Healing the Gut Tribe ~ February - Page 14 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-26-2006, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
Does anyone have any or know of any articles re: breastmilk *still* being best even for babies w/food intolerances?

My mother, MIL, AIL, are wondering why I'm still nursing while dd is so sensitive to what I am eating. Just want to have some research in my corner so to speak.
What is your child reacting to?

My older son was reacting to everything for some time, so I would tell someone to find me a "dairy-free, corn-free, coconut-free, soy-free" formula, and I would consider it. (which i wouldn't ). But the fact of the matter was that no ABM would meet his needs.

Off to search ingredients of this Pro-Sobe crap, I mean drink.
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Old 02-26-2006, 10:46 PM
 
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We use homeopathy for EVERYTHING. It's great in a gut healing program. Homeopathy can create a real shift, plus it's based on the whole idea is that you shouldn't have any sensitivities to begin with. I really believe that you need a skilled homeopath at your disposal though. I've said it before...I've used it for years. I can help almost anyone with acute conditions, which gut damage is not. I know enough to defer to a doc for constitutional stuff. If you try to treat acutely you're just going to end up chasing symptoms and not truly treating homeopathically.
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Old 02-26-2006, 11:50 PM
 
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I'm just thinking outloud here, trying to put puzzle pieces together.

Okay, so how do I figure out what it is. I was leaning toward low stomach acid. I don't know a whole lot about the role of stomach acid though, I know it helps break down food and digestion, right? Then I was thinking the problem might be gallstones, or bile problem, cause we need good bile to help digest fats and all that. So I don't know for sure what my problem is, I don't go to doctors much.
I just want to figure out all the stuff I can do to help these things, though I'm not sure if my problem is both, or one or the other.
I wish I had a see through body to see all my organs.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
Does anyone have any or know of any articles re: breastmilk *still* being best even for babies w/food intolerances?

My mother, MIL, AIL, are wondering why I'm still nursing while dd is so sensitive to what I am eating. Just want to have some research in my corner so to speak.
Fwiw, dd's allergist wanted me to breastfeed as long as possible. Allergic reactions are typically very much milder through breastmilk. The allergist did want me avoiding any foods that caused a reaction in her, too.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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<<Studies have shown decreased bone mineral densities and nutrient deficiencies in mothers on inadequate "allergy prevention diets".>>

That’s interesting, Jane. I did the elimination diet while nursing dd. Not the total elimination diet—just avoiding the top 8 allergens plus a few. I had my bone density tested just for fun after I’d been on the diet 1 ½ years. My midwife friend said that bone density scores are usually much lower while breastfeeding than they are after weaning the child. My bone density level was much higher than it had been before I got pregnant.

I don’t really trust doctors anymore, either. Except for a few—one of which is dd’s allergist.

Here’s my story. Warning—It’s very long.

I ate pretty healthy before pregnancy, but with the nausea and general feeling like crap, I reverted to junk food like I ate in high school—fish sticks, McDonald’s, bagel bites, ice cream, etc. Then we moved when I was 4 months pregnant from Ohio to Washington, right after we went on a three week road trip South. Took two weeks to drive to WA so we could sightsee. Ate lots of fast food as I needed to eat every 3 hours. And from the poor diet and sitting in a car, my legs swelled from the knees down. We got to WA, bought a new house, had the downstairs finished, so I got major paint fumes, new carpet offgassing, etc. Diet got worse if possible cause I was stressed out about not knowing anyone, being so far away from family, etc. Took the glucose tolerance test and was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. Went to the gestational diabetes class offered by the hospitals—worthless information. Found the plus size pregnancy website and educated myself on dealing with gestational diabetes. For the rest of my pregnancy, I controlled my blood sugars by diet alone and started making connections between the amount of carbs I ate and how I felt. Because I had gd, the ob decided that I would need to be induced two weeks early just to make sure the baby didn’t get too big. I switched to a midwife at 37 weeks, but still ended up getting induced 1 week overdue. I’m still not sure it was justified. Dd was born with a high respiratory rate, so she was rushed off to the nicu. Was given a bottle of glucose water and then a bottle of formula to try to lower her breathing rate. I didn’t get to try to breastfeed until she was 5 hours old.

By 4 days of age, she had lost more than 10% of body weight and my milk had not come in. I was told I had to supplement with formula. When I rented a pump, the lc told me to stop nursing for 2 days and just pump and bottlefeed. After two days, I saw her again and she said to use a supplemental nursing system and supplement with formula. One of my friends told me to go to bed with the baby and just nurse nonstop, so I did that. My milk finally came in when she was one week old.

I had lots of breastfeeding problems and was finally told that I must just have sensitive nipples and that’s why it hurt. One lc had suggested nystatin just to see if it would work, but I didn’t try it. I now wish I had because I think it might have helped.

Dd had a rash on her face constantly but we were told it was normal baby rashes. Her cradle cap started at 7 weeks and just got worse and worse. Then the eczema slowly started and was pretty bad by three months of age. Her poops also abruptly changed to being very smelly around 3 months—the ped said it was normal. And as far as poop goes, she only had about one bm a week from the age of 1 week.

I started talking to different people and one of them suggested food allergies. So on my own, I read about allergies and elimination diets and pulled all dairy, wheat, soy, eggs, nuts, seafood, citrus, tomatoes, and berries from my diet. I consulted with a naturopath and tried following her program, but I saw no change. Dd was absolutely miserable. She would wake up every 15 to 30 at night to scratch and the only way I could get her back to sleep was nursing. She couldn’t be left alone during the day because she would do nothing but scratch. Dh was out of town, so I was on my own. At five months, due mostly to lack of sleep, I let the ped talk me into giving dd a round of antibiotics and oral steroids along with using hydrocortisone cream on dd. In a sense, the drugs were a godsend. Her eczema cleared, the cradle cap disappeared and she started sleeping. Her eczema did come back in a few spots, but was nothing compared to what it was like before. The ped said that keeping her moisturized was the only thing to do. She definitely didn’t believe it was an allergy issue.

At one point before the medication, I tried putting a probiotic paste on dd’s eczema. She immediately broke out in hives, started screaming and scratching and started swelling. Turns out it was a diary form. I was finally able to convince the ped to do allergy testing and she tested allergic to wheat, dogs, and milk. Her milk score was in the anaphylactic range. The same week I found out, one of dd’s playmates stopped breathing when he was given one bite of yogurt. So, I was convinced of the need to completely avoid her allergens. I continued avoiding the main allergens on the advice of her allergist. I have also found that she is extremely contact reactive to milk.

I didn’t start her on solids til about 8 or 9 months and kept taking her off of them because she would get extremely constipated. And she reacted to sweet peas. Finally at 1 year, when she would cry and cry when she saw us eating, I gave in and started giving her table food. Turns out her constipation with baby food was a fiber thing. She actually started having daily poops with table food.

We have continued to avoid the main allergens with her. She was just tested a month ago and tested in the anaphylactic range to eggs and peanuts and also tested allergic to almonds and cats. And I really wanted to try the scd. The allergist wants us to avoid all nuts until at least 4, and even though that could be overly cautious, I think I will. Nuts are not necessary and I don’t want to risk anything.

Oh, and dd is anemic. And she weaned herself in December. And she reacts with eczema to spinach, and she reacts with diaper rash/diarrhea with most legumes. And she can’t wear anything other than 100% cotton and gets rashes from our carpet. Oh, and I had silver fillings replaced when she was six months old with her sitting on my lap the whole time. And I was still nursing her.

Dd has been on probiotics several times for a long time, but I never saw a change. I did probiotics and digestive enzymes for a while and didn’t see a change, either.

I do believe that leaky gut in the mom makes a big difference in allergies, but that’s just not something you hear about from doctors or even alternative sources dealing with allergies. There is currently a discussion of this theory on kidswithfoodallergies.com.

I believe in the value of elimination diets. I don’t think they are necessarily bad. I don’t believe in the total elimination diets although I do understand the appeal of them. You do see an improvement in your child much quicker, and sometimes that’s more important at first. I know that I could not have survived much longer on the amount of sleep I was getting.

I do agree that finding the root of the problem and solving it is the answer. I think ideally the answer would be finding the triggers and avoiding them while changing the diet and taking supplements to heal the gut. It literally pains me to see kids suffering from foods that cause reactions, “but it’s okay because they need the nutrients and it’s too hard to find alternate foods.” (I’m thinking specifically of a friend whose baby has obvious signs of milk allergy, including extreme constipation, gas pain, failure to thrive, eczema, etc. but is being reassured by the doctor that it’s just colic. Colic still at 7 months old? And the symptoms completely disappeared in the week the baby was tried on Neocate. But of course that’s too expensive to stay on, and it’s just colic and he’ll outgrow it.) I digress.

I am finding with myself that I do much better off sugars and grains, but I haven’t made the commitment to fully changing my diet, yet. And I do want to change dd’s diet, but I haven’t made that commitment yet, either. Right now I’m seeing all the negatives about it—she can’t have dairy, eggs or nuts. She won’t drink anything other than water, is currently eating no veggies, will only eat a few fruits. Potatoes and rice flour waffles are such a staple right now. And the fact that we’ll be moving in three months, and it would be very hard to do the scd while moving. I just need to sit down, start looking at the positives, and do some planning. Convenience is one of my weaknesses—having homemade frozen waffles I can just pop in the oven, getting French fries from the drive through when we’re running our errands, etc.

Finding this thread has really been an eye opener for me in lots of ways. I have learned so much from you all.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So, as a short answer to your question, Jane, I found out through blood testing about dd's allergies--the bad ones, anyway. I would much rather find out that way than in real life reactions. Now, there is a very, very, very slight chance that the test results are wrong, but I'd rather not find out right now.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AmyD
My older son was reacting to everything for some time, so I would tell someone to find me a "dairy-free, corn-free, coconut-free, soy-free" formula, and I would consider it. (which i wouldn't ). But the fact of the matter was that no ABM would meet his needs.
Good one! I'm gonna remember it.
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pattyla
I can get homogonized paturized grass fed organic milk at the grocery store. Not sure what the non-homogonized cows are eating but I expect at least some grain.

I think I have a working yougart contraption!!! The temp has gone a bit high but stayed under 120 so that is ok, right? My maker should be here tomorrow but we were nearly out of yougart now.

I can't beleive I have to wait another week for the book. UGH! Anyone have any good deserty ideas that don't use nuts? We all need a treat but I'm not having any luck finding recipes that look any good. The cheese cake wasn't good. And we are sick of applesauce but unsure what else we can move on to at this point. HELP!!!
Yikes, that's harder to choose - homogenized pastured milk vs. non homogenized grain fed milk?

I guess the grass fed is always preferable since the fats are of better quality, but homogenizing them does degrade them.

I've heard that a bit lower, like 117 is the magic number where probiotics start to die.. but also 120. As long as the final product is very very tart, it's probably okay. Can you crack the top a little or something?

The cheesecake is much better, more like the real stuff, made with dripped yogurt than DCCC, but it's takes a while. Isn't there an apple yogurt pie in BTVC? I've never tried it though. What about the pumpkin pie recipe? Use dripped yogurt in that so it's not so tart. Sauteed apples with butter and cinnamon/nutmeg is good.
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by firefaery
We use homeopathy for EVERYTHING. It's great in a gut healing program. Homeopathy can create a real shift, plus it's based on the whole idea is that you shouldn't have any sensitivities to begin with. I really believe that you need a skilled homeopath at your disposal though. I've said it before...I've used it for years. I can help almost anyone with acute conditions, which gut damage is not. I know enough to defer to a doc for constitutional stuff. If you try to treat acutely you're just going to end up chasing symptoms and not truly treating homeopathically.
this is such a coincidence b/c I started DS on coffea cruda for his sleep issues today!!! If I can just solve that one, everything else would be so much better.

DH is putting his foot down about seeing the way expensive Homeopath right now! ARGH
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tweetybirds2
I'm just thinking outloud here, trying to put puzzle pieces together.

Okay, so how do I figure out what it is. I was leaning toward low stomach acid. I don't know a whole lot about the role of stomach acid though, I know it helps break down food and digestion, right? Then I was thinking the problem might be gallstones, or bile problem, cause we need good bile to help digest fats and all that. So I don't know for sure what my problem is, I don't go to doctors much.
I just want to figure out all the stuff I can do to help these things, though I'm not sure if my problem is both, or one or the other.
I wish I had a see through body to see all my organs.
Yeah, tell me about it!

The test for low stomach acid is to take several betaine HCI pills with a regular meal. If you don't get reflux/heartburn, you might really need the extra acid.

But I don't know why people have low stomach acid naturally, I mean beyond medications and such.
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
this is such a coincidence b/c I started DS on coffea cruda for his sleep issues today!!! If I can just solve that one, everything else would be so much better.

DH is putting his foot down about seeing the way expensive Homeopath right now! ARGH
How close are you to Brattleboro, VT? My homeopath is there and he takes insurance as well, b/c he was smart and became a NP too
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:57 AM
 
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WOW Deborah, thanks for your story

(maybe the bone thing is because you ate healthier than before? I know my diet got WAY better in some ways on an Elim. Diet. Like Tweetybirds said, this is all so intricate sometimes we don't know the cause.)

I'm glad you posted though because yes, Elim. Diet can be helpful, it's just that there is something missing from them ... the healing part.

I think enzymes would be very worth a second try in your cases... which ones did you try and for how long? It takes a while to heal a gut with them. Ditto probiotics.

And it really makes me sad that we have such similar stories re: not being in control of our births and our babies. I have a lot of anxiety about other issues with respect to DS's birth too.

I cannot believe a dentist allowed your 6 mo old to sit on your lap while drilling out mercury fillings Have you considered getting her hair tested? She has a lot of allergies for sure, that must be so hard.
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:00 AM
 
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tweetybirds2, it's common to have low stomach acid if you are aging, in my case, I definitely have it (did the HCL challenge with pills, got up to 7 pills before I felt heartburn!). I don't know why. I think it might be from long-term use of Tums, and also I was on Zantac during my pg for reflux (which was diagnosed based solely on my having morning sickness well into my second trimester), and was on it before for what I was told was reflux based on my troubles with swallowing (which could have just been food intolerance). So it does happen!

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Old 02-27-2006, 02:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AmyD
How close are you to Brattleboro, VT? My homeopath is there and he takes insurance as well, b/c he was smart and became a NP too
Wow, yes Brattleboro is just over the border but we are 108 miles away.

Verrrry interesting. That was very smart. That gives me an idea... I have another referral that is an M.D. here in MA going to check up on him.

You are still trying to kidnap me huh?
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mlleoiseau
So, as a short answer to your question, Jane, I found out through blood testing about dd's allergies--the bad ones, anyway. I would much rather find out that way than in real life reactions. Now, there is a very, very, very slight chance that the test results are wrong, but I'd rather not find out right now.
Yeah I don't blame you one single bit!!!
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:05 AM
 
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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So, Jane are you saying that you shouldn't use raw milk if it's not grass fed? Because in this area, it's too cold for the cows to be pastured in the winter. See: http://www.graceharborfarms.com/raw_milk.htm

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Old 02-27-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hibou
2. In regards to enzymes, what brands are reputable, and if anyone on this thread is in Canada, I'm interested in knowing which reputable brands are specifically available here.
Is Enzymedica at hfs in Canada? Here is listing from Karen's site:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/supplement.htm
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:12 AM
 
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You have me beat. We are over 70 miles away, but 2 hrs due to the back roads.
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:13 AM
 
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So, Jane are you saying that you shouldn't use raw milk if it's not grass fed? Because in this area, it's too cold for the cows to be pastured in the winter. See: http://www.graceharborfarms.com/raw_milk.htm
Not necessarily... I do see from your link that they also feed alfalfa and grass during winter too. I don't know the extent or percentage of their diet to which grains starts to effect them but that site seems like their cows are very healthy. And they do pasture the other 3 seasons?

I really said that with respect to the mastitis issue which is extremely serious and sign of a big problem. Year round grain feeding can cause this, not so sure about seasonal issues. It's really the health of the cow, and... get this... their intestinal flora!
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:15 AM
 
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You have me beat. We are over 70 miles away, but 2 hrs due to the back roads.
And what pretty back roads they are! One of the first times I drove on major roads was from vacation house in Quechee to Killington. Sigh.
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:16 AM
 
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Ok I still don't have the book so telling me to make something out of it won't help.

I made a coconut custard thing tonight. It was yummy!

DD was nuts at bedtime though. Could have been the coconut, the nuts from yesterday that I ate way too many of, the tiny bit of guten I got w/comunion that made me feel sick immediately (not sure how I'm going to deal with that one) or the small chance that she was given something in the church nursery but I doubt that, or just the fact that she is teething something terrible (poor thing why won't these break through!)

So can I replace dccc w/dripped yougart in all recipes? That would rock! Oh I've gotta go turn off my yougart maker now. I'm not thrilled about it taking 3 days from when I start making it untill I have it and if one more person gives me advice on how they make regular yougart I'm gonna scream! (just put it in a sleeping bag. Just put it in a warm oven for a couple of hours, etc.)

One more week and my book will be here and I won't feel quite so much like I am groping arround in the dark trying to figure this thing out.

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Old 02-27-2006, 02:24 AM
 
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About my raw milk guy. He has apparently been doing this for a while and is just baffled by the mastitis that won't go away. He says he hasn't ever seen anything like this before. He seems pretty smart (first generation farmer doing it cause he likes it) so I'm not going to write him off just yet. I do know that two of the cow he has were recent aquisitions so perhaps that is the problem, what they were getting before he got them.

I don't know if the low temp non homo milk is grass or grain fed but I assume that since it doesn't say it is grain fed. I have been using the yougart from the grass fed company to start my 24 hour yougart. (it comes in bottles no thickeners or anything but the milk and probiotics).

Man I wish I could convince my fil to start grass feeding his cows. He just bought a bull that was all grass fed and he was very impressed with it's condition. Perhaps that will start to sway him in that direction...

The local farm where I get my eggs and chickens just started doing some grass fed beef. I got some for dh and dd (I can't digest beef plus it smells terrible to me).

Oh and I got some enzymes that are supposed to be for candidia. How much help will the really give me? Should I be attempting to get some into dd as well? Will she get any from bfing? How important is the seperation from meals? Why do they say to eat it closer to a meall when your case is more acute?

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Old 02-27-2006, 02:25 AM
 
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Jane-that's ds's constitutional! He takes it at 10M though...but it's a perfect fit. Let me know how it goes!

Also I had to post this. Some of you may think I'm nutty, but here goes. For my birthday this past June my dear friends gave me a reading with an intuitive. I did it over the phone (she's in CA, I'm in CT) and it was really cool. Pretty cheap, too. She sends you a tape of the reading (for $5) so you can listen to it later. I remember the reading being very good, but that was the end of it. Until I pulled out the tape two days ago.
She NAILED just about every one of the kids allergies before I ever got the blood test. Even down to the degree of severity( she uses a 1-10 scale for all foods. 10 is nourishing, 1 is harmful and you shouldn't eat anything below a five. She named the foods that the kiddos were allergic to all below a five and some at a zero.) She talked about my liver being very damaged, and I just had testing about two months ago that revealed significant liver damage. She told me what minerals dd and I were deficient in. She also recommends supplements based on her numbers system for your body. For instance, Primal Defense came up great for me (9), but the GOL enzymes did not (2). She recommended the WOB enzyme for me.

Anyway, I'm talking to her again tomorrow to ask more specific questions. Last time she just sort of talked, and since I was thinking it was just for fun I listened. Now I have questions about particular foods, and supplements I want to try. I'll let you know (if you're interested) how it goes.
I normally wouldn't post this here, but I just discovered in listening to the tape that there were complete parallels between her reading and the allergy testing. You also get alot more (recommendations, deficiency reading and the best ways for YOU to deal with it) for alot less money.
Sorry if this was weird, but if it can help another mama...I guess it's just another form of testing?
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:42 AM
 
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OT- To firefaery- I'm from CT origionally but not any more. I tried to pm you but you are full. I'm from Tolland. Where are you located?

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:47 AM
 
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My uncle's in Tolland! I'm in Pleasant Valley. My homeopath is in Woodstock, though-not too far from your old digs!
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Old 02-27-2006, 02:47 AM
 
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I just read on a raw milk site that to pasturize their milk heat it to 161 and cool it quickly. I am wondering if I'm killing off any good remaining enzymes on my low temp pasturized milk by heating it to 190 before cooling it for the yougart.

Can anyone explain to my why I have to heat it? I'm confused on that point.

Patty wife to Jason Mama to Wisteria (6) and Junia (2)
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
Yeah, tell me about it!

The test for low stomach acid is to take several betaine HCI pills with a regular meal. If you don't get reflux/heartburn, you might really need the extra acid.
.
ooh I didn't know there was a test for it! I'll go try it out tomorrow, Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla
I just read on a raw milk site that to pasturize their milk heat it to 161 and cool it quickly. I am wondering if I'm killing off any good remaining enzymes on my low temp pasturized milk by heating it to 190 before cooling it for the yougart.

Can anyone explain to my why I have to heat it? I'm confused on that point.
I don't know if this is why others do it, but I actually heat our pasteurized milk to boiling before cooling it down for yogurt. I do this because pasteurization apparently twists the milk proteins and makes them very indigestible, but if they are boiled then they break apart and become easily digested. I read about it in the Garden of Eating book.

If I had raw milk, then I would not heat it up before making the yogurt.
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:35 PM
 
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So here's a question I'm about ready to try some goat milk/yogurt to see if it gives me excema like cow milk does. I googled and raw milk is illegal in NJ, so basically I'll be getting store bought goat milk, yogurt or cheese. Which would be the best to try? I know SCD says to make your own, but I want to see if I can even tolerate goat milk before I go to that effort.

Also, does goat milk have lactose in it? Because I'm also lactose intolerant so . . . . . . So many things to think of
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