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Healing the Gut Tribe: October

16K views 312 replies 27 participants last post by  JaneS 
#1 ·
There were a couple of things I wanted to start this thread with... but now I forgot what they were.


Maybe I'll regain my brain in a day or two...up w/ DS for 3 hours last night!!!
 
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#52 ·
Subscribing


I was wondering what all you mamas cook with as far as pots and pans and crockpots. There was a thread here about some Rival Crockpots containing "low or safe" levels of lead in the ceramic glaze.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...rival+crockpot

We still use ours, though, because I haven't been able to find anything else. My mom just got brand new stainless steel copper bottom pots because I was telling her about aluminum pans and how they are not good for your health. Are these good to cook with? I've discovered that I am really not missing the nonstick pans all that much anyway.

We're sort of struggling here and somehow having AF just screws everything up and I can't eat well. But we're trying.... I am so amazed at the willpower and strength all of you have to eat so well. Even though I know everything I eat goes straight to my baby I still find it hard every single meal of the day and every single day.

I read this thread every day for inspiration, you are all such good mamas!

Liane
 
#53 ·
are there any vegetarians trying the SCD diet? i was skimming the legal/illegal list and while i'd like to try it, between not eating meat and the foods max tested reactive to, there's not much left. most of the foods on our safe list are illegal.


here's our list of 'reactive' foods:
apple
avocado
bean, green
bean, yellow wax
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
cauliflower
celery
cherry
coconut
cranberry
eggplant
garlic
grape
grapefruit
lemon
lentil
lettuce
lime
oat
onion
orange
papaya
parsley
pea
peach
peanut
plum
radish
strawberry
tangerine
wheat
egg whites
cow's milk
barley
soy
 
#54 ·
Jessica and Lisa welcome to the tribe
. Glad to have you
.

Liane - We all struggle and I too find this thread encouraging
.

Jessica - Too cool that you and Elisabeth are in the same play group. You have quite a list of reactive foods
. I would suggest going back to the legal/illegal list on BTVC and writing down all the foods that you can have instead and deciding if you can make a go of this. That may be less discouraging than having the "no" list in front of you. You MAY also find that you and Max tolerate some of the forbidden foods as you progress on the diet and your guts start to heal. Elisabeth had also been struggling with this issue as Selkie also has quite a list of forbidden foods.

Lisa - My dd also vomits. I wanted to caution you about using prevacid. The docs put Bear on pepcid and then prevacid before doing a test to confirm reflux. Ended up that she didn't have reflux and the drugs just made her digestion worse. I stopped both on my own after two weeks. I later found out that decreasing the stomach ph can prolong digestion and gastric emptying because you need an acidic ph to digest your solid foods. Decreasing the stomach ph also creates a favorable environment for the bad bacteria as it is much harder for them to survive in stomach acid. I'm not saying not to use the prevacid, but to be careful because it could be helping with one thing at the cost of another.
Dd use to vomit 1-3 hours after eating so many things that I was convinced she was allergic to everything (dairy, soy, gluten, potato, eggs, avacado). I kept both of us on a rotation/elim diet for months with no progress. I was SO confused and frustrated. I started her on the SCD and found that she tolerated all (I didn't give her soy) the foods that I thought she was having reactions to. I still have not figured everything out, but she is much better. You can look at the September thread that has a link to her journey on the first post. I think that hers is the last one listed.

Nordic Naturals CLO lists 100% natural orange oil as an ingredient instead of "essence" of strawberry or peach as some of their other products do. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I would consider this legal and will continue to give it to Bear.

Peace,
 
#55 ·
Well, I just received copies of Nourishing Traditions and Wild Fermentation.
I warned dh last night that our diet is about to radically change! :LOL
Any suggestions as I embark on this long read/journey?
 
#56 ·
Moneca, yes, I've had the same thoughts on the prevacid (we were on pepcid first too) and I really want to try weaning her from it. BUT she was screaming in such pain without any meds, not just throwing up, and it's helped. Bear is a year older than Lauren, at what age did you start/stop meds?

I've been deliberately holding off on solids because of her reactions and knowing that there is less acid... and after the few bites we've tried, I'm glad we're waiting. I'm able to ebf her until 1 year if need be.

What do you guys on SCD eat for junk food/snacks?
 
#57 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by gracemommy
Hi -

I'm new to this forum today. I am currently trying to manage my daughter's eczema. She is 8 months old now and we have been battling for 6 months or so, her cheeks have been quite bad at times. I already have her on probiotics (Culturelle & Threelac) but am wondering if they are the right kinds... also, very interested in enzymes but not sure where to get them? Can anyone help me with specific product names? I also have her on Nordic Naturals Berry Keen cod liver oil. I am still nursing and plan to go to at least a year.

I am truly on board with the whole idea of "healing the gut" to lead to better, even great health for our babies!

Thank you, in advance!

Grace's Mom
Grace's Mom!

As far as probiotics go, that's a hard question to answer. I do think Culturelle is very good and well studied... and actually Elaine Gottschall of the SCD said L. casei is okay. The Threelac one I know less about... does it include a beneficial yeast? I just hate the MLM part of Threelac, so all their information is not indepedent, makes me wary.

DS was on Kirkman's acidophilus but changed to this Source Naturals one
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/produc...410.html?email

Karen DeFelice of www.enzymestuff.com recommends Houston's trio:
Zyme Prime - all around enzyme for carbs, fats, proteins
Peptizyde - for proteins, including casein and gluten
No Phenol - for breaking down cell walls of fruits and vegetables

http://www.houstonni.com/

Also Thropp's Elite-Zyme Ultra instead of Houston's ZP, b/c it's cheaper by the case especially
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ElitezymeUltra.htm

DS is on all 3 Houston's. We had to work up to it for the past 5 weeks. To be honest, I don't think I'm seeing fantastic results here that I expected.


Enzymes for me have been terrific however, and I'm on an el-cheapo one:
http://www.sourcenaturals.com/products/GP1111.html
 
#58 ·
Zanelee - You're about to dive into such a world of knowledge
! Both books sit on my kitchen counter with other cookbooks that I no longer open. Just soak it all in and don't get overwhelmed. Attempt one new item at a time. Just so you know, there is a monthly NT thread in the nutrition forum. Happy reading
.

Lisa - I can't imagine how hard it was to listen to Lauren scream in pain
. You know as her mama what she does best with. I was in a different situation since I saw NO improvement and actual worsening with the meds. We were only on each for a period of two weeks. I believe in my heart that BF is the best thing for these little ones because BM is so healing. I would still be BF if my stress level had not turned the BM to water. If you start SCD yourself and supplement with a good quality CLO, you may see changes in Lauren. If you can't do dairy there is an acidophilus supplement that Kirkman makes www.kirkmanlabs.com that is legal and will give you the probiotics you need.

Peace,
 
#59 ·
Moneca,

Good luck with that new MD please keep us posted. Do you have an appt? I think it makes sense that you utilize their experience as well. I really really hope he will be one that is open to your questions and your nutritional efforts.


That is the same change you noticed when you first tried SCD isn't it? Immediate improvement of symptoms. I know nothing about motility, so I can only assume b/c it's food that is easier to digest?

Hang in there mama
 
#60 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama
ok, I have been reading the SCD site, this seems to go along fairly close to what the ND recommended, stay away from the carbs! I had always thought that as long as they were whole grains they were ok, but ND said no, and it seems that SCD site is saying that as well. I thought it would be good to have some nice grains such as amaranth for breakfast, but I guess that is out.

I am confused though, should I do the diet? Right now Luke is off of solids, breastmilk only. I don't really have the strong symptoms like he does, just think I could feel better and is likely some unrecognized issues. It says if you have diarrhea or bad gas to not eat certain foods, does that mean I can skip that step. Plus, we are not doing dairy, so I am confused by that as well. And one more question while I am asking, the digestive enzymes and such I am taking, will that help him? I am assuming it will be passing to him as well. I don't know if I am understanding this anymore or not. Today I really struggled in the kitchen trying to figure out what to cook, so I ate a whole lot of turkey, as I had cooked a turkey breast.
The issue with whole grains is that they are rarely completely digested b/c of the phytate issue. What is not digested, ferments in the intestines and becomes food for the bad bacteria. If you have a healthy gut, the good bacteria keeps the bad in check. If not, it just perpetuates the "vicious cycle".

If you know you have yeast issues or digestive problems, it will be easier just to commit and do this diet now. I know it's hard, I've lived the long way around for the past year and a half... trust me... I wish I knew about this diet a LONG time ago and just did it then!

Also, the health of your gut will effect your breastmilk. If probiotics are in BM, I'm sure the bad bugs are too.

www.Pecanbread.com is the dairy free version of the SCD

I don't know if enzymes will pass on to him. Maybe they will b/c they do go into the bloodstream. But they will improve your leaky gut, b/c they will help digest food, and whole food molecules then will have less of a chance to pass thru your gut, into your bloodstream, and then into your BM.
 
#61 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by elisabeth
Has anyone here read any of Joel Fuhrman's stuff? This is my issue. I came to this forum after completely changing my diet due to reading Eat to Live . I really believe in his theories. They are compatible to SCD, and we have adapted pretty well. I got his new book:Disease-Proof Your Child yesterday and I'm about halfway through it. I feel so conflicted. For those of you who don't know him, he is a family practitioner in NJ who has successfully reversed all kinds of auto-immune diseases through nutritional healing. He has also had great success with allergies, asthma and bowel conditions. The only major place his "diet" deviates from SCD is that he doesn't believe that humans were meant to consume dairy. And I'll tell you what, he makes a very strong, scientific case.
I don't know anything about Fuhrman, is there any info online?

I too believe humans where not meant to eat homogenized, pasteurized dairy.

Raw milk is completely different...well absorbed calcium and vitamins. More easily digested proteins and fats. Probiotics, immunoglobulins and enzymes are intact, like breastmilk. One only has to read about Weston Price's research to know that raw dairy builds strong, disease resistant bodies and cavity resistant teeth. Several European tribes he studied ate more than half dairy and their health was perfect. Seems very hard to argue with to me.

However, if you are Asian, you probably shouldn't be eating dairy... the diet of your ancestors determines what is healthiest for you to eat b/c the body adapts.

I'd like to see the science... does he quote studies we can look up?
 
#65 ·
thanks ladies for the info! I guess I would know all about the whole grain issue if I had read the BTVC book or NT. I started looking at some of the pecanbread.com recipes, looks very yummy. I am so psyched that I don't totally have to give up "sweets." We don't have a lot of money right now, especially after the $200+ ND visit, so I was hoping to not have to buy the BTVC book, but it looks like I might need to do that to completely understand things.

Is the diet just that I avoid what is on the Illegal list, or is there something I am missing?

It makes sense that I need to do the diet, after you guys explained it, especially right now that he is 100% bf'ing, sorry I am a bit slow at times. The ND said the brain fog can be due to yeast, I sure hope so, I am so tired of having this horrible memory. I forget what I am saying in the middle of a sentence, it is horrible. I feel like I am just getting stupidier by the moment, and I don't even think that's a word....

Moneca and Lisa I hated to read about your babies throwing up! I cannot imagine how difficult that is/was. I am having enough stress here with Luke. Worried I am doing the wrong thing, worried he will not heal and I am screwing up by even trying this. Worried he will never actually eat real food. Worried that everyone thinks I am starving him....How do all of you ladies deal with that? I am just trying to go off instinct, but it is hard sometime.

welcome to the new mamas!!! Hopefully we can all lean on each other during this journey! Lisa you asked about snacks; the www.pecanbread.com site has snack recipes
and http://www.scdiet.org/2recipes/indexa.html

this one as well, I am just trying to figure this out, so I am probably not the best to ask, I have been snacking on sunflower seeds and fruits or veggies; which I am not sure if they are legal, I am still not up on all of this

zanelee, how is your dh coping with the changes? dh is going through this as well, although I have been fixing side dishes and such that are "illegal" so he doesn't feel too deprived, I hope to cut it all out shortly though, if I can figure out some good recipes to try. Dh has a massive yeast problem, he is such a dairy addict though! I cannot get him to give up the Nestle's Quik( I know that is wrong on sooooo many levels)!!!

Has anyone heard of enzymes from Thorne Research, that is what I got from the ND, man I hope they are good, because they were expensive (imo)?

thanks again ladies, hope I didn't forget anything, rambling on and on
 
#66 ·
well, it looks like SCD won't be doable for me right now


there's a page in the knowledge base for vegetarians that basically says unless you can eat at least 1 egg a day and cheese, you won't get enough protein. Since cow's milk and egg whites are on our avoid list we won't be able to do it. although we can do goat's milk products and egg yolks. i don't know how to get egg yolks properly separated from the whiltes though
 
#67 ·
Elizabeth, I've read both books you've mentioned, and I agree that it is hard to figure out who is right when both arguments seem so compelling. I think ETL would be a healthy diet if your gut was totally healed so that you could absorb all the hard to digest foods.
You really should read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. The stories of the people he visited are undeniable and totally inspirational. It will give you a whole new perspective.

I've been gone for a while, but I want to start the diet up again. I did it 100% for 2 weeks when I first started, then life got too crazy. My stomach felt great, and I even lost quite a bit of weight as a nice little bonus.

Have any of you run into the problem of vanilla? So many SCD recipes called for vanilla, and so I went to buy some when I ran out, then read all the labels and could NOT find one brand that didn't list corn syrup as an ingredient!! WTH?!
So, what brands of vanilla are ya'll using, and where do I find some that doesn't have corn syrup. Or is it just that you usually use such a small amount that it doesn't matter?
 
#68 ·
tweetybird, I noticed the vanilla that dh picked up for me had corn syrup in it, but I haven't looked a whole lot. I was shocked, I completely didn't realize this, why must they add corn syrup to everything? I was pretty sure the Mexican vanilla I bought (huge bottle) didn't have corn syrup, but I might have missed it. I have seen many recipes that suggest making your own vanilla, by soaking vanilla beans in some alcohol(cannot remember the type) but alcohol is probably illegal, I haven't got that far yet....
 
#70 ·
ok, forgive the million questions, but I was rereading the intro diet, thinking we might give it a go. It sounds to me from her info on allergies that she thinks that you should try the foods unless they are causing a serious reaction, as it is actually a problem with the gut and not so much a true allergy. I agree that I don't think the issues with my lil' guy are exactly allergies, but it seems like a lot on his system. Maybe I should try anyway...... I think I will ask dh if he thinks we can squeeze enough money out of the budget to buy the book...
 
#71 ·
Quote:
Vanilla Extract can be expensive and the brands you find locally may have illegals in it. You can easily make your own

Shiela Trenholm shows us how :-

About 1 cup of vodka
4 or 5 beans
A tall thinnish bottle.

Cut a slit down the length of the beans. Place them in the bottle. Fill with vodka. Screw on bottle top and let sit for at least 1 month. A few times during the month i give the bottle a good shake (whenever I remember). After 1 month I drain of some of the vanilla vodka extract through a coffee filter into another clean bottle. Then top up the original bottle with some more vodka. Periodically I add more fresh vanilla beans. I think I have about 8 - 10 in there now

From Pecan Bread support group

Here are some online sources for legal vanilla, which were posted by list-members:
Pure Vanilla Extract, made only with vanilla and alcohol, from Penzeys Spices http://www.penzeys.com/

Zeron Double Intensity Vanilla extract
http://www.zeronfinefoods.com/vanilla.htm
From the LI listserve

Here is the info on vanilla from Elaine's site, it is vodka as you said Liane!
 
#72 ·
ok, thinking again, I printed out the intro diet, will try this minus the egg and dairy, I will wait a while to try these things. I had egg today and he had diarrhea, this could be that he snagged the spoon I was using for biscuits yesterday, but not sure. I believe I have unflavored gelatin here, I guess I will just eat a whole lotta soup.
 
#73 ·
RE: eggs, dairy allergies etc.

At this point in our journey, these are my thoughts:
Unless you have done a elimination diet/challenge for these foods or had an allergy test to confirm the allergy.... and both of those can also not be perfect.
And you do have suspected yeast/bacteria problems with the gut.
I think you should rethink the "allergy".

I admit I don't know anything about allergy testing. However, I do know that intestinal flora imbalance causes diarrhea that it took us a long time to figure out exactly what the causes were. And along the way I thought DS had a lot of allergies too, which he didn't end up having, it's just that his whole gut was a mess.

Just another perspective from a mama who's trying to find our way too. Follow your intuition.
 
#75 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisa2976
Hi


Trying to read some of the old threads and learn more..

Dd is 8.5 months, no solids yet (one or two tries), I did TED and found she reacted to dairy, soy, garbanzo beans, pork, citrus, all melons, all red berries, and peanuts (at least so far that's what we know, I'm still adding foods...)

I had abx during labor, never made it to fullblown thrush although I had some symptoms, she had none.

Reactions to foods I eat include huge amounts of ear wax, spitting up (she's on prevacid for reflux too), red diaper rash, ring around anus, screaming, congestion, inability to poo.

My mother and her mom have dairy/egg allergies, my FIL has a seafood allergy. I wasn't given any dairy until 14 months (ebf) so I don't think I had the exposure to have the allergy (mom didn't consume dairy while bf).

Dh and I have histories of chronic ear infections/tubes, although we both have no known food allergies.

The more I read, the more I learn, the more it all makes sense yet I can't explain it to someone and I can't fix it. SO I'm hoping you guys can help out!

At the moment dd and I are both taking probiotics (jarrow baby for her, another brand for me), I'm avoiding those foods she reacted to, and we're eaglerly waiting to start solids BUT the few times she's had some she either throws it all back up 1-2 hrs after eating or doesn't poo for a week, both of which I qualify as reactions. She's had apple, pear, cucumber, and avocado.

Teething, crawling, pulling up, generally frustrated, not sleeping well (either of us) nursing every 2 hrs at night and every hour during the day. The reflux seems mostly controlled with the meds and limiting my diet.

Help!
Lisa!

I would think about discontinuing the Baby Jarrow and going with acidophilus only now that she is on solids... based on our experience and the information from the SCD:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...us#post3633799
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...kb/bifidus.htm

Start with cooked and well pureed foods only, no raw... they are harder to digest. Except banana can be raw as long as it is very very ripe with lots and lots of black spots. This means all the complex sugars are converted to simple sugars and is therefore easy to digest.

The red ring and other symptoms are definately an intestinal flora problem. And since you have had symptoms too, it's possible you have leaky gut as well, which is why you seem to be seeing reactions in her to what you eat. If your gut is not breaking down your food properly whole food molecules could be passing through your intestinal wall, into your bloodstream and therefore, into your milk... they are not supposed to be there, your babe is not ready for them, and that is why so many foods are producing reactions.

This is very hard to try to figure all this out with an intestinal flora imbalance/leaky gut when you base it on a "food reaction" theory. Meaning: "If I elminate all the foods my baby is reacting to, we will heal". It seems to be more complex than that. Eliminating foods still doesn't fix the problem. Like my previous message re: dairy/egg allergies, there could be a lot going on that is not necessarily triggered by one or two or a group of foods.

Good description of intestinal flora and the SCD diet focus on specific carbohydrates that are easy to digest and don't feed the "bad gut bugs":
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html

HTH! Keep reading and asking questions, you'll get there
 
#76 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by pbandj
Subscribing


I was wondering what all you mamas cook with as far as pots and pans and crockpots. There was a thread here about some Rival Crockpots containing "low or safe" levels of lead in the ceramic glaze.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...rival+crockpot

We still use ours, though, because I haven't been able to find anything else. My mom just got brand new stainless steel copper bottom pots because I was telling her about aluminum pans and how they are not good for your health. Are these good to cook with? I've discovered that I am really not missing the nonstick pans all that much anyway.

We're sort of struggling here and somehow having AF just screws everything up and I can't eat well. But we're trying.... I am so amazed at the willpower and strength all of you have to eat so well. Even though I know everything I eat goes straight to my baby I still find it hard every single meal of the day and every single day.

I read this thread every day for inspiration, you are all such good mamas!

Liane
Liane, I've been wondering how you were


I use stainless steel (and have exclusively with DS since he was born, which is why his testing somewhat high in aluminum floored me). Occasionally cast iron.

ARGH re: crockpot!!! I do use our Rival crockpot every once in a while, and to stew DS's lamb, and he hasn't tested high in lead at least.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, every day is a struggle here too. I'm sure many of the mamas just starting the journey feels exactly the same way as you do. I often think if I had just wised up long ago, we wouldn't still be here... but you don't want to hear my rants!!
 
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