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#1 of 21 Old 05-21-2009, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am hav to keep this short bc DS is losing it. Long story short DS has had a temp for 3 days and diarrhea for 4 days every 10min (seriosuly!!) we have gone to the ped and we are going again today but his little bottom is so red and raw that he won't let em wipe him good or use rash cream. I need somethign I can spray but I am clueless as to what to use or where to get it.

PLEASE HELP!!
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#2 of 21 Old 05-21-2009, 11:57 AM
 
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I don't know what to get for spray, but can you soak his bottom in a sink of plain water to rinse, and then let him air dry? That might help, and if you can get a layer of something as a barrier on there (maybe olive oil or something?) that would help too.

I hope he feels better soon.

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#3 of 21 Old 05-21-2009, 02:47 PM
 
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I've had the best luck with clay based baby powder as opposed to barrier creams. We've had some really bad diaper rashes. Also, California Baby makes a really good cleaning spray that helps heal and sooth rashes.
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#4 of 21 Old 05-21-2009, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well we are back from the ped and according to her his rash is like a burn and she prescribed lidocaine gel and a Rx diaper ointment antifungul. The naturopath was out today so we are waiting for her reply as well as a culture to come back.
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#5 of 21 Old 05-21-2009, 11:30 PM
 
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What's the name of the ointment? Has he been on any antibiotics...wondering why she thought anti-fungal especially if she cultured (which is more common if something bacterial is suspected).

Poor kiddo. And mommy

We had something similar with rotavirus. It was so sad and horrible.

Do you have a shower with a detachable spray head? Or a kitchen sprayer? (if you did a kitchen sink or kitchen sprayer you need to be really careful not to spread this to others. I assume the diarrhea thing is possibly infectious given his temp!)

Water without wiping really is the best way to rinse if you can figure out a way to do that. And sometimes even the most gentle of creams burn when things are that bad. I don't know how often you're to use the lidocaine gel and if you need something else also for between doses but coconut oil shouldn't burn.

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#6 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 12:19 AM
 
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I don't know if you make ferments, but putting some milk keifer on her bottom would help kill the rash, sooth, and heal because of the probotics in it. Coconut oil would also be good for her bottom as well as coconut water to drink to help keep her hydrated it replenishes electrolytes faster then Gatorade or drinks of that nature, if she doesn't like it plain you can mix it with a little juice. good luck!
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#7 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What's the name of the ointment? Has he been on any antibiotics...wondering why she thought anti-fungal especially if she cultured (which is more common if something bacterial is suspected).

Poor kiddo. And mommy

We had something similar with rotavirus. It was so sad and horrible.

Do you have a shower with a detachable spray head? Or a kitchen sprayer? (if you did a kitchen sink or kitchen sprayer you need to be really careful not to spread this to others. I assume the diarrhea thing is possibly infectious given his temp!)

Water without wiping really is the best way to rinse if you can figure out a way to do that. And sometimes even the most gentle of creams burn when things are that bad. I don't know how often you're to use the lidocaine gel and if you need something else also for between doses but coconut oil shouldn't burn.
Thanks!! It is nystatin cream. It had an UTI 3 weeks ago that had got to his kidneys due to a nurse practioner screwing up (long story) so he had to be on amoxicillin and finished it 2 weeks ago.

I am waiting on the culture b/c she wanted to put him on vancomycin (another antibiotic) but I said not until I find out what he has and then still I want to speak to the naturopath about an alternative. The lidocaine did help last night along with the nystatin cream and increased tyelnol she prescribed for pain. I am really just a mess giving him all these meds. She prescribed 9 in all!! We use homeopathic medicine and all natural remedies so I am not used to giving him tyelnol let alone all this stuff. Sorry for the vent

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I don't know if you make ferments, but putting some milk keifer on her bottom would help kill the rash, sooth, and heal because of the probotics in it. Coconut oil would also be good for her bottom as well as coconut water to drink to help keep her hydrated it replenishes electrolytes faster then Gatorade or drinks of that nature, if she doesn't like it plain you can mix it with a little juice. good luck!
I don't know how to make ferments but can I go to a local store and buy some? I do have capsules of probiotics with the powder in it and yogurt. I tried coconut milk but DS can't stand the stuff even hid in juice. Maybe I will try a smoothie with it.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!
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#8 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Creams and ointments may make it worse. The best thing for us was just plain water and lots of air drying time. It was really all the wiping that caused the problem for us. So, pat, pat, pat and if possible, rinse with no patting or wiping at all. We used cloth wipes too. Just wet with plain water - no commerical wipes with all the stuff in them which can be irritating over time.

We did super frequent changes (the instant he was wet, etc.) when a diaper was worn. This was especially important at night for us. Night time seemed to be "healing" time for all the irritation DS would get so we made sure he stayed dry as much as possible then.

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#9 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 02:46 PM
 
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Poor thing, it always looks like that must hurt so badly when DD has diaper rashes like that. As others have said, try washing his bottom in water and air drying when you can. Not only is it better for the skin, but it has to be much less painful than wiping. For times that you have to wipe, try the California Baby spray. It's called CB Soothing Diaper Area Wash, or something like that. I get it at Target. Spray down well with that, then very gently pat. I have found that the best thing is to apply plenty of organic coconut oil and then top that with Burt's Bees diaper rash ointment. My DD gets really bad rashes, and this usually clears them up within a day. Coconut is a natural anti-fungal, so it's good for clearing up antibiotic diaper rashes.
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#10 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 03:17 PM
 
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vancomycin? That's really weird. They use that to treat c. diff. It really doesn't have other uses and would make yeast worse.

Is that what she thinks he has? After three days of diarrhea? There are lots of causes of diarrhea (including antibiotic associated diarrhea) outside of c. diff. Good for you on asking for the culture. I'm shocked she would even think of prescribing that to him without it. Really strange to me.

I'd give the kiddo a good quality probiotic directly. If he's really young they have some L. Ruturei drops for infants with research behind them. We use Klaire labs probiotics. Culturelle and florastor are wonderful for c. diff but they don't colonize and I'd be surprised if he's positive for c. diff via nursing. I hope he's not. If he is you need to post back a new thread because c. diff takes an entirely different approach.

Depending on his age and if this goes on you may need to take some other actions to kill off bad bacteria and get a fresh start with probiotics. Hopefully it won't come to that.

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#11 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by serenitii View Post
Creams and ointments may make it worse. The best thing for us was just plain water and lots of air drying time. It was really all the wiping that caused the problem for us. So, pat, pat, pat and if possible, rinse with no patting or wiping at all. We used cloth wipes too. Just wet with plain water - no commerical wipes with all the stuff in them which can be irritating over time.

We did super frequent changes (the instant he was wet, etc.) when a diaper was worn. This was especially important at night for us. Night time seemed to be "healing" time for all the irritation DS would get so we made sure he stayed dry as much as possible then.
We have been trying to do that as much a possible. Thanks for the great tips though

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Poor thing, it always looks like that must hurt so badly when DD has diaper rashes like that. As others have said, try washing his bottom in water and air drying when you can. Not only is it better for the skin, but it has to be much less painful than wiping. For times that you have to wipe, try the California Baby spray. It's called CB Soothing Diaper Area Wash, or something like that. I get it at Target. Spray down well with that, then very gently pat. I have found that the best thing is to apply plenty of organic coconut oil and then top that with Burt's Bees diaper rash ointment. My DD gets really bad rashes, and this usually clears them up within a day. Coconut is a natural anti-fungal, so it's good for clearing up antibiotic diaper rashes.
Wow I didn't know that CB had that at target. I might hav eto check that one out soon. Thanks!!

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vancomycin? That's really weird. They use that to treat c. diff. It really doesn't have other uses and would make yeast worse.

Is that what she thinks he has? After three days of diarrhea? There are lots of causes of diarrhea (including antibiotic associated diarrhea) outside of c. diff. Good for you on asking for the culture. I'm shocked she would even think of prescribing that to him without it. Really strange to me.

I'd give the kiddo a good quality probiotic directly. If he's really young they have some L. Ruturei drops for infants with research behind them. We use Klaire labs probiotics. Culturelle and florastor are wonderful for c. diff but they don't colonize and I'd be surprised if he's positive for c. diff via nursing. I hope he's not. If he is you need to post back a new thread because c. diff takes an entirely different approach.

Depending on his age and if this goes on you may need to take some other actions to kill off bad bacteria and get a fresh start with probiotics. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Yes they thought he had c-dif and I didn't think he had that at all. So culture cam eback today and NO c dif but the rest of hte cultures are pending so I have to wait until Tuesday!!:
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#12 of 21 Old 05-22-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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I'm so glad you asked for a culture.

To be blunt...I'd switch doctors. I just can't imagine assuming c. diff and prescribing vancomycin. It's frankly bizzare and sort of scary. My kiddo was hospitalized on a floor with several kids in isolation for c. diff on IV antibiotics with green horrible smelling diarrhea and they cultured. They didn't just decide to prescribe vancomycin even though it "fit" in his case (and not in your sons). And most doctors aren't going to jump to vancomycin first anyway. It won't work on other stuff. I just can't imagine what your doctor was thinking.

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#13 of 21 Old 05-23-2009, 11:41 AM
 
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Vancomycin is one of the antibiotics of last resort, very strong stuff not to be taken lightly!

But diarrhea every 10 minutes is scary too, poor bunny!

None of the natural stuff worked with DS, too full of plant extracts which irritated him. Plain ole Desitin, the smelly version in white tube that has fish oil, not the new fangled scented stuff, was the only thing that worked. And palm oil is the only oil/cream which doesn't burn his skin when he is rashy (Spectrum Naturals organic shortening).

What probiotics are you using? I would do them 3x/day. You need more than yogurt and you need baby probiotics that are high in bifidobacterium. How old is he? This is all probably a rebound from the amox. shifting his gut flora.
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#14 of 21 Old 05-23-2009, 11:45 AM
 
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Next time when on antibiotics I would do the beneficial yeast Sacc. Boulardii. It can be given with the antibiotics it is not killed by them and prevents the gut flora shift. Then do an intensive course lactobacillus/bifido beneficial bacteria afterwards.

I would assume he will be sensitive to antibiotics for the rest of his life and only use them as a last resort (which clearly a kidney infection would be.)
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#15 of 21 Old 05-23-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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If you're nursing, breastmilk! When my babies were in diapers, as long as the rash wasn't fungal (it won't help with a fungal rash), I would wash their bottoms with plain water then pat their bottoms with a breastmilk-soaked cotton ball. Works like magic, plus it's very soothing when you apply it, unlike medicines.

I hope he heals really soon. I remember those sad days with sick little babies. It's hard to watch little ones suffer!

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#16 of 21 Old 05-23-2009, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm so glad you asked for a culture.

To be blunt...I'd switch doctors. I just can't imagine assuming c. diff and prescribing vancomycin. It's frankly bizzare and sort of scary. My kiddo was hospitalized on a floor with several kids in isolation for c. diff on IV antibiotics with green horrible smelling diarrhea and they cultured. They didn't just decide to prescribe vancomycin even though it "fit" in his case (and not in your sons). And most doctors aren't going to jump to vancomycin first anyway. It won't work on other stuff. I just can't imagine what your doctor was thinking.
I have switched peds so much already so I am once again saddened by this. Luckily we did not do the vanco since I knew that it is a last resort antibiotic.

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Vancomycin is one of the antibiotics of last resort, very strong stuff not to be taken lightly!

But diarrhea every 10 minutes is scary too, poor bunny!

None of the natural stuff worked with DS, too full of plant extracts which irritated him. Plain ole Desitin, the smelly version in white tube that has fish oil, not the new fangled scented stuff, was the only thing that worked. And palm oil is the only oil/cream which doesn't burn his skin when he is rashy (Spectrum Naturals organic shortening).

Great thanks for the info!! I tried the desitin (yuck) and t didn't help but his rash was so out of control at that point that I am not sure what would have.

What probiotics are you using? I would do them 3x/day. You need more than yogurt and you need baby probiotics that are high in bifidobacterium. How old is he? This is all probably a rebound from the amox. shifting his gut flora.
Ryan is 22mths. Where do I find the ones high in bifidobacterium? I am currently using the ones prescibed by our naturopath but I will go out and buy these if I know where to look for them.

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Next time when on antibiotics I would do the beneficial yeast Sacc. Boulardii. It can be given with the antibiotics it is not killed by them and prevents the gut flora shift. Then do an intensive course lactobacillus/bifido beneficial bacteria afterwards.

I would assume he will be sensitive to antibiotics for the rest of his life and only use them as a last resort (which clearly a kidney infection would be.)
Where do you find this and how much am I supose to give? We have been doing probiotics since he was on the anitbiotics 3 weeks ago and never stopped giving it to him.

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Originally Posted by UptownZoo View Post
If you're nursing, breastmilk! When my babies were in diapers, as long as the rash wasn't fungal (it won't help with a fungal rash), I would wash their bottoms with plain water then pat their bottoms with a breastmilk-soaked cotton ball. Works like magic, plus it's very soothing when you apply it, unlike medicines.

I hope he heals really soon. I remember those sad days with sick little babies. It's hard to watch little ones suffer!

I am still BFing and this is a wonderful tip. I can't wait to try it out
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#17 of 21 Old 05-23-2009, 11:12 PM
 
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Sach. Bouldari is available as florastor. http://www.newtimrx.com/florastor.html You can get some here. You can also get it from here and they sell an infant product as well with bifidus. These are high quality probiotics. http://www.protherainc.com/prod/products.asp?cat=kpr You have to order with a doctors name though. I've heard of people using Dr. McCandless/that she gives permission to do that. I can give you our doctors code if you need it/pm me. I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

I always have sach. bouldari in this house after my son ended up on emergency antibiotics and I didn't have any. You just never know when you might need it. It's great in that antibiotics don't kill it. It is also good at preventing c. diff which is the one you don't have.
Vanc. isn't last resort exactly...it's just the only real use is for c. diff. A lot of times doctors try another med first. But I would rather use vancomycin and get it personally if a person had c. diff. What I find horrible is that your ped. was going to assume that (wrongly) without culture and give him yet another antibiotic which would probably only make the situation worse. And she was thinking yeast I guess given the Nystatin so to give him another antibiotic for no reason is horrible. I just don't think doctors make assumptions of c. diff without culture so I'm shocked yours did. It's really weird.

I think you're in this mess because the antibiotics killed the probiotics you were giving. I don't think it's a reaction as much as he just got over-populated with the bad bacteria which happens with antibiotics.

I'd try probiotics too. If that doesn't fix it within a couple of weeks you may need to kill off the bad stuff. Let me know if that happens/we had to do that for my son and I can give you suggestions.

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#18 of 21 Old 05-24-2009, 03:46 AM
 
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I would get an antifungul cream
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#19 of 21 Old 05-24-2009, 07:27 AM
 
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Hi. I second the sacro Jane mentioned. It is, in my opinion, a clear cut case of fungal overgrowth in the gut. This will present all over the place and you have a cause in the abx. Here is my unfinished fungus page: Sagacious Mama

This is controversial in this forum but my treatment is threelac or nystatin (oral). I have tried with many people to do it without one of those things but in all honesty, it is just not effective. When you are dealing with a man made substance such as abx, then you need something just as strong to fix it. It isn't ideal, esp the nystatin as it wipes out all yeast, good or bad, but it isn't absorbed and is very safe. I use threelac now with myself and my family, but it is expensive, but in the States I think the price is similar to nystatin (nystatin is prescription here so therefore very cheap).

With the gut yeast treatment we also must kill the systemic yeast, and for that I just use black walnut hull tincture and wormwood tincture. There are others, but they are my choice. They seem to be pretty good. My son's yeast doesn't "flare" anymore, but just a few months ago he got a little spot of eczema or ringworm (all the same to me - fungus) and I treated him the same way and it faded and then left.

The probiotics I use are OMX (random google page) as they are a naturally fermented product by a Japanese man who uses the same type of things as they use for fermenting japanese foods. There are many probiotics in it and I really can't find anything as good as it anywhere.

Topically, as bizarre as this sounds, anti dandruff shampoo can work because it has zinc pyrithione in it (anti fungal). Any cream with zinc in it, also good. Lavender oil diluted in coconut oil, can be good. Oregano oil diluted in oil, preferably coconut oil, also good. You can also eat that, I feed it to my son sometimes because he likes the taste of coconut oil so it helps me give him oils orally. Oregano oil is amazing! I don't know what I'd do without it. Also hydrogen peroxide. Ok externally, more effective internally. Dosage for my son is about 1%, externally 2%, nasal spray about 2% also (should it spread to the sinuses as fungus LOVES to live there and give us sneezy allergies).

Anyway, gotta run, sorry not full info. contact me if you like. Good luck. ABX SUCK. And other mature phraseology.

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#20 of 21 Old 05-24-2009, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sach. Bouldari is available as florastor. http://www.newtimrx.com/florastor.html You can get some here. You can also get it from here and they sell an infant product as well with bifidus. These are high quality probiotics. http://www.protherainc.com/prod/products.asp?cat=kpr You have to order with a doctors name though. I've heard of people using Dr. McCandless/that she gives permission to do that. I can give you our doctors code if you need it/pm me. I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

I always have sach. bouldari in this house after my son ended up on emergency antibiotics and I didn't have any. You just never know when you might need it. It's great in that antibiotics don't kill it. It is also good at preventing c. diff which is the one you don't have.
Vanc. isn't last resort exactly...it's just the only real use is for c. diff. A lot of times doctors try another med first. But I would rather use vancomycin and get it personally if a person had c. diff. What I find horrible is that your ped. was going to assume that (wrongly) without culture and give him yet another antibiotic which would probably only make the situation worse. And she was thinking yeast I guess given the Nystatin so to give him another antibiotic for no reason is horrible. I just don't think doctors make assumptions of c. diff without culture so I'm shocked yours did. It's really weird.

I think you're in this mess because the antibiotics killed the probiotics you were giving. I don't think it's a reaction as much as he just got over-populated with the bad bacteria which happens with antibiotics.

I'd try probiotics too. If that doesn't fix it within a couple of weeks you may need to kill off the bad stuff. Let me know if that happens/we had to do that for my son and I can give you suggestions.
Thanks so much!!

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Originally Posted by LittleBlessings View Post
I would get an antifungul cream
We have nystatin cream for DS thanks though

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Originally Posted by Calm View Post
Hi. I second the sacro Jane mentioned. It is, in my opinion, a clear cut case of fungal overgrowth in the gut. This will present all over the place and you have a cause in the abx. Here is my unfinished fungus page: Sagacious Mama

This is controversial in this forum but my treatment is threelac or nystatin (oral). I have tried with many people to do it without one of those things but in all honesty, it is just not effective. When you are dealing with a man made substance such as abx, then you need something just as strong to fix it. It isn't ideal, esp the nystatin as it wipes out all yeast, good or bad, but it isn't absorbed and is very safe. I use threelac now with myself and my family, but it is expensive, but in the States I think the price is similar to nystatin (nystatin is prescription here so therefore very cheap).

With the gut yeast treatment we also must kill the systemic yeast, and for that I just use black walnut hull tincture and wormwood tincture. There are others, but they are my choice. They seem to be pretty good. My son's yeast doesn't "flare" anymore, but just a few months ago he got a little spot of eczema or ringworm (all the same to me - fungus) and I treated him the same way and it faded and then left.

The probiotics I use are OMX (random google page) as they are a naturally fermented product by a Japanese man who uses the same type of things as they use for fermenting japanese foods. There are many probiotics in it and I really can't find anything as good as it anywhere.

Topically, as bizarre as this sounds, anti dandruff shampoo can work because it has zinc pyrithione in it (anti fungal). Any cream with zinc in it, also good. Lavender oil diluted in coconut oil, can be good. Oregano oil diluted in oil, preferably coconut oil, also good. You can also eat that, I feed it to my son sometimes because he likes the taste of coconut oil so it helps me give him oils orally. Oregano oil is amazing! I don't know what I'd do without it. Also hydrogen peroxide. Ok externally, more effective internally. Dosage for my son is about 1%, externally 2%, nasal spray about 2% also (should it spread to the sinuses as fungus LOVES to live there and give us sneezy allergies).

Anyway, gotta run, sorry not full info. contact me if you like. Good luck. ABX SUCK. And other mature phraseology.
Wow that is great info thanks
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#21 of 21 Old 05-24-2009, 10:39 AM
 
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Before we figured out some well hidden food allergy stuff, my son would get occasionally rashes that would bleed - yipes! I found a miracle cream on this site a couple of years ago that has since been my "go-to" when things get really bad.

I use one tube of Aquaphor, 1 tube of Lotrimin, and 2 oz. of Maalox - or enough to make a paste-like consistency. It usually works pretty quickly. I've also heard that oatmeal baths provide relief.
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