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#1 of 22 Old 02-28-2010, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My dd7 was just diagnosed ADHD. We were originally given Ritalin but we didn't feel good about giving that to her. I looked up the Feingold diet and we have loosely been following that.

My question is....we had her tested for gluten allergy last year and it came back negative. Even though she does not have a gluten allergy can it still cause issues with the ADHD? Should we still remove it from her diet?

Another question.... my dd is not a big meat eater at all. She got most of her protein from dairy. However dairy is a big contributor to her breakdowns and I have read that soy isn't ideal to give to a child with ADHD. Where can I find good recipes for high protien foods that aren't soley based on meat or beans?

Any other help or experience would be greatly appreciated!

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#2 of 22 Old 02-28-2010, 09:04 AM
 
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not sure about the FG diet, but what about eggs? also, is the dairy excluding cow products only or also goat/sheeps milk? what about nuts and seeds?

the other thing to consider is the non-med route (behavioral tx and PMT).

good luck finding the balance!

Happy Mommy to one amazing girl (6y) and one sweet boy (2y), and wife to DH since 7/03 : :
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#3 of 22 Old 02-28-2010, 11:42 AM
 
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If she was tested for a gluten "allergy", meaning IgE, then yes, it is definitely possible that she has a gluten intolerance. If you know that dairy is a big contributor to her breakdowns, then yes, it sounds like going dairy free would be a good idea as well. To know if it's really working, you have to take it ALL out (if you're following Feingold "loosely", it may be why you're not seeing improvement). And you have to give it 4-6 weeks to get out of her system to see if it's an improvement. Check supplements etc.

If you take out those two things, then it might open up her palate and she may be more willing to try new things (that happened with my kids). There are kid-friendly meats (like meatballs, sausage, etc.) rather than a big slab of meat. Or meat in things like meatsauce. Beans are good too (is there a reason she doesn't like them?). My DS has learned to love chickpeas and baked beans and refried beans, where before he wouldn't have touched them. There are other proteins though: nuts, certain grains (buckwheat, quinoa). We do coconut milk yogurt and coconut milk for good fats. We do bone broth for calcium and intestinal healing. I can give you meal ideas if you want. For a 7yo, I would make the whole family go on it for a little while so she doesn't feel so left out (you never know, you might find that you all feel better). Then if she sees herself feeling better, she may not mind that you are having something different. But for the first adjustment, it's easier.

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#4 of 22 Old 02-28-2010, 12:13 PM
 
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If you looked up Feingold vs. buying the materials you are likely only cutting out dyes/coloring and preservatives... which means you're not cutting out the salicylates--which are in whole, fresh foods (even organic ones). Feingold isn't exactly something you can follow loosely this way and expect it to be a representation of what that diet can do for you. Actually, I think that's true of any diet--since trace amounts of gluten and/or casein can cause reactions (true of my son's behavior for trace amounts of milk--very shocking).

Also, one of our prior GIs told us that 80-85% of people reactive to milk protein are also reactive to soy. So if you know dairy makes her react in any way, I'd cut them both out for 2 weeks and then reintroduce one to see if you truly NEED both gone. The thing is, if you only initially remove one and not both, you may not see any improvement. Usually the rule is to only make one change at a time so that you can pinpoint what is causing a reaction; but in a case where two things go hand in hand like that--this is the better route. Much like removing gluten means removing wheat, barley, rye AND oats.

Most people mistake FG for being about food colorings and preservatives. I avoided buying the materials for a few years based on that assumption. I finally bought the materials when a friend informed me that some of the fresh, whole, organic fruits and veggies we ate could be a huge problem.

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#5 of 22 Old 02-28-2010, 01:54 PM
 
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My kids and I have issues with gluten and dairy, and they're a weird mishmash of symptoms, and I don't know if testing would detect any of it. DD has digestive issues with gluten, but DS and I don't, it's mood/fatigue-type stuff for me, and spinning for him. Dairy, I think, would cause the same (never trialled it alone) but it also causes vomiting in DS and congestion/stuffiness in me. And I second the mention of dairy/soy cross-reactions, though for DS, the reaction is totally different--that one IS gastro. I'm pretty sure that none of this would show up with traditional IgE allergy testing, it's all intolerances.

Our reactions aren't ADHD, but common food allergens can cause such a wide range of symptoms that I think it's worthwhile to seriously explore. But, at least for us, I don't think removing just one food at a time would've been helpful--we're sensitive enough that even a regular portion of any of the foods would've messed with us enough that other improvements just wouldn't be visible.

There are threads in the Allergies forum (which isn't just IgE allergies) about meal ideas. Hopefully with dairy removed, her interest in other foods will increase--it's not a guarantee, but it seems to happen quite often.
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#6 of 22 Old 03-04-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies.

By loosely following I meant we have taken all the fruits and veggies out that have the salicylates, dropped milk, and all foods with colorings and preservatives. I haven't been overly attentive if something has a trace of milk in it. I will go gung ho starting this weekend though as this week as been less than ideal.

Is buying the materials from Feingolds site worth the money? Can I find the same info online for free/cheaper? I am not opposed to spending the money I just want it to be something that really will help her.

Now a question about dairy. We eat kefir often because of intense yeast issues in both dd and I. Is kefir on the do not eat list? I know its still dairy but does the fermenting process get rid of the issue?

Kim- Simple livin' mama to 4 great kiddos.
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#7 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 12:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlinsmom View Post
Now a question about dairy. We eat kefir often because of intense yeast issues in both dd and I. Is kefir on the do not eat list? I know its still dairy but does the fermenting process get rid of the issue?
While you're doing the trial, take it out; it's dairy. After you take out things completely, then you can trial certain parts to see if it can be tolerated. Otherwise, you won't know for sure.

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#8 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 12:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caitlinsmom View Post
Now a question about dairy. We eat kefir often because of intense yeast issues in both dd and I. Is kefir on the do not eat list? I know its still dairy but does the fermenting process get rid of the issue?
It'll depend on why (if) dairy is an issue. We have issues with the protein, at least that's my best guess, and so it would be a no-go for us. I'd think kefir, and especially goat milk kefir, would be among the most tolerated of dairy products out there, and someday I anticipate it for us, but not now. I'd try to cut it out completely for a while to give dairy-free a really solid trial, and then if you want to trial kefir, you can really see what happens. But, depending on the combo of foods and symptoms, removing just dairy without others (if there are others, if dairy is an issue) may not show improvement. GF is big for us.

A good quality, dairy/soy-free probiotic may help in the interim. I make kimchee (napa cabbage, quite mild in flavor, plus shredded carrots, green onions, a little radish, and some garlic and ginger, it's way yummy--it's fermented) and it does a good job getting DD's gut back in balance. When we eat it regularly (we tend to run out, we eat so much) I can see improvement in her poop.
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#9 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post

A good quality, dairy/soy-free probiotic may help in the interim. I make kimchee (napa cabbage, quite mild in flavor, plus shredded carrots, green onions, a little radish, and some garlic and ginger, it's way yummy--it's fermented) and it does a good job getting DD's gut back in balance. When we eat it regularly (we tend to run out, we eat so much) I can see improvement in her poop.
I will go completely dairy free and we'll see what happens. I plan on hitting the grovery store tomorrow and it will pretty basic around here for a while.

Has anyone noticed a change in bathroom habits once going GFCF? DD vasilates between seriously constipated to well the other extreme (she's been this way forever). This is one of the issues that originally made us look at a gluten allergy (along with every other symptom of the list).

Anyone have a few favored recipes they are willing to share? We are big into bread and dairy around here. I think I will be at a loss until I can kick my brain into the right mode.

Kim- Simple livin' mama to 4 great kiddos.
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#10 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 02:07 AM
 
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I think there are Feingold Yahoo groups you could join.

You could look at the FAILSAFE Diet which is more comprehensive and more recently researched than Feingold. Feingold misses a lot of salicylates I'm sorry to say, we know this for certain as my DS is very sensitive.

His main sx are insomnia, urine leakage and eczema from sals. We are on a nutrient loading program to expand his tolerance. See the "Salicylate, Amine, Histamine Sensitive Tribe" thread in Allergies forum.

Sue Dengate's FAILSAFE site:
www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info

Very good companion site by a FAILSAFE dieter on the spectrum:
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com

Another clear site, good chart
www.salicylatesensitivity.com

I got "Why Can't My Child Behave?" which is the book describing the Feingold Diet, and "Fed Up", on the FAILSAFE diet, at the library thru interlibrary loan.
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#11 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 02:09 AM
 
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Carrots are incorrect on food list here but otherwise the discusson on ADHD is very good and also the references at bottom are great for the scientific background:

http://www.virtualmedicalcentre.com/...le.asp?sid=191
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#12 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 02:15 AM
 
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Oh and sorry... I wanted to say that typically going GFCF for behavioral issues relates to the protein peptides in casein and gluten. If they are not broken down by the digestive system into individual amino acids, the peptides can create a morphine like high in susceptible individuals.

There is also some evidence that for the peptide issue, not for IgE or any other allergy involving the immune system, that digestive enzymes work very well instead of going GFCF:

www.enzymestuff.com - Karen's first book on "Enzymes for Autism" is the one to read for this, check library. She also has a good article on Phenols and Salicylates on the website.

http://www.houston-enzymes.com/learn/articles/
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#13 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 10:23 AM
 
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In the Allergy subforum, under Resources, there are a few allergy recipe links that will be gluten/dairy free (among other things). I have recipes as well. And yes, gluten/dairy can have a big impact on bowel issues.

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#14 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caitlinsmom View Post
Has anyone noticed a change in bathroom habits once going GFCF? DD vasilates between seriously constipated to well the other extreme (she's been this way forever). This is one of the issues that originally made us look at a gluten allergy (along with every other symptom of the list).

Anyone have a few favored recipes they are willing to share? We are big into bread and dairy around here. I think I will be at a loss until I can kick my brain into the right mode.
You'll find a lot of good stuff in the Allergies forum, it's not just IgE allergies though there are people dealing with that as well. DD's poop improved, but she had a different pattern.

Here's the kimchee recipe I use....
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...n#post13408073

In general, the basic recipe of a meat, a starchy veggie (sweet potatoes, carrots, other stuff along those lines) and a green veggie makes a nice dinner. Or sub a grain like quinoa for the starchy veggie. That's saved us some nights when I have no creativity. Besides the Allergies forum, there are lots of grain-free threads around, and even though you're not grain-free, there are good ideas there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Oh and sorry... I wanted to say that typically going GFCF for behavioral issues relates to the protein peptides in casein and gluten. If they are not broken down by the digestive system into individual amino acids, the peptides can create a morphine like high in susceptible individuals.
I think this is our issue, for me as mom as well as for DS--my symptoms are very different, as an adult, but we are susceptible to the same types of things.
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#15 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 10:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caitlinsmom View Post
Thanks for the replies.

By loosely following I meant we have taken all the fruits and veggies out that have the salicylates, dropped milk, and all foods with colorings and preservatives. I haven't been overly attentive if something has a trace of milk in it. I will go gung ho starting this weekend though as this week as been less than ideal.

Is buying the materials from Feingolds site worth the money? Can I find the same info online for free/cheaper? I am not opposed to spending the money I just want it to be something that really will help her.

Now a question about dairy. We eat kefir often because of intense yeast issues in both dd and I. Is kefir on the do not eat list? I know its still dairy but does the fermenting process get rid of the issue?
Joining the Feingold Association www.feingold.org is definitely worth the money. If one could get the same info about the foods in the stores then there would be no need for the org. Foodlist & Shopping Guide. There's too much that is not on the ingredient label and you could be getting reactions and think the diet is not working. The org maintains communication with the products they list and only those things free of those additives are in the book. It is update all the time and pass the info onto the members.

Someone said that Feingold is not up to date. That's not true at all. And the salicylates listed by Feingold are those that bother most of the people. Salicylates are in nearly every fruit or vegetable. If you don't get success, then you eliminate more.

Hope this helps.
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#16 of 22 Old 03-05-2010, 11:05 PM
 
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thanks for this thread! my 9 year old is beginning the process of being diagnosed and we had a MAJOR meltdown today about 90minutes after some red food dye exposure. i just requested the feingold book from the library and hope we start seeing some improvement. she was a danger to herself and her sisters today and this can't go on. and it's extremely frustrating to know that she's completely out of her own control.

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#17 of 22 Old 03-06-2010, 12:04 PM
 
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Someone said that Feingold is not up to date. That's not true at all. And the salicylates listed by Feingold are those that bother most of the people. Salicylates are in nearly every fruit or vegetable. If you don't get success, then you eliminate more.
That was me. Comparing FAILSAFE Diet research done by Anne Swain at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital several decades after Ben Feingold's, reveals more fruits and veggies with higher salicylate content than the Feingold Diet excludes even in Stage 1.

and I think The FAILSAFE Diet also has more additives flagged than Feingold does. It's really too bad these researchers cannot work together.

Quote:
We don’t eat …

These nasty additives

Colours
All artificial colours
Annatto natural colour 160b

Preservatives
200-203 sorbates 210-218 benzoates 220-228 sulphites 280-283 propionates 249-252 nitrates Synthetic antioxidants 310-312 gallates 319-321 TBHQ, BHA, BHT

Flavour enhancers (all 600 numbers) 620-625 glutamates including MSG (621) 627-635 nucleotides: sodium guanylate (627), sodium inosinate (631), ribonucleotides(635) 636-637 maltol, ethyl maltol 640-641

Sodium glycine, L-leucine Yeast extract, HVP, HPP, hydrolysed vegetable, plant or soy protein
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.in...afebooklet.pdf -
To the OP, one of the secrets is to eliminate lowfat milk, b/c the preservative BHT that is in the vitamin A - retinyl palmitate, is not on the label. Use whole milk only which has natural vitamin A and doesn't need the toxic synthetic added.
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#18 of 22 Old 03-06-2010, 12:48 PM
 
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thanks for this thread! my 9 year old is beginning the process of being diagnosed and we had a MAJOR meltdown today about 90minutes after some red food dye exposure. i just requested the feingold book from the library and hope we start seeing some improvement. she was a danger to herself and her sisters today and this can't go on. and it's extremely frustrating to know that she's completely out of her own control.
Yep, no question there!

Come join us on the Salicylates, Amines, Histamine Sensitive Tribe in Allergies forum.
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#19 of 22 Old 03-07-2010, 02:32 AM
 
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Just a couple of book recommendations:

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Ch.../dp/0345494504

http://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Syn...7940016&sr=1-1

My son is allergic to corn (IgG reaction, wouldn't show up on tests) and his symptoms include ADHD behaviors.
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#20 of 22 Old 03-16-2010, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the info ladies. I have requested several of the books mentioned. I also picked up an allergy free cookbook from the library. The author is GFCF so all of her recipes are too.

As for the salicylates....I don't think they are an issue. DD can have nearly everything on the list as long as it is paired with a protein....however if it isn' watch out! She has a VERY high metabolism and I wonder if she can't handle something simple like an apple because of it. I used to pair apples with peanut butter to give her that needed protein.

Kim- Simple livin' mama to 4 great kiddos.
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#21 of 22 Old 03-20-2010, 02:50 AM
 
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[QUOTE=JaneS;15152061]That was me. Comparing FAILSAFE Diet research done by Anne Swain at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital several decades after Ben Feingold's, reveals more fruits and veggies with higher salicylate content than the Feingold Diet excludes even in Stage 1.

and I think The FAILSAFE Diet also has more additives flagged than Feingold does. It's really too bad these researchers cannot work together."]



If you check pages 47-60 of the Feingold Handbook, you will see that the Swain, Dutton and Truswell study in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1985 and used by the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital covers the latest information on salicylates.

It should also be pointed out that this reasearch are measurements without any specifics about the kind of salicylate. Nobody has done any research on the relative toxicity of the different salicylate. Nobody knows which kind of salicylate is worse for a sensitive person. And if they did know, it wouldn’t help because nobody knows how much of which ones are in any particular food. So knowing the amounts of salicylates are could be useless.

The Feingold diet eliminates those salicylate-containing foods that have been shown to be most likely to cause problems. The basic list used by the Feingold Association has been determined clinically. For those more sensitive, the newer information is published by the Association as well as I stated in my first paragraph.
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#22 of 22 Old 03-20-2010, 02:53 AM
 
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That was me. Comparing FAILSAFE Diet research done by Anne Swain at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital several decades after Ben Feingold's, reveals more fruits and veggies with higher salicylate content than the Feingold Diet excludes even in Stage 1.

and I think The FAILSAFE Diet also has more additives flagged than Feingold does. It's really too bad these researchers cannot work together.



To the OP, one of the secrets is to eliminate lowfat milk, b/c the preservative BHT that is in the vitamin A - retinyl palmitate, is not on the label. Use whole milk only which has natural vitamin A and doesn't need the toxic synthetic added.



If you check pages 47-60 of the Feingold Handbook, you will see that the Swain, Dutton and Truswell study in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1985 and used by the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital covers the latest information on salicylates.

It should also be pointed out that this reasearch are measurements without any specifics about the kind of salicylate. Nobody has done any research on the relative toxicity of the different salicylate. Nobody knows which kind of salicylate is worse for a sensitive person. And if they did know, it wouldn’t help because nobody knows how much of which ones are in any particular food. So knowing the amounts of salicylates are could be useless.

The Feingold diet eliminates those salicylate-containing foods that have been shown to be most likely to cause problems. The basic list used by the Feingold Association has been determined clinically. For those more sensitive, the newer information is published by the Association as well as I stated in my first paragraph.
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