Healing the Gut Tribe.......April - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 12:24 PM
 
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Has everyone noticed that the CHEAT SHEET has been stickied at the top of the H&H forum?

I will continue to update that version, added a new link this morning.
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#122 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 01:23 PM
 
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More on S. boulardii
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/169

Quote:
One of my favorite good guys of the gut is actually "good yeast". Sacchromyces boulardii is good yeast that has been studied extensively for intestinal diseases and symptoms of IBD. It is wonderful for controlling diarrhea, especially if Clostridium difficille is the cause. Saccharomyces boulardii releases a protein that interferes with the binding of toxin A secreted by C. difficile to its receptor.

In a randomized placebo-controlled trial, Saccharomyces boulardii in combination with vancomycin or metronidazole reduced the relapse rate by 50% and was well tolerated.
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#123 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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Interesting blog on probiotics with good links out. I've never heard the "HSO's can contain metals" reference. He also says Primal Defense contains iron, which can be trouble for a damaged gut.

http://www.patsullivan.com/blog/2005...tics_supp.html
Quote:
Having used many probiotic supplements with little success, I learned the hard way that the only way probiotics really work are with very high quality, high doses of just a few proven human strains of friendly bacteria. Also, I learned to HATE FOS because it caused me so many GI problems. And, I don’t want ANY heavy metals in any supplement I take...soil Based Probiotics can have problems with heavy metals depending on the source of “dirt”! Who needs a lot of lead?
He writes a lot about amalgam fillings and the autism mercury connection too.
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#124 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 01:44 PM
 
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This is the non dairy probiotic I would do instead of Primal Defense if you are not following SCD:
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=EFI-12125

If you are going SCD I think the only non dairy acidophilus is at Kirkman.
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#125 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 02:09 PM
 
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Ditto. Primal Defense is a great product, but although J.R. healed himself with a similar product HSO's aren't always a good idea for a compromised gut. Later on it's a great supplement. We had luck with the one from Kirkman Labs.
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#126 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 02:11 PM
 
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Thanks, Jane for all your hard work! Sure makes it less intimidating for beginners.
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#127 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 02:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
Thanks, Jane for all your hard work! Sure makes it less intimidating for beginners.
thank you

I just was about to post...

I'm not answering any more questions 'til I get feedback on the Cheat Sheet

And like I said before if there's any suggestions or basic things that people wonder about that I didn't include, please let me know. I'm so in the middle of this that I sometimes can't see it from a newbie's eyes.
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#128 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 02:30 PM
 
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I Need Help

Anyone have experience with the Acid/Alkaline balance?

I think that DS is overacid. I'm worried how this relates to the calculus on his teeth... acidic saliva is primarily the cause b/c it contains an excess of calcium.

I've found a very interesting article from the Price Pottenger foundation on the calculus issue. Apparently the key is certain saturated fats in the bloodstream, that clear the blood of acid, not just having an alkaline diet of mostly produce as some people think since the body has it's own controls.

Quote:
In the early 1900's a dentist named Dr. Waters noticed that, without exception, every diabetic and cancer patient he examined, along with the majority of those with chronic diseases, had an unusually heavy buildup of calculus and evidence of gum disease. Those with dentures would have a heavy deposit of calculus on the dentures. Dr. Waters concluded that in these patients the bloodstream was slightly acidic, helping to foster the development of cancer and other diseases. One of the symptoms of this systemic acidosis was that the saliva made from acidic blood allows solids to precipitate and form tartar or calculus deposits on the teeth.
The treatment he devised was to give these patients a supplement of ox bile, and by this means he was able to completely eliminate the calculus formation. Bile salts are highly alkaline. - Dr. David G. Williams, Alternatives, June 2001.
Interestingly enough, when I kept researcing the acid issue: bacterial inactivation of bile salts kept coming up. Which effects lipid digestion. And (drumroll) sugar digestion and the "deconjugated" bile salts themselves are quite toxic. And (another drumroll) causes diarrhea.

It would seem impossible to do an alkaline diet plus SCD. And DS still doesn't tolerate a lot of fruits and veggies either. And I'm now concerned about his liver b/c of all this overwork. How to test that best?

My head is seriously ready to explode here.
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#129 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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Jane-short on time...it actually is very doable-we did it because I really believe in the benefits. I'll write more in a bit (I have visitors showing up.)
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#130 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 06:06 PM
 
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Jane- I was very acid and took a homeopathic to correct it. I'm trying to remember what it was now... Actually it may have been a cell salt. My dr likes the cell salts a lot. DD was on the same one. Have you looked into trying the butter oil on your ds? It has something in it that is supposed to specifically help with leaky gut. I forget the name right now.

Thanks for the cheat sheet. It is a huge help.

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#131 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 06:12 PM
 
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Yeah I have the butter oil and wasn't sure if it was making his stool looser or not so of course I pulled it. This is the problem, I pull stuff and then wait for a "good time" to reintroduce and that day never comes. I honestly cannot tell what he reacts to sometimes.

He's on a constitutional remedy: Sulfur. It's doing less than nothing after almost 2 weeks. I'm just so flippin' irritated about all this right now!
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#132 of 522 Old 04-08-2006, 09:43 PM
 
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jane, the liver thing is the easy part. It's just a blood test, if it's under any strain at all it will be dumping enzymes. It's very standard-not something you need to go to yet another lab for. If it was a problem there is SO much you can do about it. Liver support is not difficult.

The body does have it's own controls, that's true. But dietary changes can sort of re-activate the body's natural "tendencies." It's a good place to start. Homeopathy can help too, but it sounds like you aren't having great luck with your practitioner? Do you know which sulfur he's on?

I don't know how picky your ds is. Will he drink lemon water?
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#133 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 03:28 PM
 
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My chicken stock didn't gel I've made it lots of times before and it always gelled but this one didn't at all. I bought a "natural" chicken from the hfs (different brand than before) and I guess it was no good. That makes me mad--I spent like $13 on that chicken and paid full price instead of waiting for a sale because I wanted to get some good gelatin in me. I guess I'll try beef stock next time--oxtail is supposed to have gelatin in it, right? I can only get marrow bones so I got some oxtail, too.

DD was back to normal yesterday so I started up the enzymes again, more slowly this time. How do I know if she has diarrhea...EBF baby poop is so runny anyway I don't know if I could use that as a sign of her reacting to something.

I tried those Midas gold pancakes today w/added cinnamon--that was good! Til now I've been sticking with raw (crispied) almond and almond butter to preserve the enzymes but I decided to try cooking with it. I guess right now I'm kind of doing a combination of Maker's Diet and SCD--following the Maker's Diet recommendations for foods, which are all SCD legal right now I think, but eating raw stuff. Next week I get to add the rest of the fruit back in, except bananas, and the rest of the nuts. I'm supposed to be able to add in starchy veggies, too, but I think I will leave them out for another couple of weeks. I'm hoping to get enough healing done on the first 2 stages of the Maker's Diet to be able to avoid going on the SCD...plus I am bound and determined to use up the $35 bottle of Garden of Life probiotics I bought and already opened and I know it's not SCD legal.

I did get some kefir grains in the mail yesterday--has anyone tried making kefir w/juice? I was thinking maybe I'd start with that in a few weeks...since they're milk grains would that contaminate the juice with dairy? If I used store-bought organic pineapple juice, would that be okay--I know it will be pasturized, though. I suppose I need to find a refrigerated version because the shelf stable ones are probably ultra pasturized. I don't have a juicer...maybe I can mush the fruit up in the VitaMix and then squeeze out all the juice.

Is there any way to keep from losing weight on this diet? I've lost an average of 1/2 pound per day so far, even with eating a lot, and I didn't have any weight to spare.
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#134 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 06:44 PM
 
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Jane, I am also thinking about the whole acid/alkaline balance thing, particularly since ds and I have major tooth decay. I would love to see a list of SCD legal alkaline foods. Where would one get the bile salts, anyway? I am sure that my and ds's livers are overworked, just because of the dark circles (mine keep getting worse, I really have a couple of shiners going on) and blue areas around the inside of my eyes along the bridge of my nose (and his). As far as the sulfur, is your homeopath having you put the pellets in spring water then take some of that and put it in some more spring water, then use the resulting liquid? Or taking the pellets? Sounds like voodoo in a way. Haven't tried it myself yet, still looking for a good homeopath who can guide me on it. Oh, and the sticky is great!

Firefaery, what is the liver test? Can a naturopath order it?

To the person who posted the schwarzbein principle link (it was for zinc): I read her book a few years ago when I was ttc, and at the time, her diet, which involved cooking all your foods yourself (!) sounded too complicated, so I abandonded it. I ended up using fertility drugs instead, basically, and now I'm feeling bad because maybe if I'd fixed my diet in the first place, I would have been able to conceive naturally, and maybe ds wouldn't be so challenged (can't think of another way to put it). Maybe by going with drugs instead of fixing the problem, I caused a baby to be conceived in a body that wasn't fit to carry a child? Maybe all his problems are my fault! I am feeling a bit depressed today, can you tell? That said, I looked at the book Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition, and the author says to be fertile you need to get 50% of your calories from complex carbs, and to eat low fat!

I am feeling like the SCD is not working for us, in that I just don't have the energy to make all the foods that are yummy to eat and easy to eat, and ds is ending up eating raisins instead, and making his yeasties go crazy (he actually acts really wacky). Sigh.

To top it all off, found out that at a new church group that dh and I attended, the husband who was hosting the get together followed dh around every time he left the main room where people were chatting, making dh feel like a criminal or something. Yuck! I know my thoughts are acidifying today!

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#135 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 07:11 PM
 
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So I went on SCD about a month ago, to a false start because of "marital issues" re: the diet! I was basically on SCD about 90-95% after that, until I got my act together with my milk source etc.. Then about 10 days ago, I staterted SCD with "fanatical adherence". My DP has expressed his strong opinions against me doing this diet, especially since this time both the kids are on it as well.

Today, he finally said that he feels I should be doing this along with the watchful eye of a doctor. I admit I haven't seen a health practioner (for general check-ups etc) in 5 years (apart from pregnancy related -- Ob/gyn the first time, Midwife the second, but they don't really count nutrition-wise). Basically I've done all this self-diagnoses and my DP doesn't think I should be experementing on myself (and our kids) like this. I told him about how this diet can't harm anyone, but I kind of feel he has a point that perhaps it'll be in our family's best interested to have a practioner follow our progress.

My DP did say that perhaps having a doctor will help this animosity that has developed between us as a result of my fanaticism to SCD. I've been telling him that I wanted to get tests just to show him the shape I was in wasn't great, but he'd just roll his eyes at me. I'm happy this recommendation is coming from him, because this time I'm actually just going to see a Naturopath (or should I see someone else?) and get the tests, and see how SCD fits in to our lives after that.

I'm going to continue with SCD since I've had great results so far -- for myself and Galen (which my DP thinks could just be all coincidence!). We'll see what the new doctor will have to say.

Any input, thoughts and ideas would be greatfully appreciated
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#136 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 07:22 PM
 
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Siana, I think that if you find a doctor who will support SCD, it will definitely help your relationship, although your dh really should support you regardless (but I know how they are). There is a website where you can find SCD friendly doctors. It's run by a woman named Gay Bauer, she's on an SCD list I'm on. The url is http://www.scdiet.net/

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#137 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
Welcome

Personally I saw great difference in fatigue/energy when healing started taking place. I think the toxins that yeast/bacteria has something to do with it. And the interference with absorbing nutrients. Also die off can indeed cause enormous fatigue. One thing I think I noticed when vacillating about going on the diet, then not, then on again... was cyclical die off. I just kept increasing the bugs and killing them off again. Not a good feeling.
Thanks for the welcome, Jane! I've noticed in past threads that you are a fountain of wisdom.

Yeah, I think that it might be die off. I stopped taking the Candidase for now (b/c I'm not doing the rest whole hog and because I keep forgetting to take it) and the extreme fatigue is gone. I guess I will have to psych myself up to go through the fatigue stage and be really conscientious about taking the C and other stuff.

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I don't know much about adrenal issues. I probably should though b/c my DS is obviously running on empty half the time. If you find anything good please post!
I'm going to go see a local doc (DC and nutritionist) who is heavily into NT and works on all kinds of gut issues/fatigue/adrenals/yeast/etc. I'll see what he says.

Quote:
How did the yogurt flop? Raw milk yogurt can be strange textured.
Well, I ended up with a small layer of something like yogurt on the top, then mostly yellow liquid (whey?) and then some curdy-looking yogurty like stuff on the bottom. I know it's supposed to be a bit watery but this didn't seem right at all. It smelled and tasted very yogurty but geez, more than half of it was liquid. I checked the temp of the yogurt though at the end and it was at 120 degrees, so I think the yogurt maker runs hot. I'm trying again right now with the lid propped a tiny bit open...third times the charm? Anyway, this time I started with raw milk right out of the fridge. Someone on my local yahoo NT list shared her method and she starts with it cold. Previously I had heated the milk to 110 the first time and 100 the second time. It's so frustrating to have to wait a full 24 hours to check it! Actually, I will probably let this go a bit longer than 24 hrs. since I started from cold.

I'll let you know tomorrow afternoon if it turned out! If not, I think I will try the oven method.
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#138 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 07:48 PM
 
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DD had blood in her poop again today I haven't had any dairy in 3 weeks except for a tiny bit of butter 1 week ago and possibly some hidden dairy in Mexican food 2 weeks ago. Is it possible that there is still enough dairy in her/my system to be causing this? Or is there another food she's having problems with? Or can the leaky gut alone cause this?

If it's another food I don't know what it could be except eggs--pretty much all I've eaten for the past week are veggies (no starches), berries, juiced lemons, lentils, almonds, and eggs, oh, and meat. I don't think she would be reacting to the almonds because before I only ate them once in a blue moon, so I guess it would have to be the eggs if it's anything. I don't see how I can do this without eggs, though, especially since I can't do dairy.
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#139 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Is there any way to keep from losing weight on this diet? I've lost an average of 1/2 pound per day so far, even with eating a lot, and I didn't have any weight to spare.
I was worried about the weight loss thing too. I think I may have lost some in the beginning but am now maintaining at a good weight for me.
I did read somewhere (wish I could remember where) that the SCD is good for both people who need to lose and maintain weight. So far, it seems to be true for me.

Before babies, I tried everything to keep the weight on. People told me to eat bananas, eat peanut butter, drink malted milk shakes, blah, blah. I wish I had known about this healing the gut thing when I was in my 20s!

Sorry about your dd. You should get her in to a doc. I have no experience w/blood in stools but if you've been dairy-free for that long, I'd bet the cause is something else.
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#140 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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Absolutely it can still be dairy. Don't get into the head game of thinking that you must have cheated or had a tiny bit here or there. A).it only takes a tiny bit, B). damage does not get fixed overnight. Whatever caused her to bleed is still going on in terms of tissue damage. That takes a long time to heal. C). dairy proteins can take 6 weeks to get out of the system. If you suspect dairy you need to be "fanatical" (word gets used more on this thread than anywhere, but for good reason.) Dairy may have started the damage, but once it's done so many other things can aggravate it. I know it isn't an easy answer-we were there. That's what the SCD is for though. To deal with any problem food no matter what. You may want to think about gluten if you haven't already...

Pookietooth-the method you are describing is called "plussing" and should never be done without the say so of the doc. That's a quick way to get yourself dropped as a patient. It's the same as deciding to take ten prescription pills instead of one-it increases the dosage of the remedy. granted, it won't hurt you, but it could make things very uncomfortable for a long time if it is the right remedy.
The liver test is a simple panel. It's something that's routinely done in adult bloodwork and would have to be requested for kiddos. It just measure the different enzyme levels. If they are elevated it indicates the liver is working overtime or is damaged-depending on the #'s.
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#141 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 09:37 PM
 
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Re: diet. The SCD is so nutrient dense and full of calories! I would say if you're losing and don't have weight to lose it's because your body is replacing unhealthy tissue with healthy tissue. Dr. Joel Furman discusses this in his nutrition books. If you've had a poor diet and built your body with inappropriate foods you will lose the weight-even to the point of getting skinny-and then replace the weight with healthy tissue. HTH. I believe this was discussed on the NT thread (similar diets that they are) I think it would apply.
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#142 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:01 PM
 
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I know absolutely I haven't had dairy other than those two times...I haven't had any grains for the last week, so unless there's gluten in something other than grain that has been eliminated.

As far as the SCD, if I do switch to it instead of the Maker's Diet, should I just go exactly the way it recommends, 24 hr yogurt and all, or should I hold off on the yogurt for awhile? It seems like there isn't really enough info for me on the various websites. Maybe the book has more info...I have a copy on hold at the library but I think there are a few people ahead of me to get it.

When I'm starting enzymes, how do I know how much is too much for DD (as far as her reacting to what I'm taking)? Should she not have any reaction at all? Is a reaction of crabbiness ok (to whatever level I can tolerate it) if there's no poop changes in her?
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#143 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:06 PM
 
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caedmyn-maybe you should try to cut out eggs to see. DD and I react to them. They totally throw off our digestive system. So no eggs for us. And yes it makes it a little trick, but not too bad. I feel for you though tyring to figure this out. Why does it have to be so hard:

Well, this was day 3 (for the 3rd time around!). It is so darn hard to just eat chicken and broth and yogurt all day long. Today especially we were at my sister's b-day party. So much temptation and no-nos there. Overall I think we did great. I cheated with some raw carrots, celery, and olives. (oh and a glass of wine). DD did great until her and her cousin walk into the living room munching on chips!!!

So today I ate grilled hamburger patties and introduced green beans. I feel like total crap. I forgot my enzymes so that's not a factor. My legs and ankles ache. I have sulphery gas and my stomach hurts. Do you think I can be reacting to meat or not digesting it properly? I remember the other two times I've started the diet () that I have also had gas those nights I ate burgers. Everytime was different veggies though so it could be the veggies.


Oh and JaneS your CHEAT SHEET ROCKS!! I looked at it the other day and just haven't had a chance to say thanks. That will help so many people and make it so much easier to get all the basics.
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#144 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery
jane, the liver thing is the easy part. It's just a blood test, if it's under any strain at all it will be dumping enzymes. It's very standard-not something you need to go to yet another lab for. If it was a problem there is SO much you can do about it. Liver support is not difficult.

The body does have it's own controls, that's true. But dietary changes can sort of re-activate the body's natural "tendencies." It's a good place to start. Homeopathy can help too, but it sounds like you aren't having great luck with your practitioner? Do you know which sulfur he's on?

I don't know how picky your ds is. Will he drink lemon water?
Thanks FF... I will add this to our list for the next visit with the Ped/Hom.
I want his minerals and Vit. D checked too so hopefully she can just add it on. Poor baby, will be first time he will be pricked since birth!
(horrible blood tests then)

OH S**T. I forgot to give him his remedy today. It's plain ole Sulfur.

He loves, loves, loves lemonade. So I should give that to him with every meal I'm guessing? Try to knock down the meat and up the nuts I guess. He already eats a lot of fruit and veggies. Most everything else he eats is pretty alkaline or mildly acid.

The other thing I've found is ginger stimulates bile and other things:

Quote:
Ginger offers numerous health benefits that have been demonstrated both historically and scientifically. Because ginger contains 180 times the protein digesting power of papaya, and stimulates fat digesting bile as well as the growth of healthy intestinal flora, ginger restores balance and potentiates proper digestive function.* These benefits contribute to ginger’s ability to enhance the utilization of other dietary supplements. Additionally, ginger contains at least 12 antioxidant compounds and recent research in India, Denmark and Japan suggests that ginger modulates prostaglandins thereby promoting circulatory health and balancing the inflammatory process.* Our ginger juice is a full spectrum, organic extraction from ginger grown on our own farm in Costa Rica.
http://www.new-chapter.com/product/g...=32840&-search
Jen,
This is a pretty good site to check foods: http://home.bluegrass.net/~jclark/alkaline_foods.htm
Unfortunately a lot of books don't agree.
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#145 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:35 PM
 
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firefaery, I didn't mean to suggest how to take the remedy (note I didn't give amounts), I was just asking if that's what Jane's homeopath was having her do or not. Thanks for the info about the liver panel.
Jane thanks for the link. I've noticed that about the websites not agreeing about acid/alkaline foods! I did notice beans are a no-no, which is fine for ds since he won't touch them, but bad for me, since I love them. Think soaking them with whey a la NT would help?

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#146 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:38 PM
 
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Jen,

The bile salts can be found at hfs or online, they are pretty cheap. Aka ox bile.

The thing about tooth decay though IMO is that the minerals and fat soluble vitamins might be more of a key according to WAPF's research.
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...d_base_bal.htm

And since I do feel that way I'm still skeptical about this whole acid alkaline diet things. Because my gut is telling me it's my DS's minerals not be absorbed correctly and his digestion, like everything else!
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#147 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:42 PM
 
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Caedmyn,

I think the test is that if BF baby's poop smells good/like yogurt, is mostly yellow curds and doesn't give them diaper rash, then they are doing okay.

There is info on water and grape juice kefir and how to convert dairy grains at Dom's site:
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/...#Kefir-d-acqua
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#148 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:48 PM
 
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Jane~the lemon juice in water should be given a half an hour before every meal. It is so acidic that it shocks the body into alkalinity. It absolutely couldn't hurt, and will also aid in digestion and liver function.

Caedmyn~Gluten is in many things besides grains. I don't know what you've been eating so it's hard to say. But, just understand that it takes time for your body (and her's) to clear out allergens. One week isn't enough time to see a difference. Oh-and I did SCD dairy free-with no problem. If dairy is that big of an issue I would definitely hold off.
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#149 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:49 PM
 
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The homeopath's instructions were to dissolve 4 - 30C pellets in 4 oz of spring water and DS was to take 1/4-1/2 teasp. every other day.

When I said to her that it wasn't working after a week, she said to shake it before giving it to him. Now I just screwed up our schedule today so who knows.
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#150 of 522 Old 04-09-2006, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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hi--not quite caught up with the thread, but wanted to announce that we stayed on the diet in ny! woohoo! and i think i'm starting to understand it, altho i know i'll have lots of questions soon (trying to figure how to cook/introduce foods after zucchini seemed not to go too well with one dd). but i will thoroughly examine the cheat sheet first!

my girlfriend make the diet food look delicious. she also fiddled with the cheesecake and added 1/4 water with gelatin (gel added to cold water then simmered, then cooled and added to recipe)--pretty good, and gets gelatin into dds because they often won't eat the gelatin. also, they rarely take the broth (sometimes a sip or two) so i'm boiling carrots and then simmering in broth--i hope this is getting some broth into them. d'ya think?

pookietooth, i wish i had more time to write, but i wanted to say that i hear you about wishing i'd known about helaing the gut/nutrition before i got pregnant (thru ivf) too. but these babies *are* meant to be, and they're very lucky that we're finding out about this stuff now rather than later. or never.

don't have a lot of time, but why did i buy so many nuts to "start" the diet? it doesn't seem like we'll be up to nuts very soon, and i'm afraid they're all going to go rancid.

i see definite behavioral changes in my dds! i will post details soon!
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