THE Iodine Thread - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-06-2009, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Whome,

I cannot wait until you read the Oxidation and Organification section of Brownstein's new book!
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Radioactive Iodine

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Originally Posted by so_fetch View Post
What I meant was that I don't understand how the radioactive iodine could have killed my thyroid cells but not my other cells- given that they all have iodine receptors.
I guess my thought would be: How do you know it has not? You might not find out until later. See above re: RAI and bones as just one example, it has been proven to go to other receptors on the body.

Did you have symptoms after taking RAI? This story said to me that it effected other parts of the body...

Quote:
The function of I-131 in treatment of thyroid cancer is to kill thyroid tissue along with cancer however, I-131 is not that discriminating. Many doctors tell their patients prior to an ablation treatment that it is the greatest form of treatment because it ONLY goes to the thyroid gland and there is no other cancer treatment like this.THIS IS NOT TRUE. Iodine goes to every gland and mucosal lining in your body. They all use iodine and when it comes in - radioactive or not it will pull it in through its NIS (sodium iodine symporters) into the cells and damage the DNA of that cell. Most will die but many will be mutated through this process. If you spend time on the thyroid cancer boards you will see many women who later get breast cancer and in men it is prostate cancer...

When I had my last round of RAI (250 mCi's), I lost almost all saliva, had a burning tongue, developed sores on the inside of my nose and vomited for 3 days. I am now sensitive to gluten and am in early menopause. My immune system was low for 1 year after treatment. My breast developed 3 fibrous masses as well. I also went into severe adrenal fatigue. So many things could be tied to RAI yet my Endocrinologist told me there was no correlation and that he had never heard of anyone having issues like I did. Yet it is common - there are many more of us.

If one were to think about all this rationally and lay aside what conventional doctors say, it is impossible to believe that there is no damage to the body. The RAI does not go to just the thyroid bed and attack the remaining tissue and manage to find other "stray" thyroid cancer cells without touching anything. If it is in the blood it is everywhere. As it exits the body it is in the stomach, intestines and colon along with the bladder...

Even though I had 3 rounds of RAI, I do not recommend it to others. I was not informed that there were natural options available for treating thyroid cancer. It was not until I was facing external beam radiation after 3 failed RAI's that I sought the help of a holistic MD. I am now meeting individuals who have healed from thyroid cancer without thyroidectomies or RAI by using thyroid supporting nutrients.

Natural Thyroid Choices:
Just say NO to Thyroidectomies, RAI and Synthetic hormones.
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/RAI.html
Stephanie from that website is now a patient of Dr. Brownstein and moderator of the Iodine Yahoo group.
http://www.iodine4health.com/basic/iodinegroup.htm



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Originally Posted by so_fetch View Post
As for natural iodine treating thyroid cancer, I also don't understand that. The whole point of the RAI treatment, as I understood it, was that it would be absorbed by all my thyroid cells, including those that had become cancerous, and kill them. This meant that even if the cancer had spread into lymph nodes/other parts of the body, because they originated in the thyroid they would still uptake iodine and be killed. I don't fully understand what normal iodine would do then, wouldn't it just stimulate the thyroid cells (cancerous and non) to continue growing?
See above re: apoptosis and cell death. I'd love to learn more about it!
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My mom had her thyroid removed b/c it had a tumor (turned out to be benign). Would she benefit from Iodine?
Yes again, since there are receptors all over the body. And most certainly the tumor could have been caused by iodine deficiency. I know that people with thyroid nodules have a higher risk of cancer, so she probably does as well.

OMG, that makes me fume! : When was this?

Presumably she is on thyroid medication too? Does she feel good? The thyroid project researchers have said that thyroid meds w/o iodine will increase body's need for it even more. She should probably see a practitioner who knows about iodine.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pat,

You know I agree with you too on a basic level! I appreciate this opinion and believe me, I wrestle with the concept.

I have just reached a place in my life and my health where I have done everything I can to eat the best diet I possibly can ... which included food sources of iodine from seaweeds... and there are still some things missing and not working.

My basal body temps are low. I still do not have the energy, sleep, mood and brain function of years past. I do not believe it's "aging" as they have certainly all improved on a TF diet. Although certainly my very high stress life in recent years has also contributed. The temps are the most telling for me that there is more to the equation and my thyroid function is not working as it should. Low basal body temps can only be caused by reduced thyroid function and some rare other conditions and medications.

I have in my health history a lot of examples of toxic load: mercury, antibiotics, bromide, fluoride. I still think that fighting unnatural body states with vitamins/minerals, even unnatural supplements, are quite possibly the best answer we have to resolve a disease state that is not otherwise budging.

For me, iodine supplementation is one step I need to take based on my intuition right now. And so far my intuition's been pretty darn good.

My point in starting this thread is to raise awareness that iodine deficiency can effect so many conditions which have exploded in recent years. And there are clinicians treating these disorders successfully by replacing our natural bodily need for iodine with a safe mineral supplement.

I think if the kelp or dulse is calling you, go for it! But maybe make sure it's been tested for halides...? Like any other supplement, awareness of how it effects the body and in what dosage could be the difference between health and disease. I'd hate for someone to continue to go through what I did: eating certain amounts of seaweed and not having it work and wondering, why?
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I also forgot to add other reasons why I'm particularly concerned about my thyroid:

One grandmother had hers removed "due to complications from scarlet fever" is the story. No one knows for sure why exactly.

The other grandmother died of a heart attack at age 55, often a sign of thyroid problems.

My father, age 69, has multiple thyroid nodules.

My DS has low basal body temps too and our holistic RD wants to address them including iodine supplementation. I'll be posting Brownstein's guidelines for children in a minute.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Children and Iodine

As Nichole posted above, there is some evidence that ADD/ADHD and autism can be caused in part by iodine deficiency. There is also some correlation with mood and depression problems. Low iodine certainly has been shown to reduce IQ and retard growth. Iodine can influence development of human growth hormone.

Guidelines for testing and supplementing children from IODINE: Why You Need It, Why You Can't Live Without It:

Quote:
HOW TO TEST A CHILD FOR IODINE

If a child weighs less than 80lbs (36kg) he can take 12.5mg of iodine/iodide (1 Iodoral tablet or 2 drops of Lugol's solution) in the morning. Then, 24 hours of urine is collected and a sample is sent for analysis. It is important to let the laboratory know that it is a child being tested and that the child did not take the usual adult loading test iodine amount (50mg). Both laboratories (FFP and Hakala) ... will perform an iodine loading test on children.
Quote:
DOSING A CHILD WITH IODINE

It is important to remember that every individual is a unique biochemical person. No one dose fits all. My experience has shown that iodine (in the form of iodine/iodide) dosed at 0.25mg/kg/day (or 0.11mg/pounds/day) is an approximate amount of iodine to ingest for most children. However, I do not suggest supplementing a child without working with a knowledgeable health care provider who can properly test and follow your child's laboratory results.
My DS weighs 50 lbs so that would be 5.5mg or 3 drops of Iosol. I would start him on 1 drop and titrate up.

The following stat is eye opening... what if low iodine is indeed a primary cause of the high prevalence of ASD disorders?

Quote:
Researchers reported in 2005 that 16.8 percent of women of childbearing age had moderate to severe iodine deficiency (urinary iodine concentrations less than 50mcg/L).
This is an increase from 2.6% in 1970, also quoted in Brownstein's book.

He offers the research done on Japanese pregnant women showing 12mg on average intake as a safe amount to take while pg. and underscores the need to stock iodine stores before pg.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But what I'm wondering is if the bromine in the seaweed doesn't buffer the iodine somehow, so even if they're absorbing it and excreting it, if the bromine is interfering, wouldn't that need to be taken into account when translating it into a dose of a purified supplement?
Here is that post... in reading the organification and oxidation information I couldn't help but wonder if other nutrients help the iodine "stay" where it is in the receptors when the body ingests bromides?

Edit: is there some kind of MDC prize for 9 posts in a row? OCD much?
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another thing I came across with respect to children and pg is that apoptosis controls the development of body parts in the fetus. Such as fingers: apoptosis occurs between them as they are formed...

So iodine deficiency could be the result of babes that are born with various abnormalities where their body parts are fused.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Using Iodine on the Skin and for Bacteria/Virus Control

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All pre-malignant lesions and many other oddities of the skin appear to respond to this regeneration process triggered by topical iodine. I have mentioned previously a patient with a biopsy-proven breast cancer lesion (she refused surgery because of previous cancer treatment) that was strongly fixed to the skin responding well to topical iodine and ended up being a dimple on the breast three year later. (6)

It is my belief a water solution of iodine (like Lugol's) is an important therapeutic agent for skin. Because of its effectiveness and the results, perhaps many skin diseases are related to local tissue areas of relative iodine deficiency. Perhaps the most graphic lesions are the "keloid" (worm) incision scars formed after surgical procedures. If the iodine intake and tissue levels are adequate, such as in Japan, keloid formation doesn't happen (7). In addition, iodine's ability to trigger natural cell death (apoptosis) (5) makes it effective against all pre-cancerous skin lesions and likely many cancerous lesions. The local site is replaced with normal skin. However, even lesser doses of topical iodine seem to reverse the ominous appearance of skin lesions. Because my older brother died of metastatic melanoma, my chances of getting a malignant melanoma are increased by 400 times. (8-9) Having grown up in Venezuela near the equator my sun exposure at a young age was far above normal. So all suspicious lesions I notice are returned to normal with topical Lugol's.
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Some of our recent serious skin diseases such a "flesh-eating disease" should respond quickly to topical iodine treatment practiced by Fanny. Or, for another example, iodine put onto a mosquito bite would kill all bacteria and viruses at the site of the bite within 10-30 seconds making it impossible for any virus or bacteria to multiply and get started --such as in West Nile Fever. Naturally, this applies to tic bites (Lyme's disease) as well. For many decades in the 1800s people carried around little bottles of iodine around their necks to use on all occasions. People in mosquito and tic infested areas should think of doing this again. (8) In addition, it has been forgotten vaporized iodine rapidly kills air borne viruses such as polio and SARS viruses.. Used extensively in the forties and fifties it may be of use to explore this approach again.
Dr. David Derry at: http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl2a.htm
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:30 PM
 
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Are you sure this is not just a mainstream point of view?

I haven't spent much time over at the Cancer section of www.iodine4health.com but my understanding is that inorganic non radioactive iodine induces "apoptosis" ... which means cell death of abnormal cells.
http://iodine4health.com/disease/thy...oid_cancer.htm

Iodine induced apoptosis can influence shrinking of non cancerous conditions such as thyroid nodules, cysts and keliods but also used in skin cancer and cancerous tumors. Apoptosis, or when cells die off and are replaced, is our primary defense against cancer. Cancer cells are cells which do not undergo apoptosis.

The 4th edition of Brownstein's book talks a bit about apoptosis and how ATP cofactors (vitamins B2 and B3) influence. It's a very interesting concept to think about and could certainly apply to many different benign and malignant conditions.
I read the article and I thought it was very interesting, so thank you for the link! The problem I see is that the line after the one you bolded, "Cancer cells are cells which do not undergo apoptosis." Apoptosis is not exactly the death of abnormal cells, it is the death of all cells. Normal cells undergo apoptosis regularly, it is how the body regulates itself.

However, the problem with cancerous cells is that they do not undergo apoptosis because there is something wrong with them. Therefore, the apoptosis inducing property of iodine is not relevant to cancer treatment because the cancerous cells are not able to undergo apoptosis.

I am not a doctor and all of this is from reading that I have done to educate myself and try to make informed decisions about my cancer treatments.

As for the other links you posted in your other post (So much information in one place!) That is really horrible to read about how sick that woman got after getting her treatment. I fortunately had virtually no symptoms, it's really scary to think that that could have happened.

Thank you so much for all of the links. I really want to learn about all of this because I am so interested about how all of these things affect my body.
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Are you sure this is not just a mainstream point of view?
Pretty certain as it's happening all over the US in alternative medicine circles where the physicians are evaluating iodine research and treating accordingly. More info is available every day, but this is being done by doctors who are focused on iodine testing and supplementation.
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:58 PM
 
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Jane,
Have you ever tried anything aside from diet? For yourself?
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For thyroid? No.
Whoops, that's not exactly true! I tried Thyroid Factors with guggul gum, and that was murder on my stomach. Back when I was working with my nutritionist on me! Otherwise, it's been all DS, all the time pretty much.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pretty certain as it's happening all over the US in alternative medicine circles where the physicians are evaluating iodine research and treating accordingly. More info is available every day, but this is being done by doctors who are focused on iodine testing and supplementation.
Well it sounds from Stephanie from Natural Thyroid Choices that there are thyroid cancer patients just treating with iodine and nutrients. I don't know if Brownstein does it, as I said she is his patient, maybe there is more on her Yahoo group. I'll have to keep my eyes open.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Panserbjørne,

Brownstein's book says:

Quote:
Iodine supplementation has been shown to significantly improve the prognosis of thyroid cancer by shifting the type of cancer to a more easily treatable (i.e., differentiated) form.
Brownstein also treats breast cancer patients with iodine:

Quote:
Iodine/iodide supplementation has markedly improved the course of illness in fibrocystic breasts in almost all of my patients with fibrocystic breast disease. In addition those with breast cancer also improve. Nodules and fibrous changes of the breasts significantly improve in a short time period. I believe that the epidemic of breast disease we are seeing in this country is due, in no small part, to iodine deficiency.
So_fetch,

(are you a Ruff Ruffman fan?)

Yes, you are correct, cancer cells are abnormal cells that do not undergo apoptosis and thus continue to grow!
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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Yes again, since there are receptors all over the body. And most certainly the tumor could have been caused by iodine deficiency. I know that people with thyroid nodules have a higher risk of cancer, so she probably does as well.

OMG, that makes me fume! : When was this?

Presumably she is on thyroid medication too? Does she feel good? The thyroid project researchers have said that thyroid meds w/o iodine will increase body's need for it even more. She should probably see a practitioner who knows about iodine.
this was probably 5 years ago. She's on whatever the common thyroid medication is. However, she doesn't feel very good. I got her to go see a functional medicine guy and he wanted her to do an adrenal test. 3 months later she hasn't done it. I'm not sure if he's familiar with thyroid stuff though. I'll never get her to see anyone. She's tired all the time.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:32 PM
 
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Can one of you more knowledgeable ladies give your opinion on what I have experienced since being on and off Iodoral? Perhaps some information has already been posted that I missed. I saw a soon to be naturopath in April and filled out several detailed pages concerning my health and diet. She and another educated friend seperately suggested Iodoral for symptoms I have experienced for some time - low energy, foggy brain, cold feet, breast cysts. I was warned by my friend that in rare instances the iodine could lead to a hyperthyroid state. I usually do more in depth research, but this time got some basic information, looked at the potential benefits, and thought that it made sense to try the iodine. We currently have no income coming in and are trying to get by until we have some means, so I did not do the testing. I started out at 50 mg because that is what the naturopath ordered for me. The first week I had more energy and maybe only a day of possible detox symptoms, and a couple of people said I was glowing. After two weeks, I woke up warm and jittery in the middle of the night and decided to go down to 25 mg. The third week I had severe headaches, red eyes that just felt weird (like air moving around them), and increased potty runs, so I cut back again to approximately 12 mg, and then after the fourth week stopped completely. I've continued to have terrible headaches.

I have been off for two weeks, and I keep feeling warm in the middle of the night and the first half of the day. Our house is kept at 76 degrees, and I keep wearing a sleeveless shirt, drinking ice water, standing in the freezer, and still feeling warm. Aside from warmth, I hadn't been jittery until the last couple of days. I feel completely exhausted again, like I am unable to cope, highly irritable, and afraid that I have permanently messed up my thyroid and put it into a hyper state by not being more cautious.

I might add that I do tend to magnify whatever is going on in my life at the time, so I don't know if perhaps I am being hyper-SENSITIVE to the possibility of a problem, experiecing detox or withdrawal symptoms, or if I've got a hyper thyroid state now instead of the previously presumed (but not confirmed) hypo state. My resting heart beat was already at a high 100 before the iodine and I've had a tremor since I was in the fourth grade, so those symptom indicators don't help me much.

So, I'd really love some feedback from those who have read, experienced more about what may be going on as I am afraid right now of having done permanent harm and we really don't have the means for me to do the thyroid testing and iodine testing, though I suppose there's always a way. Even if I wait until I can do the testing, should I be taking the support supplements? I have magnesium, wheat germ oil for E, CLO, sea salt, and brewer's yeast for B vitamins (though it looked like it would take 26 TB of the yeast to reach the amount of B vitamins recommended on the Breast Cancer Choices site which references iodine usage). Thank you so much for posting this thread, and please help!
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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So_fetch,

(are you a Ruff Ruffman fan?)

Yes, you are correct, cancer cells are abnormal cells that do not undergo apoptosis and thus continue to grow!
Actually my username is a reference to Mean Girls! I never even thought of the Ruff Ruffaman connection!

I've been thinking about the article that you linked to about iodine inducing apoptosis in thyroid cells. If it does (and it certainly seems to) wouldn't taking iodine supplements be bad for you? Obviously everyone needs some iodine, but if a normally healthy person gets iodine from things like salt and seafood and then gets even MORE iodine from supplements, wouldn't that kill off some thyroid cells and cause them to develop hypothyroidism?
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:00 PM
 
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is constipation a detox sign? The only way I've been comfortable the past few days is by taking 700 mg of mag. Being able two ingest that much mag is a new experience for me. I normally can't do more than 150. (I am taking taurine which is increasing mag bowel tolerance.) I am trying to drink more than normal to help myself out. I've tried a salt flush two times and I just end up feeling puffy, no extra pee. I'm taking two drops of Lugol's a day.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:47 AM
 
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is constipation a detox sign? The only way I've been comfortable the past few days is by taking 700 mg of mag. Being able two ingest that much mag is a new experience for me. I normally can't do more than 150. (I am taking taurine which is increasing mag bowel tolerance.) I am trying to drink more than normal to help myself out. I've tried a salt flush two times and I just end up feeling puffy, no extra pee. I'm taking two drops of Lugol's a day.
I've seen that doing stuff to mobilize toxins increases my nutrient needs--is your mag need going up just after the iodine, or after the taurine, or both? I was assuming the first.

I didn't pee extra after trying the salt flush, I think my adrenals meant that on an ongoing basis, I haven't been holding onto sodium properly. If you keep trying, maybe that would change? If you get fully hydrated first (if it's the same as the issue I'm having). Though I didn't feel puffy, I just noticed I felt better for the next day or two (energy-wise).
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:52 AM
 
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ok, I've been taking 12.5mg iodine for 3 days and I"m sleeping horribly. I'm taking between 1200 & 1500mg of mag. too and I'm definitely at bowel tolerance.

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Old 06-08-2009, 10:49 AM
 
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is constipation a detox sign?

Yes, especially yeast die-off.

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Old 06-08-2009, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
ok, I've been taking 12.5mg iodine for 3 days and I"m sleeping horribly. I'm taking between 1200 & 1500mg of mag. too and I'm definitely at bowel tolerance.
Since you're nursing, I'd say stop and try to work on catching up with what's mobilized.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:48 PM
 
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I have slowly upped my iodine intake to 2 1/2 Iodoral (31.5 mg approx.). Over the last week or so, I have had two nights where I had very vivid and somewhat disturbing dreams that once I wake from them, I'm up for about an hour with very heightened anxiety/anxiety attacks. Is this from the Iodine? Should I stop the iodine? Back way off to 1 pill a day? I'm taking magnesium (probably 600 mg a day), I get at least 125 mcg of selenium a day, and if I remember to eat a Brazil nut, I get more. I can't keep having these dreams/anxiety issues at night though. Help.

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Old 06-08-2009, 02:28 PM
 
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OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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Where do i find an iodine friendly doc?I tried the links provided but didn't seem to work
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, I just got my results back:

Spot urinary iodide level - .142 mg/l

24 hr urinary iodine test

total iodine excredted 43.674 mg (from 50 mg loading dose)
% excreted 87%

So is this good or bad? Because below it says that if I excrete more than 90% I might have one of several problems and 90% is pretty close to 87%. How would I know for sure if I have one of these other problems?
What is the normal range for spot levels?
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:26 PM
 
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What is the normal range for spot levels?
So my level was .142 mg/l

WHO define any measurement below .10 mg/l as an iodine deficiency.

But the thing that concerned me was the part where it said if I excrete "too much" I may have trouble utilizing or absorbing iodine. How would I know?

And the iodine seems to keep me up at night.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Where do i find an iodine friendly doc?I tried the links provided but didn't seem to work
did you try this link? This is the one I have on 1st page for practitioners
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ipractitioners.html

There is also another page here but I don't know if it's the same ppl or not:
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com...titioners.html

If there is any other link not working, please lmk.
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