Weak adrenals/high androgens/carb sensitivity - help. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 21 Old 10-22-2009, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My last post in the adrenal fatigue thread includes the results of a male hormone panel I had a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...postcount=2273

For a little over the past year I've been experiencing what I think is an insulin response to blood sugar spikes from carby/sugary foods. But today I ate really low carb & experienced the same feeling immediately after eating only chicken, broccoli & cucumber. I felt fine after my steak over salad for breakfast.

So now with this super-high androgen level, my anxiety is creeping back in - something I haven't experienced in so long since I've been working on healing my adrenals. I'm afraid of a PCOS diagnosis mainly because of the IR relationship.

This is a sensitive subject for me since my Dad became insulin dependant last year & then had two heart attacks, multi-system organ failure & bypass surgery.

I know a lot can be done with diet & I follow a TF, no grain diet (not entirely true, I occasionally eat rice and corn.) I can't eat rice outside the home because it messes me up, but if I cook it at home, even jasmine rice, in bone broth with loads of raw butter, I don't notice any blood sugar response.

I *think* that I notice this sensitivity to carbs more when my adrenal symptoms are worse - like BP issues including dizziness upon standing.

I really, REALLY hope that this is something I can overcome by healing my adrenals & being REALLY careful with carb intake.

I'm rereading Bernstein's diabetes book at the moment. I'm trying to follow his guidelines for low carbing, which I don't think is a problem for me, but spacing my food inatke by at least 4 hours is tough. I'm a snacker. I have hypoglycemia issues because of the adrenal fatigue & need to make sure I get protein frequently enough.

Anyone have any comforting words or words of advice?

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#2 of 21 Old 10-22-2009, 10:49 PM
 
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Well, I have good news and bad news. I completely reversed ALL of my symptoms of PCOS and actually no longer meet criteria for the disease through a strict adherence to a diet that includes no refined sugars and no processed grains. I do eat a slice of Ezekial bread sometimes, or a bowl of steelcut oatmeal prepared the TF way (soaked overnight with whey, served with some real cream on top, etc.) and I tolerate small amounts of THIS kind of grain extremely well (maybe 1 serving a day, sometimes less). I do not have blood sugar issues at all (anymore). I get loads of fiber and vitamins (and of course carbs) from fruits, veggies, and legumes. I eat all fruits and veggies with very few exceptions: no tropical fruits (citrus (except for lemon as garnish), bananas, mango, papaya, pineapple), no potato insides (I do love potato skins and when I make baked potatoes for my family, my husband eats the inside and I eat his skins), and fresh (or frozen) corn only occasionally - when corn on the cob is in season I enjoy it 2x/week or so but after that I only have frozen corn 1-2x/month.

As I have posted before, the only symptom I have anymore of PCOS is unfortunately some of the darker chin hairs that came out during my twin pregnancy (thanks to hormones gone haywire from 2 placentas) and I've read that once they're there, they don't go back to blond. So I do laser hair removal because I'm sick of plucking. But no new ones.

So what's the bad news? The bad news is that if - due to traveling or holidays or being a guest in someone's house where I just can't possibly refuse and be even remotely polite (or all of the above) I do not strictly follow my diet it takes my body about 2 days to go back to the old way. Craving sugar, mood swings, highs and lows of energy, etc. Once late last winter I was so sick and tired of mealy local apples and raspberries from California that I bought a big box of (non-organic of course) clementines. Soooo good. I ate a dozen of those things in one day, no lie. Well, the next day I was really craving sweets and I had a couple of bananas out of the fruit bowl. Then it kind of went downhill from there until I realized, holy crap, I'm in the middle of a total sugar binge. Anyway, I'm kind of coming to terms with the fact that I'm going to need to do without ice cream, cake, pie, cookies, and even oranges and bananas for the rest of my life. Or at least if I do have some pie at Thanksgiving, I better brace myself for the next day and just be really aware that that day I am going to be craving more sweets and really work through that and deal with that head on, not assume I can eat like that and just go about my life. I wish.
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#3 of 21 Old 10-22-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that I'm somewhat in the same boat. I did my first saliva hormone panel 2 1/2 months ago with Genova and my testosterone was high, off the charts. My Dr. is retesting this week and going to retest blood as well. She thinks for it to have been that high I must have been exposed to some androgel from one of the guys at the gym, on the weight machines. We'll see what the new tests say- I've been too scared to go to the gym since then!

I also read the things about PCOS and adrenal or ovarian tumors and adrenal hyperplasia and have been trying to stay calm. I figure if it comes back high again I'll go to a gynecologist or whoever is appropriate and get an ovarian ultrasound, etc. to rule out tumors. My period has been coming early the past few months so I know something is off. If it's from the gel, I'm P-O'd because I had to pay for bioidentical progesterone capsules to take the last half of my cycle and because of the worry it's caused.

Finally-sorry so long- my father has diabetes and I worry about blood sugar as well. I get hypogycemic too, especially before I was on the low dose hydrocortisone for my adrenals. I'd be shaking by 10:30 or 11. I can wait until 11:30 to eat now. I have read a lot about the low carb diabetes Dr. but I still eat a bit of rice and occasional corn tortillas or a bit of potatoes- I never feel full without a bit of carbs. I did give up the gluten 2 months ago and my perpetually puffy belly went away- yay. I just need these hormones to balance out.

I'm still taking pregnenolone 30 mg in the mornings. I've read that it could possibly convert to testosterone. Are you still on the preg? Could it convert to andro...tone (sp?) too? I have the hormone cascade bookmarked somewhere... I've never had that tested though....

Good luck! I'll be checking back to get some info for myself as well. take care...
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Im deal ing similar issues and I can not touch fruit, ever. I also can't have potatoes, corn, etc. Occasionally I will eat a tiny ammount of quinoa. I will say that you will feel like crap for about a week after you stop the sugars and carbs. I get the shakes and feel crazy for about 3 days after no sugar. I would look into bio-identical hormones. I am take one called ACE I get from my NMD it makes the diffrence between me being in bed all day or being functional.
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#5 of 21 Old 10-23-2009, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Well, I have good news and bad news. I completely reversed ALL of my symptoms of PCOS and actually no longer meet criteria for the disease through a strict adherence to a diet that includes no refined sugars and no processed grains. I do eat a slice of Ezekial bread sometimes, or a bowl of steelcut oatmeal prepared the TF way (soaked overnight with whey, served with some real cream on top, etc.) and I tolerate small amounts of THIS kind of grain extremely well (maybe 1 serving a day, sometimes less). I do not have blood sugar issues at all (anymore). I get loads of fiber and vitamins (and of course carbs) from fruits, veggies, and legumes. I eat all fruits and veggies with very few exceptions: no tropical fruits (citrus (except for lemon as garnish), bananas, mango, papaya, pineapple), no potato insides (I do love potato skins and when I make baked potatoes for my family, my husband eats the inside and I eat his skins), and fresh (or frozen) corn only occasionally - when corn on the cob is in season I enjoy it 2x/week or so but after that I only have frozen corn 1-2x/month.

As I have posted before, the only symptom I have anymore of PCOS is unfortunately some of the darker chin hairs that came out during my twin pregnancy (thanks to hormones gone haywire from 2 placentas) and I've read that once they're there, they don't go back to blond. So I do laser hair removal because I'm sick of plucking. But no new ones.

So what's the bad news? The bad news is that if - due to traveling or holidays or being a guest in someone's house where I just can't possibly refuse and be even remotely polite (or all of the above) I do not strictly follow my diet it takes my body about 2 days to go back to the old way. Craving sugar, mood swings, highs and lows of energy, etc. Once late last winter I was so sick and tired of mealy local apples and raspberries from California that I bought a big box of (non-organic of course) clementines. Soooo good. I ate a dozen of those things in one day, no lie. Well, the next day I was really craving sweets and I had a couple of bananas out of the fruit bowl. Then it kind of went downhill from there until I realized, holy crap, I'm in the middle of a total sugar binge. Anyway, I'm kind of coming to terms with the fact that I'm going to need to do without ice cream, cake, pie, cookies, and even oranges and bananas for the rest of my life. Or at least if I do have some pie at Thanksgiving, I better brace myself for the next day and just be really aware that that day I am going to be craving more sweets and really work through that and deal with that head on, not assume I can eat like that and just go about my life. I wish.
No, this is all good news to me! (except that chin hairs never go away, lol.)

I'm not a big fruit person anyway & I've been so low grain now for so long, it doesn't matter. Bernstein says zero fruits & zero grains & I'm with him on this - but what about berries (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, etc.)? Those are okay in yeast-free//sugar-free diets, so I wonder if they're okay on a diabetic diet? I mean, a little cream drizzled over fresh berries is a little slice of heaven on earth, yk?

Actually, a super-duper MDC mama helped me a lot last year when my dad's health was failing. She has a type 1 diabetic son & she told me what "treats" he could eat with little to no change in blood sugar. The stuff I crave is usually something like a coconut muffin. I *think* I could make these with stevia (tho I really don't like stevia..) but maybe it would just be easier to not have anything like that.

I've stocked up on various animal proteins - I now have a freezer full of beef, goat, venison, chicken & scrapple - we looove scrapple. It does have buckwheat in it though...and I like it with a drizzle of maple syrup, shucks. I guess I can see what happens when I eat it. I seem to do better with my morning meal - like I don't notice a blood sugar response. I can't eat anything like oatmeal because it messes me up for the whole day. I need animal protein at every meal.

Thanks K.!

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#6 of 21 Old 10-23-2009, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wanted to say that I'm somewhat in the same boat. I did my first saliva hormone panel 2 1/2 months ago with Genova and my testosterone was high, off the charts. My Dr. is retesting this week and going to retest blood as well. She thinks for it to have been that high I must have been exposed to some androgel from one of the guys at the gym, on the weight machines. We'll see what the new tests say- I've been too scared to go to the gym since then!

I also read the things about PCOS and adrenal or ovarian tumors and adrenal hyperplasia and have been trying to stay calm. I figure if it comes back high again I'll go to a gynecologist or whoever is appropriate and get an ovarian ultrasound, etc. to rule out tumors. My period has been coming early the past few months so I know something is off. If it's from the gel, I'm P-O'd because I had to pay for bioidentical progesterone capsules to take the last half of my cycle and because of the worry it's caused.

Finally-sorry so long- my father has diabetes and I worry about blood sugar as well. I get hypogycemic too, especially before I was on the low dose hydrocortisone for my adrenals. I'd be shaking by 10:30 or 11. I can wait until 11:30 to eat now. I have read a lot about the low carb diabetes Dr. but I still eat a bit of rice and occasional corn tortillas or a bit of potatoes- I never feel full without a bit of carbs. I did give up the gluten 2 months ago and my perpetually puffy belly went away- yay. I just need these hormones to balance out.

I'm still taking pregnenolone 30 mg in the mornings. I've read that it could possibly convert to testosterone. Are you still on the preg? Could it convert to andro...tone (sp?) too? I have the hormone cascade bookmarked somewhere... I've never had that tested though....

Good luck! I'll be checking back to get some info for myself as well. take care...
That's creepy about the androgel! Do you have any symptoms of high testosterone? I go to the gym at least 3-4 times/week too & lift weights but I've had symptoms of higher than normal androgens for my whole adult life, so I think my test was probably spot on.
I'm confused because my testosterone wasn't high..so I don't know what the heck is happening with my androstenedione.

Dr. Lam says to take progesterone for PCOS - he seems to say to take progesterone for everything, IIRC. I've mentioned this to my ND before & he thinks it's a bandaid, not fixing the root of teh problem - adrenals. (not for PCOS, but just for low progesterone in general.)

The pregnenolone has me wondering too. I have previously stopped taking it because I wondered if it had caused the increase in my chin hairs. I didn't notice a difference while off of it though. What really bugs me now though is that I had my cycles down to every 31 days, like clockwork & then I restarted the pregnenolone this month & I didn't get my period until the evening of CD 36. I've also noticed an increase in anxiety which might be related to my test results but I've also noticed an increase in blood sugar symptoms. The sad thing is, my brain fog is SO much better on pregnenolone. I can type a hundred times faster & actually form the words I'm trying to find, yk? I'm going to ask my ND about a possible connection.

I want to find out what is going on here, why my androstenedione is high but not my testosterone.

Did you look at the adrenal fatigue thread? Bluets responded to my results & she had a VERY informative post. I think I might even print it out to take to my ND.

Homeschoolin' Mama chicken3.gifto Dd1 2/3/00, Dd2 1/13/03, Ds1 3/11/06 & Ds2 11/18/10!!
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#7 of 21 Old 10-23-2009, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Im deal ing similar issues and I can not touch fruit, ever. I also can't have potatoes, corn, etc. Occasionally I will eat a tiny ammount of quinoa. I will say that you will feel like crap for about a week after you stop the sugars and carbs. I get the shakes and feel crazy for about 3 days after no sugar. I would look into bio-identical hormones. I am take one called ACE I get from my NMD it makes the diffrence between me being in bed all day or being functional.
I have ACE as well - the sublingual drops. They're really expensive & I admit, I haven't been taking them. I think I'll start today. I didn't notice a difference when I was taking it before. I don't have the fatigue that most adrenal patients have - kind of weird. My saliva results would have you think that I was unable to move, but this has never been a problem for me. But clearly, my adrenals are wrecked. I was hoping my DHEA would be higher, but it's back down to 1.

I'm okay with no fruit, I'm not really a big fan. I do love apple season though & like to bake apples with some pecans & pumpkin seeds & coconut oil...

I wonder if I'll get the icky feelings? We don't eat sugar (occasionally some raw honey or maple syrup, maybe a couple of times a week - which I know is the same as sugar...)

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#8 of 21 Old 10-23-2009, 11:36 AM
 
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I have Addison's and I react to carby foods if I haven't taken enough cortisol (I take bio-identical replacement daily) As long as my adrenals are supported I have no problem with these foods - I eat really well though for the most part.
I didn't do well on pregnenolone - or deha even though I tested low. Iactually do really well on a bit of progesterone cream (tested LOW in prog & estr- and the cream helps both) Also, progesterone can convert to cortisol if needed.
I LOVE ACE drops - they are expensive though. I use them to stress dose sometimes.
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I'm using and ACE in capsule form, but your right they are very expensive. I take two capsules a day at $2 a pop! Its the only way I can function though.

Can someone tell me if perifiral neropathy is part of this? I have just been diagnosed with this and I have numbness in my face, neck and upper back and toung.
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#10 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 09:38 PM
 
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I'll see what my results are having avoided the gym for a couple months. When I did go I wiped down the handles with isopropy alcohol (my dr. said this is the only thing that will reliably break down the gels). She's testing both saliva and blood. I've never gotten them tested before, so who knows. The oral progesterone seems to be lengthening my cycles, but I don't want to stay on it long term if possible. I would like to get off the preg. too but when I stop, after a few weeks my brain fog returns as well- I can't think of certain words! My cholesterol is rather low so I probably am not making quite enough preg. on my own...

Off to check the old adrenal fatigue thread for bluets post. thanks!

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That's creepy about the androgel! Do you have any symptoms of high testosterone? I go to the gym at least 3-4 times/week too & lift weights but I've had symptoms of higher than normal androgens for my whole adult life, so I think my test was probably spot on.
I'm confused because my testosterone wasn't high..so I don't know what the heck is happening with my androstenedione.

Dr. Lam says to take progesterone for PCOS - he seems to say to take progesterone for everything, IIRC. I've mentioned this to my ND before & he thinks it's a bandaid, not fixing the root of teh problem - adrenals. (not for PCOS, but just for low progesterone in general.)

The pregnenolone has me wondering too. I have previously stopped taking it because I wondered if it had caused the increase in my chin hairs. I didn't notice a difference while off of it though. What really bugs me now though is that I had my cycles down to every 31 days, like clockwork & then I restarted the pregnenolone this month & I didn't get my period until the evening of CD 36. I've also noticed an increase in anxiety which might be related to my test results but I've also noticed an increase in blood sugar symptoms. The sad thing is, my brain fog is SO much better on pregnenolone. I can type a hundred times faster & actually form the words I'm trying to find, yk? I'm going to ask my ND about a possible connection.

I want to find out what is going on here, why my androstenedione is high but not my testosterone.

Did you look at the adrenal fatigue thread? Bluets responded to my results & she had a VERY informative post. I think I might even print it out to take to my ND.
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#11 of 21 Old 10-24-2009, 09:40 PM
 
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oh, and I didn't really notice any symptoms of high test., just that my period came on day 20 (!) instead of the usual 26-27, so I knew something was off. I didn't get a period for a couple years with each child from nursing, but the periods I did have between them and in the past year were about 26-27 days.
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#12 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Isn't s short cycle a sign of estrogen-dominance? I *think* that's when progesterone can be helpful - not sure though.

Do you have Tom Cowan's Fourfold Path to Healing? It's a great book & he has a chapter on female stuff which focuses on optimal health equaling regular 28 day cycles & how to get them there. He also has chapters on adrenal healing, CFS & thyroid. Good book.

I'll remember that about the alcohol wipes.

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#13 of 21 Old 10-25-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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Isn't s short cycle a sign of estrogen-dominance? I *think* that's when progesterone can be helpful - not sure though.

Do you have Tom Cowan's Fourfold Path to Healing? It's a great book & he has a chapter on female stuff which focuses on optimal health equaling regular 28 day cycles & how to get them there. He also has chapters on adrenal healing, CFS & thyroid. Good book.

I'll remember that about the alcohol wipes.
Second this recommendation. Fourfold Path to Healing is a wonderful book. I read the book, the Core Balance Diet by Marcelle Pick and have since been keeping up with her advice at Women to Women dot com. There's tons there for AF and insulin/PCOS, etc. I think this article might have something in it for you -- Eating to support your adrenal glands — small choices can make a difference Read the whole thing or just scroll about halfway down to a chart showing you the best times of day to eat in order to keep blood glucose in check and balance cortisol levels. This approach has really helped with my energy levels.

Good luck!!!! I've been there.
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#14 of 21 Old 10-30-2009, 10:09 AM
 
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I've thought about getting the Fourfold Path to Healing. I should just go for it!

Yeah, I had saliva test for all my hormones 3 months ago and that's when we found the testosterone 10X higher than the high number which led her to believe it was from creams (that will happen to P with progesterone creams too). My DHEA was near the top of the range when I had saliva tests for cortisol two years ago so I'm starting to wonder if I have PCOS... I'll let y'all know what my latest tests are in a few weeks after my appt. My estrogen and progesterone are both a bit low according to my doc, but my P is lower, so yes, my ratio is definitely pointing to estrogen dominance. I guess that's why my cycle was shorter. You know, I was on BCP all though my 20's so I don't even know if I would have had normal cycles back then or not.

My hypoglycemia is SO much better after starting low dose hydrocortisone that I don't know if it's something I can do without although I'd definitely like to wean in the future. I could barely cook lunch and take a shower all day two years ago as far as physical activity. And I'd be shaking by 10:30/11 am. Fun times, but I digress.
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#15 of 21 Old 10-30-2009, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've thought about getting the Fourfold Path to Healing. I should just go for it!

Yeah, I had saliva test for all my hormones 3 months ago and that's when we found the testosterone 10X higher than the high number which led her to believe it was from creams (that will happen to P with progesterone creams too). My DHEA was near the top of the range when I had saliva tests for cortisol two years ago so I'm starting to wonder if I have PCOS... I'll let y'all know what my latest tests are in a few weeks after my appt. My estrogen and progesterone are both a bit low according to my doc, but my P is lower, so yes, my ratio is definitely pointing to estrogen dominance. I guess that's why my cycle was shorter. You know, I was on BCP all though my 20's so I don't even know if I would have had normal cycles back then or not.

My hypoglycemia is SO much better after starting low dose hydrocortisone that I don't know if it's something I can do without although I'd definitely like to wean in the future. I could barely cook lunch and take a shower all day two years ago as far as physical activity. And I'd be shaking by 10:30/11 am. Fun times, but I digress.
Sort of sounds like PCOS. Two thoughts - holistically, PCOS is treated by diet - greatly reducing carbs/sugar. High insulin (from eating sugar/carbs) causes increased androgen production, increased androgens cause increased insulin leading to insulin resistance. The only way to truly break this cycle is by not fueling the fire with sugar/carbs.
Secondly, hypoglycemia also responds well to reducing carbs/sugar. I know that the conventional medical establishment has us believing that we need to eat more meals throughout the day to keep our blood sugar UP, but we need to do the opposite.

I've cut down to 3 meals a day - no snacking. I'm trying to stay under 60g/carbs/day, even less if I can. All I'm eating is meat, non-starchy veggies & fat, usually in the form of raw butter slathered on everything. Guess what? My hypoglycemic feelings are disappearing! And I've only been eating this strictly for a week! I can go hours without eating & I no longer get shaky, irritable, lightheaded. Our bodies really need at least 4 hours between meals to allow our insulin production a break from blood sugar spikes.
After sticking to this type of diet, we can heal & eventually we wont be so sensitive to carbs.

I found an awesome new book called Primal Body, Primal Mind. I'm in love.

Anyway, I had my appt on Wednesday. My ND wants me to take massive amounts of B5 to try to push this high level of androstenedione through. My testosterone, DHEA & DHT aren't high, so for some reason, the andros is just stuck there. My progesterone is a bit low & my DHEA is almost non-existent.
The B5 he wants me to take is called Pantethine Plus by Village Green. It has 340 mg of pantothenic acid & 150mg pantethine in each tablet & he wants me to take 3 tablets a day.

I also started taking saw palmetto. I'm taking 4 capsules in the morning & 4 at night which gives me 4.4g of saw palmetto berries which is equivalent to 320mg/day of liposterolic acid (the desired part of saw palmetto.) This is to reduce the androgens. It should take 4-6 weeks to see a difference. You should look into this,

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#16 of 21 Old 10-31-2009, 05:11 PM
 
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I've been really working on lowering my carbs too, but I start to crave them more in the fall and winter (rice, potatoes, popcorn...) Interesting that just you're DHT is high. I wonder if it's lack of a certain enzyme that it builds up there? I'm going to ask about saw palmetto at my appt. in a few weeks if my results are still high, or if it was just a transient high from exposure to gels on the gym equipment... Keep us posted on your progress!
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#17 of 21 Old 11-01-2009, 01:37 AM
 
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Wow I've been hit hard this month by the hypo/carb thing. It's been oncoming for a year now and it seems to have finally hit the fan.

What is the title of the Bernstein book? I am going to get that Primal Body, Primal Mind book.

I just ran into a Paleo dieter today as I stumbled across this book - Going Against the Grain: How Reducing and Avoiding Grains Can Revitalize Your Health by Melissa Smith. She started talking to me about carbs and recommended I read up on the Paleo diet considering the issues I have.

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#18 of 21 Old 11-01-2009, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting that just you're DHT is high.
My DHT *ISN'T* high, that's what's weird. Neither is my testosterone - just my androstenedione which is like 100 times LESS potent than testosterone or DHT. My estrogen is low too - so my androstenedione is just sitting there, all high, not dumping into any pathway...

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Originally Posted by Kino View Post
Wow I've been hit hard this month by the hypo/carb thing. It's been oncoming for a year now and it seems to have finally hit the fan.

What is the title of the Bernstein book? I am going to get that Primal Body, Primal Mind book.

I just ran into a Paleo dieter today as I stumbled across this book - Going Against the Grain: How Reducing and Avoiding Grains Can Revitalize Your Health by Melissa Smith. She started talking to me about carbs and recommended I read up on the Paleo diet considering the issues I have.
The Diabetes Solution. Bernstein gets more technical with glucose monitoring & numbers. His diet advice is pretty good, at least his thoughts on eating only meats & veggies. He has some ideas for sweet fixes & says Splenda is okay. If we could just TF him...

Primal Body, Primal Mind is more up my alley as far as lifestyle. I just nod along saying "exactly!"

I have a couple of Paleo sites bookmarked. I was skimming though a book at Borders the other evening - something like Paleo for Athletes of something & I though it would be really cool, but the author was totally against saturated fats! But dried fruit was okay.

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#19 of 21 Old 11-01-2009, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.paleofood.com/

http://cavemanfood.blogspot.com/

I thought I had another one...I know there are many, many more.

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#20 of 21 Old 11-02-2009, 03:20 PM
 
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Primal Body Primal Mind sounds great- I'm going to see if they have it on interlibrary loan. I found on her website at http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/about.html that she has an internet radio show at voiceamerica.com on Wednesdays. I've gone to the archive and started downloading mp3's to listen to as I fall asleep. I can't wait for tonight!
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#21 of 21 Old 11-02-2009, 03:22 PM
 
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Wow! I just saw an episode on thyroid and adrenals at http://www.modavox.com/voiceamerica/...aspx?aid=39870 - off to download. Maybe I should post this on the adrenal fatigue thread.
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