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#1 of 15 Old 03-12-2004, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Within the next couple weeks, I will be taping a few NPR radio shows: pilots for a regular weekly series with an emphasis on BF, AP, Family Bed, vaccine alternatives,. homeopathy and the way we here view medical care and parenting and more.

I would like some "call-in" questions.

These will be taped shows initially so the producer will take your number, arrange a pre-set time and call you.

Mary Beth at MBK@well.com is handling this and I'd appreciate your spreading the word and emailing her.

(Please pardon the repetitive postings. I'd like to get quite a few "Mothering" friends involved.)

Thank you!

Jay Gordon, MD, FAAP, IBCLC
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#2 of 15 Old 03-12-2004, 05:18 PM
 
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welcome to MDC. It is great to have you here and I am looking forward to your radio shows. I already e-mailed Mary Beth.
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#3 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 12:04 AM
 
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Unfortunately Dr. Gordon is not aware of the trauma caused to a child by circumcision.

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#4 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess I'll keep answering as long bjbjbd keeps asking:

I just replied by private email but will post my views here, too.

For 25 years, I have spoken out in favor of keeping male babies intact and have emphasized that not lidocaine, wine nor EMLA protects a baby from pain during circumcision.

I have gotten into trouble with everyone from OBs to Jews by stating that Jewish boys can remain intact and obey 612 of the 613 laws in the Bible.

I have stated publicly and privately that we would not have circumcised our (Jewish) child if he had been a boy. We had a girl. I have the opportunity to talk to thousands of families each year--and millions more if this radio show works--and tell them the same thing over and over again: Circumcision hurts and there are no valid medical reasons to do it and plenty of medical reasons not to do it.

I am proud of my columns for "Fit Pregnancy" and have taken a much more moderate stand about circumcision in that publication when I said that this remains a personal choice. By that I mean, the parents must gather all the information and advice they need and make a decision. I cannot make this the "deal breaker" in my relationship with a mother and father and baby when I have many other crucial things to talk about. This is a large issue but not the only issue. I am a very strong advocate for Attachment Parenting, the Family Bed, vaccine alternatives and natural medicine in general.

My association with Peggy and "Mothering" is a treasure to me and will not post here again if this moderation offends you. (Since I posted this elsewhere a half hour ago, I have changed my mind: I like it here and I'll post here if they let me.)

All My Best,

Jay Gordon, MD, FAAP, IBCLC

--

http://www.drjaygordon.com

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/video.../07/video524536

http://www.attachmentparenting.org/
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#5 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 06:57 AM
 
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Dr Jay rocks.

If only he took insurance:LOL
Welcome I am happy to have you here.
Elyice
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#6 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 07:17 AM
 
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Quote:
. . . have emphasized that not lidocaine, wine nor EMLA protects a baby from pain during circumcision.
http://www.drjaygordon.com/faqs/anestcirc.htm
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#7 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 12:21 PM
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well now I'm confused. Thanks for the link Last Minute. Weird.
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#8 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 12:22 PM
 
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There's room for differing personal and profession opinions here I think. I hope you stay.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#9 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 01:23 PM
 
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In response to Last Minute's quote...

I don't think his answer to that question on his web site makes him pro-circ. Proper anaesthesia is better than no anaesthesia at all. I think Dr. Gordon can be anti-circ but still be placed in the unfortunate circumstance of having parents who want to circ their kids in his practice. Like he has said, it's unfortunate, but in the *long run*, they will benefit from the bfing and AP support at his practice.

(FWIW, I didn't circ my ds, and if I have more boys, I won't circ them, either. And my pediatrician agrees, thankfully.)
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#10 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Dorsal penile nerve blocks hurt when they go in. Probably EMLA plus a DPNB would be the best pain control.

My problem is this: In an ideal world, there'd be no circumcisions. In the real world, there are. If they are done in spite of the best advice they should be done with the least pain possible. And, if they are done, the parents and family should not be lost nor scorned. They may still be AP, FB, BF folks. I have taken care of families who did a circ on the first boy, learned more and left the second intact.

Jay
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#11 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 01:56 PM
 
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First of all I hope you stick around and post more often.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Gordon, MD
And, if they are done, the parents and family should not be lost nor scorned.

I understand where you are coming from, but if a parent does the research then they have some understanding of how horrible circumcision is, and if they still do it anyway it's usually to match Daddy, or any number of the old wives' tales. :Puke Should we embrace these parents and say it's OK, you didn't do anything wrong? I know I sure can't. Fact is, they DID do something wrong, even more wrong than doing it without the information. They have the truth right in front of them, but still insist on doing this to their sons for selfish reasons. That doesn't have to be respected. I don't advocate being hateful, rude, or mean toward people that circ, but I can't respect someone the same as before when I know they have done this when they had the information against it right in front of them. But I do agree that if it is going to be done that proper pain relief should be used. It should be illegal to do circs without pain relief. Of course if I had my way circ would be illegal unless done for medical reasons.

Would you make the same comment above about those that circ their daughters, putting aside that it is now illegal because it wasn't always that way? Do you do RIC?


Dr. Jay, will you help support The MGM bill?
http://www.mgmbill.org/index.htm


FTR, I think you are a wonderful doctor. We need more open-minded quality physicians like yourself. Now how about getting a section up on your web site that's all about circ and why you shouldn't do it ~ in your own words, and under the faq.
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#12 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 04:15 PM
 
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Emphasizing that lidocaine does not protect a baby from pain during circumcision . . .

- yet -

advocating the use of lidocaine on the website as The Best Anesthetic for Circumcision . . .

Does Not Make Dr Jay Gordon Pro-Circ . . .
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#13 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Strong temptation to leave these posts alone but that would be a cop out.

You know how strongly you feel about circumscision? I feel that strongly about breastfeeding and the Family Bed.

My feelings about circumcision are definitely "anti" and I appreciate what you do more than you know. I think that some of the words used are inflammatory and actually make the discussion harder. I understand why the MGM Bill is titled and worded as it is but it actually polarizes the discussion and strengthens the resolve of those who think circumcision is the best option. My suggestion that parents gather information and advice and look into their hearts strikes some as wishy washy. Yes, it is much less forceful than your stance but keeps the lines of communication open between me and my patients and between me and an online or in-print audience. In other words, maybe if I could do what you do, I would. I feel I serve children better by doing what I do.

A wordy way of saying, thank you for your work. I respect it tremendously. Please understand why I can't do exactly what you do or say exactly what you say.

Best,

Jay
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#14 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 06:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Gordon, MD
My suggestion that parents gather information and advice and look into their hearts strikes some as wishy washy. Yes, it is much less forceful than your stance but keeps the lines of communication open between me and my patients and between me and an online or in-print audience. In other words, maybe if I could do what you do, I would. I feel I serve children better by doing what I do.

You can do what we do, you choose not to. You can come out and say circ is wrong, other doctors do, and some even refuse to do them. I strongly feel it's the fault of doctors that circs are so common and I feel it's going to have to be doctors and insurance companies that end the practice. Doctors started circ in the USA, now it's up to them to put a stop to it. People look up to you for guidance. They usually do what doctors tell them to do (Not that I agree with that.), and if a doctor is wishy washy on circ and will agree to perform it for them then how are they supposed to really know how bad circ is? If it's really bad doctors won't do it, right? I can't tell you how many times I've heard that before.

I really hope you will reconsider your stance on circ, and please don't feel offended by any of the posts here. This is just something that most of us see as a human rights issue, and it brings out a lot of emotions.

Oh, and I feel strongly about breastfeeding and the family bed too. Circumcision should be seen as a much more serious issue though IMO. It surgically alters the child for life, the risks are great, and it violates the child's body and rights. Not to mention it's very painful, damaging, and totally unnecessary.
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#15 of 15 Old 03-13-2004, 07:31 PM
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As the purpose of this thread was for Dr. Gordon to let our community know of his upcoming radio program in need of participants I think the discussion that is resulting is a bit off topic. If you would like to discuss specific topics with Dr. Jay then please start another thread and invite him to participate. If you have questions about the program then please contact Mary Beth.


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