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Women's Health > Sodium Ascorbate
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 07:45 AM 02-07-2006
Translation:

Quote:
That is incorrect. The physiology of ester c is that for you to get to bowel tolerance you will have to take twice as much, and the mechanics of that is that the calcium is sheared off of the ascorbate, but for the ascorbate to be absorbed the body utilises localised sodium from any source nearby, to split the ascorbate into two molecules, one which the body uses, and the other which is excreted. BUT, before the ascorbate is utilised, the body uses some of it to chelate out the calcium, which when free in the body is dangerous to the body.

Far from being absorbed slower, the reason you need MORE Ester C to get to bowel tolerance is that the body has to divert some ascorbate to get the calcium out, so less is able to be used by the body.
I'll try, but it might make it worse.

Ascorbate is split in two by sodium.

One part is excreted, one used.

If you use calcium ascorbate, the calcium shears off.

The ascorbate picks up sodium to split so it can be used.

But because calcium shouldn't be there in the free form, some ascorbate is used to take the calcium out the body.

This leaves you with about half the amount of ascorbate you put in originally.

If you used sodium ascorbate your body could use all of the ascorbate.

So by using calcium ascorbate, in order to get as much as you would need by using sodium ascorbate, you have to take twice as much.

Does that make sense, or is it mud?

sunshinestarr's Avatar sunshinestarr 08:48 AM 02-07-2006
I think I'm starting to pick up what you're putting down, MT.
Thanks!
guestmama9911's Avatar guestmama9911 05:01 PM 02-07-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by alisaterry
If I take all this myself, it will get to my cutie patootie through my breast milk, correct? He's only 3 months old.
Can anyone answer this for me? I would like to be certain DS is getting enough vit C and vit A but he's just a little guy. Will he get enough from me or should I actually get him some liuquid vitamins to take?
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 06:04 PM 02-07-2006
Whether he gets enough from you, depends on whether you take enough for yourself in terms of daily needs, and there is a bit left over for him.

You can tell over time, by how easily they teethe and how many infections they get. But vitamin C isn't something that works just on its own. That's why the nutrition thread. It has to be in context of the whole...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
Besides affecting stomach acidity and to provide the sodium ion, is there any other reason why ascorbate acid is not recommended? And why is stomach acidity so important (other than it breaks down our food)...to prevent ulcers, etc? If my children seem to be tolerating the ascorbic acid I give them daily, should I still switch to sodium ascorbate? For example, my oldest son (almost 6 yo and 67 pounds), receives approx. 3,000 mgs. of C daily when healthy and we up it when he is sick to about 6,500 to bowel tolerance. He takes a host of other supplements and eats 95% organic......am I killing his stomach? If he doesn't seem bothered by it is it because the damage hasn't been done yet (as in I would be seeing physical symptoms to gauge from), or because he likely is receiving the balance he needs of baking soda/sodium ion in his diet? I believe you said equal ratios. 1 part ascorbic acid to 1 part sodium bicarbonate? I believe he receives his sodium ion needs via iodine and calcium citrate. Is there a balance (ratio) equation for sodium ions in relation to the appropriate doses of ascorbic acid, and bicarbonate?
Can you explain to me how he gets his sodium from iodine and calcium citrate?

Anyone can take ascorbic acid provided their system is alkaline and they get enough sodium in their diet.

Whether you get salt with iodine, depends on whether you use iodised salt, which I don't, because I rely on iodine in foods. Theoretically, if a person is getting enough salt with a bit to spare, they will have enough for the ascorbate to rob, to use to split into two parts.

But if like me, you don't normally salt your diet, then you'd have to eat high salt foods, to allow for the ascorbate.

The beauty to me of sodium ascorbate is that you don't have to think about it.

It goes into your body, and there are no other biochemical processed diverted or interfered with, because the ascorbate has what it needs with it, to do the job right there on the spot.

It is to me, biochemically more efficient to use it that way.
guestmama9911's Avatar guestmama9911 07:07 PM 02-07-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Whether he gets enough from you, depends on whether you take enough for yourself in terms of daily needs, and there is a bit left over for him.

You can tell over time, by how easily they teethe and how many infections they get. But vitamin C isn't something that works just on its own. That's why the nutrition thread. It has to be in context of the whole...
Thank you, MT

I'll be digesting the Nutrition Thread later.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 11:58 PM 02-07-2006
alisaterry, all I do is take info from one pile and shove it to another; call me the unholy shovel if you like, but quit the bowing, okay?

Any iriot can shovel stuff.
guestmama9911's Avatar guestmama9911 02:41 AM 02-08-2006
OK. You are an Unholy Shovel. Let's turn THAT into a smilie!
Mountain Chick's Avatar Mountain Chick 08:11 PM 02-11-2006
:

After reading all the labels at my hfs for bioflavinoids, I regret to inform you that I didn't find what I was looking for. And never found it in powder form anywhere...not even online!

Sorry ladies.
heket's Avatar heket 09:08 PM 02-11-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Anyone can take ascorbic acid provided their system is alkaline and they get enough sodium in their diet.

Whether you get salt with iodine, depends on whether you use iodised salt, which I don't, because I rely on iodine in foods. Theoretically, if a person is getting enough salt with a bit to spare, they will have enough for the ascorbate to rob, to use to split into two parts.
I think these last few posts have cleared up an immense amount for me! This maybe a nutrition thread question, but is there some way of checking for the alkaline in your system? We use salt (in moderation), so I'm beginning to think that we're ok on that aspect. I've been wanting to improve our alkaline intake, but I'm not sure how I know what my system is like let alone improve upon it.

And while anyone can shovel stuff, not everyone is willing or able to do it. Hence all the bowing smilies (which are very well deserved. ) Thank you for enlightening and inspiring me to learn more.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 01:05 AM 02-12-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Chick
:

After reading all the labels at my hfs for bioflavinoids, I regret to inform you that I didn't find what I was looking for. And never found it in powder form anywhere...not even online!

Sorry ladies.
Can someone else help out here in USA? If I, from a banana republic backwater hanging off the bottom of the earth have always been able to get powdered bioflavinoids, it would be amazing to me to find that in the whole of USA, no-one makes it...
MyLittleWonders's Avatar MyLittleWonders 01:19 AM 02-12-2006
I can't help - I ended up ordering online from www.iherb.com and could only find them in tablet form. So, each morning I grind them up between two spoons (I need one of those pill grinder things ... the clay cup thing and the thing you hold in your hand - what in the world is that called?) and add to my smoothie.
chlobo's Avatar chlobo 01:20 AM 02-12-2006
momto l&a's Avatar momto l&a 01:34 AM 02-12-2006
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 01:35 AM 02-12-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Chick
After reading all the labels at my hfs for bioflavinoids, I regret to inform you that I didn't find what I was looking for. And never found it in powder form anywhere...not even online!
It's spelled "bioflavonoids" maybe that is why you are having trouble.

http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/bioflavonoid.html
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=CL-1935
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=BB-1344
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=NT-1043
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=NT-1041

I know Solgar, TwinLab and Country Life makes them too, which should be in well stocked hf stores.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 01:38 AM 02-12-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders
(I need one of those pill grinder things ... the clay cup thing and the thing you hold in your hand - what in the world is that called?) and add to my smoothie.
mortar and pestle?

Iherb also has the NOW brand in caps that you can just open, I like that store, fast shipping.
Threefold's Avatar Threefold 02:41 AM 02-12-2006
Okay, so the best I've been able to find and get my family to take daily is the TRader Joes "Chewable Oranges and C", which I've always assumed to be the same as the Natural; Factors. It has 500mg ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate, though it doesn't break down how much of each and 25 mg bioflavonoid complex (also doesn't give details). Are these ratios correct? Is this an acceptable supplement. If not, and I get the powdered bioflavonoids, what is the ratio of the bioflavonoids:sodium ascorbate ?
Thanks!
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 06:56 AM 02-12-2006
Normally its 1 part bioflavonoids, to 5 sodium ascorbate.
patty_g's Avatar patty_g 10:28 AM 02-12-2006
Ok, so I recently received my order from the US - 3 lbs of SA and a bottle of bioflavonoids in capsule form. The problem I have now, is that the bioflavonoids taste EXACTLY like a really sour grapefruit and no one will take it. This from kids who were taking mint-flavored fish oil by the spoonful. I have tried putting it in juice, yogurt, with honey. So far, no go. I am open to suggestions. Please!
Mountain Chick's Avatar Mountain Chick 04:59 PM 02-12-2006
Just to clarify, orginally I said my hfs had Bioflavonoids for sale...but when I went back and actually read the labels, they all included Vitamin C. I don't want Vit. C with them because I am planning on adding my SA to it.

Actually I just wanted Bioflavonoid powder, not tablets, and not capsules, so a big thank you to chlobo for posting this link http://www.koshervitamins.com/shop/s...sp?Item_ID=437

I used google when I was looking (and spelled it correctly ) and found these two also, but I would need to buy both (can you say expensive!) and mix them to get the complete complex: http://www.iherb.com/rutin.html & http://www.iherb.com/hesperidin.html All the rest are pills and have vitamin C or other things mixed in them. If you take a good look at the google link provided by momto l&a you'll see what I mean.

I just want my little plastic baggie of white powder!
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 09:45 PM 02-12-2006
Patty, if they can swallow capsules, just give it to them that way. If not, whack it up in a fruit smoothie?
chlobo's Avatar chlobo 11:22 PM 02-12-2006
Since the Swanson's Bioflavonoids are capsules, I assume you can just empty the contents & mix with something. It's got to be powder inside, right?
Kundalini-Mama's Avatar Kundalini-Mama 12:09 AM 02-13-2006
Question, I've been doing some research on bioflavonoids and I'm finding that they are abundant in citrus. Well, we take our SA in organic OJ once a day (or a bunch of small doses throughout the day if we are fighting something), so would that provide the 1:5 ratio needed of bio:SA?
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 12:40 AM 02-13-2006
I don't know. I take mine in orange juice too, but still add the bioflavinoids. The OJ is mainly to conceal the taste, and cover my bases as to other nutrients as well...
Threefold's Avatar Threefold 01:57 AM 02-13-2006
Twin Labs also makes a bioflavonoid capsule (500mg). I have some on special order from the hfs. In order to get the 5:1 ratio in the correct amounts for my kiddos (who don't need 2500mg of SA on a daily basis), I am planning to measure and premix my powders. Is there any reason we can't do this?
My ds 5 drinks his in a small amount of oj, but my dd 18 mo, flat out refuses that, but she will let me rub the powders on the inside of her cheek. Is there any reason not to do it this way for her?

So many questions! I think I've learned more from this thread and the nutrition one than I did in my stint in grad school!
Vicky2005's Avatar Vicky2005 06:21 PM 02-13-2006
I have been trying to find out if heat kills vitamin C.
For some reason it is stuck in my head that heat will kill vit c. Can somone tell me please whether I am wrong or correct?
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 11:05 PM 02-13-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky2005
I have been trying to find out if heat kills vitamin C.
For some reason it is stuck in my head that heat will kill vit c. Can somone tell me please whether I am wrong or correct?
Absolutely does.

The amount of vitamin C killed by pasteurizing milk is equal to the entire citrus crop in the U.S. (source The Untold Story of Milk by Ron Schmid ND)
lucyem's Avatar lucyem 12:34 AM 02-14-2006
OK I am breastfeeding. If I have a vitamin (regular daily) he screams all afternoon. If I have a vitamin c he screams all afternoon. Juice is on the list I cannot drink, even apple makes him colicky. Just now at 5-6 months I can get away with a cup of grape juice now and then. Though grape juice gets to me. Fruit flavoured waters also cause problems. Anyway how can I get vitamin c into our bodies without causing him discomfort? Sodium Ascorbate you all mention in this thread as being what to get. Could that make a difference?
Pookietooth's Avatar Pookietooth 05:21 AM 02-14-2006
If taking ascorbic acid is bad, does that mean taking supplemental HCL, or vinegar, is bad too? My naturopath has me taking Betain HCL capsules.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 08:41 AM 02-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
If taking ascorbic acid is bad, does that mean taking supplemental HCL, or vinegar, is bad too? My naturopath has me taking Betain HCL capsules.
Do a google search, research it.. ask her why, and then decide.

Nothing wrong with cider vinegar. It helps keep the body less acid.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 08:47 AM 02-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucyem
OK I am breastfeeding. If I have a vitamin (regular daily) he screams all afternoon. If I have a vitamin c he screams all afternoon. Juice is on the list I cannot drink, even apple makes him colicky. Just now at 5-6 months I can get away with a cup of grape juice now and then. Though grape juice gets to me. Fruit flavoured waters also cause problems. Anyway how can I get vitamin c into our bodies without causing him discomfort? Sodium Ascorbate you all mention in this thread as being what to get. Could that make a difference?
I don't advocate supplementing as a normal course of events. You are short changing yourself if you do. The key to growing good babies in utero and outside utero via breastmilk is getting your nutrition right at least 18 months before conception.

Traditionally, indigenous people have the concept of special diets for women planning to become pregnant, during pregnancy and afterwards... why is it we have lost that?

If your diet is superb then you will need minimal supplementation. If your diet is not, then revamp it. But I do NOT advocate a vitamin supplement. The foundation of good health isn't so much vitamins as minerals.

They should be any pregnant/nursing woman's concern.

So the plan of action should always be a top diet.

Then, if like me you have an immunodeficiency, then supplement. But rarely will you need to supplement in a way that causes a baby problems.

Some people supplement so that they can have their cake and eat it i.e. eat junk and get the extra in tablets. It never works that way actually. All they are doing is shortchanging everyone.

So, in your case, particularly as your baby is seemingly sensitive, I would start with your diet.

If you feel its fine, just drop your supplements.

Have you studied the nutrition immunity thread?
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