REAL folate is much better than folic acid - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 126 Old 01-19-2010, 01:04 PM
 
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Well, I am confused.. I take this brand http://www.appleadayandbeyond.com/es...cfm?p=431&c=69

which lists folic acid, but then at the bottom it talks about organic kale and spinach juice, so wouldn't that actually be folate instead?
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#62 of 126 Old 01-19-2010, 05:17 PM
 
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Well, I am confused.. I take this brand http://www.appleadayandbeyond.com/es...cfm?p=431&c=69

which lists folic acid, but then at the bottom it talks about organic kale and spinach juice, so wouldn't that actually be folate instead?
The two terms get used interchangeably a LOT, so I'd contact the company and find out for sure.

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#63 of 126 Old 01-19-2010, 05:53 PM
 
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The two terms get used interchangeably a LOT, so I'd contact the company and find out for sure.
If you do contact them, please let us know what they say.
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#64 of 126 Old 01-20-2010, 01:57 AM
 
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ok somewhat hypothetical question here...

What if a mom unexpectedly got pregnant, didn't have a diet rich in folate before she got pregnant, and now has m/s to the extent that she can't fathom eating much and can't keep a supplement down either. Will she for sure have a baby that has some sort of problem or defect?

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#65 of 126 Old 01-20-2010, 02:08 AM
 
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Hmmm, so is THIS really "good" folate? I found it online for less that 25% the cost of FolaPro but it's obviously not a savings if it's not the right product. Any thoughts?

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#66 of 126 Old 01-20-2010, 03:39 AM
 
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ok somewhat hypothetical question here...

What if a mom unexpectedly got pregnant, didn't have a diet rich in folate before she got pregnant, and now has m/s to the extent that she can't fathom eating much and can't keep a supplement down either. Will she for sure have a baby that has some sort of problem or defect?
Nope, not at all. Folic acid helps to prevent neural tube defects - there are a number of different specific conditions. The actual rates for each one vary but it is usually only 2-3 per 1000 births *at most* without supplementation. Individual risk may increase a bit if a woman was very folate deficient.

With supplementation the rates of neural tube defects reduce by about 80% but do not disappear completely.

Almost nothing is "for sure" in health

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#67 of 126 Old 01-20-2010, 11:32 AM
 
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ok somewhat hypothetical question here...

What if a mom unexpectedly got pregnant, didn't have a diet rich in folate before she got pregnant, and now has m/s to the extent that she can't fathom eating much and can't keep a supplement down either. Will she for sure have a baby that has some sort of problem or defect?
Probably about half the pregnancies in the US fit into this category. The typical US diet isn't folate rich, and roughly half of pregnancies are unplanned, and the time period when the neural tube is closing is quite soon after the first missed period.
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#68 of 126 Old 01-23-2010, 08:51 PM
 
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wow very interesting info! So If you were going to be trying to get pregnant(i'm not anytime soon)what supp would you take for folate? Would you get from food and supp? I know I would feel most comfortable supping as well as trying to get from foods but Lord knows the 1st tri is hard when it comes to eating
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#69 of 126 Old 01-29-2010, 05:23 PM
 
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Just wanted to say thanks. This thread (and some others) prompted me to switch to a folate supplement FolaPro and request a MTHFR test last week when I was at the perinatologist (even though they supposedly tested me twice over for bleeding/clotting disorders due to my SCHs with this pregnancy and Hx of post-partum hemorrhage with my first). I have a homozygous c677 MTHFR mutation. Begins to explain a bunch of things throughout the family tree....knowledge is power

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#70 of 126 Old 01-29-2010, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to say thanks. This thread (and some others) prompted me to switch to a folate supplement FolaPro and request a MTHFR test last week when I was at the perinatologist (even though they supposedly tested me twice over for bleeding/clotting disorders due to my SCHs with this pregnancy and Hx of post-partum hemorrhage with my first). I have a homozygous c677 MTHFR mutation. Begins to explain a bunch of things throughout the family tree....knowledge is power
What hemorrhage issues have you had? I want to investigate that more. I understand clotting issues are associated with MTHFR, but from a 'too much' clotting pov.


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#71 of 126 Old 01-29-2010, 08:31 PM
 
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I hemorrhaged immediately following my 1st DD's birth and had a second hemorrhage 2 days later at which point it was determined that I had retained a lobe of my (double lobed) placenta which had adhered to my cervix. I also was diagnosed with subchorionic hemorrhages with this pregnancy, which seemed to come from the corner of my placenta pulling away from my uterine wall.

So, the way I think about it, I could have a bleeding problem wherein I didn't clot properly at my 1st delivery and the 2nd hemorrhage was due to retained placental fragments. Then the sch could be due to improper clotting from implantation bleeding or something....OR

I have placenta abruption problems and my placenta may have partially abrupted at delivery #1 which is why part properly vacated my uterus and part stayed AND I had a partial abruption this pregnancy which led to the schs, which would be consistent with the MTHFR.

That said, I don't bruise easily, no history of miscarriage, no super heavy menses, and a childhood history of frequent fairly major nosebleeds.

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#72 of 126 Old 01-29-2010, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did you have HELLP syndrome?


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#73 of 126 Old 01-29-2010, 10:55 PM
 
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No. I had pretty severe edema starting about midway through the pregnancy and my BP began to climb toward the end, but never to the point where my MWs became seriously concerned. I assume that my urine looked okay because they never mentioned it to me as a problem.

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#74 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 07:03 PM
 
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This last 24 hours have been a whirlwind of emotion. But admist it all I kept thinking, "Thank you, Pat! Thank you, Pat!" over and over.

So, I read this thread completely when it first appeared in January. I had been taking a grocery store brand prenatal because I tolerated it well for about a year. I had my first loss in 10/2009. The first week of February I started my new prenatal which was food based and had 1000mg of folate not folic acid. I had my second loss that same week. I continued taking the new prenatal and have since then. I discovered I was pregnant at the end of May and at the appointment with my new RE she mentioned that my previous RE had tested for many things (at my insistence) after my first loss but there were a few things he missed. She mentioned he hadn't checked for MTHFR. I said that I thought he had. Turns out he just checked my homocysteine level which was normal. At my, "Well, if we are taking blood anyway, why don't we check MTHFR too?" She agreed. Turns out I am compound heterozygous for MTHFR mutation. Yep. I started on the food based supplement Metanx today. I credit *still* being pregnant with the fact that since February I have been on Folate. It may only be coincidence but I just don't believe it.

Thank you Pat for helping to realize my dream of motherhood by bringing this knowledge to me. I appreciate the time and attention you have given this matter. I am speechless with gratitude.

Sincerely,
Jenne

PS- Also, thank you for helping me to help my parents and brother who live with a variety of MTHFR mutation side effects: allergies, hardening of the arteries, Type II Diabetes, nueropathy, and fibromyalgia. I was able to share the MTHFR information with them.

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#75 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm delighted at your note. Thank you for sharing. I would suggest considering Methyl-B12 as a sublingual, rather than an oral tablet. B12 is poorly absorbable in the stomach. Liver would be an ideal source.
http://www.health101.org/art_methylcobalamin.htm

Also, I don't know about the B6 supplement; however, this one has sulfate which is important for the detox pathways. Although, sulfate is poorly absorbably in the gut. Epsom salt baths are ideal. http://www.biomedsearch.com/nih/Pyrr...5/7171550.html

Homocysteine levels are lowered (without benefit) by synthetic folic acid. Therefore are an inaccurate representation of MTHFR status.

Here is the product insert for Metanxy. It is considered a "medical food" (ie. nutrient by prescription (patent formula). It is not a food based supplement. 2-4 cups daily (total) of beans, greens, legumes, liver is the whole food source of these nutrients.
http://www.metanx.com/HCP,PackageInsert

World's Healthiest Foods:
B6: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=108
B12: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=107
Folate: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=63

Take wonderful care,

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#76 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 08:26 PM
 
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I'm delighted at your note. Thank you for sharing. I would suggest considering Methyl-B12 as a sublingual, rather than an oral tablet. B12 is poorly absorbable in the stomach. Liver would be an ideal source.
http://www.health101.org/art_methylcobalamin.htm
No less an authority than the March of Dimes cautions women about liver consumption during pregnancy, "A pregnant woman who eats liver regularly may consume enough vitamin A to pose a risk to her baby. "

"The body makes its own vitamin A, when needed, from substances such as beta carotene, which is found in yellow and green vegetables. This raw material for the vitamin is completely safe and healthy during pregnancy. However, much of the vitamin A consumed is the preformed vitamin (retinol) which, in excessive amounts, may cause birth defects. "

"Liver is the only food that provides very high amounts of vitamin A. For example (7):

* A 3-ounce serving of beef liver may contain 27,000 IUs.
* A 3-ounce serving of chicken liver may contain 12,000 IUs."

http://www.marchofdimes.com/professi...14332_1152.asp
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#77 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No less an authority than the March of Dimes cautions women about liver consumption during pregnancy, "A pregnant woman who eats liver regularly may consume enough vitamin A to pose a risk to her baby. "
Weston A. Price Foundation disagrees. Here is their discussion of the concern regarding Vit A and Vit D ratios: http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-live...-straight.html

And specifically regarding liver consumption during pregnancy: http://www.westonaprice.org/childrens-health/309.html


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#78 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 09:46 PM
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"Liver is the only food that provides very high amounts of vitamin A. For example (7):

* A 3-ounce serving of beef liver may contain 27,000 IUs.
* A 3-ounce serving of chicken liver may contain 12,000 IUs."
At 27 weeks, this is a good reminder that I need to eat more liver!!!
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#79 of 126 Old 06-03-2010, 10:51 PM
 
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I have a friend who is tongue-tied. She has had 1 child and then 8 miscarriages - all around 6 weeks. Could this be MTHFR? If so, what specific blood tests would she ask for and what can she do to prevent another miscarriage?

Thank you Pat and others for this information.

Due Nov 2010 with baby #3
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#80 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 01:26 AM
 
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ok not trying to be rude, but why is this in the already pregant section? I am going to worry now about another thing. I do not have money just sitting here, waiting for me to order stuff online. we are an average family with very little income. I come to these boards because I breastfeed and use cloth and I am interested in learning more. but to be told My baby is going to have this and that, cause I can't afford the GOOD stuff is well... bull.
I have 3 seemingly healthy children.
way to make a prego mama scared!

mama to Alex 20 Briana 16 Cory 10 and Jade 3Tubes tied and regret it
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#81 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 09:14 AM
 
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ok not trying to be rude, but why is this in the already pregant section? I am going to worry now about another thing. I do not have money just sitting here, waiting for me to order stuff online. we are an average family with very little income. I come to these boards because I breastfeed and use cloth and I am interested in learning more. but to be told My baby is going to have this and that, cause I can't afford the GOOD stuff is well... bull.
I have 3 seemingly healthy children.
way to make a prego mama scared!
Interesting point. Perhaps it should be in the TTC section?

I hear ya about not enough money for fancy supplements. I can only afford whole foods and we eat alot of greens and lentils everyday and liver once a week if we can afford it. Grass fed liver is $5 a package.
We have a green smoothie, and a huge helping of steamed greens. I think we are doing well for folate. And we drink nettles infusion everyday.

If I had the MTHFR gene (who knows if I do, never tested) , I may look into homeopathy and different trace minerals as both have been known to actually change the genes. We are doing these things anyway and are seeing difference in our food allergy reactions.
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#82 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have a friend who is tongue-tied. She has had 1 child and then 8 miscarriages - all around 6 weeks. Could this be MTHFR? If so, what specific blood tests would she ask for and what can she do to prevent another miscarriage?

Thank you Pat and others for this information.
I'd ask for the MTHFR gene blood test.

Pat

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#83 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ok not trying to be rude, but why is this in the already pregant section? I am going to worry now about another thing. I do not have money just sitting here, waiting for me to order stuff online. we are an average family with very little income. I come to these boards because I breastfeed and use cloth and I am interested in learning more. but to be told My baby is going to have this and that, cause I can't afford the GOOD stuff is well... bull.
I have 3 seemingly healthy children.
way to make a prego mama scared!
The issue is that during pregnancy, taking synthetic folic acid has risks. And the emphasis on EATING food folate for proper DNA development. Both are empowering and important actions that a pregnant mother can do.

Nothing to order on line. Eat Greens.


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#84 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 01:27 PM
 
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The issue is that during pregnancy, taking synthetic folic acid has risks. And the emphasis on EATING food folate for proper DNA development. Both are empowering and important actions that a pregnant mother can do.

Nothing to order on line. Eat Greens.


Pat
well I take extra of the bad folic acid, see I was told it was ok. now your saying its not. I do eat greens, beans, liver once in while, I like it. but not everyday. i still think this should be moved so we don't have to worry about more stuff. put it in a diffrent section.

I know a woman who could not eat while pg and she never misscarried and the baby was fine. she drank insure, when she could keep it down.

I have been looking at the links and how can you say nothiing needs to be bought? keifer starters, probiaotics there was more, i can't recall right now.

anyway I know my baby is healthy and fine.

mama to Alex 20 Briana 16 Cory 10 and Jade 3Tubes tied and regret it
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#85 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 01:35 PM
 
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I think there will always be new things to "worry about" when pg. That is just how life is. I like all the new information. Because, it helps me make better decisions. And if I don't like it or can't afford it, I will retain the good part of the info and leave the rest.

I think that if you are a worrier, then you need to be extra careful on any of these boards. Because you will always find things to worry about. If you are not, like me, it does not really matter.

Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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#86 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 02:34 PM
 
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Corysmilk, I agree with you. When this thread was first posted months ago it was titled something like 'folic acid is bad' (not exactly that wording). I, being a mama who was then taking a BIG (2-4mg) of 'fake' folate daily to keep my baby healthy. I felt it was a harmful post for those of us who can't/don't eat natural folate in the big quantities that our healthcare team has recommended. I also feel that the normal ol' folic acid our midwives/ob's/peri's are recommending is fine. That a handful of studies don't change the previous research and recommendations.

Of course it's always good to go with the most natural source for folate but that just isn't reasonable for many (most?) mamas.

Cindy, joyful SAH mama to rainbow1284.gif William & Katherinefly-by-nursing2.gif Forever missing Amelia 7-12-09 angel3.gif  signcirc1.gifsaynovax.giflactivist.gif Ask me about my natural cesarean! 

 

 

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#87 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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I'm not sure if I should laugh or pound my head against a wall.

Thanks, but I'll keep taking my prenatals.
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#88 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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I'm not sure if I should laugh or pound my head against a wall.

Thanks, but I'll keep taking my prenatals.
neither

mama to Alex 20 Briana 16 Cory 10 and Jade 3Tubes tied and regret it
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#89 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 11:13 PM
 
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Corysmilk, I agree with you. When this thread was first posted months ago it was titled something like 'folic acid is bad' (not exactly that wording). I, being a mama who was then taking a BIG (2-4mg) of 'fake' folate daily to keep my baby healthy. I felt it was a harmful post for those of us who can't/don't eat natural folate in the big quantities that our healthcare team has recommended. I also feel that the normal ol' folic acid our midwives/ob's/peri's are recommending is fine. That a handful of studies don't change the previous research and recommendations.

Of course it's always good to go with the most natural source for folate but that just isn't reasonable for many (most?) mamas.
i am still taking mine too

mama to Alex 20 Briana 16 Cory 10 and Jade 3Tubes tied and regret it
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#90 of 126 Old 06-04-2010, 11:30 PM
 
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I'm not sure if I should laugh or pound my head against a wall.

Thanks, but I'll keep taking my prenatals.
You can get a prenatal with folate if you want. Thorne makes them, sells them online and I hear at some HFSs (mine doesn't carry them though), it's not a crazy expensive brand, and there are lots of sales online.

eta: I think there's at least one more company that uses real folate, one of the companies that makes food-based supps, but I don't remember the name.
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