx.... his cough and wheezing went away....he is happy, nursing well, sleeping well, playing well...am i supposed to sit here and wait for my baby to get sick again? No...he is fine...if anything comes up i will take action asap.
We are going to see the doctor on monday to get "that clean bill of health".
My baby is 7 months today, weighs 20+pounds...he is ok.

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Old 04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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Well, hopefully you are right. It's not the decision I would've made, but we all have different comfort levels.
Please keep us updated!
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Old 04-17-2009, 10:57 PM
 
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To put it like this....My baby is not ill anymore....with in 2 days..of the pneumonia dx.... his cough and wheezing went away
Yeah, it did with step father too. I really hope your child is ok, and does not end up like him.

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Old 04-17-2009, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's keep apples to apples here.

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Old 04-18-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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How is it so different?
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:17 AM
 
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Yeah, it did with step father too. I really hope your child is ok, and does not end up like him.
My DH too - he seemed completely fine when we arrived in the ER last week but blood tests and XRays diagnosed bacterial pneumonia. He was hospitalized for 4 days on heavy duty antibiotics via IV and was only released because his fever fell below 100 for more than 24 hours. We have already been back to the Dr for one follow up Xray and will return next week to see if the pneumonia has cleared. The Dr made a point of having us understand that if not completely treated and cleared from the lungs it can and most certainly will return worse than before. My hubby sure seems fine now after the antibiotics are in him but there is no way in hell that we are risking his life because he seems to be better, no way.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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Let's keep apples to apples here.
You're right - it isn't really fair to compare our husbands and step fathers to your child - an infant is at a far greater risk of developing complications from untreated pneumonia than an adult would be considering their immature immune system.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:39 AM
 
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I felt that i did what was best for my baby at the time. I have let go of the guilty feelings...as i realize i did what my energy told me to do.
I am a awesome mama..a super woman mama...And my baby will be healthy and strong.
good for you. im glad your baby is feeling better. just came back to see how all is going with you (took awhile to find your update).

im not into telling another mama what she should/should not do, but i definitely agree that mama instinct is a huge thing to listen to. sounds like you are listening.

have a good trip.
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:02 AM
 
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I hope the baby continues to be well.

As for colloidal silver, honestly, I will never understand the recommendation to use this for illness on this board. Studies have shown that there are much better medicines out there to treat illnesses than colloidal silver. Not to mention the HUGE concern about thimerosal and aluminum as heavy metals, but folks are willing to give silver? Silver builds up in the body.
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Old 04-18-2009, 03:49 AM
 
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Haven't read all the threads, but stopping antibiotics is how superbugs are created. If that antibiotic is causing that much diarrhea, you can ask for another one instead.
:. people seem to comparing this class of antibiotics to something like (overused) hand sanitizers.

OP, we can't/won't tell you what you should do, so no comments on that front. ultimately, people listen to what they want to hear.

but, this is a very, very young baby who has just been through a illness. to *me*, it seems less than optimal, to travel at this time. wishing you guys the best.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's best for me to not post here anymore....as this thread has taken a negative turn. I refuse to listen to anymore negativity.
Thanks to all the mama's who have been supportive and who listened when i need them to.
A

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Old 04-18-2009, 12:35 PM
 
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I think it's best for me to not post here anymore....as this thread has taken a negative turn. I refuse to listen to anymore negativity.
Thanks to all the mama's who have been supportive and who listened when i need them to.
A

How does concern=negativity? Nobody here is tryting to make you feel bad, we are just trying to stress how serious it can be and how esp. with infants, we feel it is best to err on the side of caution. Not everyone feels that way, I understand, but we at least wanted you to hear the other side.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:43 PM
 
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I think it's best for me to not post here anymore....as this thread has taken a negative turn. I refuse to listen to anymore negativity.
Thanks to all the mama's who have been supportive and who listened when i need them to.
A
You only took the advice of posters who gave you advice you wanted to hear. I really, really hope your DS doesn't have pneumonia because if it comes back, it's going to be harder to fight. I truly wish your son the best health. I hope this is the worst you have to deal with.

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Old 04-18-2009, 01:29 PM
 
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I'm awed that folks believe that whatever broad spectrum antibiotic was prescribed is perceived to be the "correct" medication and panacea.

I trust the mama to listen to her baby, her heart, and to want what is best for her baby. We all make decisions based upon what we believe and what we feel is "best" for us, individually, in the moment with incomplete information. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.

Assuming baby has bacteria A, and if antibiotic for bacteria B is prescribed, she is no better or worse for having not taken the antibiotic. Only if antibiotic B was indicated, is is useful. Antibiotics are not indicated for treating viral illness. I would want a more complete diagnosis before taking an antibiotic which could be *unnecessary* and *harmful*. I would seek further assessment IF baby is ill. Mama indicates baby is no longer ill. I don't recall the exact dates baby had the couple doses of antibiotics, but it is about a week ago. Seems that the situation is resolved.

I would be reluctant to fly within 4 weeks of a "diagnosis" of pneumonia, personally. And I'm still concerned that wheezing is not normal in a healthy infant. So, I'd seek an *underlying* reason for the immune system impairment.



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Old 04-18-2009, 01:55 PM
 
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I trust the mama to listen to her baby, her heart, and to want what is best for her baby. We all make decisions based upon what we believe and what we feel is "best" for us, individually, in the moment with incomplete information. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.
IMHO, the belief that individual feelings and "mama intuition" are unerring when making medical decisions is even more dangerous.

I wish the best for the OP's baby.
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:06 PM
 
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I'm awed that folks believe that whatever broad spectrum antibiotic was prescribed is perceived to be the "correct" medication and panacea.

I trust the mama to listen to her baby, her heart, and to want what is best for her baby. We all make decisions based upon what we believe and what we feel is "best" for us, individually, in the moment with incomplete information. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.

Assuming baby has bacteria A, and if antibiotic for bacteria B is prescribed, she is no better or worse for having not taken the antibiotic. Only if antibiotic B was indicated, is is useful. Antibiotics are not indicated for treating viral illness. I would want a more complete diagnosis before taking an antibiotic which could be *unnecessary* and *harmful*. I would seek further assessment IF baby is ill. Mama indicates baby is no longer ill. I don't recall the exact dates baby had the couple doses of antibiotics, but it is about a week ago. Seems that the situation is resolved.

I would be reluctant to fly within 4 weeks of a "diagnosis" of pneumonia, personally. And I'm still concerned that wheezing is not normal in a healthy infant. So, I'd seek an *underlying* reason for the immune system impairment.



Pat

Unfortunately, cultures and sensitivities take time 48-72 hours in some cases. Meanwhile, baby is getting sicker. You treat with broad spectrum first, then once the c&s comes back, you can treat more specifically. It's not that the broad spectrums don't work, they just kill ALL the bacteria. And the c&s require blood, urine, spinal fluid, in this case, maybe sputum, or whatever happens to be the infection sourse.
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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Unfortunately, cultures and sensitivities take time 48-72 hours in some cases. Meanwhile, baby is getting sicker. You treat with broad spectrum first, then once the c&s comes back, you can treat more specifically. It's not that the broad spectrum don't work, they just kill ALL the bacteria. And the c&s require blood, urine, spinal fluid, in this case, maybe sputum, or whatever happens to be the infection source.
Ummm...not exactly. C&S do take time. A broad spectrum antibiotic doesn't kill ALL bacteria; or we wouldn't need so many different antibiotics, if one killed all and every type of bacteria. Unfortunately, there ARE antibiotic-resistant bacteria, precisely BECAUSE of over-prescribing of unnecessary broad-spectrum antibiotics, by MDs.

C&S of urine is not indicated for respiratory illness. Blood and spinal cultures are not indicated on outpatient basis. "Meanwhile, baby is getting sicker" is speculative, not based in OP's experience. Yes, it is beneficial to get C&S based on infection source, we agree.

There are many alternatives for treating respiratory illness other than antibiotics. I would not treat with antibiotics as the first alternative, BECAUSE I don't want to be feeding antibiotics to bacteria unnecessarily and CAUSING the bacteria to become antibiotic-resistant, in my child or myself.


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Old 04-18-2009, 04:19 PM
 
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C&S of urine is not indicated for respiratory illness. Blood and spinal cultures are not indicated on outpatient basis. "Meanwhile, baby is getting sicker" is speculative, not based in OP's experience. Yes, it is beneficial to get C&S based on infection source, we agree.
C+S of urine is SOP for sick infants, blood and spinal cultures for infants seen in ERs. Infants are not little adults, their illness patterns are unique to their age and development, and not entirely comparable to research on adults.

To the OP, I understand wanting to bow out of this thread. My comments have been based entirely on love and concern for your little boy. I hope you finished the antibiotic course and he continues to thrive.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:28 PM
 
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I'm awed that folks believe that whatever broad spectrum antibiotic was prescribed is perceived to be the "correct" medication and panacea.

I trust the mama to listen to her baby, her heart, and to want what is best for her baby. We all make decisions based upon what we believe and what we feel is "best" for us, individually, in the moment with incomplete information. We are unable to be all knowing, including MDs. And the belief that physicians are all knowing, is dangerous, imo.

Assuming baby has bacteria A, and if antibiotic for bacteria B is prescribed, she is no better or worse for having not taken the antibiotic. Only if antibiotic B was indicated, is is useful. Antibiotics are not indicated for treating viral illness. I would want a more complete diagnosis before taking an antibiotic which could be *unnecessary* and *harmful*. I would seek further assessment IF baby is ill. Mama indicates baby is no longer ill. I don't recall the exact dates baby had the couple doses of antibiotics, but it is about a week ago. Seems that the situation is resolved.

I would be reluctant to fly within 4 weeks of a "diagnosis" of pneumonia, personally. And I'm still concerned that wheezing is not normal in a healthy infant. So, I'd seek an *underlying* reason for the immune system impairment.



Pat
I somewhat agree with you, but once she started giving the baby antibiotics, to me she is obligated to continue to do so. If she didn't want to, she shouldn't have started them. Full stop.

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Old 04-18-2009, 04:30 PM
 
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I have a lot of experience with infants with pneumonia. We don't usually know the pathogen causing it right away. Time is critical with these kids. If it is bacterial and we've awaited 48 hours for the cultures to grow to start treatment, well, let's just say that that's way too long. And often, there are secondary bacterial infections.

So, in some cases, the antibiotics may in retrospect be "unnecessary" but who wants to take that chance just to avoid antibiotics?

I too hope that the OP's little one is doing well.
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