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Sodium Ascorbate

73K views 563 replies 154 participants last post by  PuppyLove22 
#1 ·
Where do you buy your Sodium Ascorbate? None of our Health Food Stores carry it - Ascorbic Acid, but no Sodium Ascorbate. I want to lay some up "against the season" so to speak, in case of flu, pertussis, etc. Is there a good place online that I could order from? TIA!
 
#452 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mombh View Post
I was wondering if this is due to taking such high doses everyday for years?
did you also take bioflavonoids while you were taking the SA?
was their a particular reason for such high doses everyday? from what I understand, such high doses consistantly are more for the acute stage of something and then you would probably keep a low maintenance dose?
Is this something that is pretty common ?
does anyone know/think this would occur with the natural c like amla or acerola too?
what other factors need to be in place for this to happen??

thank you for sharing this info with us

there is so much still to learn ....
I usually only took 3-4 grams per day--that's what seemed to be my optimal daily dose. I took it with bioflavonoids every time. When I felt myself getting sick or run down, I would go up as high as about 15 grams for a few days.

The problem with oxalate build up would happen with any form of Vitamin C--all Vitamin C converts to oxalates in the body and over time can do damage to your gut (among other problems). I have landed myself in a heap of medical trouble because of this: leaky gut, yeast, weight loss, muscle loss, bad cholesterol, premature ovarian failure, neuropathy, red/swollen/tingling hands, depression, etc., etc., the list goes on. You can actually die from it--oxalates gather in the body, usually in places of old injuries (my hands, for example), and can even get into your bone marrow, heart, and other organs. It's serious stuff.

You can learn more by visiting the "Trying Low Oxalate" yahoo forum--do a search for "vitamin C" or "high dose vitamin C" for specifics. The forum is run by Susan Owens, a brilliant researcher and member of the Defeat Autism Now! Thinktank who knows more about oxalates than probably anyone in the world. I just wish I had researched this better before taking such high doses.

Kelly
 
#454 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pookietooth View Post
Also, I read that oxalates come from a high protein diet -- is this true?
Yes, meat can convert to oxalate, as can sugar, so I have to watch my intake of both. However, I eat a bit more meat now than I did before finding out about my oxalate problem (I only ate meat a few times a month). I would like to go vegan, but if I took meat out of my diet now, there wouldn't be much left for me to eat.

Kelly
 
#455 ·
I feel confused about this now. I was on the band wagon with SA being good. And I've read Linus Pauling's book (How to Live Longer and Feel Better), and lots of stuff on the internet. How do you sort out the information? Is this just because you took it at a high dose for a long time? But even many of the proponents would say that 4 grams a day is just a regular dose for maintenance.

Right now, we usually only take it when we are sick, but we take it more in the winter to ward stuff off, and sometimes I just take it just because I feel like I need it.

What do others think about this?
 
#456 ·
OT-- ExLibris, have you ever visited the vitamin k yahoo group? It's about oxalate problems in general, most specifically for AS kids with oxalate problems. I encountered it for a different reason so I don't have any personal experience with whether it works or not, but I thought you may be interested.

Momofmine--I'm at a point of going with what works right now. My son gets constant colds in the fall/winter (so far, anyway, he's only had 2 fall/winters to date) and he gets better, faster with the SA. Despite almost constant illness (sometimes it seemed like I should just count up the completely healthy days, I may be able to do it just on my fingers), the illnesses didn't progress into anything serious and there were fewer, milder symptoms than when my daughter was a baby/toddler. I've also seen good results health-wise, because the vitamin C is an important part of our plan to get the mercury & other toxins out (my fillings caused a lot of health problems for me and I realized that the kids got a lot bad stuff, to put it bluntly). Health/behavior improvements have been caused by daily vitamin C need going down. Once the kids are healthy, I will reevaluate and figure out what to do long-term. Right now I'm assuming I'll either find a bioflavonoid or decide on a whole foods vitamin C, but everything is subject to change.
 
#458 ·
I know a lot of this seems confusing, iam also just trying to make some sense out of al this.
So, we know there is overwhelming evidence for SA fighting disease/pathogens etc; I wouldn't question that, if me or my kids come down with something I don't hesitate to take SA.
I guess the questions would be aimed more at long term use, everyday maintenance etc; so, is oxolate accumilation a problem for everyone???
are their other co-factors? how do you know where/when you are at that level that you need to back down?
I have also read that SA can actually help with Yeast and leaky gut so how does it also cause these???
so many questions ?????

to few answers.....sigh
 
#459 ·
I posted a new thread but I'm going to post here as well, simply because I really need to know the answer quickly.

I'm almost out of SA and immediately need a lot more as my 100 kg husband has chicken pox so I'm going through 6 tsp per day. I am having trouble finding it over here in the Netherlands. However, I am finding lots of magnesium ascorbate, which is billed as buffered vitamin C. Can I use it as an alternative?
 
#461 ·
I guess any ascorbate you can get your hands on for now , while you order Sodium ascorbate. I usually get from Bronson labs, maybe they could espress ship or something.
My dh also had chicken pox as an adult, got it from dd, he was 30 yrs old and was really sick for a while there. wish I'd known about SA back then.
wishing you dh well and soon!!!!!
have you looked into homeopathics?
 
#462 ·
Thanks Tanya! yes, I just need to stick with what works for my family for right now, too. It is overwhelming at times.

I have used calcium ascorbate, labeled as buffered vitamin C also, before I knew about sodium ascorbate. I would just use whatever you have on hand, until you can get the other.

Hope he feels better soon!
 
#463 ·
Ex Libris -
I am sorry to hear about your oxalate sensitivity! I take regular SA, close to 4g/day, generally to just under bowel tolerance because it seems to keep me so healthy! I had cut back, but then I was reading Levy's book and I got into it again. I would like to follow up on the oxalate risk to myself, do you have some literature recommendations?
 
#464 ·
Hi wallacesmum,
I suggest that you read around on the Trying Low Oxalates Yahoo group. Susan Owen started the discussion, and she's a researcher with the Autism Research Institute and has been working on oxalates for many years now. You can search the forum for Susan's posts on the vitamin C issue; she posts relevant articles from PubMed to support what she's saying. Or, you could search PubMed yourself for how oxalates can convert to Vitamin C.

Good luck!

Kelly

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallacesmum View Post
Ex Libris -
I am sorry to hear about your oxalate sensitivity! I take regular SA, close to 4g/day, generally to just under bowel tolerance because it seems to keep me so healthy! I had cut back, but then I was reading Levy's book and I got into it again. I would like to follow up on the oxalate risk to myself, do you have some literature recommendations?
 
#465 ·
Levy says the data is up in the air - vit. c seems to help with kidney stones in some situations, but when it is in combination with other factors that cause a propensity for calcium oxalates to form, then it is an issue.

The calcium forms are more likely to cause this trouble, as well as a high-oxalate intake.

It sounds like your body was a bit of a perfect storm for oxalate damage - that really sucks! I hope you find it to be reversible.

I am going to continue to look into this.
 
#467 ·
Here are some articles on the Vitamin C / Oxalate connection. You can find them in PubMed using the reference numbers. You can find a lot more information at this Yahoo group. Join the group and then do an advanced search of "Susan Owens" as the author (she runs the forum) and "Vitamin C" in the subject.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group..._Low_Oxalates/

1. Chest. 2000 Aug;118(2):561-3.[] Links

Acute renal failure, oxalosis, and vitamin C supplementation: a case report and review of the literature.

Mashour S,
Turner JF Jr,
Merrell R.

PMID: 10936161 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2. J Am Soc Nephrol. 1996 Nov;7(11):2320-6. Links

Secondary oxalosis: a cause of delayed recovery of renal function in the
setting of acute renal failure.

Alkhunaizi AM,
Chan L.

PMID: 8959621 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3. Kidney Int. 2006 Nov;70(10):1672.[] Links

Secondary oxalosis due to excess vitamin C intake.

Nasr SH,
Kashtanova Y,
Levchuk V,
Markowitz GS.

PMID: 17080154 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4. Eur J Clin Invest. 1998 Sep;28(9):695-700.[] Links

Relative hyperoxaluria, crystalluria and haematuria after megadose
ingestion of vitamin C.

Auer BL,
Auer D,
Rodgers AL.

PMID: 9767367 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

5. Nephron. 1989;51(4):536-9. Related Articles, Links

Effect of vitamin C supplementation on renal oxalate deposits in
five-sixths nephrectomized rats.

Ono K, Ono H, Ono T, Kikawa K, Oh Y.

Ono Geka Clinic, Fukuoka, Japan.

PMID: 2739830 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6. Am J Kidney Dis. 1986 Dec;8(6):450-4. Related Articles, Links

Bone oxalate in a long-term hemodialysis patient who ingested high
doses of vitamin C.

Ott SM, Andress DL, Sherrard DJ.

PMID: 3812476 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

7. Klin Wochenschr. 1987 Jan 15;65(2):97-100. Related Articles, Links

Excessive myocardial calcinosis in a chronic hemodialyzed patient.

Zazgornik J, Balcke P, Rokitansky A, Schmidt P, Kopsa H, Minar E,
Graninger W.

PMID: 3560789 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

8. Clin Nephrol. 1986 Nov;26(5):239-43. Related Articles, Links

Secondary hyperoxalemia caused by vitamin C supplementation in regular
hemodialysis patients.

Ono K.

PMID: 3802587 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
#471 ·
I read most of the thread (skimmed a lot honestly). I was sort of surprised to read that sodium ascorbate is difficult for many of you to find. The vitamin C tablets my grocery store sells (Publix Chewable) are sodium ascorbate as the first (and main) ingredient. They are very inexpensive too. Sure, they have a couple fillers (like sugar for instance so it is chewable and tastes decent) but I can live with it since it is such a small amount.
 
#472 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
If I said that, put a link up please, because that is not what I meant to say, or meant to have it interpretted.

The iron balance is something that's a very fine balance. If you do a google search using Iron + infection, you will see that not enough iron, and you are susceptible to infection, and too much, and as you say, bacteria can have a field day.

Except diphtheria. Diptheria toxin cannot make mayhem until the iron is depleted, so there are "exceptions" to the rule. I suspect the same may also apply to other bacteria which are "operated" by a virus called bacteriophages, which switch on toxin producing genes as well, but I can't find much on the others.

I guess it depends on the person. This year is the first year I've missed three periods, so had the gaps stretch out, and its the first year where I've finally lost the tag of chronic anaemia.

If there is anything bacterial around, I'm a moving target, but then, with my immune system, that's probably not surprising.

Yes, I agree with that. And another reason not to use formula which has a much higher protein index than breastmilk, and that feeds the badies too.

Do you have an updated map of selenium deficiency in USA? This is the only one I could find, and its out of date. If you know where there is a newer one, can you post it?

http://www.saanendoah.com/map1.html

Yeah, but I couldn't eat enough mustard to do me much good.

All our soils are deficient so I take 150 mcgs a day, when I can't get brazil nuts. Ones that are designed for our soil deficiencies, not yours...If you've read the nutrition/immunology thread, you will know that I hammer minerals


Yes, but it might not just be yeast, but also some of the other anaerobes, and lack of sulphur...
Where does that come from? It took my midwife three contractions with a brand new pair of scissor, which were blunted to cut through the leather than was my amniotic sac with the last labour? Yes, I bled more, but that was from the damage they did in my uterus in the first birth.

That is pretty stupid really, because vitamin C is the base foundation of glucosamine absorption and collagen, and skin protection. Without vitamin C, none of those three things will have good strength. Therefore, for the natural birth people to suggest that, flies in the face of all the known biochemistry that goes along with vitamin C.

:
I have ascorbic acid which is yucky to taste. So have added the same amount of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) as vitamin c & when the water stops fizzing, drink it down easily. Thanks to everyone for this thread!
 
#473 ·
I haven't been able to find anything to figure out how to know whether one is susceptible to oxalate build-up, except that anyone with renal problems should probably avoid SA or find a medical professional to work with. I do notice that a lot of the literature pointing to oxalate damage from Vit. C references ascorbic acid, not SA, and there is always some background that is not complete (how could one possibly assess a comprehensive background in the ER with a new admit who is under stress?).

So, one thing I have been looking at is the way SA works in the body. One of it's most powerful characteristics is that it is an antioxidant, so adding lots of antioxidant whole foods and reducing SA intake might be one way of reducing exposure for those concerned.
 
#474 ·
I don't think they distinguish between SA and ascorbic acid in the medical literature -- ascorbic acid just means vitamin C. I have heard that people with yeast overgrowth are susceptible to oxalate buildup.
 
#475 ·
I agree that they don't distinguish, and I have heard that even Klenner was sloppy about this in his writing. However, many people that I know who take vit. c don't know about SA, and many hfs don't carry it. Therefore, I don't think it is safe to assume that an admit was taking one or the other, if the lit doesn't specify. I don't know that it would be a factor either way with oxalates, though.
 
#476 ·
Awesome thread I have read every page!
MT are you still around??

I have a couple questions if anyone is still following this thread...

*When I go to buy some SA, will it have citrus bioflavonoids in it already, or do I need to buy those seperate aswell?

*Which form of SA is best, tablet, liquid or powder?

*Should we be taking SA throughout the day, or just once in the morning and once at night is ok? -Because it becomes inactive in the body after 30 minutes, so it won't all get absorbed if you take a large amount all in one go?

*Does heat really damage SA? This thread said it does, but then the person who made that claim went on to say they mix it with HOT WATER...so Im unsure?
 
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