bloody stool NEVER seems to go away... - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 24 Old 06-24-2010, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK so DD has had bloody stool for 9 months...shes 9 m/o you can NOT see the blood but when they test it its always blood so they said oh food intolerance so i cut every common allergen out of my diet and went gluten free as well. all i eat are organic whole foods as well..

i eat:
fruits (-strawberries)
vegetables (-corn)
potatoes
rice
pork
chicken
turkey

that is all i eat period. thats all DD eats too.

i gave her some quinoa pasta last night and she had a reaction...dry skin and visible blood in her stool...so guess thats a no go too

so heres the thing i have eliminated everything and it seems she has some uncommon foods allergies too but is this strictly a food allergy thing?
i asked before if she could have some digestion bleeding issues and have been assured many times and by different doctors that shes way too healthy and thriving for it to be anything but allergies...but come on she cant be allergic to everything! even when i think her poop is normal and they test it it has had blood and then they so oh im sure its just a virus...like ok so if its not an intolerance its a virus? why does she always have bloody poop?! im going nuts! shes 9 m/o 25 1/2 in tall and 17.4lbs so shes been dropping in weight gain recently...i just dont understand how she can keep having this blood

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#2 of 24 Old 06-24-2010, 09:55 PM
 
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Can you get occult blood test strips or something so you can test every time so that you know for sure whether she "always" has it or not (vs. every time they test, which might not be the same thing)?

Try swapping out foods. My DS for instance can't have potatoes or rice or chicken, and a lot of miscellaneous fruits and veggies, so he wouldn't do well on your diet either. You could block eat (as in the same 10 foods for a week, then switch to 10 different foods another week, etc.) and see if anything changes, of the foods you're already on. That could help you further identify things.

Are there any more easily tracked symptoms? Rash? eczema? sleep habits?

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#3 of 24 Old 06-25-2010, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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where could i get those test strips? i didnt think of the block food thing that genius lol!
she has absolutely no other signs its strictly digestive. thats why when she had the quinoa the other day and i could SEE the blood and she had a skin reaction i relize that is an allergy thing KWIM?

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#4 of 24 Old 06-25-2010, 11:51 AM
 
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In your position, I think I'd be demanding more extensive testing by a pediatric gastroenterologist. Blood in the stool is a serious symptom, and when it's accompanied by poor weight gain, I would take it very seriously. I'd be looking into testing for celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease, and similar conditions. I might also go see an allergist. I don't think I'd continue to deal with it at home if it's been going on for so long.

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#5 of 24 Old 06-25-2010, 12:43 PM
 
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I found this website: http://www.cliawaived.com/web/Fecal_...id_Testing.htm (the Hemoccult SENSA FOBT
$85.50 for 100 tests seemed like the most reasonable.

It would help to know whether it's all the time or not.
Celiac is a blood test, and you (she) needs to be consuming at the time for it to be accurate (within a number of weeks, I believe).

So she sleeps fine?

Could be allergy or intolerance. You also might get more ideas if you post in the Allergy subforum.

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#6 of 24 Old 06-25-2010, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well shes not much of a napper but she only wakes 2x at night to eat. every now and again she will scream in her sleep which i have been assured is behavioral. from 0-3 m/o she would scream and scream in her sleep for a long time and i was freaking out i brought her to 6 different doctors and i was assured by every one it was behavioral or the first case of night terrors in an infant...

TY for the website.

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#7 of 24 Old 06-25-2010, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh she has a GI doc for her reflux and the intolerances btw

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#8 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 04:35 AM
 
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Consider fructose malabsorption. We eliminated everything from our diets to figure out why our son had acidic poo (and subsequent holding behavior.) It took us months to figure out it was fructose. No one ever mentioned this as a possibility and oh, how I wish they had. It took lots of detective work and research to figure it out. Are her poops acidic or runny?

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#9 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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well she always has liquidy poop from the BM but now shes on solids and they are pretty solidified however she does have liquid with it sometimes...so what did you do cut out all fruit? i was under the impression fructose did not pass through BM.

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#10 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 11:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anielasmommy09 View Post
well shes not much of a napper but she only wakes 2x at night to eat. every now and again she will scream in her sleep which i have been assured is behavioral. from 0-3 m/o she would scream and scream in her sleep for a long time and i was freaking out i brought her to 6 different doctors and i was assured by every one it was behavioral or the first case of night terrors in an infant...

TY for the website.
I am sorry for your experience. I can't even verbalize my amazement at how clueless some doctors are about food intolerances. (my child's "night terrors" were from milk, also his "growing pains" in his legs, and his "bedwetting" - and no the doctors didn't figure it out. I did.).

You might want to start keeping a food journal and note ALLLLLL symptoms. Keep a record of all naps (she's 9 months old and doesn't nap? am I reading that right?) and sleep, and eating, etc., and everything you and she eats.

There's salicylate bucket reactions too (a food chemical), which is hard to figure out because it's a bucket reaction and it's in a lot of foods. So you may want to look at that if you're looking at a fructose trend too.

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#11 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anielasmommy09 View Post
well she always has liquidy poop from the BM but now shes on solids and they are pretty solidified however she does have liquid with it sometimes...so what did you do cut out all fruit? i was under the impression fructose did not pass through BM.
We just cut fruit out. Fructose is not passed in breast milk. At the time, though, I followed his diet because I didn't know what the problem was. It took us a long time to make the connection. Even after I knew he could eat a little of this but not too much of that I didn't connect fructose until later. Now that we know - things are much better. I knew I finally had it figured out when I stopped worrying if he was going to have a big reaction and he started pooping without prompting in the potty.

Our son didn't have diarrhea or liquid-like poop (maybe once in a while but certainly not often.) Most of the time it was formed but just really soft. When we got the large amounts of fructose out of his diet, the stool texture did change though, in texture and color. The poop was very irritating to his bottom though -- to the point where he would have slight bleeding. I thought for a long time this was allergies/sensitivities to so many different foods. And in a sense, it was -- but not for the reasons I thought!

The problem with fructose is that it is in so many things and it is one of those 'bucket' type reactions so you don't always get symptoms until your bucket overflows and sometimes it can take 2-3 days of eating a little too much to see symptoms. With DS he got to the point where his bucket was *always* overflowing though.

Fructose isn't just in fruit though, it is in many vegetables. Some grains (like wheat) also contain fructans which are a bit of a double whammy because the fructans are a form of fructose AND inhibit absorption. The goal of the diet is not to eliminate fructose, but to eliminate foods with high amounts or foods that have a poor glucose to fructose ratios - glucose actually helps you to absorb fructose to some degree. We needed to find his toleration level and stay under it. We found after we cut out the bad foods for a few months that he was able to tolerate a little more than he had (could also be that his toleration is changing as he gets older.) We also found that cooking method may change toleration levels... he can't eat boiled sweet potatoes but baked ones are fine (I'm guessing it is how the sugars change in the baking process.)

It is a tough one though... I have no idea if this could be the problem for your DD but I rarely see FM discussed so I had to throw it out there.

Here are a few of the foods we are eating:

White rice
Brown rice (though not all people with FM can tolerate this)
Turkey, Chicken (any meat is okay)
Dairy (butter and cheese in moderation. a little cottage cheese or milk if in baked goods or a casserole in small-moderate amounts. he can't tolerate milk. lactose intolerance is common with FM and yogurt or probiotics tend to exacerbate the condition)
Sweet Potatoes (in moderation)
Yellow/White Potatoes
Whole Corn (in small amounts, we had to cut this completely out for a while and he can't tolerate whole ground corn in concentrated amounts - in things like tortillas)
Degermed cornmeal (fructose is removed)
Lentils (some people with FM have a problem with gassy forming foods - see FODMAP diet details)
Carrots (in moderation, this is high in fructose)
Veggie Pasta
Rice Pasta
Quinoa
Quinoa/Corn Pasta
Oatmeal
Sunbutter
Rice Crackers
Celery
Bone Broth
Pamela's Corn Muffins (de-germed corn meal)
Bob's Red Mill Gluten Free Pizza Crust (as bread sticks, etc.)
Bob's Red Mill Gluten Free Pancakes (this does have whole corn in it but he can tolerate it in moderation)
Ian's Gluten Free Alpha-Tots (just potatoes, salt, oil)
Ian's Gluten Free Chicken Nuggets
Puffed veggie (Veggie Booty brand) snacks
Gluten Free Erewhon Rice Crispy Cereal

The big no-nos for us are:

All fruit (pears and apples are the worst especially pear and apple juice concentrate) DS can tolerate a bite or two of REALLY ripe banana esp if it is baked in a banana muffin.
All sweeteners - except plain sugar and evaporated cane juice (in moderation)
Tomatoes
Wheat
Onions

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#12 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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wow thanks for the info! ill try anything really. she has a pcp appt. on the 1st and im going to discuss things with her and she has a GI appt coming up. she had a bad reaction to tomatoe the other day

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#13 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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btw she naps around 12 but sometimes it will be 30 min other times 2hours but she only does 11hr nights but i figured she was just low sleep needs? i have alot of sleeping problems

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#14 of 24 Old 06-26-2010, 11:54 PM
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I'm pretty sure this has been addressed, but is she taking any vitamin/mineral supplements?

Iron in supplements can cause a false positive for occult (hidden) blood in standard tests, as do food stuffs high in iron (espescially meat) although the food aspect is obviously an unlikely cause in a baby .

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#15 of 24 Old 06-27-2010, 02:26 AM
 
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Tomato is the absolute worst trigger for my son, even more than pears and other fruit. I don't know if it is just the high fructose or the high fructose+acidity but he can't handle it at all.

I'd not give up on the quinoa pasta yet. I can't count the number of times I was SO SURE it was the potato, the butter, the <fill in the blank> causing DS' reaction and it wasn't. Bucket reactions are SO, SO hard to pinpoint with journals. DS' reactions were *always* delayed. He would get too much fructose DAYS before I trialed potato and then boom.. a reaction so I'd think it was the potato. It was actually not being able to pinpoint his problems completely that led me to suspect a bucket type reaction.

They do have breath tests for FM. I've heard they are pretty terrible to go through though if you do happen to be fructose intolerant though. They basically give you a ton of fructose and then test your breath. But then, of course, you have to deal with the repercussions of all that fructose. I think it is easier to try the diet first. Two or three weeks with no fruit and low fructose was actually pretty easy for us given we had gone months without SO many foods.

One other thing I thought of -- do you know if she is sensitive to dairy? I know sometimes it can take forever to get dairy proteins out of your systems.

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#16 of 24 Old 06-27-2010, 03:19 AM
 
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Did the quinoa pasta have corn as an ingredient? (The only quinoa pasta I've ever seen was a quinoa-corn mix.) Corn caused bloody stools for my son as an infant. Maybe try eliminating corn from your and your child's diet for a while and see if it helps? Corn is one of the top foods for allergies and intolerances. The food journal idea is a good one. It's hard to figure out the timing of which food caused what reaction when you're nursing and the child is eating solids, but sometimes a clear pattern emerges. Good luck!
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#17 of 24 Old 06-27-2010, 03:25 AM
 
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oops - I misread your original post, and thought you ate corn as one of your few foods. When I reread, I realized you meant veggies minus corn, not including corn. Please disregard my corn comments, and good luck!
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#18 of 24 Old 06-27-2010, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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it was quinoa, brown rice, and amaranth (sp?) mutli blend pasta be Deboles. she does not take any medicine or iron. she eats meat but not enough for that besides she just started solids....like 2 weeks ago....

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#19 of 24 Old 06-27-2010, 03:36 PM
 
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it was quinoa, brown rice, and amaranth (sp?) mutli blend pasta be Deboles. she does not take any medicine or iron. she eats meat but not enough for that besides she just started solids....like 2 weeks ago....
If she just started solids a couple of weeks ago I doubt it is FM. When did you cut out dairy?

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#20 of 24 Old 06-28-2010, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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i cut out dairy at 2 m/o then soy beef eggs and nuts. then at 4 m/o i cut out fish shellfish corn strawberries wheat and gluten.

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#21 of 24 Old 06-28-2010, 12:46 PM
 
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I would still have a scope done to rule out inflammatory bowel disease. You can have it and still have proper absorbtion. I have it in my colon and when they test my vitamin levels I am NEVER deficient, even at my sickest. My IBD also gives me bad skin too.

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#22 of 24 Old 06-28-2010, 04:41 PM
 
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Lydiah,

Unfortunately standard blood tests (RBC red blood cell is more accurate) are not necessarily helpful.

The body keeps the blood stable at all costs to prevent brain seizures and cardiac arrest... to to the point that it will take from the cells, muscles and bones of the body to keep the blood levels constant. For example, a person with osteoporosis can have perfectly normal blood calcium levels. It makes me sad that most mainstream doctors do not know this simple fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anielasmommy09 View Post
well shes not much of a napper but she only wakes 2x at night to eat. every now and again she will scream in her sleep which i have been assured is behavioral. from 0-3 m/o she would scream and scream in her sleep for a long time and i was freaking out i brought her to 6 different doctors and i was assured by every one it was behavioral or the first case of night terrors in an infant...

TY for the website.
FWIW this sounds like my DS and salicylates ended up being his big trigger. It is most certainly not normal.

Also for some reason quinoa is known to be a big problem for most allergic people according to the naturopathic dr. which did our initial allergy testing.
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#23 of 24 Old 07-02-2010, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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ok so now DD has a rash all over her face and ive been feeding her the same stuff,
so what would the SAFEST 10 foods be so we can do that diet?

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#24 of 24 Old 07-03-2010, 03:09 AM
 
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I am sorry I am too tired to read all the other responses but my first thought is that this is not really an allergy problem so much as a malabsorption problem. There is a quote from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet something to the effect of "whatever the person eats that they cannot digest causes them harm." It's not about an allergic reaction, it's about a food that cannot be properly broken down by your body, and so it lingers in the GI tract and feeds pathogens, and the pathogens (bacteria, etc) excrete toxins that irritate the GI tract. Or it could be allergies in addition. We dealt with blood in stool for over 2 years. I highly recommend the GAPS diet for amazing healing. It cuts out all grains. My daughter was on a whole foods, no sugar, GFCF, no top 8 allergens diet for a long time, and even then, she slowly started having more and more undigested grains in her stool. Grains are a problem, even GF grains.

I never noticed an issue with corn really but learned that it can cause leaky gut. In situations where you are niacin (it's one of the B vitamins anyway) deficient, the gut opens up to let part of the corn in because it can convert that part to niacin.

Strawberries can be very irritating to the gut and also problematic for people with overgrowth of bad bacteria in the small intestine (SIBO), which can result in mushy/whipped stools. Strawberries contain sorbitol (so do stone fruits) which the body cannot digest. Normally it just passes through, but when pathogens are present it can feed them.

I learned we had big problems digesting fructose. If this is true for you, then you might be able to eat bananas (fructose to glucose ratio of rear one to one allowing easier absorption of fructose) but not fruits like apples (frucotse to glucose ratio much higher). Strawberries are in the middle.

Ok, I'm just scrolling down and seeing some other things pop out. DD had reflux too. The regular GI specialists dont really understand this. This is a symptom of an underlying problem, likely that the liver is stressed out by having to rid an excess of toxins from pathogens in the gut.

The screaming is NOT behavioral. I really think it's indicative of pain.

Please get the GAPS book and keep an open mind. I wish I had done it sooner. It could have saved us so much suffering (health, my marriage, etc).
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