Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!! - Page 11 - Mothering Forums
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#301 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 12:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bestbirths
Now, if I could afford it, my son would be getting EPD. Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization for our preferred allergy treatment of choice. It might be called something else now in the US. Cost for just one person would be $500 every 2 months. Sigh.
Sounded great until I read this: "The most common problem when EPD does not work is intestinal dysbiosis."

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I saw a 2 hour long lecture by the creator of houston's enzymes, and he explained this.
Oooooh, lucky you, does Devin Houston really look like Kevin Bacon? :
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#302 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 12:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by april2462
See here for some recent research on the effects of stress on rat gut permeability (lovely!) in which they talk about how the gut gets 'leaky'

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060520/food.asp
That's a great pic to prove how small the bacteria are in proportion to the epithelial cells ... so who's to say it's not them that are "leaking" and not the food particles.

I also had another thought... what about bfing mama's who notice dairy allergies in their babes. What is leaking to the bloodstream then? This REALLY should be studied. Seems simple to figure out whether dairy peptides in bloodstream/breastmilk is normal or not.

I need to win the lottery!!!
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#303 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 12:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovinglife
Thank you, Caedmyn, for the input. Anyone else have experience w. breastmilk on the SC diet? I read about people paying exhorbitant amounts for goat colostrum, and it got me thinking!
Let me put it this way: if I didn't wean DS, he wouldn't have needed the SCD. Even with my damaged gut.

Anyone who tells you breastmilk is not "SCD legal" is beyond stupid and has no idea of the amount of immunoglobulins, cytokines, macrophages and all that other good stuff in bm. Which btw increase with probiotic supplementation, I just read a research article today but lost the link.
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#304 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Bestbirths
One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey. We used the provocation neutralization testing method.
Can you tell me a little more about this method? Can a naturopath do this?
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#305 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EBG
You can do SCD with good enzynmes. Have you read Karen DeFelice's book Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disroders or something like it. She has a chapter on leaky gut and several refs to SCD. Anyway, Peptizyde(for casein and gluten) and HN-Zyme Prime(broad-spectrum) has allowed most people to get off restrictive diets. These are specially formulated enzymes. There are stories about kids who were down to eating like 5 foods and after a month on enzymes they could eat pretty much everything. The website is enzymestuff.com, it's very informative.
I haven't read her book yet - I'll look into it. I am currently taking Betaine HCL for about a month now, and just started NoFenol a few days ago. Maybe I just need to give it more time and back off the cheese. It seems to be the cheese for me and not the yogurt, I think. I'm not sure about DH because he's not doing SCD like I am. Thanks for the recommendation. :
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#306 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.
Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist
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#307 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.
Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist
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#308 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 02:06 AM
 
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Sounded great until I read this: "The most common problem when EPD does not work is intestinal dysbiosis."
ARGH!

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Oooooh, lucky you, does Devin Houston really look like Kevin Bacon?
He's a cutie. I don't think he looked like Kevin Bacon, maybe he was six degrees from looking like Kevin Bacon.

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Can you tell me a little more about this method? Can a naturopath do this?
It is done by an allergist, a special kind of allergist. I don't think naturopaths do this kind of testing. It's been so long. Our son did this provocation neutralization allergy testing when he was age 2 to 4, then he switched to EPD from age 4 to 6, then he didn't get the yearly booster you are supposed to get, and I think the EPD wore off when he was ten, just in time for him to regress around age 12. I wonder if EPD wearing off had something to do with his decline, but we'll probably never know.
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#309 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 04:16 AM
 
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[QUOTE=caedmyn]I was reading that liquid chlorophyll is good for healing, and I'm also thinking of taking a B complex vitamin...QUOTE]

Let me know if you can find a liquid chlorophyll that doesn't contain parabens. The one I bought (didn't read the label ) has them, but when I looked at the HFS, the others had it too : , so at least I didn't feel too bad.

Also, I took it first thing when I woke up, as a shot chased by water. I found it to have an ahem... binding effect, so I stopped taking it. Keep meaning to take it with a meal, but it's in the fridge (out of sight...).

Samantha, Mama to Elizabeth, September 24, 2004
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#310 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bestbirths
One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey.
I had RAST testing done for dd. I went into it realizing that there is a high rate of false positives. I looked at it this way; at least I had *some* sort of guideline to go by.

I believe in it now because it did show that dd was highly allergic to wheat/gluten. As soon as we eliminated this from my diet her dark circles, red bumps and general *sick* look improved. (It took a good 8 weeks to get out of her system.) Her sleeping did improve too for a little while.

We found a pediatric allergist/immunologist who did the testing for dd - - who, by the way, explained the "leaky gut theory" to me that day!

Jane, I hope it'll show something about ds. One thing I wish I had done that I didn't do was have more foods tested. As dd grows, I realize that it would be really helpful now to have the foods tested that we left out all those months agao.
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#311 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chasmyn
I haven't read her book yet - I'll look into it. I am currently taking Betaine HCL for about a month now, and just started NoFenol a few days ago. Maybe I just need to give it more time and back off the cheese. It seems to be the cheese for me and not the yogurt, I think. I'm not sure about DH because he's not doing SCD like I am. Thanks for the recommendation. :
Yes, cheese is not good for yeast problems, the mold somehow aggravates the situation. Are you taking No-Fenol for yeast between meals?
the SCD yogurt and dry curd cottage cheese is pretty much the only dairy you can have if you have a yeast issue. I'm also eating kefir which is not lactose-free but I'm hoping the bacteria and good yeast will compensate for that.

Also, according to DeFelice, you should wait about 3 weeks to judge the enzymes. Die-off is very common during this time. Are you taking a broad-spectrum enzyme before meals?
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#312 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 09:29 AM
 
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[QUOTE=MommyofPunkiePie]
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
I was reading that liquid chlorophyll is good for healing, and I'm also thinking of taking a B complex vitamin...QUOTE]

Let me know if you can find a liquid chlorophyll that doesn't contain parabens. The one I bought (didn't read the label ) has them, but when I looked at the HFS, the others had it too : , so at least I didn't feel too bad.

Also, I took it first thing when I woke up, as a shot chased by water. I found it to have an ahem... binding effect, so I stopped taking it. Keep meaning to take it with a meal, but it's in the fridge (out of sight...).
Ahhh!! What are parabens? I'm guessing they're bad?
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#313 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 09:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
What group is this and who is this person?

I wonder what her theory of food allergies, true anaphylactic reactions, are?

Histamine responses can be caused by bad gut bugs too.

In one way I agree with her b/c as you know I totally discount the "food allergy" theory per se. It's all about how the food is or is not digested, it's a functional problem, not an immune system problem. The immune system is only the alarm that something else is wrong.
We should start a "I don't know what to do" club...no wait, we already have one going

It's candidasupport at yahoo groups...Bee is a 60-some year old lady who apparently had life-long problems with candida and finally cured herself. She has this exact protol you are supposed to follow. Diet (meat, lots of healthy fats, eggs, and low carb veggies), supplements (vit c, vit b complex, chlorophyll, vit e, CLO, cal/mag), antifungals, and probiotics (some cabbage liquid, it smells nasty!). My main issue with it (besides the fact that I'm not sure I can actually stay on the diet) is that you are supposed to follow it exactly, no deviations for different people/situations. Plus I'm not sure how accurate some of her stuff is--she told me that nuts are high in carbs! She finally clarified that she meant they have starchy carbs, but she was still saying they are high in carbs when they clearly aren't. Oh, and she cured herself of candida but now has some other problems, which kind of makes me wonder how healthy her protocol is long-term (she does follow NT guidelines).

She does have a file somewhere that has her allergy theory...I'll have to find it and maybe post it.
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#314 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
That's a great pic to prove how small the bacteria are in proportion to the epithelial cells ... so who's to say it's not them that are "leaking" and not the food particles.

I also had another thought... what about bfing mama's who notice dairy allergies in their babes. What is leaking to the bloodstream then? This REALLY should be studied. Seems simple to figure out whether dairy peptides in bloodstream/breastmilk is normal or not.

I need to win the lottery!!!
I've read somewhere (though I cannot find the reference at the moment) that bovine casein, at least, is too big to actually get into breastmilk. I've only seen one study that seeks to identify proteins in milk but I'm sure that they have yet to identify them all. (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum)

I'll go out on a limb with an hypothesis:

Let's suppose that mama, with her leaky gut, is leaking the microbes that thrive in that environment, in addition to large molecules (proteins, sugars, etc). Those microbes and molecules make it past the first few layers of cells into the bloodstream, then into the lymph system. Those microbes/molecules could be sequestered in the lymph nodes. The presence of foreign stuff in the lymph system presumably activates an immune response, with some proportion of those active components (not the microbes/moleculars) being secreted into breastmilk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#315 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommyofPunkiePie
Ahhh!! What are parabens? I'm guessing they're bad?
parabens are synthetic compounds (emulsifiers, I think) that are also endocrine disruptors - methylparaben and propylparaben are the most common i've seen. yes, they are bad. look for them (and avoid) in skin care products too.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#316 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bluets
parabens are synthetic compounds (emulsifiers, I think) that are also endocrine disruptors - methylparaben and propylparaben are the most common i've seen. yes, they are bad. look for them (and avoid) in skin care products too.
This is the chlorophyll I was thinking of getting
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=NWY-03501
ingredients besides chlorophyll are water, glycerin, and oil of mint. Does that sound okay?
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#317 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
This is the chlorophyll I was thinking of getting
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=NWY-03501
ingredients besides chlorophyll are water, glycerin, and oil of mint. Does that sound okay?
Are you seeing any benefit from the chlorophyll? I was taking some, but I couldn't tell a difference. Just checked mine and it doesn't have any undesirable extras. World Organics
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#318 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bluets
I've read somewhere (though I cannot find the reference at the moment) that bovine casein, at least, is too big to actually get into breastmilk. I've only seen one study that seeks to identify proteins in milk but I'm sure that they have yet to identify them all. (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum)

I'll go out on a limb with an hypothesis:

Let's suppose that mama, with her leaky gut, is leaking the microbes that thrive in that environment, in addition to large molecules (proteins, sugars, etc). Those microbes and molecules make it past the first few layers of cells into the bloodstream, then into the lymph system. Those microbes/molecules could be sequestered in the lymph nodes. The presence of foreign stuff in the lymph system presumably activates an immune response, with some proportion of those active components (not the microbes/moleculars) being secreted into breastmilk.
That's an intersting hypothesis. Now if we could only all get together & do the research!

I don't believe that about the bovine caesin though. Can't be true.
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#319 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 02:19 PM
 
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Are you seeing any benefit from the chlorophyll? I was taking some, but I couldn't tell a difference. Just checked mine and it doesn't have any undesirable extras. World Organics
Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.
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#320 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.
i think the glycerin also has mild antibiotic properties.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#321 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.
Sounds great. How much do you take? On the bottle I got I think that it says something very little like 1t. I had been taking more. I now just take a little swig of the bottle because I could never pour w/o dripping and getting something stained green.

Oh, and mamas....I bought bones today. DH, who likes meat quite a lot, is not looking forward to the making of stock because he thinks that it will stink up the house. Which I am sure it will (we have never cooked meat in this house before), but I would have thought that he would like the smell. I read him the recipe from NT last night, which just cracks me up, to show what lengths I am going for my/our health. So the full-on plunge into SCD is starting soon.

ETA: Guess what just came in the mail??? No excuses now.
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#322 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 06:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pattyla
Any ideas on why the proteases would be making my liver hurt??
Well enzymes are recycled from bloodstream right? They must go thru liver?

Have you had tests done? (sorry if you posted about this before)

I'll check Karen's book...

I seem to remember her saying that all toxins are filtered out thru liver too so die off can tax liver.
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#323 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EBG
Yes, cheese is not good for yeast problems, the mold somehow aggravates the situation. Are you taking No-Fenol for yeast between meals?
the SCD yogurt and dry curd cottage cheese is pretty much the only dairy you can have if you have a yeast issue. I'm also eating kefir which is not lactose-free but I'm hoping the bacteria and good yeast will compensate for that.

Also, according to DeFelice, you should wait about 3 weeks to judge the enzymes. Die-off is very common during this time. Are you taking a broad-spectrum enzyme before meals?
I've been taking them both at the start of the meal. (the betaine hcl and the no-fenol). Should I be doing it differently or adding even more (other kinds)?

I'm definitely off the cheese - the acne after eating it isn't worth the risk.

I'm trying to add more veggies in, too - I feel very much like all I eat is protein because of trying to go slowly. As more veggies come in season, I get to add more. I think if I can change those ratios I might feel better too.
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#324 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 06:17 PM
 
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Sounds great. How much do you take? On the bottle I got I think that it says something very little like 1t. I had been taking more. I now just take a little swig of the bottle because I could never pour w/o dripping and getting something stained green.
The recommendation I saw is 1 Tbsp 3x/day. How does it taste? I don't know if I can handle another nasty-tasting supplement!
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#325 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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The recommendation I saw is 1 Tbsp 3x/day. How does it taste? I don't know if I can handle another nasty-tasting supplement!
Ok, then I need more. I might be doing that much only once a day. Taste? Not so bad. I don't actaully mind it. It is very green tasting, if you know what I mean.

General question: how quickly did you add things back into your diet? I just realized that I am starting this just as summer is coming and everything is going to start showing up at our farmers markets. I would hate to miss out on everything.
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#326 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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No-Fenol is for between meals, so that it can really get to work on the yeasties
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#327 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No-Fenol is for between meals, so that it can really get to work on the yeasties


Right then, I'll be changing that. Thanks!
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#328 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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General question: how quickly did you add things back into your diet? I just realized that I am starting this just as summer is coming and everything is going to start showing up at our farmers markets. I would hate to miss out on everything.
You're singing my song. For me, about every 3-4 days I add something new. Although I've had a couple of times where I did one thing every other day. But then had to backtrack when I had a reaction (acne or loose stool).

So really, one thing every 3-4 days is best. Saves time in the long run, really.
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#329 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 07:12 PM
 
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I posted a little while back about thinking of adding oats to dd1's diet. (DO they or do they NOT contain gluten?) I swear the list dd's allergist gave us said oats were a good substitue but then NT says they are gluten containing grains.

Anyway, NT mamas what do you think of this:?

I am soaking Quinoa flakes in some whey and yogurt right now. I'm hoping that they'll be useable tomorrow - - maybe cooked w/some butter for dd.

I did not follow any particular recipe, I just added 2 tbsp. of whey and when I realized that was not enough, just dumped some yogurt on top, mixed it, and covered it up. Is this okay?

I know I can post over in the NT thread, but when it comes to dd's I want the advice over here yk?
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#330 of 770 Old 06-13-2006, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
I posted a little while back about thinking of adding oats to dd1's diet. (DO they or do they NOT contain gluten?) I swear the list dd's allergist gave us said oats were a good substitue but then NT says they are gluten containing grains.

Anyway, NT mamas what do you think of this:?

I am soaking Quinoa flakes in some whey and yogurt right now. I'm hoping that they'll be useable tomorrow - - maybe cooked w/some butter for dd.

I did not follow any particular recipe, I just added 2 tbsp. of whey and when I realized that was not enough, just dumped some yogurt on top, mixed it, and covered it up. Is this okay?

I know I can post over in the NT thread, but when it comes to dd's I want the advice over here yk?
I think oats do have gluten but not very much. If I remember right you only need 2 Tbsp. of whey/yogurt/whatever per cup of grains, so that should be plenty unless you have more than a couple of cups of grains.
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