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#121 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:34 PM
 
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Hmmm...so is soaking it the best way to reduce the arsenic content?

I've been toasting my nori/kelp and sprinkling it on my rice. I've also been eating more than a tblsp a day some days (some days none at all) So maybe I should back?
Interesting theoretically question. I believe that the arsenic content could decrease in a liquid solution per osmosis. That sounds logical in theory. However, how would you consume the kelp without the liquid, though?

I'm really not concerned about arsenic from certified organic sources which test for heavy metals. AND I get the benefit of it absorbing heavy metals from my gut, it seems. (although, apparently, it could theoretically absorb minerals from foods/supplements also.)

There are so many nutritive benefits of the kelp. It is a whole food and I believe we evolved from the sea. So, I'm going with Mother Nature's system of nutrition.

The quantities of iodine suggested recently are much higher than the RDA. The RDA is suspect. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for Iodine for Adults 19 years and older 150 mcg per day.

But, my disclaimer, and based upon having (bromide) "reactions" with the 1/2 tsp and working up, I'm sticking with the max of 1 Tbls a day, plus our other food sources of iodine: sea salt, shrimp, scallops, oysters, salmon, yogurt, eggs, strawberries, cheddar cheese, CLO, beans, potatoes, turkey, etc. http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/ We've been including more seafood than meat recently. So, moderation from whole foods is my mantra.

The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Iodine for Adults 19 years and older is 1,100 mcg/day (1.1 mg/day).

Halides 101: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...%3Bread=146203

I'm considering including KCl as a salt flush substitute also. But, not sure about that. Must research more first.


Additionally, "even alternative nutritional doctor Stephen Langer, MD, author of Solved: The Riddle of Illness, the follow-up book to Broda Barnes' Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness, advises against taking iodine or kelp supplements for people with autoimmune thyroid disease.

Hormone expert David Brownstein, MD, also offers caution regarding iodine.
Iodine supplementation in those that have an autoimmune thyroid problem can be akin to pouring gas over a fire. However, with hypothyroid conditions that are not autoimmune in nature, iodine-containing foods can actually help the thyroid function better."
http://thyroid.about.com/od/isthatso/f/iodine.htm


But, maybe it all comes back to eliminating gluten...




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#122 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:36 PM
 
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I'm sure my ND believes in iodine as an essential nutrient but doesn't believe I'm deficient in it.
The ND might be interested to read Dr. Brownstein's Iodine book as it clearly explains that we are ALL deficient because of diet *and* toxins and why.
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#123 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for Iodine for Adults 19 years and older is 1,100 mcg/day (1.1 mg/day).
Iodine researchers Brownstein, Abraham and Flechas blow this out of the water.

http://www.healthtruthrevealed.com/a...912805/article
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml
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#124 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:49 PM
 
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The ND might be interested to read Dr. Brownstein's Iodine book as it clearly explains that we are ALL deficient because of diet *and* toxins and why.
This one? http://www.amazon.com/Iodine-Without.../dp/B000I2MMSI


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#125 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:51 PM
 
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Iodine researchers Brownstein, Abraham and Flechas blow this out of the water.

http://www.healthtruthrevealed.com/a...912805/article
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml
I have run out of space to open more windows to read all of your informative links.


Pat, brain on overload here.

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#126 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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So if I have Hashi's, is iodine supplementation good or bad? I did have an iodine test done but the results aren't back yet. I do not convert T4 to T3 very well (optimal T4 but low in range T3) so my doctor told me to add kelp to my diet to improve the this.
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#127 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 02:55 PM
 
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I have run out of space to open more windows to read all of your informative links.


Pat, brain on overload here.

Welcome to the world the rest of us often live in when you post.

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#128 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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This may seem like "duh" to some of you, but I mentioned taking Iodine supplements to a friend and she said that we get enough iodine from food because of iodized salt. I know that I don't want that much salt in my diet, though. Any thoughts?

Wife to Bri, mom to G (8), R (6), I (5). Expecting #4 - 8.16.11
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#129 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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This may seem like "duh" to some of you, but I mentioned taking Iodine supplements to a friend and she said that we get enough iodine from food because of iodized salt. I know that I don't want that much salt in my diet, though. Any thoughts?
Per the recent discussion, we don't actually get enough iodine in our diet from salt.... According to Morton's, 1/4 tsp is 45% of the RDA (so approximately 67.5 mcg). In order to consume the amounts which are recommended by people who've researched it (as Jane said, 13.5 milligrams), you would need to consume 50 teaspoons of salt per day in order to get to a *maintenance* dose of iodine.

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#130 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 04:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lablover View Post
So if I have Hashi's, is iodine supplementation good or bad? I did have an iodine test done but the results aren't back yet. I do not convert T4 to T3 very well (optimal T4 but low in range T3) so my doctor told me to add kelp to my diet to improve the this.
This is my Cliff's Notes to thyroid stuff:

This post has more info about T3 and T4 testing and meds. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=94

Here is "Recommended Labwork": http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/

Mistakes Patients Make: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...patients-make/

This post is about the nutritional issues and thyroid function.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=68
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=285
This is a list of supplements and how they function in the body. http://ithyroid.com/supplement_list.htm

I always recommend whole foods for nutritional support. Check the site "World's Healthiest Foods". It lists each of those nutrients and the foods most dense with that nutrient. http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php Also, elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, radishes, soy, peanuts, spinach and rutabagas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production.

Most of our diets are depleted in magnesium. We use Natural Calm. It is most bio-available. You want magnesium citrate. We also supplement with CLO for Vit A and Omega 3, zinc, selenium and iodine and B-vitamins, vit C, iron. I eat my two Brazil nuts (maximum, cause more can be too much selenium). And other food sources for the nutrients. Here is a list of nutrients to be sure are adequate in your diet: http://webhome.idirect.com/~wolfnowl/thyroid13.htm Hormones are also influenced greatly by the types of fats you eat. You need healthy saturated fats (avocado and coconut), and essential fatty acids: cod liver oil.

Iodine supplementation is another avenue to research: http://www.iodine4health.com/disease/disease.htm Here is more info about this important nutrient: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=272 Kelp is the seaweed highest in iodine and for example, you would need approx. 1 teaspoon a day of www.seaveg.com kelp to get 12.5 mg. Iodized salt is not a good source. Real sea salt is good but not sufficient. Selenium in conjunction is important.


Adrenal fatigue is also interconnected with stress, cortisol exhaustion, and thyroid levels.

I'd also strongly recommend seeing a classical homeopath. Homeopathy can help to address hormonal balance.

My (limited) understanding is that the blood test for thyroid function is not as accurate for *bio-available* levels of thyroid function. See this old post of mine with more info: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=984

The recommendation is to have *saliva* testing done for progesterone estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, AND thyroid.

The hormones are interconnected. Basically, the thyroid, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone and cortisol levels all need to be evaluated, as they change over the course of day.

Also, evening primrose and magnesium help with hormonal balance. Gut health is important to nutrient absorption which impacts hormone production and weight gain, new studies show.

So, I'd start with the "Healing The Gut-cheat sheet" at the top of the forum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071



HTH, Pat

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#131 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 05:04 PM
 
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Have you read this article by Dr. Abrahams explaining research on why he thinks it isn't?

The bioavailability of iodine applied to the skin

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/u...2/UNIOD_02.htm
I hadn't read that before. It's interesting though....clinically it seems to match up pretty well. I wouldn't ever rely on it, but how fast it disappears has correlated to levels of deficiency I've seen. Interesting. Why can't real life match up with data?
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#132 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 05:09 PM
 
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I see. I actually think that the skin test is a pretty good indicator. Now when you say it didn't absorb...over how long a period of time? 2 hours? 24? That makes a difference.

IF you had been getting iodine all along all the halides wouldn't have bothered you as much so it's still *possible* that you didn't need it. But I would be suprised!

Flouride doesnt' necessarily displace iodine. IT kinda has "first dibs" so to speak. Most studies I'm aware of show that the halides take up residence and bind to the receptor sites in the absence of iodine. The reason supplementation works is that it readily ousts the halides. However given your symptoms I'd be shocked if you had sufficient stores.
She said If I needed the iodine it would soak in immediately. I did it again today and it soaked in within a minute.
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#133 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 05:17 PM
 
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The ND might be interested to read Dr. Brownstein's Iodine book as it clearly explains that we are ALL deficient because of diet *and* toxins and why.
Hi JaneS

Yes I agree! I'm going to change my ND. She to has a thyroid problem and looks very unhealthy so I'm not sure she knows what shes doing exactly. Not to judge her but In that line of work you have to know what you're doing and I feel she doesn't :
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#134 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 05:23 PM
 
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Ah, see I don't think that way. For me I have people watch it over a 24 hour period. How fast it disappears really seems to correlate with the urine tests-at least IME.
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#135 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 09:01 PM
 
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The ND might be interested to read Dr. Brownstein's Iodine book as it clearly explains that we are ALL deficient because of diet *and* toxins and why.
What is their position on the current thinking that most Americans actually get several TIMES more iodine than the current USRDA for that mineral? Or that in peoples with iodine deficiency, you see goiters very commonly in the population, and this is almost unheard of in most Americans today?

I would be shocked to learn I don't get enough iodine. It's in the natural salt I eat a lot of and I eat a lot of fish too. I wonder if supplementing with extra iodine wouldn't be a really REALLY bad idea for me?
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#136 of 236 Old 05-21-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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Not everyone is at risk, that is absolutely true. I have seen people tested who had no risk factors (in terms of no symptoms) and their urine tests came back fine. Its possible to NOT be iodine deficient.

However this is where it's important to understand the difference between pathological deficiency and subclinical deficiency. There is a spectrum. I for one would not want to wait until I had a goiter to address the problem if I had warning signs.
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#137 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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So if you have used sea salt exclusively for 10 years, don't eat sea vegetables to speak of, eat a very small amount of seafood, and make all food from scratch (thus no iodized salt at all), chances would be good that you need iodine? And an underactive thyroid without clinical hypothyroidism could correlate to iodine deficiency, with the patch test taking 1.5-2 hours to fully disappear?

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#138 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 12:54 PM
 
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I would say there's a very good chance, yes.
I'm still considering fish head and wild rice soup for iodine...

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#139 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 05:23 PM
 
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I would say the same.
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#140 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 06:07 PM
 
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I would say there's a very good chance, yes.
I'm still considering fish head and wild rice soup for iodine...
Chicken head broth is supposed to be magical for iodine also.


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#141 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 09:43 PM
 
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Chicken head broth is supposed to be magical for iodine also.


Pat
I'm sure, but having grown up with fish head soup, it seems less disgusting somehow.

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#142 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 10:20 PM
 
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Chicken head broth is supposed to be magical for iodine also.


Pat
Do chicken necks count? I can buy a big bag of necks at my Farmers' market.
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#143 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 10:39 PM
 
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So if you have used sea salt exclusively for 10 years, don't eat sea vegetables to speak of, eat a very small amount of seafood, and make all food from scratch (thus no iodized salt at all), chances would be good that you need iodine? And an underactive thyroid without clinical hypothyroidism could correlate to iodine deficiency, with the patch test taking 1.5-2 hours to fully disappear?
My 2 cents...

Yes most sea salt contains very little, less than iodized salt.

Yes absolutely, it appears that ANY thyroid condition one should first suspect iodine deficiency including subclinical, Wilson's Syndrome/low body temp, etc.

I don't believe in patch test since reading Abraham's information as noted above.
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#144 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 10:41 PM
 
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Do chicken necks count? I can buy a big bag of necks at my Farmers' market.
You need the thyroid. Not sure it is in the neck parts, may be closer to the "chin"?

I've not studied Chicken A&P.


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#145 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 11:01 PM
 
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What is their position on the current thinking that most Americans actually get several TIMES more iodine than the current USRDA for that mineral? Or that in peoples with iodine deficiency, you see goiters very commonly in the population, and this is almost unheard of in most Americans today?

I would be shocked to learn I don't get enough iodine. It's in the natural salt I eat a lot of and I eat a lot of fish too. I wonder if supplementing with extra iodine wouldn't be a really REALLY bad idea for me?
The orthoiodosupplementation researchers (http://www.iodine4health.com/ortho/ortho.htm) with both clinicial and research experience have shown that the RDA is not sufficient to confer FULL BODY sufficiency of iodine. We have iodine receptors all over our body, not just the thyroid as mainstream medicine focuses upon with their typical blinders.

Low iodine leads to cysts on breasts, ovaries, uterine fibroids and prostate... cysts which can be precursors to cancer. We've certainly not heard of goiter but these other issues are endemic. Just in my own circle, my father and my best friend have thyroid nodules (low iodine as well). Another best friend, fibrocystic breasts. My cousin breast cancer. Myself and my son had low body temps (subclinical hypothyroidism.)

PCOS is so common most women have heard of it, I think like maybe 10% have it? I have 2 friends with PCOS as well. I had ovarian cysts at one point (long time ago) and then they went away when examined a couple years later. I think back with hindsight and what changed is that I became a sushi roll freak, that makes me think.

Goiter is not the only problem iodine deficiency causes. Personally I think they are absolutely right low iodine is the reason for these increased hormonal cancers. Brownstein's book ...

(yes Pat that is the book you linked above)

...is absolutely amazing on how he explains the connection between breast cancer and iodine. It was chilling to read.

Mainland Japanese get avg. 13.8 milligrams per day of iodine with much less breast cancer and thyroid problems from a diet high in seaweed and fish, and that is estimated to be around the proper psysiological daily dose (approx. 2 drops Lugol's 12.5 mg).

The body will just excrete what is not needed if you are sufficient and you can always do the iodine loading test to determine if you need it.
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#146 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 11:18 PM
 
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I will be back to talk more about goitrogens and how they influence how much iodine you need.

Such as this study in *children* showing intake of 10 mg of iodine (the RDA is .15 mg, iodine researchers say 12.5 - 50 mg. per day for adults) goiters still do not go away.

Quote:
"After a preliminary survey in 1949, tablets containing 10 mg potassium iodide had been made available to infants, preschool children, and schoolchildren through schools and child-health centres for weekly consumption for approximately sixteen years. State-wide surveys at five-year intervals showed a slow steady reduction in the prevalence of goiter, but in some regions the rates remained high."13

http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct200...buttal1005.htm
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#147 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 11:30 PM
 
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Seaweed also can contain goitrogens (such as the halide bromine) which negate the benefits.... and can cause bromism (headaches, fatigue, mental fogginess) in and of iself. Bromism can be caused by high iodine if one has large body stores of bromide.

Guess I'm not in bed by 10 Pat! I knew this thread would do me in...
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#148 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 11:36 PM
 
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only 10% of sodium iodide present in table salt is bioavailable, due to competition with chloride for intestinal absorption.8
http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct200...buttal1005.htm
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#149 of 236 Old 05-22-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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Also wanted to point out b/f I forget is that Abraham and Brownstein say that "magnesium and iodine deficiencies are the causes of autoimmune thyroiditis (Hashimoto's)" with additional reference to intake of high goitrogens and exposure to halides (fluoride, chlorine, bromine) exacerbating iodine deficiency.
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#150 of 236 Old 05-23-2009, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Also wanted to point out b/f I forget is that Abraham and Brownstein say that "magnesium and iodine deficiencies are the causes of autoimmune thyroiditis (Hashimoto's)" with additional reference to intake of high goitrogens and exposure to halides (fluoride, chlorine, bromine) exacerbating iodine deficiency.
I've been sooo busy and havent been able to post on the thread but I'm so glad Jane has researched the same things I have...

Thanks for the wonderful info Jane!

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