Healing the gut tribe : September - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 139 Old 09-01-2005, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi ,

If you are new to this tribe please check out our original and previous threads :

http://www.mothering.com/discussion...12&page=1&pp=20

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=320840&page=1

We are mamas who are on a gut healing path for ourselves or our little ones through diet and natural supplements. The diet most of us are using is the SCD diet (again refer to the above link for explanation) or the Maker's Diet. Some are using the SCD with adaptations from the Maker's Diet, but still SCD legal. We're learning as we go and offer support and our experiences. To view some of our children's stories visit :

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=260393

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=313758

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=autism&

Healing the gut is SLOW , but it can be achieved.

I hope some of you may find this thread helpful .

Peace,
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#2 of 139 Old 09-01-2005, 07:25 PM
 
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Wondering if anyone here has had true success with either of these diets for colitis? I have searched for this here and found nothing.
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#3 of 139 Old 09-01-2005, 09:18 PM
 
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#4 of 139 Old 09-01-2005, 10:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
Wondering if anyone here has had true success with either of these diets for colitis? I have searched for this here and found nothing.
Check out the support groups, there should be a lot of experienced SCD'ers with colitis there.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...rt/support.htm
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#5 of 139 Old 09-03-2005, 06:16 PM
 
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Hey everybody, I finally found this thread, I forgot it was September already!

I think I found a cheap yogurt maker, it costs $27 on Amazon with shipping, but I might get one through craigslist for $9 (I hope). It's here if you don't want to mess around with your oven like me:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...arden&n=507846

I hope this machine will work with the 24 hour yogurt, I'll let you all know how it goes. I'm also going to try making yogurt from room temperature milk w/out scalding. In Japan we had some starter that someone gave us and we just mixed it into a 1/2 quart of milk and set it on the counter overnight. No boiling or anything required, and it always made great yogurt the next day. And we just saved a bit of the yogurt to make the next batch, and never had any problems with the starter dying or anything. It lasted for months. Wonder what the big difference is? I think the pasturization milk process is a little different in Japan also, the milk there tastes different.

I've been so excited with Micah's poop, they are yellow, pasty, and curdy. I am starting to come around to this whole SCD thing, slowly I have stayed away from breads, white sugar, and potatoes and it is not as bad as I thought. I think we will start after I get back from my trip this month. Micah has been getting really itchy after sitting on the couch (it has dog dander all over it) so I am hoping the SCD will help heal her of environmental allergies as well.

Looking forward to hearing updates from everyone!
Liane
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#6 of 139 Old 09-05-2005, 02:21 AM
 
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Yay for Micah! So glad to hear your good news Liane.

As for me, still waiting on the book, Amazon just shipped it out today. I should get it next week.

In the meantime, I've been using up the illegals in the house. Not all at once mind you! :LOL I've been trying to get into the habit of eating mostly legal foods, to prepare for when we start the diet. I can really notice a difference when I stay away from the bread, pasta and potatoes. I feel less bloated/stuffed

So far, DD has been pretty good with the choices. When she asks for something, I can tell her truthfully "I'm sorry, honey, we don't have anymore." She's pretty good about then asking for something else, or choosing one of my suggestions. Hopefully, this will ease the transition.

I can notice a difference in DD's poops when she eats the SCD legal foods too. We had some tuna and her bm's from it were well-formed but soft and yellowish. She passed them with ease. This is different from her normal bm's which are much darker, harder, although well-formed. She's usually constipated more often than not. Poor dear.

So the SCD may be a really healing thing for both of us. Amazing.

Loon , dh , dd , and twins ds1 dd2 **Thoughts become things. - Mike Dooley**
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#7 of 139 Old 09-05-2005, 01:55 PM
 
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Hello all. I have said before that I am going to be scarce as I have computer access maybe once a week, but I hope that changes soon! I was wondering...I started kiddos on the diet about a month ago. Two weeks into it we got allergy tests back and found that many of the things I was giving them, they were reacting to. It has been two weeks since I have taken all of the allergens out of their diets, and as a result strayed a bit from SCD. There are so many things that SCD allows that they can't have... it is a real challenge. That said, I have noticed a definite backslide. I want to attack the diet again and really do it properly (their guts are SO bad) but I'm wondering what to do about the allergies? Elaine doesn't really go into it in that much detail in her book. The reactions aren't severe do reintroducing the foods wouldn't really tell me all that much. I guess my question is that if the SCD really does heal the gut, do I need to eliminate the offending foods? The doctors said to wait several months before reintroducing them, but If I'm truly healing them, is that necessary? Is it possible to talk to Elaine? I just need some guidance so I can start knowing what I'm doing is "right."
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#8 of 139 Old 09-06-2005, 06:00 PM
 
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Elisabeth, It's difficult when you need to avoid certain foods.

You may want to try the lists, especially Pecanbread. The mamas there have children with multiple food allergies and may have much first-hand advice to offer you.
And of course, rant here with the tribe when you need to. We support you!

From what I have read on a few of the lists (Long Island listserv, Pecanbread, and Healing Crow), it seems it is best to take it slow when reintroducing food. Even though the allergies may not be true allergies and may subside once you heal the gut, I think you will need to take the time for the healing before introducing the food.
If something is still causing a reaction 2 months into the diet, try again at 4 months, etc. Good luck, mama!


As for talking to Elaine...sadly, the news on the lists is that she just passed away yesterday.

Loon , dh , dd , and twins ds1 dd2 **Thoughts become things. - Mike Dooley**
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#9 of 139 Old 09-06-2005, 06:13 PM
 
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Elisabeth,

I thought this info might be helpful. Elaine participated on the list ElainesChildren. While the list is no longer active, the archives are searchable for information. A quote from a message in the Pecanbread list:

Quote:
The ElainesChildren list archives are full of wonderful info about SCD.
It is the only searchable list where Elaine Gottschall participated.

How to use the search engine:
http://lyris.dundee.net/read/search/...laineschildren

If you are interested in egg allergy you type :egg allergy Then click on
"all". If you do not click on "all" you will get every post about eggs
and every post about allergy.
--

Loon , dh , dd , and twins ds1 dd2 **Thoughts become things. - Mike Dooley**
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#10 of 139 Old 09-07-2005, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everybody !

Sorry that I've been so absent. Bear had a backslide of vomiting again everyday for about 3 weeks so this mama had to go back in the research cave . Hard work does eventually produce results . We are now on our 6th day of being vomit free . Had nothing to do with the diet. Seems Sierra might have gastroparesis (literally means paralyzed or partially paralyzed stomach). She was vomiting undigested food she had eaten 8 hours previously despite taking two Houston's enzymes with meals and snacks and lemon juice 30 min prior to eating. This could have easily contributed to her dysbiosis. Her chiro believes that her subluxations could have caused possible gastroparesis. I found a support site for patients with this diagnosis. Very few doctors even recognize it as a diagnosis. Our two GI docs never mentioned it :. Sierra fit the profile perfectly. My resource for herbs that promote gastric motility led me to ginger. It also stimulates appetite. I bought some pure ginger extract from the HFS and she takes it no problem three times per day. It is SCD legal. I found some info that acupuncture and chiro are helpful so she started going for acupressure on Saturday. Enough about us .

Zanlee - Foul or putrid smelling poo indicates bacterial overgrowth. I would get the CDSA stool test to be sure on one so young. www.gsdl.com .On a SAD diet bananas can fuel the yeast overgrowth in the same way as sugar and white products.

Sassykat - I only bought one MD supplement and found that it was not beneficial for Bear. Elaine does caution against using the Primal Deffense because there has not been research to determine what the HSOs do in humans. The only other thing I would suggest is calling the company, but you may receive a biased answer .

Liane - YEAH ! You are journeying down your own path to discovering what is best for you and Micah. You are coming along much more quickly than I did. I hope that your yoghurt maker holds a temp better than all of mine did /

Loon13 - I'll be excited to see your post after reading the book. You seem so ready to "jump in".

I want to share what Elisabeth and I discussed last night. Selkie was doing great on the SCD ( eating had dramatically improved and attitude had also been an area of change). Elizbeth introduced potato back into her diet and her appetite diminished. She was wondering whether she had to keep all the offending foods out of her diet as she felt they were not "allergies", but foods that Selkie did not tolerate well. My best thought was to place her back on the SCD 100% since she had been doing so well and keep her on a diet free of all offending foods for 2 months and to watch her progress in all areas very carefully ( stool appearance and smell, attitude, amount eaten, sleeping patterns, and speech). After the two months (if all is going well and progressing) start to introduce only one SCD legal offending food at a time and give it for a period of at least 7 days before starting another. During this time look for changes in all areas that might indicate she is not doing well with the food.
Let me know if anyone disagrees with this .

Peace and happy diapers!
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#11 of 139 Old 09-08-2005, 09:19 PM
 
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Update on us: DS is currently raging against the night... I think we may have gone a little too fast on enzymes and it is either causing die off or hyperactivity or who knows what. His sleep is back to being total crap.

Just had a lovely conversation with Elizabeth tonight though

She is noticing tremendous changes in herself and in Selkie and Quillian with SCD and will pick up the 'Enzymes and Autism' book. We also discussed the fact that Rotation Diets are next to impossible with so many restrictions. But since SCD is predicated on easily digested foods that minimize further damage, plus probiotics and then maybe enzymes will heal the gut enough so that a classic Rotation approach to allergies/leaky gut is not the only answer.
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#12 of 139 Old 09-09-2005, 04:09 AM
 
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Hey good news here! Micah's poop analysis came back and she does not have any fungi or parasites. Yay! So we are going back to the naturopath next week and I will see what she suggests next. Since her poops turned yellow right after I cut a few more things out of my diet, hopefully she will do a bit better from now on. Should I mention the SCD to my NP? I know the book says to do the diet after "talking with your doctor" but how many people actually do that? Doesn't the diet just sound hokey even for NPs or people not familiar with the diet? I want to start after we come back from our trip. I'm not sure how it will go for 2 weeks without probiotics, should I try to find some that are ok at room temperature? Or just bring a softpack with ice in it and hope they stay cold? I kind of don't want to go 2 weeks without my CLO either...fish caps just don't seem the same... What would you all do? Micah's poops are so much better when I give her 2 or more doses of probiotics a day. And one more question, can you give flax oil to a 7 mo old? How would you administer it? She drinks water out of a cup, but that's about it, maybe with a spoon? She has some dry skin on her back and I think the flax oil would help a lot, what do you all think?

Hope your babies are all doing well!

Moneca, how is it going with the ginger extract? Is it hard for her to take?

So sorry to hear the news about Elaine...

Jane, hope you guys are sleeping again soon, it's so hard to be sleep deprived and worry about your diet.

loon13, hope your dd's constipation is helped with the SCD, it takes some getting used to, doesn't it!

tayndrewsmama, did you find the info you needed?

Jennifer, where did you go?

I finally got my head out of the computer and we went to take 6 mo family portraits the other day, I'll post a link after I get them so you can all see what we look like!
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#13 of 139 Old 09-09-2005, 12:26 PM
 
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Liane,

More good news! I love it!

Depends on your relationship with your NP whether you feel comfortable talking about it. I think emailing or printing out these links for them would explain it very well....and I think you would be doing them and any future patients a favor!

I know it's hard to feel like you are saying you know more than medical professionals. But the SCD isn't hokey, it's backed by serious scientific research. Dr. Hass was one of the most well respected nationally known peds of his day for his work.... and the diet was recognized as the cure for celiac disease as he was one of the original researchers to study it. Elaine Gottschall went back to school after her daughter recovered from the diet, got master's degrees in nutritional biochemistry and cellular biology and spent many years studying why it worked.

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ac_disease.htm

I would bring the probiotics in a small cooler pack, that's a great idea. Then just refrigerate them or refresh ice or packs when you get there. As discussed before, they don't go bad quickly when not refrigerated, refrigeration just prolongs their life and quality. I don't know exactly how long they can stay at room temp. It depends on the formulation. For ex. I use Yogourmet yogurt starter, and that's always been unrefrigerated and never had a problem with quality yet (and I've kept it in cupboard for over 8 months, still going strong).

Nordic Naturals makes single dose packets http://www.omega-dha-epa.com/productcod_singles.html

When DS was 8 mos old our naturopath px'd 1/2 tsp. of flax and 1/2 tsp. of cod liver oil a day. I just taught him to use a spoon, but you could probably mix in food too. And according to "SuperImmunity for Kids" if flax doesn't help dry skin, replace with evening primrose instead. Something about how kids process the oils differently, there's a conversion process that needs to happen with flax that epo doesn't require.

Thanks for the good sleep wishes
Last night he slept through (woke up at 6:30AM tho). Thank goodness it's now the weekend and DH's turn
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#14 of 139 Old 09-09-2005, 12:52 PM
 
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#15 of 139 Old 09-09-2005, 03:41 PM
 
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Thanks again for the info, Jane, I'll write down those links and give them to our NP next Tuesday.

Your pictures are lovely! You have a beautiful happy family.

Since we won't get our pictures until forever, here are some for now :

here

and here
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#16 of 139 Old 09-09-2005, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Liane - Glad to hear the good news . Great pics. I love seeing what all of you look like after corresponding for a while. I would take the probiotics and clo in a cooler pack. Two weeks can make a difference. Actually, I just mix a little ginger extract with a tsp. of lemon juice and an oz of h2o. She takes it from a bottle no problem. She has never had sugar and likes tart tastes. My ND actually knew what the SCD was.

Jane - OMG :LOL I always imagined you as this tall blonde studious looking hippie mama :LOL. I figured you had Luke's coloring. Wonderful family pics. I need to update Bear's site since those pics are almost two years old . Thanks for the Tropical Traditions link. My order arrived yesterday. Mercola also suggested TT yesterday. He's obviously behind you on the research :LOL.

Peace,
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#17 of 139 Old 09-10-2005, 01:52 AM
 
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Hey Liane, I'm here, just took awhile to find the September thread. Also, ds hasn't been napping lately, or when he has he's needed me to hold him, so I hadn't been able to get on the computer much. Oh, and we went camping last weekend, and I'm still tired from it! It was our first camping trip as a family, and boy was it hard to sleep on the ground after all these years! I'm getting an air mattress.
Where can one find good recipes and menu ideas for the SCD? I'm wondering how to make a well balanced meal for ds (and myself).

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#18 of 139 Old 09-10-2005, 03:11 AM
 
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Jennifer, here are some websites for recipes:

http://www.pecanbread.com/recipes.html

http://www.scdrecipe.com/

http://scdiet.org/

http://www.foodsubs.com/

Hope that helps!
Liane
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#19 of 139 Old 09-10-2005, 01:01 PM
 
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Okay, ladies. I'm sold. Haven't gotten the book yet (it shipped though) and I want to get started on a digestive enzyme. I'm hearing Houston is the way to go, but which enzyme specifically? Thanks for your continued help! I feel like we're one step closer every time I read this thread.
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#20 of 139 Old 09-10-2005, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Elizabeth,
Houstons enzymes are used by a good portion of the autism community on pecanbread.com I started out using Zyme Prime SCD. The SCD versions are made from aspergillus and do not contain any illegal carbs. After visiting pecanbread and healingcrow yahoo groups I noted that Andrew (happens to be an adult on the spectrum) suggested Zyme Prime HN and Peptizyde. I remember reading that Elaine respected his opinion in one of her posts. He stated that these two non SCD versions were legal despite the rice bran ingredient. He claimed that rice bran oil was the real ingredient. I called the company and talked to Dr. Houston himself to verify. He stated that they were in fact SCD legal, but Elaine had asked them to come up with a different formulation so people would not get confused and think that rice bran was acceptable for the diet.
If you are not interested in this brand of enzymes pecanbread.com has a list of legal supplements that include various enzymes.
Good luck .

Peace,
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#21 of 139 Old 09-10-2005, 11:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneca
Jane - OMG :LOL I always imagined you as this tall blonde studious looking hippie mama :LOL


No, I'm most definately short, dark and girly!

And I've pretty much been that way all my life :LOL

But I am studious looking when I'm wearing my cats eye glasses. (I'm also blind as a bat.)
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#22 of 139 Old 09-11-2005, 12:05 AM
 
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Hey Elizabeth

DS is using HN Zyme Prime and No Fenol right now and will start Peptizyde this week I think.

Zyme Prime digests everything. Peptizyde is for proteins (can replace the GFCF diet b/c it breaks down proteins so completely). No Fenol is for yeast or phenol issues. Phenols are in fruits and veggies and can cause hyperactivity, red ears and cheeks. I still don't know if DS has phenol problems but I figured I'd just as well assume he does and he eats a lot of fruits and veggies and of course there's the sleeping problems he has.

The thing is that I've read that starting enzymes in general can cause hyperactivity too. (where's the Exploding Head Smilie??!!)
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#23 of 139 Old 09-11-2005, 02:29 PM
 
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Thanks, Moneca-I'm on it. Also I wanted to say that my book arrived yesterday. Thank you Jane! Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions is a must read for anyone on this list. I am only a third of the way through, but WOW. I will post more when I get a chance.
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#25 of 139 Old 09-12-2005, 03:46 PM
 
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Well we went to see our NP today again, and came out with a prescription for nystatin. I don't know what to do--I've been reading about it on the internet, but is there any reason I should not give it to Micah? She wants me to give it to Micah for 5 days and then see how she is, our NP says Micah has a yeast overgrowth. I also asked about the SCD and what she thinks, but she says she has not read too much on it. She said it is ok for us to start, if I wanted to. Well, I was going to do that anyway, no matter what she said so I guess that is good news! Any advice about nystatin greatly appreciated!
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#26 of 139 Old 09-12-2005, 04:36 PM
 
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Is it the plain powder nystatin or the liquid with flavor? The liquid has a lot of sugar and totally defeats the purpose of killing yeast in the digestive tract. I've read that it isn't all that super effective. Maybe for a little one maybe it will be gentle? I think I also read that it is "natural" not a synthetic chemical (not sure what it is exactly tho).
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#27 of 139 Old 09-12-2005, 05:13 PM
 
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Today's Must Read Article

Be Kind to Your Grains
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Now of course DS and I are off grains right now... but I have no doubt that our eating oat bran cereal regulary contributed to worsening our poor gut condition. (Oat bran has the highest phytic acid of any grain, see below).

It wasn't until I received "Nourishing Traditions" for Xmas that I read about this and started soaking our oatmeal and rice to good effect. And previously I was vegetarian and eating a lot of whole grains... which I thought were healthy. As my digestion gradually got worse. :

Quote:
...whole grain and bran products are being promoted as health foods without adequate appreciation of their dangers. These show up not only as digestive problems, Crohn's disease and colitis, but also as the mental disorders associated with celiac disease.

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid, for example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is mostly found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc in the intestinal tract and block their absorption. This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may lead to serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often improves colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel syndrome and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

Other antinutrients in whole grains include enzyme inhibitors which can inhibit digestion and put stress on the pancreas; irritating tannins; complex sugars which the body cannot break down; and gluten and related hard-to-digest proteins which may cause allergies, digestive disorders and even mental illness.
Digestive and enzyme inhibitors. Sounds somewhat familiar huh?

Doesn't it make more sense that we have an epidemic of digestive problems now?

Someday we will be healed enought to fully eat NT because I'm absolutely convinced of its benefits. :
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#28 of 139 Old 09-13-2005, 01:17 PM
 
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Ooops, I accidentally posted this as a new thread:

I read about a new theory that Crohn's disease is caused by a bacteria, MAP, that can be transmitted by meat and dairy that is not ultra-pateurized. Since many here are doing raw dairy, what about the dangers? See: http://www.crohns.org/

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#29 of 139 Old 09-13-2005, 01:24 PM
 
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I know the SCD diet was originally made for people suffering from diarrhea, thus all the binding foods in the intro diet, but what about those who have the opposite problem? For ds and me, our reactions tend more towards constipation. What legal foods would be good to start with?

Jen 47 DS C 2/03  angel.gif04/29/08/ DD S 10/28/09 DH Bill '97.

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#30 of 139 Old 09-13-2005, 03:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
Ooops, I accidentally posted this as a new thread:

I read about a new theory that Crohn's disease is caused by a bacteria, MAP, that can be transmitted by meat and dairy that is not ultra-pateurized. Since many here are doing raw dairy, what about the dangers? See: http://www.crohns.org/
Much less concerned than I would be drinking milk from large dairies. Raw milk farms monitor their cows for sickness much more closely. Also, who's to say that the probiotics, lactoferrin and enzymes in raw milk don't kill this.

Crohns.org doesn't even mention the SCD, which has sold over a million copies, and has clinical research behind it, and thousands of people cured by it...not even a "new theory". So they are not exactly at the forefront of nutritional education.

I also think I read that ultra pasteurizing even further damages milk...

Reminds me of H. pylori, the bacterial cause of ulcers. Which is killed and kept in control by probiotics by the way.
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