I'm so scared for my baby. Need help asap! - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-15-2009, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DD 7 months was diagnosed with ear infections last night with 104.5. Doc wanted to give her amoxicillin (anti-biotic). She gave her Motrin which brought fever down and she seemed much better. I chose to hold off on anti-biiotic. I'm treating her with garlic/mullein oil.

This morning, she was great. Then this afternoon she got bad again. If I give her a bath or Motrin, temp goes down a little, then goes back up. I am so scared. She's at 103.5 right now. Called doc again. Told me to give her anti-biotic. I'm not sure what to do. And I'm scared of meningitis. I hope someone has some suggestions.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:27 PM
 
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Hugs mama! I know how worrisome fevers are. I find this article very helpful:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...ng_crisis.html

DH 06/98, DS 05/05, DD VBAC 04/08
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:30 PM
 
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This may be helpful too:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...-remedies.html

DH 06/98, DS 05/05, DD VBAC 04/08
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:38 PM
 
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My DD always ran high fevers as a baby (Like 105-106). It is fairly common and normal. By giving her Motrin you are interrupting the fever doing its job in killing off the infection. I have treated my babes with Tylenol in the past, but only is they were MISERABLE and unable to sleep, not simply for a fever.

Signs of Meningitis: Stiff neck, lethargic (floppy), and sensitivity to light (bring her near a lamp and see if the light bothers her more than usual).

She will be just fine!!!!

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Old 05-16-2009, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the articles. I appreciate the insight and perspective.

Normally I wouldn't worry too much. But with the fever trying to go up to 105, I get nervous. Also, she is very stiff. I can't tell if she is trying to hold her neck straight because of pain in that area or just because she is achey all over. A midwife mentioned testing her out by holding her head straight and then bending her chin to her chest. Meningitis will cause excruciating pain. I tried this and she definitely doesn't like it and cried, but she was crying anyway. A couple of times she did look down when I placed a blinking light down by her stomach. She didn't look for long though.

I know I'm probably just being overly worried. This is the first time I have dealt with such a high fever. We have been bringing it down when it hits over 104 degrees. But I wonder if I should just let her go and burn out whatever she is fighting.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:34 AM
 
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We have fevers for a reason- to kill off any invading bacteria/virus. If E. has a low grade fever I give hime a nice warm bath. Just enough to soothe but just enough to keep him nice and warm to kill off some of the bacteria/virus(You don't really know what it is at the time)

I'd error on the cautious side. Did you continue with the mullien/garlic? I'd add a few drops of BM in the actual ear too. The best of luck to you!!

From my friend Lemon Juice- From Dr. Kupperberg

ACONITE- High fever, sudden onset, dry fever, restless croup

ANTIMONIUM TARTARICUM- loose, rattly cough

ARNICA- bruises,contusion,sprain-first thing to do in head trauma

BELLADONNA-high fever,sudden onset,more delirious,hallucinations

CHAMOMILLA-high fever,irritable,inconsolabl; ie:teething,earache

CHINA-flu with fatigue,relapsing fever,aches,chills,malodorous diarrhea

EUPATORIUM-flu with bone pain restlessness,severe headache,thirsty

FERRUM PHOS-early stages of cold,pale with flush on top, sensitive/irritable

GELSEMIUM- flu with fatigue,lethargy,apathy,dullness,not thirsty

HEPAR SULPHURICUM-colored discharge,yellow or green,irritable,fussy

HYPERICUM-nerve pain: toothache or tooth injury,also fingers in the car door, etc

MERCURIOUS VIVUS-sore throat,tonsillitis,with bad breath,coated,rufled tongue

OSCILLOCOCCINUM-generic flu prevention, before the flu

PULSATILLA-fevers,colds,earache,when acting unusually mild,gentle,weepy

RUTA-sprains

SPONGIA-wheezing asthma

All remedies can be used in the 12c or 30c potency. Dosing is 3-4 pellets, frequency depends on severity and acuteness of symptoms. **Oscillococcinum dose is 10-15 of the small pellets-not the whole vial.

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Old 05-16-2009, 12:21 PM
 
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When my baby had bacterial meningitis she was too sick to cry and had a fever of 107.

You are talking about a 7 MONTH old baby with a high fever and a diagnosed ear infection. Give her the antibiotics!
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ackray View Post
You are talking about a 7 MONTH old baby with a high fever and a diagnosed ear infection. Give her the antibiotics!
I agree.

I'm also not sure what the point is of calling or seeing a doctor if you're not willing to use the prescribed treatment.
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Old 05-16-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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According to Mendelsohn in How to Raise a Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor: "the symptoms of meningitis may includea stiff neck (but not necessarily), a persistent headache, vomiting, fever, and convulsions in infants...If your child has an unexplained fever for three or four days, accompanied by drowsiness, vomitting, a shrill cry, and possibly a stiff neck, it is time to suspect meningitis. Some of these symptoms are also present with influenza. You can distinguish meningitis by the last two, particularly the shrill cry. If your child has this, insist that your doctor perform the appropriate tests, which may include a spinal tap. In that event, if he doesn't find the spinal canal on the first or second attempt, tell him to stop trying and call another doctor.

Antibiotics have reduced mortality from this dread disease from 95 percent to 5 percent. That's why correct, early diagnosis of the disease is a matter of life or death."

I'd make sure you have a correct diagnosis before giving the antibiotics because if its just a regular ear infection, antibiotics are ineffective, since antibiotics are for bacteria. Also, ear infections don't appear to be a symtom of meningitis. Mendelsohn says he'd only give antibiotics for an ear infection if pus were coming out of the ear, otherwise he never prescribes antibiotics for ear infections.

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Old 05-16-2009, 02:29 PM
 
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There must be a reason why your baby had an ear infection. Find the cause and the cure will follow. But giving fever-reducing drugs and empiric antibiotics is a shot in the dark and will only result to recurring fevers and ear infections subsequently.
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:38 PM
 
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Personally, I'd give her the antibiotics at this point. I fought ear infections naturally when my third was a baby with no luck until the gunk in his ear finally turned to glue and hindered his hearing. After that I've used antibiotics. I guess there's a time and a place.

Laura
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ackray View Post
You are talking about a 7 MONTH old baby with a high fever and a diagnosed ear infection. Give her the antibiotics!
Seriously. Why are you allowing her to remain in pain?

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

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Old 05-16-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by D_McG View Post
Seriously. Why are you allowing her to remain in pain?
:

Give her the antibiotics.
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Old 05-16-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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I agree with the PPs who say to go ahead and treat with the antibiotics. My DD2 had persistent, recurrent ear infections. She was miserable and her hearing became impaired. As for the mullin and garlic, if the ear drum ruptures you don't want to be putting any drops in her ears. I tried the mullin and garlic to no avail. I needlessly kept my baby in pain for too long.

I'm all for "wait and see," and so was our doctor. But, there comes a time when the infection has gone on long enough, and the baby is in so much pain that the antibiotics are a good thing.

Ear pain is horrible.
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Old 05-16-2009, 04:10 PM
 
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I was thinking- give her the antibiotics as well, but I totally respect if you are trying to avoid.

With ds1, he started getting ear infections around 18 mths. Some I treated with the antiobiotics, some without. I always always always treated everything else naturally and then added other supplements to help while he was on a round of antibiotics. If he was in pain, really fussy or high fevers (103-104) we would do antiobiotics, garlic mullen oil, tylenol as needed, probitoics, garlic internally, and vit c. If it was a mild infections I would do all above without the antiobiotics.

Doing that for me helped me feel better about an infection becoming worse...just my 2 cents....

Busy wife to dh for 5 years and mama to ds1 (11.09.04), ds2 (7.17.06) and ds3 coming Aug 09. :::
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skai View Post
:

Give her the antibiotics.
I agree.

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Old 05-16-2009, 07:54 PM
 
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I guess I am not understanding why you do not want to give her the antibiotics to get rid of the infection?
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:57 PM
 
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But most ear infections are caused by viruses. And of course she can seek advice of a medical professional without following it. How many of us have refused induction, c-section or antibiotics ourselves?

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Old 05-16-2009, 07:58 PM
 
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Giving the tylenol is going to help relieve the pain she is in. If you have ever had a ear infection you know exactly how badly that hurts

I agree with abx when ds got a double ear infection on his first bday and we ended up in the ER because he was HURTING so badly I gave the abx without a second thought and within 12 hours he wasnt in pain any more.

 
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:14 PM
 
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I'd give her the abx as well. DD1 has had two ear infections in the past that we have treated with garlic and olive oil like normal. The second time, it cleared up for about a week and then suddenly she was very lethargic and running a 103 fever. She was miserable and limp so I took her to urgent care. Her fever was 104.9 and I took the abx. This was her first time ever on abx and her infection wasn't responding to our home remedies. Sometimes it's just necessary, IMO.

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Old 05-16-2009, 08:24 PM
 
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If you are scared of giving her the abx, then you should at least help her soothe her pain. I have heard that putting BM in their ear can help, or try using homeopathic remedies.

I personally wouldn't want to be in that much pain, and i would give her Tylenol if she was showing signs of being in pain and not being able to sleep.

Just remember that you have to balance it all out, is the risk of giving your LO abx worse than the risk of not. And only you can answer that, but if there is a sure risk of meningitis, then i would think the risk of not giving abx would be higher in this circumstance.

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Old 05-16-2009, 08:46 PM
 
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This is a copy of a recent post of mine regarding ear infections and immune system. I would not give an antibiotic for a simple "ear infection". How is baby doing now?

Pat

Quote:
Diary intolerance is the number one cause of fluid build up in ears.

"In one study an astonishing 86% of the children tested became free of ear problems once they came off dairy food."
http://www.safekids.co.uk/EarProblemsAndAllergies.html
http://www.healthychild.com/ear-infe...ternatives.htm
http://www.vitacost.com/science/conc...infection.html
http://www.femail.com.au/ear-infections-truestar.htm

Additionally, I was just reading that chiropractic adjustments could help with ear infections. I didn't know.

Breast milk in the ear or garlic oil is supposed to help too.

Also, add vitamin C and whole food probiotics, such as yogurt for the immune system.

"In an October study in the medical journal The Lancet, researchers found that antibiotics for ear infections are only beneficial to children under the age of 2 with both ears infected. Study leader Dr. Maroeska Rovers, of the University Medical Center Utrecht in the Netherlands, said that researchers found that in most other cases, watchful waiting is OK."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16140545/#storyContinued
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ear-infections/EI99999

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/...ics-vs-waiting

"Evidence has been building over the years showing most ear infections resolve on their own and antibiotics do little or nothing to speed the process. And, overuse of antibiotics leads to antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. The most important factor in treatment for ear infections is pain relief."


A landmark study published in Pediatrics has shown that treating ear infections with antibiotics has no benefit when compared to doing nothing. (McCormick 2005).
http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...-Not-Necessary

My recommendation is classical homeopathy.
A friend's daughter had six rounds of antibiotics for ear infections and was scheduled for tube insertion. She saw the homeopath and gave her daughter the proscribed remedy. On return to the physician prior to the surgery, her ears were no longer infected. And she has had no ear infections since.

Our classical homeopathist first learned about homeopathy for her son with ear infections. Then she became schooled about homeopathy. I am a complete believer. Although, I still do not understand how it works. We are all on constitutional remedies and are rarely ever sick.

Another suggestion is Grapefruit Seed Extract. (Not grape seed.) GSE is also a natural anti-inflammatory. It is give orally, diluted in water. It tastes horrible though.

Here are some more ideas:
Garlic is a natural antibiotic.
Collodial silver is a natural antibiotic.
Vit C-large doses (natural fever reducer, iirc)
Cod liver oil- essential fatty acids help the immune system (We use Nordic Naturals -strawberry and our son loves it!)
Chamommilla is good for restlessness, discomfort, insomnia, unbearable pain; fever; child is impatient and angry.
Zinc lozenges help the immune system
Echinecea- We use Sambucol for Kids
Probiotics- for immune support, digestive system is 70% of immune system. Many of the serious side effects of cp are associated with a damaged gut, secondary to antibiotic use. Avoid antibiotics with cp and other viral illnesses.


And Dairy is the #1 culprit of fluid and mucus production leading to an environment conducive to ear infections.


Here is some info about homeopathic remedies (and treating ear infections).

* Aconite: Pain that comes on suddenly after a shock or chill.

* Belladonna: Severe throbbing pain; child is oversensitive and cranky.

* Chamomilla: Unbearable pain; fever; child is impatient and angry.

* Lycopodium: Pain on right side only; stopped-up nose; cold extremities.

* Magnesia phosphorica (or "homeopathic aspirin"): Pain reduced by the application of heat or pressure.

* Mercurius solubilis: Pain accompanied by swollen glands and sweating.
I would do whole food probiotics, cod liver oil, magnesium, vit. C, zinc, coconut oil, bone broths, green juices. Support the immune system. The gut is 70% of our immune system. Antibiotics damage the microbial balance in the gut.

Basically, you have to heal the gut to strengthen the immune system. Check out the "Healing the Gut-cheat sheet" at the top of the forum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071


Antibiotics rarely address ear infections, which are generally viral in origin. Nor are they more effective than watchful waiting, unless it is a double ear infection in a child younger than age 2.

Here is more information regarding avoiding drug-resistant bacteria: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5&postcount=12 Basically, UNNECESSARY antibiotics are the cause, not avoiding antibiotics when NOT needed.


HTH,


Pat

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Old 05-16-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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Here are some homeopathic options for fever, if it gest very high (104 F.), I'd use the Belladonna and other homeopathics antipyretics for fevers.

http://www.articlesbase.com/alternat...hy-537017.html
http://www.1-800homeopathy.com/topic...u&sub=flufever
http://www.holisticonline.com/remedi...s-for-cold.htm
http://www.locateadoc.com/articles/5...nd-flu-93.html
http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/letzel-fever.asp

Here is an article called "Fevers In Children, A Blessing in Disguise". It was first printed in Mothering Magazine. It discusses the dangers of fever reducers.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...lth/fever.html

Generally, I am much more comfortable with Motrin than Tylenol safety wise. But, do NOT give any NSAIDs with chicken pox or any virus. Generally, Motrin's issues revolve around the GI disturbance, which can be addressed with normal dosing and food on the stomach. Motrin can be given in huge doses and this is where the GI issues can become significant. But the real issue with NSAIDs is the unknown affect that they have if one has a virus. The interaction isn't well understood and there is an aspect of impeding the immune system. The whole Reye's syndrome is related to NSAID and viral infections.


Another issue is that Tylenol wears off abruptly and Motrin wears off more slowly. Fever spikes are more common when Tylenol wears off abruptly. Febrile seizures are more common with fever spikes. We never use Tylenol. There are potential issues with liver toxicity too. (And masking illness is a whole 'nuther issue.)


Probiotics- for immune support, digestive system is 70% of immune system. Many of the serious side effects of cp are associated with a damaged gut, secondary to antibiotic use. Avoid antibiotics with cp and other viral illnesses.


Here's info about vitamins and fever reduction, and fever and chicken pox, (applies to other viral illness):

http://www.alive.com/2684a9a2.php?su...read_cramb=153

http://www.moondragon.org/obgyn/pedi...hickenpox.html


Definitely homeopathic alternatives could help. Match the symptoms.
Here is a list of possibilities.
http://www.vitaminevi.com/Homeo/Chicken_Pox_hm.htm
http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/2210004.html
http://www.herbs2000.com/disorders/chickenpox.htm
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/v...ter-000080.htm
http://renuscorner.wordpress.com/200...r-chicken-pox/


Pat

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Old 05-16-2009, 08:56 PM
 
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My biggest concern for an infant with a fever is related to the potential for dehydration. Is she nursing effectively and frequently? Is she listless or lethargic? If she is not nursing effectively and frequently, has few wet dipes, or is lethargic, I'd have her evaluated for dehydration.


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Old 05-16-2009, 09:39 PM
 
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um, not ALL ear infections are caused by viruses. i think that's why antibiotics are effective some times.

also, the fever does not reach a high enough temperature to kill any bacteria. the fever signals your body is having an immune response but it doesn't actually kill the bacteria.

i'm also fairly certain that the immune response continues in absence of the fever (i seem to remember this from the vax forum).

all that being said, i don't dose with pain reliever until the kiddo is obviously uncomfortable, i remember being sick with a fever and it sucks. i do give anti-biotics on occasion and they seemto do a pretty good job of what they are supposed to do.

just my two cents.

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Old 05-16-2009, 09:45 PM
 
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Who said ALL were caused by viruses?

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Old 05-16-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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DS had an ear infection and I gave him the round of abx (for the first and only time) and they did diddly squat. Even after the rx was finished, he still showed signs of discomfort. I went to the health food store and got some ear oil with garlic and mullein oil. Cleared things up in a day or two, though I continued with it for nearly a week just to be sure.

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Old 05-16-2009, 10:07 PM
 
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Don't you think that when she took the kiddo to the doc, the doc looked in the ears and noted purulent drainage which is why the doc ordered antibiotics. That is the difference between bacterial and viral. Give her the antibiotics.

Momma to DS 1, age 8 and rainbow baby DS2 4-21-11.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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a few drops of lemon juice in the ear really helps to relieve pain - I use it myself and with my kids. I hope she's feeling better soon!

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Old 05-16-2009, 11:10 PM
 
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Looks like a couple pps gave you all the natural remedies you'll need.. so I just wanted to add one to help get the fever down naturally when it spikes too high.

Raw egg whites on the bottom of the feet, not sure how well this will work on such a little one, but if they are that hot I don't suspect they'll be kicking much.. anyways, you get a couple egg whites for each foot and place them in baggies and then tape or tie around ankle with hair band (careful it's not too tight) and this will help bring it down within a half hour in most cases, sometimes an hour in rare cases.
http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/fever.html

I also wanted to say that I understand not wanting to use ABX, I'm strongly against it as well and use manuka honey instead, though you can't use it with an infant you can get manuka oil and use that and it's just as good.

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