THE Iodine Thread - Page 21 - Mothering Forums

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#601 of 710 Old 03-04-2010, 12:39 AM
 
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Bumping. I am a poor, overly-read chick trying to dx myself on my issues. I've been working with Iodine and feeling a little better, think I am detoxing bromide(which off sets the feeling better thing). That being said, I am trying to solve the mystery of the connections between Iodine deficiency, Hypothyroidism, Adrenal Fatigue and where that all has ominous fingers pointing to Lyme disease. I think. Brain Fog, oh no! If anyone has thoughts regarding those things, do share. LOVE this thread!
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#602 of 710 Old 03-10-2010, 03:05 AM
 
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Paging JaneS!

Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:
Quote:
The thyroid gland requires iodide in order to synthesize the thyroid hormones thyroxin (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). Thus when supplemental iodine is added to the child’s supplements, the form should be a potassium iodide solution. Do not use Lugol’s Solution or Iodoral tablets – the elemental iodine in these products will iodinate T3, turning it back into T4.1 Do not use a kelp or a seaweed product because the form of iodine is unknown.
Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#603 of 710 Old 03-10-2010, 10:30 AM
 
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Paging JaneS!

Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:


Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.
i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?
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#604 of 710 Old 03-10-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?
I'm not sure that she's saying they're not potassium iodide, but that the form of iodine will cause issues (at least that's how I'm reading it.) She recommends Tri-Quench by Scientific Botanicals or Biotics Research Liquid Iodine/Liquid Iodine Forte.

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#605 of 710 Old 03-10-2010, 11:45 PM
 
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and here's a growing blog by Dr. K who does not recommend iodine to Hashimoto's patients:
http://drknews.com/2010/03/10/why-i-...otos-patients/

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#606 of 710 Old 03-11-2010, 08:29 AM
 
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subbing =)

><> Mom to superhero.gif (6) hearts.gif (4) energy.gif (2) and baby.gif (born March!)
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#607 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Paging JaneS!

Quick question- and I apologize if this has already been discussed... it's been months and months since I read this thread through.

I just started doing some reading at the vitamin K Yahoo Group about their vitamin K protocol (we're looking into it because of elevated oxalic acid levels in DD and possible calcium regulation issues.)

One of the group leaders says in her writings:


Any thoughts about this? I know that Lugol's and Iodoral are the 2 main sources that have been promoted throughout this thread, so reading this caught me by surprise.
I've never seen this before, is there a reference for this? I went into the group files and she doesn't cite background. Different organs use iodine and iodide.
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#608 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 04:16 PM
 
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I've never seen this before, is there a reference for this? I went into the group files and she doesn't cite background. Different organs use iodine and iodide.
She has that reference listed as:
Quote:
1Evidence of thyroxine formation following iodine administration in Sprague-Dawley rats. Thrall KD, Sauer RL, Bull RJ. J Toxicol Environ Health. 1992 Dec;37(4):535-48.
(It was in the middle of the doc, not at the end.)

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#609 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i thought they are potassium iodide. where would you get potassium iodide if they're not?

They are a combination of both iodine and iodide.
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#610 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She has that reference listed as:


(It was in the middle of the doc, not at the end.)

It seems like a stretch to me to make that inference based on this one animal study but I'm not as familiar with her protocol and the history of giving only iodide to humans. Is this also coming from the Wilson's Syndrome information on reverse T3? It's been a while since I've read that.

I'm confused b/c she bases some of her theories on iodine/iodide on Dr. Brownstein's research:

Quote:
The concept of a high loading dose followed after several months by a lower maintenance dose is based on the work of Dr. David Brownstein (see references). The high loading dose supplies iodide to non-thyroidal tissues and organs that utilize iodide; once those tissues are replete, the iodide dose is reduced to a maintenance level.
But what about the non-thyroidal tissues and organs which use iodine, which is a good part of Brownstein's research and why he recs both iodine and iodide?

I would ask this question on the Iodine Yahoo group.

I would also love to know more about how the body converts iodine to iodide. I wonder if there are some people who cannot convert it, and that is not one the problems that needs to be overcome?
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#611 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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Time to throw in my data point...

My thyroid tests normal, though free T4 is high-ish (within normal) and free T3 is low-ish (within normal). So I think I have trouble converting. My only thyroid symptoms are fatigue and cold temperature. My mom has clear and obvious thyroid stuff, though (and tests normal for everything, too).

At the beginning of this pregnancy (39 weeks now), I started supping atomidine (low dose, iodide only) to work up to a decent dose of iodine to switch to lugol's. I quickly discovered that 1) if I took iodine, I didn't have pressing fatigue the next day; and 2) the lugol's didn't have any effect at all compared to the atomidine, even at higher doses.

So the two explanations I can come up with are, either the lugol's is old (it was about 18 months old, stored in it's dark bottle, not opened very much), or the form makes a big difference for me.

Strangely, I stopped needing the iodine second trimester, and I'm only sporadically using it now...

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#612 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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and here's a growing blog by Dr. K who does not recommend iodine to Hashimoto's patients:
http://drknews.com/2010/03/10/why-i-...otos-patients/
While I know that iodine can exacerbate Hashi's, I'm still not sure that the the correct endpoint to arrive. I just read that one page but I didn't see mention of selenium deficiency... Brownstein treats his Hashi's patients as deficienct in both iodine and antioxidants as the etiology of the disease. Selenium alone will reduce TPO antibodies. Magnesium and other antioxidants are recommended as well, ATP cofactors: B2 and B3, vitamin C.

My holistic RD takes high iodine, along with other nutritional protocols, including going gluten free, and her Hashi's has improved greatly, to the tune of having another baby! (Low thyroid is often a cause of infertility.)
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#613 of 710 Old 03-12-2010, 07:58 PM
 
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Hi All -

I am new here and glad I found this thread. I hope you forgive me for not reading all 31 pages and get right to my questions.

Six years ago my thyroid was tested with mixed results. My TSH/T3/T4 and reverse something were all normal, however I had high anti-thyroid antibodies (ATA).

I used natural products and requested my ATA be retested after several months and even though doctor resisted testing, wrote the prescription and my ATA's declined frm > 400 to 12.

I then did the loading test and iodine was 67%. They did not order the bromine excretion part of the test at that time so I do not know. I was on 25 mg Ioderol due to small thyroid nodules. Also at that time I had 12 uterine fibroids. I became pregnant. I stopped the ioderol because I was concerned of bromine/chlorine/flouride/mercury detoxing. I have now been breastfeeding for 10 months. We are weaning soon and I look forward to returning to Ioderol.

Six months post-partum, my thyroid nodules returned and my ATA's are now > 200. I assume that pregnancy had something to do with this. My ATA's were between 12-13 for about four years, prior to pregnancy.

Questions:
1. how much ioderol supplementing do you think is safe for pregnancy in 1st trimester, 2nd & 3rd trimester?
2. Would you be concerned with any type of detoxing created by the high doses of iodine/iodide during pregnancy?
3. How much during breastfeeding?

I have read one of Dr Brownstein's books on thyroid & Iodine.

The endocrinologist wants to do a needle biopsy of the largest nodule, wants me to start prescription T4 drug, did not ask or mention iodine supplementation at all. I am not taking the T4 drug as it also passes through to breast milk. I would prefer to use high doses of iodine instead.

Thank you for your comments/suggestions.

p.s. post partum ultrasound shows only two small fibroids remain. ?? Not sure which natural product I used, but it was not iodine because I stopped taking it during pregnancy.

p.p.s. I just found a goat farm that will sell raw milk. I will call and ask if they use iodine.

Cheryl, mom to Olivia Grace (May 2009), Zackary James (Jun 2012)

both hypnobabies births

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#614 of 710 Old 03-13-2010, 02:29 AM
 
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While I know that iodine can exacerbate Hashi's, I'm still not sure that the the correct endpoint to arrive. I just read that one page but I didn't see mention of selenium deficiency... Brownstein treats his Hashi's patients as deficienct in both iodine and antioxidants as the etiology of the disease. Selenium alone will reduce TPO antibodies. Magnesium and other antioxidants are recommended as well, ATP cofactors: B2 and B3, vitamin C.

My holistic RD takes high iodine, along with other nutritional protocols, including going gluten free, and her Hashi's has improved greatly, to the tune of having another baby! (Low thyroid is often a cause of infertility.)
Same here!
I have Hashi's and can't tolerate any THR. High doses of iodine (Iodoral) have been a godsend for me.
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#615 of 710 Old 03-13-2010, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cheryl,

I would seek out an iodine literate practitioner to work with since you are dealing with Hashi's.
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

Pregnancy and breastfeeding also puts a strain on iodine stores as the baby and breastmilk requires it as well. There is not a hard and fast rule re: detoxing, it so individual as to what you are dealing with. There is some research at www.iodine4health.com you can look into on pregnancy.

I would make sure I was taking enough quality supplements to support my thyroid.

B vitamins, I currently love MegaFood's Balanced Bs, I take 1 w/ bfast and 1 w/ lunch.

High vitamin cod liver oil, 2 tsp of Blue Ice or Radiant Life.

Extra D3 since you live in MN, see The Vitamin D Council website.

Selenium 200mcg. per day at the lowest amount, I like Jarrow's SeleNext.

Vitamin C sodium ascorbate several grams per day and/or natural form NOW Acerola powder.

Magnesium, chelated or glycinate or citrate 1000mg/day divided and/or transdermal oil and/or Epsom salt baths.
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#616 of 710 Old 03-17-2010, 06:13 PM
 
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Hi Jane -

Thank you for your answers.

There is no physician in Minnesota. My functional medicine M.D. started me on ioderol after the iodine loading test. He does know some, but not as much as I'd like.

I was on the iodine yahoo group 2008/2009 and did not receive any help with my pregnancy questions. That's why I do continue to ask questions where I can. I can go back there and check again as I haven't kept up with that group this past year.

I do use D3, cod liver oil, vitamin B.
I have not checked how much selenium I am getting but will add that.
I do have calme forte for magnesium but am unsure when to use it. It says to keep increasing until loose stools, but I don't have any bm issues and am afraid my stools will get loser, they are fine right now.

I am currently taking 12.5 mg iodine and am looking forward to being able to increase to 25 once dd is weaned.

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both hypnobabies births

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#617 of 710 Old 03-26-2010, 04:49 PM
 
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subbing. I was just dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis and doing some research about iodine. I'd better check out that link about iodine an H.

Mama of 3 girls: 7.5 , 6 , and 4.5
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#618 of 710 Old 03-26-2010, 11:18 PM
 
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subbing. I was just dx'd with Hashimoto's thyroiditis and doing some research about iodine. I'd better check out that link about iodine an H.
I to have hashis...still haven't decided on iodine since the info is conflicting I'm currently reading this book at www.thyroidbook.com

It's full of great info and is all about people with Hashis. I absolutely love the book.
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#619 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 12:08 AM
 
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I to have hashis...still haven't decided on iodine since the info is conflicting I'm currently reading this book at www.thyroidbook.com

It's full of great info and is all about people with Hashis. I absolutely love the book.
been meaning to get that

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#620 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 09:37 AM
 
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been meaning to get that
OH JacquelineR you really should soon....I think you will love it. It has a great section on adrenal fatigue as well. When you do get it let me know what you think
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#621 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So if he doesn't use iodine or thyroid hormone to treat Hashi's, what does he use?

What does he say is the cause? His stat that 90% of hypo is caused by Hashi's is really surprising to me. Does he think that the antibody ranges are wrong? (Thinking I have to go back and look at my tests now. I know I was in the normal range.)
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#622 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 02:57 PM
 
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So if he doesn't use iodine or thyroid hormone to treat Hashi's, what does he use?

What does he say is the cause? His stat that 90% of hypo is caused by Hashi's is really surprising to me. Does he think that the antibody ranges are wrong? (Thinking I have to go back and look at my tests now. I know I was in the normal range.)
He uses diet(no gluten, possibly no dairy),herbs, and other supplements,and in some cases thyroid hormone. One of his first steps is to determine whether a person is TH-1 dominant or TH-2. The risk factors he mentions for developing Hahis is gluten intolerance,insulin resistance, PCOS, estrogen fluctuations,Vitamin D deficiency,chronic infection, inflammation and immune reaction to heavy metals and environmental pollutants.He also has a chapter on 22 patterns of low thyroid function that's so interesting! His main course of action is to treat the immune system not the thyroid first since hashis is an immune disease and not a thyroid disease. He doesn't think the antibody ranges are wrong. He gives a lot of recs for supps but doesn't name brands or amounts to take.

I'm not the best at explaining things so I hope that helped. It's really a great book, I just finished it.I would love to get into his practice! I'm surprised that you haven't read it Jane.
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#623 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 06:07 PM
 
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Sounds interesting, did you read his bio? Feels a bit 'certification happy'. And has most of his experience in sports medicine?

"He is a product development consultant to the nutrition industry and has been involved with the formulation of nutritional products such as metabolic creams, nutritional and herbal formulas, sublingual hormones and metabolic foods" makes me doubt his accuracy. However, I like the theory and am curious of his research.

"instructed over 4,000 hours of postgraduate education in laboratory analysis, diagnosis, and nutritional management." is about two years of ACADEMIC (non-real life) experience. And he is fresh on the scene with his new website? Looking for real stories and experience to read. Sounds like a pharmaceutical MD in nutritional supplement DC clothes, to me who is internet marketing a book on a popular topic.

His "testimonials" come from his classes, it appears, not from consulting and treating real patients. http://www.thyroidbook.com/book-testimonials.html

I'll go check PubMed, etc.


Sounds a bit like Dr. Mercola selling HIS solution to the world's problems. Am I sounding cynical today?


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#624 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 06:23 PM
 
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Sounds a bit like Dr. Mercola selling HIS solution to the world's problems. Am I sounding cynical today?


Pat
When he explains things in the book, he gets to a level of detail that satisfies my curiosity. I haven't dived into thyroid stuff much to be able to compare it to other resources, but just based on how he writes, it seems like he actually knows what he's talking about. I'm taking it as a great starting point, but still want to do my own fact checking to make sure I'm interpreting things the same as him.

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#625 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 06:54 PM
 
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"He instructs postgraduate courses sponsored by Bridgeport [University?] and conducts seminars across the country." http://www.nutritionalwellness.com/a...5_insomnia.php

A bit more info about what the book purports. http://allergyexpert.wordpress.com/2...llergy-relief/

I find NO ncbi or Pubmed studies to his credit.



Seems like a marketing rep. http://hormoneseminars.com/about.htm


Some interesting studies he references. (not his research)

"In conclusion, 78.3% of patients with hypothyroidism due to Hashimoto’s thyroiditis regained an euthyroid state iodine restriction alone. Both a low initial serum TSH and a high initial urinary iodine concentration can be predictable factors for a recovery from hypothyroidism due to Hashimoto’s thyroiditis after restricting their iodine intake.(13) "
http://drknews.com/2010/03/08/some-s...yroid-disease/

An interesting further discussion of iodine restriction to address hypothyroid?!? http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/459924_4

It seems to postulate that in a small subset of hypothyroid patients (seemingly those with auto-immune thyroid issues associated with celiac, perhaps?) could benefit from iodine restriction and instead supplement thyroid hormone replacement (which is available for sale!).

Thus the recs to avoid grains, restrict iodine and buy thyroid supplements. Wonder if he consults with thyroid supplement manufacturers?

ETA: I ran across a testing lab he is working for which does his recommended lab tests. The connection to lab testing services and manufacturers leads me to question the objectivity of the testing/supplement recs. I know this is common with many "health professionals" nowadays. http://www.professionalco-op.com/seminars/seminars.html


His seminars are expensive! http://gowen.info/yahoo_site_admin/a....333112254.pdf

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#626 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 07:46 PM
 
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When he explains things in the book, he gets to a level of detail that satisfies my curiosity. I haven't dived into thyroid stuff much to be able to compare it to other resources, but just based on how he writes, it seems like he actually knows what he's talking about. I'm taking it as a great starting point, but still want to do my own fact checking to make sure I'm interpreting things the same as him.
Best testimonial I've read today.


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#627 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 07:57 PM
 
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Apparently, Glysen, Adaptocrine, Adrenocalm are some of the recommended supplements and are proprietary to Apex Energetics, for whom he does "educational" seminars. http://www.apexenergetics.com/

"According to Dr. Datis Kharrazian, Blood Chemistry Seminar instructor and supplements formulator for Apex Energetics, Inc"


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#628 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 08:10 PM
 
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Confessions of a serial poster. I'm obsessed with this idea of locating research about nutrition and autoimmune thyroid issues.

As an fyi:
Datis Kharrazian from Apex Energetics says not to use maca, because it up regulates the Th1 immune response, which is also responsible for Hashimoto's. I have found studies corroborating Th1 cytokines involved in Hashimoto's but nothing about maca’s immune stimulating effects.

http://www.macatalk.com/faqs/adrenal.html


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#629 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 08:13 PM
 
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I am both intrigued by the science and impressed by the marketing acumen.

This is the marketing spiel to nutrition/chiro's to " Functional Marketing Building your ideal science-based nutrition practice." promoted by Datis Kharrazian Apex Energetics in his "educational seminars"


Quote:
10 Steps to Success with Functional Nutrion
Blood Nutrition System
Top 30 Apex Products

Affordable & Effective Local Advertising
Patient Marketing Letter
http://www.adamapex.com/about-me/


ETA: Buy now, Grand Total for 12-month program $ 2,859.35 Price per month $ 238.28 (DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY SUPPLEMENT PRODUCTS SOLD TO THE PATIENT)

"Run a comprehensive blood panel on everyone in your office NOW (or on their first visit) and follow-up every 30-60 days with the same panel. You can't believe how much of a difference this will make with your patients. Your credibility and results will soar. Tech support is free through Apex tech support for all of your cases. You can sell packages for multiple visits and labs that will save them huge amounts of money, and by using Direct Labs or Professional Co-op your rates are incredibly low for testing too."

"As part of the program family, you will also receive a 10% discount on most supplements required for the program"

http://www.adamapex.com/ (select "home")


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#630 of 710 Old 03-27-2010, 08:24 PM
 
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cynical, I am.


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