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#1 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If this thread has been done, sorry :, I had computer problems and don't know if it went through.

I saw my gyno doc for a gyno problem (funny that!). He started giving me options for surgery and medication, as they do. My husband asked, "What is causing these problems?" and Doc said, "Hormones."
DH asked, "So, what is causing the hormonal problems? Let's get to the cause."
Doc said, "You don't want to hear what the cause is. No one does."
Dh, "Try us."
Doc, "Diet"

I nearly fell off my chair! A hospital allopathic gyno surgeon is talking wholistically to me?! So we urged for more information, and he talked about meat and hormones and all, that to be honest, we already knew - but hearing it from a doctor had just not happened before. They usually poo poo any idea that food or herbs etc can help in any major way. So the result was I am now on a vegan diet. I have been veggie, well, mostly veggie before with the odd fish (yeah, I know, you hate people saying that!) - but never full vegan before. I feel confident and optimistic.

Anyway, we asked him why he doesn't offer the real information until pushed and he said that people just want their surgery or medication and then just wanna go home and make no effort. Then the next one came out. He said, and I kid you not -

"The drug companies pretty much own us. We just play their game because the system is such that that is how it goes."

Now, this is all not new info, especially to us MDC mamas. However, a DOCTOR (and one very high up in the hierachy) said this to me only days ago. So I feel somewhat inspired that we may get somewhere with medicine and health. I wanted to share because many of us have had the same struggles with vaccination and the "system" and other such things. Keep the faith, mamas, it is only a matter of time.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#2 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 06:14 AM
 
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See a little honesty never hurt anybody.

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#3 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 06:26 AM
 
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Good for him. That IS nice to hear.

Olivia
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#4 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 08:52 AM
 
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Sounds like my DH...another "enlightened" doc! There really are some good ones out there, it's a shame that so many of them find it easier to play the drug companies' game, or just stick with the status quo, or both.

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#5 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 10:14 AM
 
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Very cool!! When I told my first endo doc that a certain diet helped with my pain levels, he told me "That diet would make anyone feel better"
after that, I never mentioned it again, to any doctor...
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#6 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 11:10 AM
 
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Very impressive! And so reinforcing for all our efforts!
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#7 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 11:40 AM
 
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Awesome!!! Tell us more what he said, Calm!!! Please!!!
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#8 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 01:21 PM
 
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I don't think this doctor was englihtened at all. He was willing to put the patient on drugs and go through surgery rather than telling them something simple like diet could change things. Her husband had to push the doctor.

The truth is that diet and lifestyle changes could cure a huge number of illnesses , but people are too lazy to make changes and doctors know that so they often don't bother. They assume the patient won't change and just go for the pills etc. Usually they are right, but they should **** be giving people the options.
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#9 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 01:30 PM
 
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Fish - I agree somewhat, but I think he cynically acknowledged that the pharmaceutical companies own the doctors. I think that influences a lot. But, despite the doctor having to be pushed, I believe calm and her husbands response may increase his likelihood of doing it again...we all influence one another.
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#10 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 01:45 PM
 
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Fish - diet and lifestyle changes can help with some disorders, but it is no cure for soemthing like endometriosis. There is no cure, period. Diet can help with the pain levels, and may play a role in developing the disorder in the first place. But nobody knows for sure what causes it. Most likely it is a direct result of environmental toxins, such as the hormones found in meat products, but there is also a genetic component that cannot be ignored.
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#11 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 02:46 PM
 
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Stafl,

naking

Not to hijack or go off topic, but I had endo (and infertility) for years. I saw several docs for it and it only got worse and worse. I had heavy, irregular and very painful cycles. I did a few things to 'help' it and possibly 'cured' it.

I went totally organic. I do 'Nourishing Traditions' style eating, but with a high emphasis on vegetables and some fruits. I grind my own grains and drink Kefir (milk and non milk based).

I had the ONE mercury amalgam filling (from when I was 13) that was in a molar tooth removed and did a 'heavy metal detox' with emphasis on mercury.

I stopped eating fish, period. I cut way back on grains, unless I soak and freshly ground them.

After basically not being able to get pregnant from the ages of 21 - 34 years old, and having terribly painful cycles, irregular cycles, my cycles first, normaled out to exactly 31 day cycles and I got pregnant within three months. Then after BFing solidly for a year, My cycles returned for 4 months (and they were light, regular and pain free). I got pregnant with second son, and am currently Breastfeeding again (going on 10 months) and still no cycle. I really do hope they are as light and pain free as they were after my first son.

I've heard having a baby can 'help' with endometriosis, and I'm hoping the dietary changes will keep me feeling this good. I was pretty much a vegetarian when I met my spouse, but could not afford 'organic' 100%. I felt good, but had the infertility issues. By adding in organic, free range meats, and doing the heavy metal detox, 'poof' I was able to get pregnant.

I know this is ancedotal, but wow, I know it helped me.
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#12 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 03:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm
...However, a DOCTOR (and one very high up in the hierachy) said this to me only days ago. So I feel somewhat inspired that we may get somewhere with medicine and health. I wanted to share because many of us have had the same struggles with vaccination and the "system" and other such things. Keep the faith, mamas, it is only a matter of time.

HOWEVER, YOU still had to ask him the quetion "What causes it?"

He didn't volunteer that until you seemed interested.

How many people ask questions of their doctors? Eh?

He was operating on assumptions...true, but I don't see any reason to shower him with praises for confessing something upon being pressed.

Big whoop.

When is he going to gather a group of like-minded MDs and open a clinic devoted to tacking things holistically, eh?

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#13 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 03:26 PM
 
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Sometimes I ask medical professionals holistic-type questions, and get replies like, "That is the weirdest thing I've every heard." (for example, when dd got a palate expander I asked if there was a diet that would aid the effort to expand her palate; all of you NTers know the answer to THAT question, but the doc said No, there isn't). I think it's refreshing when docs at least admit, "hey, there may be something to that," and when they go so far as to admit that diet can help I think it's worth applauding.
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#14 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Fish - diet and lifestyle changes can help with some disorders, but it is no cure for soemthing like endometriosis.
This statement is exactly why what he said is enlightening and positive. Doctors are responsible for our subconscious thoughts such as that one above - that we have no natural control and it must be synthetic control (such as surgery). That is one of the biggest evils the medical profession has done to us.

I have endo and a fibroid - the endo was operated on and removed and the fibroid left to grow (or think about later, kinda thing). I have a scan on thursday to see how all is. Most docs are fast to say exactly what Stacey said, but this doc lead me to www.drmcdougall.com (I think that is the spelling) and also said that it has been medically seen that diet (removal of ALL meat and fish and meat products) removes the hormonal problems that CAUSE endo and such like. They even see fibroids shrink, and endo be reabsorbed by the body. These are doctors too, not naturopaths or nutritionists.

He even asked me "So, you are willing to go vegan...you realise what a big change that is and that means NO animal fats or organs?"
And I said yes of course. This doc had cured his heart condition with diet alone - no surgery and he was about to have a heart attack, literally.

Even now, some readers/lurkers on this thread are thinking yeah, right and rolling their eyes. That is why it is going to be a big struggle - because few are willing to forgo meat products (entirely) for the length of time it takes to bring the body back into alignment. And not to forget lifestyle - breathing, less stress, sunshine, exercise etc. When someone does a complete turn around, the proof is in the pudding. There are cases everywhere of people curing "incurables" from making these efforts.

Oh, and some of you are right when you say it ain't all that - he isn't fighting on our side as such yet. He has come up against too many (almost ALL) people that either say, "too hard" or say they will and don't make much effort and are back in the next year for surgery. I know after 35 years in practise I would probably lose heart, too. But we are working on him...

Ps mods, sorry you had to move this. I wasn't sure myself where to put it.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#15 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm
meat and hormones
A lady doc in NH told me that removing beef and pork in particular from my diet - because of the hormones that are injected into animals we eat - could help decrease the fibrocysts (they hurt!) that were suddenly appearing in my breasts at age 27. That is when I went off meat, over 13 years ago, and after only a year of eating that way, the pain from the cysts went away. I am sure it is the cause of many more problems as well...

Glad to hear...
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#16 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah! Thank you Nurtured! I have fibrocystic breasts and only now (when you mentioned it) realised it is probably related. Ha ha! Cool. Also, to add, I did ask Doc about organic meat, and he said no, it is the hormones in the meat itself - animals have their own hormones (of course) and regardless of if they are injected with more or not, we ingest them as the hormones are in the organs and muscles anyway. Injected animals are worse, but organic meat is bad in and of itself. Chicken is a really bad offender, as they are often injected with tons of hormones. Fish confused me, but research is showing me that it is the particular fats in flesh foods that cause our own hormones to develop at a different/rapid/strange rate and type. I love fish .

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#17 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 06:52 PM
 
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That's great! I've come across 2 doctors this year who say they don't touch dairy b/c of all the bad effects of it.

Nitara's current Ped GI suggested pear juice for constipation instead of milk of magnesia, etc.

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#18 of 43 Old 01-16-2005, 07:05 PM
 
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That is a positive story. It is good that he admitted it. I don't trust most doctors because of what you mentioned--being owned by the drug companies.

My grandma, who is a heart patient, went to the doctor for gout (after I told her to get some cherry caps). He quickly gave her a perscription for an expensive drug (recently pulled from market) that had side effects like incresed blood pressure and increased risk for strokes! Two days later it was on the news and she immediatly stopped taking it, and went to the health food store to get some cherry juice. She has been taking the cherry juice for months now with no gout problems and no side effects.

Now it is widly known that people use cherries to treat gout, and yet a supposely educated doctor gave a prescription for something that was potentially dangerous and expensive. What is wrong with this picture????

Mom to two boys, ages 8 and 11, and one blessing due May 8th.

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#19 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 02:09 AM
 
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Calm> I love your story! It really IS encourageing. Honesty really does pay off sometimes. IF drs could spend time with patients and the entire process was honored and respected than perhaps we'd be in a different boat. I am hoping as you are that this is light in the tunnel. It is so frustrating for dr.s to be at the mercy or whatever you call it of the drug and insurance companies. Genuinely concerned dr.s that carry the intention of peoples health and healing in their hands will someday help many people and so... yeah we MuSt believe this

~Laura
ps: Calm>> you are absolutely beautiful ~what a stunning family!
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#20 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 09:22 AM
 
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Do MDC mama's really think people prefer pills?

I don't. I'm sure some always will no matter what... but from a former pill taker, dr listener person... going to a chiropractor and having him sit me down and say...

You have control over this, and it's never going to be 100% better until you... [insert all those dreaded healthy lifestyle changes]... was awesome.

I just see so many people become so frustrated with their medical care I really believe that they want to feel as if they have some control over their healths... but maybe i'm just being naive.

But good for you! Everytime someone pushes him into providing healthy alternative methods... he'll start thinking that maybe that should be the first suggestion out of his mouth
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#21 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 09:41 AM
 
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Oh, Indigomama, I wish more people didn't want pills, or a quick fix. Most people don't want to hear the truth, particularly when it involves making a lifestyle change that thay feel is too difficult. As Calm said, after years and years of noone wanting to listen to anything other than the popular hype, it's a wonder her doc even tried to tell her there were pther options out there!

Yes, her DH had to ask first, but we don't know how well he knows them and whether or not he would have finished his list of options with the non-medical option of radically changing her diet.

You know, every day I tell people that they need to work on their diet and exercise more, that they are at tremendous risk for diabetes and heart disease as they get older, or that with a few changes at home and at school they could really avoid ADHD meds for their child . . .and in almost six years I have had two people actually modify their lifestyles in a positive way that made a difference. It gets harder and harder to do the right thing year after year . . when everyone seems to want the "magic pill".

Sorry to hijack your thread, Calm. I am so glad your doc listened to you and your DH and offered you an option that you are willing to try. With more patients like you both he might even begin to offer that as a first option!

Hope you are feeling better!
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#22 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 09:53 AM
 
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When we lived in a different state we went to a doctor who pushed lifestyle changes...but he became frustrated because, he said, not 2 in 10 people were willing to even listen. He said most people wanted a pill, which would then have a side effect which would then need to be treated, and so on down the spiral. I'm not sure if he's still practicing medicine; I know I'd have trouble facing all that denial every day.
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#23 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 11:47 AM
 
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BTW, about cystic breasts, giving up coffee also helps with the pain.

Can't remember why. But, it made a huge difference for me when I did. (And I was living in Spain at the time and could get wonderful coffee. I used to go and sit at Meson del Cafe and get a Vichy Catalan and an ensaimada just to have an excuse to smell the air in that place. They roasted their own. But quitting coffee made a HUGE difference.)
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#24 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 12:21 PM
 
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I think you should write him a letter of thanks and tell him you appreciate his honesty.

Horomones, yeah...
Have you been eating organic meat and dairy prior the horomone problem? If vegan doesn't work out (becareful of the horomones in soy), you might try going organic that way you are not putting the artifical hormones that the food industry puts in our food to get a higher yield more quickly than natural.

It gives me a small ounce of hope for the medical community, but anger still is my overwhelming feeling. It is a sorry state of affairs when the drug companies own doctors and mal pracitce ins owns hospitals!
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#25 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenabyte
I went totally organic.

I know this is ancedotal, but wow, I know it helped me.
My sister is going the same route that you have, in addition to acupuncture. She is going to start The Maker's Diet by Jordan Rubin. I have been on the diet myself for a while and have had drastic improvements in my own health dealing with colitis.

I hope that more people begin to realize the healing powers of good nutrition.

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#26 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 03:36 PM
 
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The Magic pill...... goes right along with american consumerism and instant gratification.... we all know this... and simply being human in my opinion makes it very difficult to Not seek relief in faster ways. Put on top of that the misunderstanding that has prevailed in america for so many years about "natural healing', or alternative medicine... all lumped up into one category of "granola freak" as my boss puts it (She's a director at the Y too! )
I am so hopeful that the tide has truly turned, so that more and more people are getting wise ... it can only happen that way since sooo many people are suffering from side-effects and not truly healing.
Thanks again for going to the dr. with your husband and using teamwork in a natural and beautiful way to open the lines of communication, Calm
I dont usually go to the dr.s with anyone-- although if it's really necesary-- that is a good idea for anyone to consider. sometimes we are too intimidated or just plain think the dr. does not have alternatives to offer and just leave frustrated. however, if someone who can support us and be a 'second brain' (as I often need) comes along we might get further.

Laura
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#27 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 04:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigomama
Do MDC mama's really think people prefer pills?

I don't. I'm sure some always will no matter what... but from a former pill taker, dr listener person... going to a chiropractor and having him sit me down and say...
I know so many people do rely on, and think they have to rely on, pills. Most everyone I knew was on some kind of medicine at some point.

Not everyone believes in mind over matter and mind control. My sister, for example, lets the smallest thing just ruin her day. I get a headache and I place my focus on something else and it goes away. It just overcomes her. And she HAS to have meds.

New York did an article on the consumption and reliance on meds. And almost lightheartedly. It blew me away. I only take pills if I have to (read have not taken in quite a while). I prefer other alternatives and dealing with my pain, but not everyone does or can.

I do not believe all people truly people they have control over their health (remember people in our society sue fast food companies for making them fat, where is the responsibility in that?).

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#28 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 04:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sohj
BTW, about cystic breasts, giving up coffee also helps with the pain.

Can't remember why. But, it made a huge difference for me when I did. (And I was living in Spain at the time and could get wonderful coffee. I used to go and sit at Meson del Cafe and get a Vichy Catalan and an ensaimada just to have an excuse to smell the air in that place. They roasted their own. But quitting coffee made a HUGE difference.)

Yes, yes, true, it has to do with the caffeine and methylxanthines.

I just never drank coffee, I never got used to the taste of it. I am a tea person, and in general tea contains less caffeine and many have no caffeine. But if you are a cola drinker, it helps to give up cola. I don't drink sodas either, because they seem to trigger kidney infections.

If I don't pay attention to my body, and do what makes it feel good, it lets me know.

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#29 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Stafl told me about coffee for my endo problems (she has lotsa great info) and I admit I have cut it down, but I still have half a cup a day....oops. I really have to get off coffee, I don't want to ruin all my other dietary efforts...it's just....ooooh, that first morning sip....hard to let it go! :LOL

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#30 of 43 Old 01-17-2005, 06:18 PM
 
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Coffee The Greatest drug made naturally and consumed obsessively by most adults.... hmmmm... what are the numbers??? wow.... I love it tooo -Of course, I loved cigarettes at one point, certain people, certain clothes, drinks, cheese..... the list goes on... yet i cut down or cut out all of these and all for the better.
~Laura
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