Linking Side Effects to Medicines - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is not actually about vaccines, it's about the development of contraceptives, but I thought it included some interesting insights into how complex it is to be sure that a symptom is a side effect of a medicine, and also some of the moral issues with placebo controlled trials which have many parallels with issues we discuss a lot on this forum. 

 

http://www.aeonmagazine.com/being-human/why-is-there-still-no-pill-for-men/


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#2 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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"The twist here is that female contraceptives prevent unintended pregnancies in the person actually taking the contraceptive. Since a pregnancy can cause some women significant health problems, the risk of contraceptive side effects can be offset by the benefit of avoiding an unintended pregnancy. However, men do not directly experience any of the health risks of pregnancy — their female partners do. Thus it becomes more difficult, ethically, to justify the side effects of hormonal contraceptives in men."

 

I find it interesting that mainstream science does not think this way about vaccines.

 

Rubella, for example is an extremely mild disease in childhood - but can have serious consequences for a fetus.  So why is it ethical for eveyone  to assume the risks of vaccinating for a typically benign disease?  Teenage girls should be offered a rubella vaccine if they have not had rubella.  

 

Similar arguements can be made for Hep. B, mumps, and HPV.   


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#3 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 05:35 PM
 
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The woman in the article had a heart attack, which is a rare adverse reaction to oral contraceptives. The doctors could not know for sure if the birth control pills were to blame, and yet they still advised her to stop taking the drug.

 

The same commonsense approach should be taken with vaccine adverse reactions, but unfortunately, all too often, doctors continue to vaccinate.

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#4 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But it's not the teenage girl at risk, it's her possible unborn baby. And we cannot vaccinate fetuses, and when the girls are pregnant it's too late.... 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#5 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 11:47 PM
 
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#6 of 14 Old 08-02-2013, 11:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

But it's not the teenage girl at risk, it's her possible unborn baby. And we cannot vaccinate fetuses, and when the girls are pregnant it's too late.... 
Yes, but taking this logic a step further, how does it make sense to vaccinate ALL CHILDREN to protect the potential fetuses of these teenage girls who will become women? That was where the previous post was pointing- doesn't it make more sense to vaccinate the at risk individual (and a potentially childbearing woman at risk of illness which would affect her baby counts) than to vaccinate everyone, regardless of whether the disease could potentially affect them, exposing them to risk from the drug?

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#7 of 14 Old 08-03-2013, 05:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

But it's not the teenage girl at risk, it's her possible unborn baby. And we cannot vaccinate fetuses, and when the girls are pregnant it's too late.... 

then how come they push the dtap and flu vaccines on pregnant women to afford 'some protection' for the fetus after birth?  

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#8 of 14 Old 08-03-2013, 06:43 AM
 
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But it's not the teenage girl at risk, it's her possible unborn baby. And we cannot vaccinate fetuses, and when the girls are pregnant it's too late.... 

I was advocating for rubella vaccine being made availible to teenage girls - hopefully before they become pregnant. 

 

Yes, it is the teenage girl who would be put at vaccine risk for a theoretical fetus.  

 

To a degree, a teenage girl is old enought to consent to a rubella vaccine or not, and many (probably even most) women would be happy to be vaccinated if it decreased the chances of rubella in a fetus.   Let's say age 16…I  would be comfortable with a person that age consenting to a vaccine.  

 

I just don't think the burden of rubella reduction has to fall to babies and males - both of whom are at virtually no risk for rubella, and are not part of the "pregnant woman gets rubella, harms fetus chain." 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#9 of 14 Old 08-03-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's a fairly new choice - I got rubella vaccine as a separate girls only thing at about 13. Might be its about doing it when parents (not those posting on a vaccination board, but the average busy parent) are bringing their kids in anyway.

Also it'll be about herd immunity to protect those who cannot be vaccinated.

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#10 of 14 Old 08-03-2013, 03:51 PM
 
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It's a fairly new choice - I got rubella vaccine as a separate girls only thing at about 13. Might be its about doing it when parents (not those posting on a vaccination board, but the average busy parent) are bringing their kids in anyway.

Also it'll be about herd immunity to protect those who cannot be vaccinated.

Rubella vaccine is not available in the US.  Only MMR or MMRV.

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#11 of 14 Old 08-03-2013, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is also the case now in the uk. I wss just pointing out that a public health choice to roll this out to babies of both genders was made fairly recently using my experience as an anecdote to illustrate that.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#12 of 14 Old 08-11-2013, 08:48 AM
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Moving this to Health and Healing where it is better hosted.


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#13 of 14 Old 08-11-2013, 01:15 PM
 
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Every drug works by poisioning enzyme systems, if you like the effect it is a benefit, if you don't like the effect it's a side effect. Every effect is a side effect.


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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#14 of 14 Old 08-12-2013, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't really agree this is better hosted in Health and Healing since its mostly about vaccination - but it's your party Cynthia. smile.gif

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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