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#121 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 10:24 PM
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As far as our office prescribing Tamiflu, we would rather not, but we will if you insist. I promise you that I personally am purchasing none for my family and would recommend the same to you.
Yes, and here is my REAL fear about all of this. People are going to start taking Tamiflu left and right. And what do viruses do when you attack them with anti-virals? The mutate and get STONGER. I understand people with flu wanting to take Tamiflu, especially in this case where there have been a number of deaths, but what on earth are we going to create? Not to fear monger, but I do fear that the worst is yet to come....

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#122 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 10:35 PM
 
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I think the disruption to the economy has already begun. With travel warnings to the US and some countries banning meat imports from the US.... the last thing we need is another industry taking a economic hit. The financial markets have already taken hits.
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#123 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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I live in the Bay Area. I just read that a case has been confirmed in Sacramento. Bummer. So now it is in Northern California. I live in a 80% predominantly Mexican community. I emailed DH this morning and told him to just go home and not go anywhere in town. We work in a different town so I told him to shop there and and only go home to sleep. I am in Florida right now and am a bit freaked out about traveling home in a week as the plane goes through Texas.

I would say too, that DH and I likely had the flu this February. DD was sick but well within 3-4 days. We were really ill for a week. I was hit hard with chills, fever and aches. Makes me wonder... was it just regular flu or have there been cases around during flu season and it just was passed off as regular flu?
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#124 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 10:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wugmama View Post
This page was about the avian flu but I think stuff still applies. Also, it talks about the cytokine storms and what to avoid to help prevent that. Kimchi is on the list of things to avoid, as is echinacea and spirulina.

A lot of good info here though:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

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Interesting! Does anyone know of a website or reference where you would figure out what the dosages on these would be? I see it does say which ones are safe for kids and nurslings and which aren't, that's helpful!

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#125 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 10:59 PM
 
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not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.

I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172
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#126 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:03 PM
 
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HI all,
Haven't read all this thread yet but thought I'd post this link to an article on influenza prevention from the Medical Herbalism journal. I thought it was pretty interesting. I think we are going to focus on Vit D and Cod liver oil especially for my mom and DS. Then add in a lot of nutrient dense foods to get the other vitamins reccomended.

http://naimh.com/Influenza-prevention.pdf
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#127 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:04 PM
 
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Having just come back from a week in mexico (puerto vallarta), I guess I should be more worried than I am, but really, I'm more worried about all the panic this is causing people. this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I guess working as a nurse, I see all the nasty bacteria out there and that truly is more frightening to me. it used to be that bugs like C.Diff, MSRA and VRE were only in the old with immune-compromised systems, but now I see it in the postpartum unit. Or in people with simple infections that are strong, otherwise healthy young people.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain. Yes, we should prepare. But it is not causing a high death rate in the US, and the normal, yearly flu kills more than 36K each year! And how many children have died from just getting their vaccines and the complications that follow?

I am pretty certain we had the flu this year and last, in fact, we seem to get it every year and we have been very, very sick. I don't want to get the flu again, but I know it's a certainty that I will, either now or in the future. But I don't panic about it day and night. That wouldn't make sense.

I hope people take a step back, turn off the tv and computer for a day or two, and get a little reality. Go out, enjoy the day, live normally, and don't worry about something you can't control anyway.

I see people buying masks left and right, but they are being misused anyway. If you have a mask on to protect you, then use your hands to put it on and off, adjust it, etc. and better yet, take if off and leave it to wear the next day, it's totally useless!!! You are going to get whatever you touched on there anyway!

Just my opinion, I realize everyone has an opinion on this. but the truth is, no one knows much about this virus, and the public can't do much anyway!
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#128 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:08 PM
 
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not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.

I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172
Good link! I like these two for basics of swine flu symptoms and good hygiene -- one on pregnancy, one on baby health and swine flu...

http://www.babyzone.com/pregnancy/photos_1025670

http://www.babyzone.com/loadpage/aut...p?authorid=412

It's all about hand washing!
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#129 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:08 PM
 
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not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.

I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172
Me too

Even with my DD's lung issues, I can not bring myself to be overly worried about this.

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#130 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:39 PM
 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...utbreak-source

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The state government of Veracruz in eastern Mexico has confirmed one case of swine flu in the village of La Gloria with the sufferer named locally as a four-year-old boy, Edgar Hernandez Hernandez. The federal government said tonight that he tested positive for the same strain of the virus which has claimed lives in Mexico.
Wow.

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#131 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:51 PM
 
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I was wondering how flus pass from animals to humans? Does Monsanto genetically modify them or something?
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#132 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:53 PM
 
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I am not particularly terrified of this, though I will be a little cautious and keep an eye on the happenings, as well as use it as an opportunity to make sure I am eating healthy (which I have been slacking on lately). According to the media, we should all be dead of mad cow disease (well, really Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease), SARS, the avian flu, anthrax, and all the other "OMG we all might die any minute!" blips on the media radar.

I was wondering one thing, though. I had the Taiwan flu when I was younger (about 20 years ago), which was an influenza A H1N1. I don't know if that exposure would help or hinder me if I happened to catch this newer one, being that it does funky things with the immune system. Any thoughts? Thanks!
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#133 of 481 Old 04-27-2009, 11:59 PM
 
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this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain.
But the problem is that technically, flu season is "over". So the fact that in a matter of days, the number of cases is doubling or tripling, indicates more than a regular flu. There are many questions to this. I read a good article but I lost the link that asks why the deaths in Mexico and not here.

Edited: Here is the Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/he...8docs.html?hpw


it addresses it as a possible bias and that we are not concentrating on hospitals as much as they are there. I will try to find the link again. It also talks about the bind the CDC and governments are in. If this is "nothing" and it peters out, then this will be hysteria and panic all for naught. But if it does spread uncontrollably, and the CDC and various governments don't alert the public, then they will be held accountable. It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't position for health officials to be in right now.

Also, it's more than a new strain. It's a strain that's a combination of FOUR different viral genetic material. It is a viral pea soup and very unusual.


Quote:
Preliminary testing of viruses from the first two patients shows that they are very similar. Additional testing is ongoing with the newer isolettes. We know so far that the viruses contain genetic pieces from four different virus sources. This is unusual. The first is our North American swine influenza viruses. North American avian influenza viruses, human influenza viruses and swine influenza viruses found in Asia and Europe.
http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090423.htm

Because the virus is a reassortment virus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassortment) , the long term fear is if this continues to spread, and well into summer, then next fall and winter, when the new flu season starts, we could have one heck of a virus on our hands if it continues to mutate.
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#134 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 12:02 AM
 
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I was wondering one thing, though. I had the Taiwan flu when I was younger (about 20 years ago), which was an influenza A H1N1. I don't know if that exposure would help or hinder me if I happened to catch this newer one, being that it does funky things with the immune system. Any thoughts? Thanks!
I think it has no bearing on your risk now. Your previous illness would not provide any long term immunity. People can get the flu over and over. Because Flu viruses are particularly prone to mutation, what you might have had once may be nothing like what is in circulation today. This is why people are so alarmed at this given that it's genetic material is from 4 different genetic elements.
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#135 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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I was wondering how flus pass from animals to humans? Does Monsanto genetically modify them or something?
people work with the pigs in those CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operation). the animals live in such filth and squalor that they are perpetually sick and doused with antibiotics.....it is not surprising that this outbreak occurred
I don't understand why the media doesn't even mention this!!
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#136 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 12:20 AM
 
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Dr. Mayer Eisenstein of HomeFirst is hosting a free webinar on Wednesday night to address the Swine Flu.

He's an MD who practices in the Chicago area who supports homebirth, no vaccines, etc.

http://www.homefirst.com/
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#137 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 12:43 AM
 
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I live in the Bay Area. I just read that a case has been confirmed in Sacramento. Bummer. So now it is in Northern California. I live in a 80% predominantly Mexican community. I emailed DH this morning and told him to just go home and not go anywhere in town. We work in a different town so I told him to shop there and and only go home to sleep. I am in Florida right now and am a bit freaked out about traveling home in a week as the plane goes through Texas.

I would say too, that DH and I likely had the flu this February. DD was sick but well within 3-4 days. We were really ill for a week. I was hit hard with chills, fever and aches. Makes me wonder... was it just regular flu or have there been cases around during flu season and it just was passed off as regular flu?
But if it seemed no different than a "regular flu", is there really any reason to panic? Does your February flu now seem somehow worse if you think it might have been swine flue?
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#138 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 03:05 AM
 
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thought this might add some insight to the discussion

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...ogy-primer.ars

I think I agree you don't need to freak out, but I also think that its always prudent to be aware of risks and know what you can/should do to keep your family as healthy and safe as possible.
best,
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#139 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 04:20 AM
 
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I really don't know if this thread has helped me to feel more comforted about this issue, or more freaked out.

Here I was loading up my family on more supps than usual, and now I'm off to read the links about why that's a bad idea...: We're in southern California, and our county was listed on the news tonight as the next place to get hit big, but I'm trying not to freak out about it too much. It's still a little scary, even if I do look at it as the media overreacting as usual.

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#140 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 09:02 AM
 
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I really don't know if this thread has helped me to feel more comforted about this issue, or more freaked out.

Here I was loading up my family on more supps than usual, and now I'm off to read the links about why that's a bad idea...: We're in southern California, and our county was listed on the news tonight as the next place to get hit big, but I'm trying not to freak out about it too much. It's still a little scary, even if I do look at it as the media overreacting as usual.
OMG stop watching the news.

I predict that people get all kinds of sick from worrying about it. There is a mind body connection that we dont acknowledge.
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#141 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 10:17 AM
 
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One of my good friend's husband has a best friend who is an MD with a PHD who specializes in infectious diseases. He's not worried and he doesn't think anyone else should be freaking out either. That dude knows more than me about this, and certainly more than the hysterical media.
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#142 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 11:20 AM
 
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hola mamas! i live in Mexico, yes MEXICO. not everyone is infected and we are not dying left and right. people that have died, entered the hospital with neumonia already. if you have symptoms, go to the hospital. period. that´s it.
would you take antibiotics for anything? NO. so don´t take tamiflu for a cold. go to the hospital first. you guys have a good health system, good hospitals...you go in, they take blood sample and you´ll get the results in a little while! dont take antivirals, just the same as you wouldn´t take antibiotics for a cough.
i´m not a doctor, i just live in mexico city...i think that´s enough right?!!!

wash and desinfect your hands, go outside, parks, just try playing in the trees and running, bikes, etc, not on the playground. desinfect baby´s hands, but tha´t it.

if any of you take homeopathic remedies, my kid´s ped and my homeopath sent us OSCILLOCOCCINUM, one tube every 8 days, half a tube for kids. and then INFLUENZINUM 2OO, 10drops, 3 times a day for 3 days. we are now taking it once a day and will keep taking it for a while! lots of vitamin C, natural juices.

have fun!
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#143 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 11:38 AM
 
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Hype, hype, hype. Apparently genocide in Darfur has lost its news-appeal. :

transformed, I agree with EVERYTHING you're saying. Wash your hands regularly, try to stop the nail-biting habit, and go on with life.

hapy2bamama - can your ped move to PA and be MY ped?? I think I'm a little in love with him.

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Ok, I just looked up when we were sick (I had posted about possible pneumonia in dh on a different board). It looks like dh first got sick on March 20th, got better over the weekend, and then was down and out starting again on Monday the 23rd. He thought he had pneumonia, had a fever, etc. I got sick the following weekend - started on Friday the 27th. Basically the same thing for me. Ds#1 and ds#3 both got sick about the same time I did - both with fever. So, a bit earlier than April, but with the same symptoms they are putting out with this one and the same knock-you-on-your-butt for a while. Hmm ... we typically never get sick, and definitely usually have nothing like this (dh ended up taking 4-5 days off over the stretch of 2 weeks between him and I both being sick).
DH and I both got the flu for the firs time in our LIVES this year - knocked us out for a week and we were weak/snotty/no voice for another 2 after we stopped shaking and fevering. I think it's just been a bad flu season. :

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Yes, and here is my REAL fear about all of this. People are going to start taking Tamiflu left and right. And what do viruses do when you attack them with anti-virals? The mutate and get STONGER. I understand people with flu wanting to take Tamiflu, especially in this case where there have been a number of deaths, but what on earth are we going to create? Not to fear monger, but I do fear that the worst is yet to come....
Now, that I can believe. People panic, do stupid things, and screw themselves over. We just need to stay sane, be smart about basic hygiene, and this too shall pass - hopefully uneventfully.

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#144 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 11:51 AM
 
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I was just going to mention homeopathic remedies, glad you did paakbaak. I had the flu while pregnant last year and didn't realize it until I took my daughter in the next week with the same symptoms as me and she tested positive. I cut my illness down to about 4 days by starting Aconitum Napellus 30c the day I got sick, then switching to Gelsemium Sempervirens 30c. I didn't start my daughter on those remedies right away because she got sick as I was still healing and I was out of it and she was sick for over a week, I managed to keep my other 2 children from getting it by using the remedies. I don't think we would have gotten sick, but we were immune compromised, we'd just moved into a 100 year old house that had a serious dust overgrowth and possibly mold and who knows what else. I use those 2 remedies for every viral infection and they have healed us over and over again. Great to add to your natural medicine cabinet!

And thank you for the WHO website and the actual numbers of confirmed cases. That was very enlightening. I'm a member of the media so I can tell you, it's not about news, it's just about web hits.

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#145 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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#146 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 03:32 PM
 
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You what's scaring me about this? Not this particular hog.bird.people flu, but how little control we would have if this was actually something horrific. Like Ebola, or something more deadly.

With air travel and people's refusal to sit still we'd be doomed.

That's what scares me. This isn't scaring me so much, and I'm surprised with the OCD and all that I'm not sealed up in my panic room. (I don't really have one.)
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#147 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 03:40 PM
 
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The irresponsible and bad reporting in this country is : me.
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#148 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 03:45 PM
 
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The irresponsible and bad reporting in this country is : me.
yep!!!

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#149 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 03:52 PM
 
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Having just come back from a week in mexico (puerto vallarta), I guess I should be more worried than I am, but really, I'm more worried about all the panic this is causing people. this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I guess working as a nurse, I see all the nasty bacteria out there and that truly is more frightening to me. it used to be that bugs like C.Diff, MSRA and VRE were only in the old with immune-compromised systems, but now I see it in the postpartum unit. Or in people with simple infections that are strong, otherwise healthy young people.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain. Yes, we should prepare. But it is not causing a high death rate in the US, and the normal, yearly flu kills more than 36K each year! And how many children have died from just getting their vaccines and the complications that follow?

I am pretty certain we had the flu this year and last, in fact, we seem to get it every year and we have been very, very sick. I don't want to get the flu again, but I know it's a certainty that I will, either now or in the future. But I don't panic about it day and night. That wouldn't make sense.

I hope people take a step back, turn off the tv and computer for a day or two, and get a little reality. Go out, enjoy the day, live normally, and don't worry about something you can't control anyway.

I see people buying masks left and right, but they are being misused anyway. If you have a mask on to protect you, then use your hands to put it on and off, adjust it, etc. and better yet, take if off and leave it to wear the next day, it's totally useless!!! You are going to get whatever you touched on there anyway!

Just my opinion, I realize everyone has an opinion on this. but the truth is, no one knows much about this virus, and the public can't do much anyway!

Thank You!!! You covered my thoughts exactly!


Even the common flu mutates yearly, that's why flu shots are such a shot in the dark (no pun inteded). So yea, the swine flu is going to mutate, the avian flu is going to mutate. I feel horrible about those who have lost their lives, but I'm not going to get excited and quarentiene myself and my kids, change our daily habits.
I will be more diligent about stocking up on nessesities to make sure I have stuff on hand to servive the world shutting down, just like it was supposed to happen on 1-1-00, not to would be irresponsible, but no panic, no worry. Just going on with life as normal.

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#150 of 481 Old 04-28-2009, 04:02 PM
 
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Though I can respect the idea of staying clear of large crowds and making sure to stay home if one is sick, I find this article on MSNBC about "social distancing" a bit alarming.
Quote:
Slowing the spread of a swine flu epidemic in the United States could well depend on how quickly communities can empty schools, close day care centers and shut down public gathering spots — and on whether ordinary people are willing to stay away from their neighbors.
This part, though, really seemed to make a point of all this media attention in the first place:

Quote:
Longini's models figured a compliance rate of about 60 percent, which allows some latitude for human nature. "It depends on how afraid they are,” Currie noted.
Basically, they want to instill deep fear within us, hoping then we'd voluntarily quanrantee ourselves for what seems to be an unspecified amount of time.

Quote:
The measures are intended to slow spread of disease during the several months it could take to manufacture and distribute a vaccine effective against the new strain of the H1N1 swine flu — or any other new virus.

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