thyroid issues in young children - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-26-2009, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm becoming rather convinced that both of my DD's have thyroid issues. I'm taking them to the Dr next week to see about getting them tested. I'm just wondering about symptoms esp for subclinical hypothyroidism in young children

My older DD is 5 and we are going through ADHD testing with her now. I'm actually wondering if it is her thyroid instead.

My ydd has some motility issues and is seeing a GI.

What they do not have is poor growth or mental impairment. But lots of the less worrying symptoms, esp my ydd. Dry hair, sparse eyebrows, puffy eyes, slow digestion, difficulty sleeping and yet they both seem to always be tired. ODD is complaining of muscle aches. She's always complaining of being too tired. She seems to be foggy headed at times. She gets confused easily and distracted even when she claims to be trying to do what she is supposed to.

Is is possible for them to have hypothyroidism w/o those growth/cognitive issues?

Thanks for any input.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-26-2009, 06:48 PM
 
mom61508's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can't wait to hear the experts on this one
mom61508 is offline  
Old 07-26-2009, 07:09 PM
 
deditus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In the LandOLakes missin the mitten
Posts: 2,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
YES! My dd's ped gi tested her TSH last December and it was 3.2! Within range as far as they were concerned, but disturbing to me. I am trusting that this has improved, though due to correcting nutrient deficiencies (hers and mine!). She did have severe gi symptoms that caused weight loss and malabsorption so that is why I suspect "only" nutrient deficiencies to be the cause of her high TSH.

Emily, cooking allergen free, knitting, reading, gardening Mom to 1 beautiful girl, born in the water on July 1, 2006 Wife to 1 handsome man since September 10, 2005
deditus is offline  
Old 07-26-2009, 08:16 PM
 
WuWei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the moment
Posts: 11,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What about mercury and other heavy metals?


Pat

I have a blog.
WuWei is offline  
Old 07-26-2009, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pat- both of my girls have mercury that we are working on.
I'm wanting a crutch to help us to survive till their little bodies are healed if there is one.

YDD can't tolerate coconut (oil or other). ODD won't eat it straight and I can't hide it in much when ydd and I can't have it.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-26-2009, 09:57 PM
 
mommyjamieof2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.eatingcultures.com/tikiwi...page=digestion

Also look at low and high histmines I don't know enough yet to try and explain it but I think that my 6 year old may have to high histimines and I believe this has run in the males in his dad's side of the family.
http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_20...er_coaster.htm
mommyjamieof2 is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyjamieof2 View Post
http://www.eatingcultures.com/tikiwi...page=digestion

Also look at low and high histmines I don't know enough yet to try and explain it but I think that my 6 year old may have to high histimines and I believe this has run in the males in his dad's side of the family.
http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_20...er_coaster.htm
I read through that histamines thing and it doesn't seem to really fit either high or low. Thanks for sharing though.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deditus View Post
YES! My dd's ped gi tested her TSH last December and it was 3.2! Within range as far as they were concerned, but disturbing to me. I am trusting that this has improved, though due to correcting nutrient deficiencies (hers and mine!). She did have severe gi symptoms that caused weight loss and malabsorption so that is why I suspect "only" nutrient deficiencies to be the cause of her high TSH.
How old is she?
I'm wondering why this didn't come up with my DD's GI

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 12:50 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla View Post
Pat- both of my girls have mercury that we are working on.
I'm wanting a crutch to help us to survive till their little bodies are healed if there is one.

YDD can't tolerate coconut (oil or other). ODD won't eat it straight and I can't hide it in much when ydd and I can't have it.
I used supplemental nutrients as my crutch for myself. Do you have a HCP you're working with on the mercury? Getting tested by your normal doc (who I assume isn't one you're working with for the metals) and doing Synthroid or Armour or whatever is a very reasonable path. But if that doesn't pan out, and if you can't find a HCP who's helpful, you could probably modify the normal vit/min supps that are appropriate for mercury to have a bit extra of the thyroid vitamins and minerals. Now, I've not done that for a kid, which obviously has extra problems, and I'd at least think about basic lifestyle adrenal support (since stressed adrenals seem to go hand-in-hand with hypo and hyper thyroid), but it seems better than doing nothing, to me.

By lifestyle stuff, I'm thinking early, regular, high-protein breakfasts, protein-containing snacks, a regular routine to the day, plenty of sleep, all that stress-lowering stuff. I don't know anything about adrenal support for kids beyond that.
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes we have a Dr who our Dr recomended that is working on the metals.
Our family Dr is generally pretty good/alternative and is locally famous for being good with thyroid issues.

We're also working with a nutritionist because of all the food issues my girls have. She's also a WAP leader, does TCM and NAET. I'm feeling fantastic under her care. My girls are more complex though.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 01:52 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'd probably talk to the metals doc then, thyroid problems seem not uncommon in kids with metals issues, at least based on the yahoo groups I'm part of. The same nutrients that we've depleted trying to excrete the metals are the ones our thyroids need to make hormone. Your doc may already have some experience with this.

Yay for helpful healthcare providers! :
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 02:42 AM
 
JaneS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you taken their body temps? That should tell you pretty easily.

TSH of over 3 is high:

Quote:
Changing the Normal Values for the TSH Test:

On November 2002, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists changed the normal TSH values. Previous normal bounds were 0.5 to 5.0, and these were changed to 0.3 to 3.04. The National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry, wants to change them again and says "In the future, the upper limit of the serum TSH reference range will be reduced to 2.5 mIU/L

"A serum TSH result between 0.5 and 2.0 mIU/L is generally considered the therapeutic target for a standard L-T4 (thyroid hormone) replacement dose for primary hypothyroidism."
JaneS is offline  
Old 07-27-2009, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My oldest has a Dr's appointment tomorrow. I'm going to request a blood test for her and look to get her on meds if she tests hypo. The nutritionist we saw today said that her thyroid is weak. (tested energeticlly.) I could do the temp test but I doubt that will convince my Dr to put her on meds. I'm not happy about the blood test but having a crutch if it works as well as armour works for me would be great. She has suffered and struggled so much in her short life. I need to see if I can make this easier for her.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-29-2009, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I hate blood draws.
We went ahead and did a bunch of tests as long as we were at it. All the thyroid tests (tsh, Free T3 Free T4 antibodies) plus folate, iron, vitamin D, cbc, lead (I live in a 100 year old house), I don't even remember what all else. It sucked. 6 vials of blood and after 4 her veins just stopped so we had to stick her again on the other arm. She does great until the moment of truth and then totally freaks out. I was very glad I waited till I could take her by myself.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 07-29-2009, 02:24 PM
 
mom61508's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla View Post
I hate blood draws.
We went ahead and did a bunch of tests as long as we were at it. All the thyroid tests (tsh, Free T3 Free T4 antibodies) plus folate, iron, vitamin D, cbc, lead (I live in a 100 year old house), I don't even remember what all else. It sucked. 6 vials of blood and after 4 her veins just stopped so we had to stick her again on the other arm. She does great until the moment of truth and then totally freaks out. I was very glad I waited till I could take her by myself.
Bless her heart
mom61508 is offline  
Old 08-01-2009, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well I'm glad I trusted my instincts this time and insisted we finish the bloodwork. Her TSH was 3.18 which was in range and my Dr said kids can run high but her free T3 was low. So she's on 30 mg armour.
She also has a virus and he wanted me to wait till she was better to start the hrt but I struggle to see the logic in that for this particular type of med. Anyone want to weigh in on that?

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 08-01-2009, 12:34 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
For people in hospitals, thyroid function can appear depressed, I think it's part of a downregulation of everything while they're convalescing. And starting a med is a bit of a stress, even though it's in a good direction. I could make arguments the other way, having an appropriate amount of thyroid hormone when you're sick may help you heal better/faster, and I really don't know which one is the more valid argument.

I'm so glad you've got a doc who looks at all the numbers and the patient!
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 08-01-2009, 12:14 PM
 
mom61508's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm Curious
Instead of armour what about something like Dr. Ron's thyroid supp?
I know nothing about how it works but am curious If that would help heal the thyroid better/faster than armour or nature throid?
mom61508 is offline  
Old 08-01-2009, 04:06 PM
 
leafwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 2,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As for starting the hrt, my endo has always redrawn my levels if i was sick or my blood work indicated i was getting sick. however, i have hashimoto's which is an autoimmune thyroid condition so the thought is that any illness or stressor can influence my levels.

do you know if they checked your dd for thyroid antibodies?

Happy Mommy to one amazing girl (6y) and one sweet boy (2y), and wife to DH since 7/03 : :
leafwood is offline  
Old 08-01-2009, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
She did get her antibodies tested and one was less than 20 and the other less than 10. Both are normal.
I have started giving her something called metabolic advantage. It really helps me esp in combo w/hrt. (I started it before I was put on meds)

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 12:32 PM
 
JaneS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dr. Dommisse's article in current Wise Traditions was very enlightening as to the 4 different kinds of thyroid malfunction. Optimizing free T3 and free T4 is just as important as looking at the TSH.

In fact, a low TSH does *not necessarily* mean your thyroid is normal b/c you can also have a problem where the pituitary doesn't excrete enough TSH. That is why the free T3/T4 is so important. And he recommends the tracer dialysis method of blood testing as the most accurate, it is widely available and covered by ins. but not usually employed. And also several mainstream organization would put the upper limit of TSH at 2.5.

Looking at why someone doesn't convert enough T4 to enough T3 in body cells might give you some clues as to what is going on on a deeper level too. I remember reading some reasons why but I promptly forgot.
JaneS is offline  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:38 PM
 
vbactivist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla View Post
I hate blood draws.
We went ahead and did a bunch of tests as long as we were at it. All the thyroid tests (tsh, Free T3 Free T4 antibodies) plus folate, iron, vitamin D, cbc, lead (I live in a 100 year old house), I don't even remember what all else. It sucked. 6 vials of blood and after 4 her veins just stopped so we had to stick her again on the other arm. She does great until the moment of truth and then totally freaks out. I was very glad I waited till I could take her by myself.

My daughter was born without a thyroid, and has needed blood draws every 2-6 weeks her entire 21 months (so far!).

One thing that helps with bllod draws is the prescription numbing cream, EMLA. Ask your doctor to call it in. Apply it liberallyl to both arms and cover with a band aid about 40 minutes before draw. Also, when you get to the lab or docs office, ask for a heating pak to put on the draw site while you wait to be called - the warmness makes it easier. I also pump my daughter full of liquids the night beofre and teh morning of - makes getting a vein much easier. Like sips of water every 30 seconds or so...

and when they are putting the rubberband thing around her arm, I make sure they do it over the fabric of her sleeve, so it doesn't pinch her skin.

I hate blood draws, too
vbactivist is offline  
Old 08-10-2009, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
vbactivist- Thank you so much for your tips! I'm going to follow them with DD#2. She goes to the Dr on Tues and I'm hoping to get orders for her thyroid test as well. She is very hard to push fluids on but I'll try. That was one big mistake I recognized with my older DD at the time. I hadn't pushed fluids on her nearly enough. I'll ask about that cream.

Jane- selenium and zink are biggies with T4 to T3 conversion. Both are chronically low in DD#1 despite aggressive supplementation of them. Any ideas on why that might be? Thankfully her Vitamin D was good (65 iirc)

Anyone have any thoughts on my Dr's statement that kids should have low iron (DD's was at the bottom of the normal range) and that a higher TSH for kids is also normal. So much thyroid info is written for adults or young kids with congenital hypothyroidism. Not whatever is going on with my kids.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 08-10-2009, 12:57 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Patty, ASD yahoo groups would know about where kids should be with thyroid labs. The autism-mercury yahoo group and the vitamin k yahoo group are the two I'm familiar with but I'm sure there are more out there.

re: zinc, for my kids, mercury's the issue, and conventional wisdom, and my experience, say that correcting zinc takes long-term supplementation. I'm assuming that between the possibility of gut issues/poor absorption and moreso needing to make glutathione to get rid of the metals, it's just a slow process to actually get up to a good level. For my kids, I'm guessing it's getting used up as fast as I supply it. I've read that OptiZinc is a very good product, haven't decided if I should switch or just stick with what I've got--I can't tell if my results are as good as I can reasonably expect, or I should shoot for better.
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 08-10-2009, 03:40 PM
 
JaneS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mercury also eats up selenium... what kind of supplements are you using? The type of selenium also makes a difference.

Zinc chelated to amino acids or picolinate are the better absorbed versions, zinc sulfate the worst.
JaneS is offline  
Old 08-14-2009, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
vbactivist- Thank you for mentioning the EMLA cream! I got a script for it and used it on my 18 month old today before her blood draw. She just watched in curiosity while it was all happening but never seemed to feel a thing. Her big sister at first insisted she wouldn't ever use that cream for her blood draws (change bad!) but after observing her little sister she is now very excited to get to use it next time.

My toddler did have a horrible afternoon after having a terrific morning and not seeming traumatized at all by the blood draw. Any chance that the EMLA cream was to blame? Both girls have been a bit off since we returned from vacation a few days ago so I'm not sure what to think.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
Old 08-14-2009, 01:13 AM
 
tanyalynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TX, but anticipating one more move
Posts: 11,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I just ran across my old post that's a summary from Cutler's book, it discusses _why_ we need so darn much zinc.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...c#post13500767

It's sad that I typed all that but forgot half til I went back to re-read. Need more sleep.
tanyalynn is offline  
Old 08-14-2009, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
Pattyla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Jane- She was getting 200 mcg of selenium daily in her multi. (l-selenomethonine) She has switched to a different multi. The zinc was chelated to rice protein. Now she is getting selenium picolinate and zinc picolinate. I've also started giving her a couple of brazil nuts daily when I remember.

The hardest thing to give her is vitamin C. I'm afraid to give her too much and run into trouble when we are out and about and she balks at swallowing too many pills. I got a chewable one for her recently but don't really like giving it because of the risk to her teeth. I've got SA and at times she loves it and begs for it but other times it is a really hard sell.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
our family is <>< and :
Pattyla is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off