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#121 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 07:58 PM
 
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You are right, charmarty, time for me to sign off on this one.

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#122 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 08:03 PM
 
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I remember reading somewhere that it's OK to get a PAP smear every 3 years, rather than annually, if your prior PAPs are normal and you get the ThinPrep type done. I think that going every 3 years might be a reasonable alternative for somebody who's EXTREMELY uncomfortable with the exam.

I think "they" still recomend a pelvic exam annually, and I intend to continue to get my annual GYN exams with PAP smear. What I'm suggesting is a possible alternative that's still well thought out, and not "digging your head in the sand."

One thing I still don't understand is the "routine" mammogram. It's been PROVEN that X-rays cause cancer- yet they recomend annual mammograms for cancer screening???? I can't help but wonder if some of the cases of "early detection" are actually CAUSED by the diagnostic screening.

I've got breast cancer on my mind right now because I went to my cousin's funeral this morning- she died of breast cancer. On the way home, my Mom mentioned that she's "overdue" for her mammogram, and I just didn't think it was the right time or place to debate modern medicine with her.

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#123 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaking of mammograms, my mother and my aunt got free mammograms when they were being offered at the U of M, and both were told they would need double masectomies right away. thankfully, they sought out second, third, and fourth opinions, finally finding out that because they were lactating it was giving false positive results. This was back in the 80's so hopefully it has been addressed since then.
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#124 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 08:13 PM
 
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OK not only do i think that you need to do a 1 year ck up !!!!!!!!!! but i also think that it is very inport. to know your own body !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i do know is that FOR THE MOST PART!!!! if you have cervical cancer or any kind of cancer you dont really know untill it is to late !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




so for me i think that i will go to my 1year ck up!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!

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#125 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 08:22 PM
 
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Ruthla, sorry to hear about your loss.

This thread reminds me...I need to get checked out. It's been a couple of years.
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#126 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Speaking of mammograms, my mother and my aunt got free mammograms when they were being offered at the U of M, and both were told they would need double masectomies right away. thankfully, they sought out second, third, and fourth opinions, finally finding out that because they were lactating it was giving false positive results. This was back in the 80's so hopefully it has been addressed since then.
How many women got mastectomies unnecessarily because they were bullied into surgery by the first diagnosis.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#127 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
You are saying that yearly exams are unnecessary? Okay. The docs around here have moved to doing pap smears every three years, as long as all previous smears were normal
That was a recommendation of the AMA twenty-five years ago. It is about time the doctors in you area got the message.


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. ...Hell, I could be checking my cervix as we speak!
When I was in college, the local Feminist Health Center taught women who wanted to learn to check their own cervix. That was thirty years ago. There is nothing new here...all of this has been done before....

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#128 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Why is everyone so bent on having "solid data"? ....
I agree.

Most of us have been in school too long and cannot change our mind on the basis of common sense. Someone has to pull up a study to prove their point.

Of course, someone else can pull up another study to prove an opposing point of view.

Something like pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

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Do you think cancer is only found in America? There is an entire world out there who have been studying and treating cancer for thousands and thousands of years.
Cancer has been around for a very long time. On the basis of common sense , I believe that the lifestyle most of us follow has made cancer more prevalent at this point in time.

Who knows what it could be... vaccinations, drugs, sunlight, refined foods?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#129 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EFmom
But the vast majority of people I know who have spurned conventional cancer therapy for alternative cures have died pretty quickly.
NO SOLID DATA HERE, but I know of plenty of people who went for alternative treatment for cancer and have outlived the doctors who threatened them with death.

Doctors do not keep track of the patients who do not follow their advice.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#130 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:53 PM
 
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First of all, the tools that they use ARE sterile, they are one use only (the brushes they use to take a sample) Plus, those "steamers" are called auto claves and they DO kill ALL germs, they are pressure cookers that even kill spores and endospores. And they are tested for germs; they put a special slip of paper in with all the tools that turns brown when it has been done right. If you are going to a doctor that is not using one, then I would find some one else. Also, cervical cancer is the easiest one to diagnose early and treat...Woman that take Birth Control are required to get a pap every year or else they will not get refills. There are benefits to preventive care, whether you like it or not. These are just the facts...
Also, if some one is going to clean out your ear, they look in your ear with an audioscope first so they can see your ear drum....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
It puts you at risk for infection. Also, the tools used are not always sterile. Having friends who work in the medical industry: after the exam the tools are removed and placed in a steamer and then repackaged. They are not tested to see if there are any germs or what not still on them. ie-resistant bacteria that is not killed by the steamers.

One of my many stories-I was in a doctor's office. I refused to let him check my cervix. I told him I would check it myself. He said it was dangerous. I asked. "Why would it be dangerous? I would think it would be more dangerous to have some stranger feeling my cervix, than it would for myself, who knows what to feel for and knows my cervix."
That really blew him out of the water. He agreed.

It would be the same as having someone else clean your ears. They don't know where exactly your eardrum is, while you would know and would not push something deeper inside your ear that would cause it to be damaged, kwim?
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#131 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
Doctors do not keep track of the patients who do not follow their advice.
I hate to be picky but NO SOLID DATA HERE either.

*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
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#132 of 302 Old 08-26-2005, 11:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supakitty
*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
but, "non-compliant" just gives me the heebie jeebies. If I chose to go against my doctor's advice, I don't see why I should be labeled as if I were a recalcitrant child.

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#133 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:02 AM
 
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It is done for safty for the patient and the provider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie
but, "non-compliant" just gives me the heebie jeebies. If I chose to go against my doctor's advice, I don't see why I should be labeled as if I were a recalcitrant child.
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#134 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide
It is done for safty for the patient and the provider.
How?
I've heard of "against medical advice" but "non-compliant" seems unnecesarily negative.

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#135 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide
Woman that take Birth Control are required to get a pap every year or else they will not get refills. There are benefits to preventive care, whether you like it or not. These are just the facts...
This is not true as I get birth control and do not need to have a pap every year.
I also know many women who get birth control without a pap.
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#136 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:06 AM
 
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Doctors are trained to know what a swollen prostate feels like. They do not remember what every one of their male patients prostates feels like so they know if it changed from last time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Common sense. A person who has never felt your prostate before is not going to be able to detect any changes.
The Prostate Specific Antigen test is much less invasive and a more accurate way of determining if you are at risk or need further testing, ie-a biopsy.
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#137 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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I agree with a lot of what MITB has to say. I do think annual exams are overkill. I think every 3 years is a much better recommendation. I took a real eye opening class on the history of medicine and women. Very interesting.

ON mammagrams: they are so often wrong. I read a cpoupl eyears ago about a new cancer screening method that is incredibly more accuaret. I think it involved lasers or somesuch. Anyways, that never took off even though it was less invasive and more accurate.

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#138 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supakitty
*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
How?
My medicine man does not keep patient records, nor does he enter it in some database.
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#139 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supakitty
I hate to be picky but NO SOLID DATA HERE either.

*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
Well, you are picky....you have been in school too long and you have lost the ability to think on the basis of common sense.

My SIL who gave birth at home after leaving her Female Pelvic Pirate of a Sob/gyn. The doctor never bothered to find out what happened to her. She called twice, and her call was never returned.

BTW,

...are you Big Brother?

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#140 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa
ON mammagrams: they are so often wrong. I read a cpoupl eyears ago about a new cancer screening method that is incredibly more accuaret. I think it involved lasers or somesuch. Anyways, that never took off even though it was less invasive and more accurate.
...but probably did not line everyone's pockets quite well.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#141 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supakitty
*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
Your post reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#142 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supakitty
I hate to be picky but NO SOLID DATA HERE either.

*I* keep track of my patients who are non-compliant.
That is really scary....what do you do that for?
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#143 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide
It is done for safty for the patient and the provider.

I don't see how it inreases safety.
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#144 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
...but probably did not line everyone's pockets quite well.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$

That would be my guess as well.

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#145 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 01:31 AM
 
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I have a dental checkup once a year.

I also have a GYN exam (incl. pap) once a year.

To me, I see no difference.

I do not perceive caring for my vagina to be so dramatially different than caring for my teeth and gums. My vagina is not something that needs to be tended to only in the privacy of my own home. It's a body part. It gets the same love and attention (and preventive care) as my teeth.
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#146 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 02:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
I am not just thinking about instincts, but the right to be educated and not ashamed to feel your own breasts, vulva, vagina, cervix, etc.

It seems like men are allowed to do so, but females are shamed about it, kwim?
My problem would be that there would be NO FREAKIN WAY that I could feel or check my own cervix! (or even much of my vagina)
When I used a diaphragm, DP had to insert it for me.

I have a freakishly long torso and comparatively freakishly short arms, so, ummm, yeah. I'm doin' well to be able to reach my clit and insert an applicator tampon and wipe my rear end. Anything more internal that that is pretty impossible for me! When I really contort myself, I can get a finger maybe an inch or two inside and that's it.

I read about women feeling their own cervixes and it always just amazes me. They must be blessed with nice long arms. :-)

They actually had to change the dress code for me in high school - the rule was that skirts had to be "fingertip length or longer when arms are straight down at the sides". Yeah. On me, that meant the skirt could show at least the bottom couple inches of my buttcheeks.
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#147 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 02:50 AM
 
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:LOL fire in july.

I can't feel my cervix most of the time, either-- fingers are quite a lot shorter than my vagina.

So I guess I should retract my previous statement about how I could be checking my cervix right now.
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#148 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 03:09 AM
 
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I think I fall somewhere inbetween on this issue.....if I have the issue correct. Long thread...

I do believe women need to be more educated and comfortable with touching their bodies and doing self checks.

I also feel that testing "can" be very beneficial. The key to me is customizing things for each woman, so that she is comfortable and her risks are weighed out to decide what testing/preventative things she should be doing by herself or with a medical advisor.

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#149 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 03:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huggerwocky
That is really scary....what do you do that for?
Wait, so, it's bad when we don't keep track and then scary when we do?

Here's the really super creepy way I keep track of my patients: If they don't show up for a colpo or a LEEP after having an abnormal Pap smear... I call them.
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#150 of 302 Old 08-27-2005, 03:47 AM
 
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Well thats even more reason why you need one. And it is true, I work for several doctors. Maybe you need to get a better one, not just one that does what ever their patient wants so they do not have to hear them complain

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
This is not true as I get birth control and do not need to have a pap every year.
I also know many women who get birth control without a pap.
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