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nicolena 04-02-2006 12:23 PM

First--check out this link to JaneS's superawesome incredible fabulous HEALING THE GUT CHEAT SHEET!

Hi guys! Happy extra daylight!

I need some help developing fanatical adherance! We were making progress, but I was still giving the girls sippies with 24 hr yogurt and banana. Now I have all the stuff for the diet (except dccc--gah--my hfs can't get it yet! anybody know a boston or providence source?). Tomorrow it begins for all three of us with no cheating. (I thought I could skip the gelatin and juice. Now I'm looking forward to juice!) I already lost two pounds from the first version, tho, and it really makes me crazy being on the diet....

Who else is doing this with 15 month olds? And themselves at the same time? Perhaps a roll call of sorts is in order? I'm 33, didn't think I had anything too bad going on, but now I think there's majot healing to be done. I;ve added glutamine for myself (can I give 1/4 to the girls?); I take clo; nutrient 950 pure encapsulation multis; a calc/mag/zinc supplement; and Bs (all sugar/starch/yeast free). I need a good C to replace my emergin'c. I'm breastfeeding twins 15.5 m.o. girls, one whose diarrhea is worse than the other's (she's had more trouble gaining weight). They've been better since we switched to NT, but eventhe carrots are showing up in their bms (of course they were mashed rather than pureed--everything thinks I'm such a fanatic, but i need help with the adherance, people!) So tomorrow I'm having my sister come by to help me manage our moods. Wish us luck. We're going to NY Thurdsday and staying with a sympathetic friend...who thinks I'm being a bit fanatical ("all babies' poops are weird").

Question: It says the only specific thing to introduce at a certain time is the yogurt. I feel like a bad reader because I can not for the life of me figure out WHEN to intro it. Please enlighten me!

[Here's more info than you want to know about us:
i guess i should add to my intro. i've had minor yeast issues, not enough to ever go to a doctor. but i was on antideprressants and antianxiety meds for years, then i added too much red wine, eventually had a seizure, got off all meds (and stopped wanting the wine!), and three months later got pregnant with in vitro after 5 years of various other fertility treatments. sigh. then i tried to lose weight while nursing--never going more than the "allowable" .5 to 1 lb a week, but using splenda and eating dead food. when i started the girls on solids (it's solids or formula, said the extinct pedi), i realized that i was giving them everything organic except my milk. so first i got pretty close to organic myself. then i read about NT, and i've been steadily getting healthier the past few months thru NT.

the girls came out tiny, and i had them vaxxed the first year before i knew better . they had formula and bm the first 9,5 weeks, but once i got them all on the boob, they stopped gaining. and they were colciky. i was eating horrible packaged stuff because ihad no time to cook. they never slept without lying on me--still barely do. i gave them zantac for about a month for the colic--maybe less time; it did nothing. i gave them tylenol for imaginary teething. i had three fillings done while breastfeeding--gah! we started solids at 6 months and they gained weight, but i don't think they've ever had a solid poop until just recently. i was told this was normal because i was breastfeeding. i am currently desperately in search of a book with pictures of normal poop. is there a doctor of scatology here?
Thanks guys!

JaneS 04-02-2006 02:46 PM

For those of you experiencing sensitivities with almonds... are they organic almonds?

I used to have a lot of problems with my throat swelling and closing up from certain "conventional" fruits (esp. apples) all my life. When I found organics, I was in heaven, no problems at all.

JaneS 04-02-2006 03:00 PM


I posted before about both Star and S&S carrying Friendship farmer's cheese, did you check them?

See the food introducing chart at Pecanbread for help:

It's not 100% accurate, it's based on parent feedback and some kids might be different. My DS couldn't do spinach early on for ex. But at least it's a general guideline. BTVC only addresses introduction of some things like waiting til some healing has occured for raw fruits and veggies, whole nuts, dried fruits and coconut.

From March's thread: Gelatin is very important for gut healing, but if you are doing bone broths, that is a good substitute for the fruit blocks.

Glutamine can cause significant hyperactivity, go carefully. It's also contained in bone broths and gelatin I believe so anther reason why they are so healing.

I'm liking natural vitamin C lately, it has the bioflavonoids intact. Much more potent in smaller doses than the chemical C (ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate). If you take the chemical stuff for a which you develop a bioflavoniod deficiency. And biofl's are very helpful for allergies and histamine reactions.

Amal or Amalaki powder is a source of whole foods C. I found additive free Paradise Herbs Amla and Himalaya Amla, both at or (which has a $10 off coupon for new members)

Gale Force 04-02-2006 03:15 PM


JaneS 04-02-2006 03:21 PM

DS has dropped down to 30th percentile for height.

I knew this was going on. He stopped growing so much it seems when I weaned him. The kid who has been in the upper registers since birth (almost 10lbs). His dad is 6'3" too. His weight is 95th, my chunky monkey.

So obviously it's the minerals effecting his growth. Another "tell me something I don't know" but what do do about it!? She didn't address this specifically, no time surprisingly in our 45 min appt. It goes fast.

DS gets Brainchild Ultra Senstive minerals, 2 cups of goat yogurt and nuts every day and bone broths when I can get them into him. Plenty of minerals. I supplement with vitamin D and A in CLO, and he also gets goat butter which also has A&D. He's just not absorbing the minerals. Possibly is magnesium deficient too but I can never get that to work without feeling like it's effecting him negatively.

More on chunky monkeys with gut issues here, this makes sense to me giving the unbelievably healthy diet he eats:

We talked about NAET treatments. 10 sessions in all. She can get ins. to pay for one allergy visit/month, so maybe we will do 2 visits over the next 5 months. I would be a surrogate to do the muscle testing on, holding DS in my lap.

Didn't you do NAET? any tips? I need to read up on it.

Still waiting for bacteria/parasitology tests from Great Smokies and c. difficile test and stool culture from local lab. (The latter stool culture is probably a duplicate of the Great Smokies but the lab people said it's always ordered with a c. diff so who was I to refuse more testing!)

So when the tests come back she will probably recommend herbal treatment. One she mentioned was uva ursi.

Gale Force 04-02-2006 03:32 PM


I found some studies where they selected small children and gave them supplemental zinc. They outgrew the control group. What's fascinating is that they did not test their zinc status, just selected small children. They concluded that smallness must be an indicator of subclinical zinc deficiencies. I imagine the same could be true with a stop in growing. Frederick's been off the charts since he was a few months old. And I don't mean off the top of the charts.


JaneS 04-02-2006 03:46 PM

re: Frederick
Thank you, this is so hard and frustrating as you know only too well. The Ultra sensitive mineral multi has zinc, maybe not enough for him, I don't know. Maybe I'll try extra. I do have a sample of Brainchild liquid zinc but then I was worried I'd be giving too much when he didn't need it.

Talking to the Ped about the blood test you recommended for minerals was also on my list. Unfortunately my list was too long I guess! I'm impatient for sure.

Annikate 04-02-2006 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by JaneS
I would be a surrogate to do the muscle testing on, holding DS in my lap.
We did this w/dd. I held her & she was tested through me. I was skeptical at first but I think it really does have some benefits. The energies can change though so rapidly that one day a dc might be reactive to something and the next be okay w/it. Dh and I actually practiced at home doing it ourselves and it's really easy to do w/some practice.

The only thing about it now is that when we did the muscle testing, it showed that dd was okay with wheat! RAST testing showed she was HIGHLY allergic to wheat. So . . . I kind of feel that it led us down the wrong path kwim?

Gale Force 04-02-2006 04:07 PM

Yep, it feels like a big game of pin the tail on the donkey, that's for sure.

caedmyn 04-02-2006 04:14 PM


Pattyla 04-02-2006 05:56 PM

I think dd has fifths disease. (one more thing). Luckily it is pretty benign as childhood diseases go. I'm glad to start with it. It does mean no play dates and such for a while I guess. I'll have to ask other mama's what they think. DD seems fine but has the slapped cheek rash that I was thinking was teething and another rash on her knee. She had a high fever last night but slept fine so I didn't medicate.

She is tolerating the no-fenol fine, when I can get it into her. I hate to do battle with her over the enzymes when she isn't feeling well but I suspect they will help her feel better too. I'm at least glad they don't bother her. I'm not sure if the candidase is making me feel bad or perhaps I also have fifths. Hard to know right now.

We're plugging along. I'm thinking about trying raw veggies again soon. Anyone have any suggestions for good ones to try first? I'm thinking lettuce would be easy to digest, right? What else? Would fruit be easier? I made a raw strawberry smoothie yesterday am and I think we were fine but then none of us feel very good so it is hard to tell what is causing what.

Siana 04-02-2006 06:36 PM

The most difficult situation for me on SCD has been trying to figure out if my crappy disposition is because of die-off or as a reaction for food. I just never know now, but I try to keep a close eye on the food choices anyway.

I was _really_ surprised that I seem to be reacting to almonds. They're out for a while, and I'll try again next week perhaps and see if I have the same reaction (tip of tounge swollen). Jane, my almond flour isn't organic. I have my eye out for some from the US because my brother will be visiting there soon. Do you have a good bulk source?

Rollcall eh?

I'm 23, mama to 3-1/2 yo DD and 1-1/2 yo DS.

DS had reflux and then eczema as a young baby (reflux from 3 months on; eczema starting around 4 months till about 10). I believe it was the elimination diet that helped get the offending foods out. What I didn't realize at the time was that it wasn't necessarily the foods per se that was the primary issue.

My theory is that I have a leaky gut -- and have for a a couple years at least -- which lead to food proteins being passed in to my milk. As a NB, my DS had an "open gut" which allowed some of these proteins in to his blood stream and caused his immune system to react to them.

The elimination diet was a band-aid solution, because even now he has gut is leaky. About 2 months ago (15 mo), my DS's eczema started to gradually return. Now that we're on the SCD (both kids and myself), I can see DS's eczema very gradually improving. I'm holidng my breath though -- I fear restricting his diet to fewer foods will mean greater likelyhood of him becoming sensitive to those foods.

I haven't got around to getting the right supplements right now, nor have I read up enough about enzymes to get started. It's very bare-bones SCD here

artisticat 04-02-2006 07:59 PM

Arrghh! So I've come to the conclusion (begrudgingly) that dd and I are very sensitive to eggs. So now I have to figure out how to do this diet egg free. Baking egg free is going to be the hardest part. Expecially when I see most of the baked goods are all egg! But I must admit, we feel a lot better since I stopped eating them. I've never really seen a reaction from eggs in baked things, but still going to stay far away f rom them. Last week dd had 3 poops in her pants (hiding, not telling me poops which are very very unusual) and umpteen pee misses. This weekend, even with staying at my dad's place, she has told me everytime she has too pee or poo. So the eggs definetely mess with her system. I've just never noticed before because I would only have them once and a while. So I am hoping that is what is causing the excema. Interestingly the bumps on the backs of my upper arms came back. I thought these were from VIt a definciency. But thinking they might be related to the eggs? I do take CLO when I remember.

So I decided since we were so messed up anyway that this weekend was eat whatever weekend! For dd that means crackers and me icecream
But going to start all over this week.

Ok now for rollcall: I am a 28 yr old single mom to a 16 mo dd. I believe my leaky gut and yeast issues (guessing here) affected dd's gut. We had thrush on an off for 3 months last year. I have psoriasis or excema on my scalp, and dd has a flaky scalp too. I've always been watchful off dd because of dx'd allergies in other little ones in the family.

artisticat 04-02-2006 08:02 PM

Pattyla what is fifth's disease?

Siana 04-02-2006 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by artisticat
Baking egg free is going to be the hardest part. Expecially when I see most of the baked goods are all egg!
Egg Free Baking

Baked and pureed butternut or acorn squash, mashed ripe bananas, homemade apple or pearsauce can be used to substitute for eggs in a recipe. If the recipe says 2 eggs, substitute 1/2 cup of the mashed or pureed item.

Another way to replace eggs is to soften a teaspoon of gelatin in 3 tablespoons of boiling water. Stir until the gelatin is completely dissolved. Then, freeze until it has thickened a bit. Beat until frothy. This equals one egg.


I have used these most of these substitution when we were egg-free. They give great results.

Pattyla 04-02-2006 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by artisticat
Pattyla what is fifth's disease?
It is a childhood disease. Not a bad one. Fever, "slapped face rash", lacy rash on body, possible joint aches esp in adults (: I don't get it). It is just one more thing, on top of everything else. Of course I have af this weekend and it is a bad one. Thankfully dh is stepping up and taking over in a lot of things for me but now he doesn't feel good. DD seems better today so I'm thinking we are past the worst of it.

Panserbjorne 04-02-2006 11:18 PM

Jane-be very careful with zinc. Too much can be quite toxic. For a kiddo his age I don't think I'd be personally comfprtable with more than 10 mg a day. The upper limit for adults (as a supplement-not therapeutic) is 30 mg. We did some NAET and EFT. I prefer homeopathy myself. Not that they are mutually exclusive, I just feel it works better. EFT you can do yourself. It's not supposed to work as quickly as NAET, but it's supposed to work as well.

I did SCD with a 15 month old and followed it myself as she was nursing. My ds did it as well. It didn't occur to me until I was typing this that I did it without reservation. I was vegan and started eating meat when it was clear her life was in danger. I'm struggling with adding meat back now (I cut it our again after she was soing really well) and am having a really hard time. I know I need to, I just can't seem to do it. I'm trying-but maybe that's where I need to focus. IT wasnt' an option not to do it for her, maybe I need to think that way about my new babe. Anyhow, dd had reflux and celiac disease along with many other food allergies-ds had many food allergies as well. I decided on SCD because I don't believe in elimination diets and wanted to heal, not chase allergies.

We're still doing SCD by default as none of us do well on grains. I eat all fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds with butter and eggs. We do CLO and still use L glutamine, zinc, quercetin, enzymes, cal/mag and vitamineral greens (which isn't technically legal) I just got bones for broth so I'm going to just go for it and make it. I also got oxtail for the gelatin-anyone ever used that? It's weirding me out for sure, but I guess it has quite a bit of the good stuff!

nicolena 04-03-2006 08:53 AM

(oh, i lost my first reply)

hi guys!

yes, firefaery, after screwing it up the first try, i now understand i have to do it too, and i'm convinced their health is at stake even tho everyone says i am crazy to worry.

artisticat--i may be behind you soon with the eggs. i was tested and had a slight allergy to yolks and whites a while back. i'm hoping my body's changed, but i think i'm fooling myself. but i gotta eat something!

thanks for all the info jane (and i mean to write you about that mercury article--my background is writing/editing). i called stopnshop and they may get some dccc today. sorry your ds isn't getting taller right now--he will! you're doing such good work for him! my larger dd still fits is 9 month petite bateau footed pants, at 15.5 months. sigh. (i loved that brand because the newborn size fit them as preemies.) the gelatin is very good (tho i shouldn't have gotten purple grape juice!); i need to look up nutritional info on broths and gelatin; i had all that stuff in my head from my old diet/eating habits. i hope the dccc makes a better cheesecake than the yogurt.

I STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN TO ADD THE YOGURT! i am blind to that tidbit of info; please enlighten me.

patty, hitting your first virus at 2 seems pretty impressive. i hope you get thru it; it's draining. hopefully she'll want to nurse more (mine always do), and she'll get some extra good stuff into her system! plus people often say kids mature after an illness--i think it's been true with mine.

what organic juices do you use--i got woodstock farms pure pineapple (haven't opened yet) and r.w. knudsen grape. i trust them without prrof--is this the talk of a non-fanatic? am i off to buy dole in a can (say it isn't so!)

(oh and my almnds were organic, soaked and crispified! sigh.)

my time is up! hope everyone has a great day!

zanelee 04-03-2006 11:20 AM

OK, Rollcall.
I'm Jennifer, I have systemic yeast that I've passed on to my children. :
I have mercury problems due to that lying b****d of a dentist I went to around 10 years ago. I was never bf myself, so I think that that's where my problems started...
I have a dh who has some major gut issues...
A ds who has attention behavioral problems (partially vaxed ) EBF
A dd who has gut absorption problems. (No vaxing ) still BF too

We're slowing starting to work on all these things. We are on enzymes and working to get rid of the yeasty beasties. Then, hopefully we'll be able to move on to really healing guts here.

Siana 04-03-2006 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by nicolena
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN TO ADD THE YOGURT! i am blind to that tidbit of info; please enlighten me.
I think on SCD yogurt is allowed right from the start

BTVC says you can moisten DCCC with yougurt or use dripped yogurt as a DCCC replacement for the beginners diet. I see no reason not to have yogurt then right from the start. That's what I've done.

Panserbjorne 04-03-2006 12:03 PM

I believe you can start yogurt after the intro diet...we only did the intro for two days and then I waited to start yogurt because of massive dairy sensitivity issues. I intro'd the yogurt with enzymes to counter that but we still can't do any dairy. I'm actually fine with that-it was a stretch for me! OFten people with CD can't tolerate dairy in any form and that is the case for us.

Gale Force 04-03-2006 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by firefaery
Jane-be very careful with zinc. Too much can be quite toxic. For a kiddo his age I don't think I'd be personally comfprtable with more than 10 mg a day. The upper limit for adults (as a supplement-not therapeutic) is 30 mg.
I think the studies used 5 mg/day and was a six month study. But I don't have it right here so if anyone wants me to follow-up, beat on me until I post it.

Panserbjorne 04-03-2006 12:59 PM

Do you know if they took into account other supplements like multis when they did it, or was it just an accross the board supplementation? Either way, 5 mg is enough to make a difference, and not likely to cause a toxic load even with the addition of a multi. If you think of it, it would be an interesting read.

Gale Force 04-03-2006 12:59 PM

Roll call:

I'm Amanda, 37 years old. I have one son Frederick who will be 4 later this month. I started on a candida diet in March of 2003 and was very strict for 9 months. My systemic yeast symptoms disappeared. But I still have heavy metal issues and have been told since the beginning that the yeast won't be totally gone until the metal is under control. Indeed, I get nipple thrush on occasion, but it typically goes away by itself. I've come a long way since the ductal yeast. It's all been diet. I took antifungals but not in a dedicated fashion.

Gale Force 04-03-2006 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by firefaery
Do you know if they took into account other supplements like multis when they did it, or was it just an accross the board supplementation? Either way, 5 mg is enough to make a difference, and not likely to cause a toxic load even with the addition of a multi. If you think of it, it would be an interesting read.
They were infants and toddlers and just gave zinc. I've got it somewhere around here.

aileen 04-03-2006 03:20 PM

hi all.
here! i'm a 32 yo mama to a 3 yo with intense eczema. we've been dabbling in the SCD and NT diets but i'm about to go whole hog because the more i mess up the more obvious it becomes. yesterday we made a practice birthday cake (sunday ), gluten free, egg free, only kefir for dairy, but i used sugar (gasp!) and now i have cracked flaking dry skn across my eyes and nose - just where i used to slather myself with cortizone years ago. i know - practically a hand calligraphed note from the yeast. it's time - i just don't know why i'm dragging my feet so much. i'm really tired of the restrictions. all the elimination diets have really beaten me down.
dd and i are doint NAET right now, (with Levatin, for my fellow MA mamas) and i wish i was super behind it but to be honest, i don't have the faith that it'll solve things the way i feel like SCD might. i'm trying to be open and i can feel the differences as we do the treatments, but, until dd decides to wean, my gut has to be better. still, i hope after every treatment that "this'll be the one she needed to sleep more than 2 hours straight".
ugh - i should sign off, i'm staring down the barrel of at least a year of more crazy diet and i don't know which is worse - that i don't know if i can do it, or that i don't know if i can't. i need an attitude adjustment. where's that shirt i had in fourth grade?
sorry for the bummer turn there friends.
next time i check in i promise i'll be funnier.

nicolena 04-03-2006 04:01 PM

thanks for the yogurt info. i'll start again wed. i'm going for 36 hour yogurt!

oh aileen, it's so hard, huh? i've already gotten into a great big fight with my sister today. i mean BIG. (she was supposed to come help us.) sigh. but the changes i've seen in the small steps i've made so far tell me it will be worth it.

there are just so many cultural/social/emotional attachments and associations to food! even at my littles' young age! they just gorged on funky cheesecake for lunch. a dab of carrot. less than a bite of meat. and no gelatin. i just drank cold stock--gah! because of the worry over getting my amalgams warm. but all this is good even tho i still have the amalgams, right? i never had big yeast issues, tho i can't figure out what stopped them (my old ben and jerry fro yo addiction?). and now i am rambling.........

Pattyla 04-03-2006 04:59 PM

Roll call.

I'm Patty and have had a candidia issue for years but been unwilling to address it head on. Now my dd, Wisteria, who is 2 also has a candidia issue and I wish I would have done something before she came along but I didn't so here we are. We've been doing scd for 6 weeks now (and gf for 3 weeks before that)

I'm pretty discouraged today. Last night dh gave dd a bowl of applesauce for her bedtime snack. She was up forever chatting up a storm unable to go to sleep and today she is a wreck (hangover?). I just want her and I to be better. I want to feed her good food that she likes to eat. I get so sad when she asks for good healthy foods and I can't give them to her. I don't want her to develope issues about food and yet how can she not when I am telling her she can't eat carrot sticks? (she can't have anything raw yet) I feel like we have hit a plateau and I don't no how to get past it. I also have no idea how I am going to get an anti fungal into her. I'm thinking about buying a juicer so that I can make the carrot/garlic juice for us to drink. She was eating raw garlic cloves the other day (but now won't).

I also beleive that she craves certain things because she needs them but I don't know how to fulfill those needs. She craves fish oil and has for a very long time. She craves fish and will eat a lot at one sitting. She also craves fat and will eat butter or other fatty things straight as well. I don't cook low fat but I can see that she needs even more than I am offering but I'm not sure how to do that. I also wonder if she is actually needing a nutrient that is in fat but not necessarily in a high level in the particular fats she is getting if you follow. She rarely is offered beef. We have begun eating lamb several times a week starting 3 weeks ago and we also eat a lot of chicken and fish 3-5x a month. Any insight into this?

caedmyn 04-03-2006 05:21 PM

Roll call:

I'm 26 and have a 3 month old DD. She recently got a weird rash on her butt cheeks which started a few days after I started eating a lot more dairy...since then she's had blood in her poop 4 different days in the last two weeks, although I've eliminated dairy. I have a long history of low blood sugar and acne. I started the Maker's Diet on Saturday and also started taking digestive enzymes. I really hope this helps (me too but especially DD) diet was already pretty much the same as the Maker's Diet 3rd stage, so I don't know if starting from the beginning will help or not.

OK, now for my questions...
1) I bought the Enzymedica Digest Gold enzymes...the Houston ones are quite a bit cheaper but don't have nearly as many enzymes in them. Are they just as good or would I need to take more or more than one type with the Houston ones?

2) How long do the enzymes last? It often takes me an hour to finish a meal between tending to my DD...are the enzymes still good? And sometimes I snack constantly throughout the I need to take enzymes with everything I eat, or if I am snacking on raw foods and only eating a little can I skip the enzymes?

3) The Maker's Diet recommends adding yogurt or kefir after the first 2 weeks, and others have recommended them for probiotics...should I add them in a couple of weeks or wait, since it seems that my daughter may have a problem with dairy? I do have raw milk so it would be raw milk yogurt or kefir.

4) Any suggestions on combating low blood sugar while I'm doing this? The diet is so restricted the first couple of weeks it seems like I'm not getting enough to eat and have low blood sugar feelings constantly. I'm eat a fair amount of protein and fat (lots of eggs and almonds) so I'm not sure what else to do.

5) I read that only raw food has this correct? If it is it would explain why I had so many problems with low blood sugar after eating grains...I usually ate them by themselves and they were always cooked! So should I eat something raw each time I eat?

chasmyn 04-03-2006 09:00 PM


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