Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!! - Page 13 - Mothering Forums
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#361 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
We also use the Houstonbrand enzymes and seem to have success with them.
How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzymes and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???
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#362 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by violin4
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

Also, any suggestions you can give me for packing food for a trip would be greatly appreciated. Especially things that would work for those in my family who are SCD and not be totally gross for my two teenage boys who are not. Trying to coordinate this all is more than my brain can keep up with (especially in hypoglycemia mode).
Applegate Farms has three types of lunch meat that are legal: (This from the pecanbread yahoo group.) Smoked turkey (but ONLY the smoked kind), turkey bologna and turkey salami. Apparently the hot dogs are legal too. I've been eating the smoked turkey all along and don't have any problems w/it. The bologna is so-so but the salami is imo.

When we travel we pack muffins, crackers, cheese, boiled eggs, & the Applegate turkey.
hth
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#363 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonshine
How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzyme and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???
about the bloating. I totally know what you mean. You don't *have* to feel awful when doing this diet. I only felt yucky about 5 days into it but I do remember feeling bloated A LOT. I attributed this to die off.

I say that the enzymes are working for us because we are not suffering any ill effects from them (except when I gave too much to dd too fast and she really had a bad reaction: sweating, tantrums, etc..) I also say that they are working for us because after almost 5 months of doing this I don't really use them anymore. I think they helped heal me quickly (or relatively quickly) - - not that I'm saying I'm totally healed yet. . . However, I am much better.

DD2 still takes enzymes w/every meal and seems to be doing okay as far as I can tell. (She still doesn't eat a lot of solids.)

DD1 on the other hand is my focus right now. She's the one using the most enzymes w/meals and between.

ETA moonshine - - it's way to early to tell if this diet is working or not. I think in BTVC it says give it a month.
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#364 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:34 AM
 
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Applegate farms hotdogs are yummy but expensive (of course!).

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#365 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:36 AM
 
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Oh, I know it is too early. But ya know, before I started it, but knew that I would, I could think that it was going to miracously fix everything. Now that I am actually doing it, I would hate to find out that I am not going to get my fantasy.

As far as the bloating, it is my major symtom/problem. At least now I don't have to change pants by the end of the day, like I did a couple months ago. Course, I would like it also to help my depression, occassional acne (which is apparently a good sign that my hormone levels are up), and this strange "soft tissue mass" I have in my finger. But for starters I would just like the bloating to go away.

I think that my yogurt turned out just fine this time. Thank goodness. I would not be able to make it through another day on the intro diet w/o yogurt. I did eat 2 hamburgers for lunch today, and even enjoyed it. But man, I am dying for a fruit or veggie!
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#366 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 07:43 AM
 
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Moonshine--I hear you! I was also a super-long-term vegetarian before this, but dd didn't want to go near fish or fowl alone (who can blame her?), so I bravely took the first bite of turkey when she was in the hospital. Ironically, turkey was always my least favorite thing when I was a kid b/c it's so dry.

So here we are two 1/2 weeks into this, and I've even learned to make an okay chicken burger! I can't bear to *touch* meat, though. My dh, also a vegetarian since he was a teen (and he's 44) can, surprisingly, touch meat, but won't eat it yet. sigh. dd has asked him a few times to please join her. He says he's working his way up to it. I get a little frustrated about this. "She's your kid. You'd walk through fire for her! Eat the darn meat!". He says he'd rather walk through fire....

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#367 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Annikate
Applegate Farms has three types of lunch meat that are legal: (This from the pecanbread yahoo group.) Smoked turkey (but ONLY the smoked kind), turkey bologna and turkey salami. Apparently the hot dogs are legal too. I've been eating the smoked turkey all along and don't have any problems w/it. The bologna is so-so but the salami is imo.

When we travel we pack muffins, crackers, cheese, boiled eggs, & the Applegate turkey.
hth
Once I bought the hot dogs and read the label which included "spices"... well I e-mailed them to ask what kind of "spices" because this is a term used to hide MSG. They never answered so I won't buy this stuff again.
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#368 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:30 AM
 
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#369 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:12 AM
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This is what candex says about itslef:

For over six years, Candex, a natural candida treatment, has provided the most potent blend of plant based, fiber digesting enzymes available anywhere, and helped countless people live richer, fuller lives. Because of its success, imitations have begun to appear, most of which combine cellulase with mega-doses of protease (protein digesting) enzymes. Because protein digesting enzymes digest whatever proteins they encounter, they destroy the healthy bacteria (acidophilus, bifidus, etc.) that help to keep Candida Albicans under control, Since people who suffer with Candida symptoms already have low levels of healthy bacteria, this is clearly inappropriate.

They also say their product causes no die-off.

I think it's false advertising. I haven't tried their product but if it doesn't cause die-off, how can it kill the yeast? Also, proteases have not been porven to harm beneficial bacteria. Where's the research? If they digest whatever protein they encounter, then we are being digested away from inside out as we speak...
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#370 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovinglife
Moonshine--I hear you! I was also a super-long-term vegetarian before this, but dd didn't want to go near fish or fowl alone (who can blame her?), so I bravely took the first bite of turkey when she was in the hospital. Ironically, turkey was always my least favorite thing when I was a kid b/c it's so dry.

So here we are two 1/2 weeks into this, and I've even learned to make an okay chicken burger!
Wow! Now that is dedication and commitment. It is amazing what we will do for our kids.
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#371 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonshine
As far as the bloating, it is my major symtom/problem. At least now I don't have to change pants by the end of the day, like I did a couple months ago. Course, I would like it also to help my depression, occassional acne (which is apparently a good sign that my hormone levels are up), and this strange "soft tissue mass" I have in my finger. But for starters I would just like the bloating to go away.
The diet (and supplements) have helped my depression. Check out this thread if you haven't already.
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#372 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by violin4
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?
Not the lunchmeat turkey, the turkey hot dogs. Totally different. Unless they suddenly changed their ingredients since last week, LOL.

The bacon information I got from page 73 of BTVC; must be crisply fried.

Jen 47 DS C 2/03  angel.gif04/29/08/ DD S 10/28/09 DH Bill '97.

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#373 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 12:36 PM
 
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Mamajessica, what brand of CLO do you use? And where can I read about the proper balance of CLO and vitamins? Thanks!

Caedmyn, thank you for all that great information, especially about the enzymes. I appreciate it.

EBG, thank you so much for your response. Isn't it awful to see our babies with these problems? I'm sorry you're going through it, too.

Annikate, my dd is 10 mths. Thanks for the info on CLO. I'll check to see what my WF carries.

I have a few more questions if that's okay:

Do I need to get the book on SCD or is the website information sufficient? From what I've read, I can see that the diet starves the yeast, but in what way does it actually heal the gut? Aren't the enzymes and probiotics really doing the healing, while the diet is just creating a clean environment for them to do their work? I ask because I intend to follow it, but I don't want to eat the dairy that is on the "legal" list (except for 24 hour yogurt when I can make it). Is it going to be counterproductive to not include all the foods that are legal?


I just finished Goodpapa's probiotics thread and noticed that many of you are over there, too.

What yogurt maker do you use?
What starter do you use?
What culture do you add (if any)?

If using probiotic supplements (either for ingesting in capsule form or as a culture), what brands/strains do you recommend?

Would anyone mind giving me the run-down of all the goodies you are taking/eating? I want to make sure I don't miss anything. I'm going to get on buying everything today (I'm giving dd Udo's infant and toddler formula probiotics for the time being).

So far, I'm looking for (prior to making my own yogurt):

Probiotics (still not sure on brand/strain)
Enzymes (both for digestion/healing gut and killing yeast)
CLO (need to make sure it includes proper vitamins)
Zinc?? Is anyone giving this? In what form?

Am I missing anything?

Thank you all so much for helping me. I'll pay it forward, once I have a handle on it. The last time I did this much research was when I undertook the vax topic. However, I had my whole first pregnancy and dc's babyhood to study! I feel like I'm trying to master trigonometry in summer school! ACK
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#374 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 02:26 PM
 
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I just bought fresh local beautiful strawberries. I want to eat them!!!!!!!

Reading in BTVC last night, it says that after the diareaha and cramping subsides, you can move beyond the intro diet. For many w/o severe problems, 1-2 days on the intro diet is enough. So I have neither problem, actually today, have not been able to go at all.

I take it to mean that moving beyond the intro diet means slowly introducing foods one at a time, for example from stage 1. Is this correct? I did have a banana today with breakfast because I didn't have time for much more than yogurt and I was heading out the door for my work shift at the coop, and knew I would die of hunger. I actually felt quite weak from hunger by the time I got home.

I am dying to add more foods, but don't want to have to go through this again, and want to do it right the first time. I was wondering if the banana made my bloating and constipation worse, so have opted not to eat one now.

Any helpful suggestions on how to proceed very welcome!
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#375 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 02:32 PM
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Do I need to get the book on SCD or is the website information sufficient? From what I've read, I can see that the diet starves the yeast, but in what way does it actually heal the gut? Aren't the enzymes and probiotics really doing the healing, while the diet is just creating a clean environment for them to do their work? I ask because I intend to follow it, but I don't want to eat the dairy that is on the "legal" list (except for 24 hour yogurt when I can make it). Is it going to be counterproductive to not include all the foods that are legal?

I have to confess I don't have the book. I learned everything from the websites. pecanbread.com, breakingtheviciouscycle.info, breakingtheviciouscycle.org, scdiet.org, scdrecipe.com, healingcrow.com

The diet IS healing the gut by eliminating the offending foods-the complex carbohydrates that we have difficulty digesting. In this way you starve the bad bugs in the gut.
You also need to avoid known allergens in the beginning.

The enzymes speed up the healing process by pre-digesting the food, thus making it more available for absorption, they also take the load off your immune system, they clean out the dead cells, debris, toxins, etc. Taken between meals proteases fight bacteria, yeast, parazites and viruses, cellulases also fight yeast.

Probiotics- unfortunately most of them are useless, according to lab tests. Some brands that did pass the test: Culturelle-but it has inulin which is illegal, however, it's great for bacterial overgrowth
Natren's Healthy Trinity, Primal Defense but SCD doesn't allow bifidus...
So your best bet is the yogurt. The bacteria break down the lactose, so it's not a problem. they also break down most of the casein. Also, unpasturized dairy has healing properties. the next best thing is cultured non-homogenized milk. scdiet.org has probiotic recommendations, I think it's Lyo-san.

For starters most of us use Yogourmet Freeze-dried starter, most HFS carry it, also several websites online. $3.00-$5.00 for a box which has 6 1-quart servings. You can also use Dannon, full-fat plain. I also found this at whole foods:Erivan acidophilus yogurt, has no additives or other suspicious strains. It makes a yummy yogurt. But you can use any yogurt without gums, pectin and additives. You can also make yogurt with goat milk or coconut milk.

I use SAlton yogurt maker, available from Amazon or bedbathandbeyond.com

Zinc- I use Twinlab zinc caps, it has 30mg zinc, gelatin, MCT, purified water and mag. stearate. I think Houston Nutraceuticals has a liquid zinc?

CLO- I use Carlson's lemon flavored (ignore crazy warnings about removing vitamins), but if you want a high vitamin CLO, Radiant Life, Blue Ice, Garden of Life, Nordic Naturals are all recommended.

L-glutamine to heal the gut: vitacost has a 2 lb container for less than 3o bucks. NSI brand.

Vitamin C- sodium ascorbate or acerola (NOW), amla, amalaki powders

I also use a baby vitamin for my kids, Baby-Plex sugar-free which has no additives except for orange flavor and vit A and D from fish liver oil.

Kal dolomite powder or Super Cal-Mag from Nature's Life.
Don't forget sublingual B12, folic acid, magnesium, selenium....

Enzymes: Houston's Zyme Prime or Enzymedica Digest Gold for foods, Peptizyde for dairy/gluten and general "cleaning"
No-Fenol, Candidase, Candizyme for yeast
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#376 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by violin4
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?
You might be referring to my mentioning that I thought that it might be made without sugar, and I was going to check. It obviously isn't legal, because carageenan isn't legal. And I have no idea which turkey bacon I thought didn't have sugar because when we went to Whole Foods yesterday I checked, and you are all right, it does in fact have sugar. I must be misremembering when I was able to eat it. Sorry.
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#377 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 05:27 PM
 
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HEY! I just checked my Applegate label too (been eating it all along without looking at the label) and even the smoked turkey has carageenan! Geez, I just listened to the *gurus* over on you know what site and took their word.
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#378 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 06:07 PM
 
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If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.
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#379 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shanna4000
If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.
Butting in here to ask how you do your yogurt -- do you put the lid on the mason jar? And do you put the yogurt maker lid over the whole thing? Do you have to prop the lid open at all to regulate the temp? Give me the "for dummies" version, please! I gave up on 24hour raw yogurt but if a mason jar can solve my problems I have plenty of those!
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#380 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 06:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peri Patetic
Butting in here to ask how you do your yogurt -- do you put the lid on the mason jar? And do you put the yogurt maker lid over the whole thing? Do you have to prop the lid open at all to regulate the temp? Give me the "for dummies" version, please! I gave up on 24hour raw yogurt but if a mason jar can solve my problems I have plenty of those!
I use a mason jar with the lid on, but don't put the yogurt maker lid on at all.
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#381 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 06:53 PM
 
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If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.
does the mason jar help with raw milk yogurt? how does it help? i have a salton and have been using raw milk, the consistency is a little weird, but it tastes ok so i've been eating it anyway.

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#382 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:10 PM
 
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Very, very interesting! Thanks for these.
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#383 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by artisticat
Ok so I don't get how you can eat bacon once a week. Won't that me consuming sugar? How is that being fanatical? That just doesn't make since to me.
Elaine has said it has to be fried crisply so all the sugar comes out in the fat. Never made sense to me either.
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#384 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache
Mamas, I need help.

My head is swimming. I just finished reading this thread, and I've read some of the sticky above. There is just so much to take in.

Can I explain our situation and ask for your advice?

DD (10 mths) was born in a hospital (our other children were born at home), and I unfortunately received antibiotics while in labor. After she was born, we figured out that she was dairy sensitive (she would throw up a lot and have really bad gas). When I eliminated it, she was just fine. At about 5 or 6 mths old, I added it back in, in small amounts. She didn't seem to have any issues with it.

Then, when dd was 8 mths old, a lot of things happened all at once, like within a couple of weeks. I'm still trying to figure out how/if they're all related.

BTW, we don't vax, we eat mostly organic and all that. We have no family history of allergies. I would post on the eczema tribe thread, but I really believe the antibiotics I got in labor were the beginning of my dd's problems. Please help!

TIA
Welcome!

Antibiotics were the cause with us too! Also I suspect hospital acquired bad gut bugs too ... DS's gut flora was weak because of me ... enabled colonization of some nasty stuff b/c of the environment.

Also full body eczema appeared in DS after starting cereals as his first food. It was yeast/bad bacteria growing out of contro showing up on the skin.

CLO dosing and recs here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Thank goodness you didn't vax!!!

((NO vaxing for any newbies reading this, okay? Promise me that at least until your babe's gut heals if you cannot say "never ever" like me.))
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#385 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:35 PM
 
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Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist
You mean radiation or chemo? UGH

Is your family pressuring you?
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#386 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EBG
Probiotics- unfortunately most of them are useless, according to lab tests. Some brands that did pass the test: Culturelle-but it has inulin which is illegal, however, it's great for bacterial overgrowth
Actually there is a version of Culturelle without inulin/FOS that is sold in regular drugstores in the wide box.
http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...Y-PLST-0-BRAND

The tall box sold in hf stores is a different formula with the inulin, weird huh.
http://www.vitacost.com/CAGCulturell...OPFEED-froogle
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#387 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by moonshine
How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzymes and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???
Could you be constipated and that is why the bloating? You can try magnesium supplements for that.

re: Wondering if Diet is Working on Day 1

Actually I knew right away it was working for me but it really does take more time with most people. Plus I had several months of raw milk kefir before that, and sugar free wheat free diet before that, which really made a difference.
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#388 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache
What yogurt maker do you use?
What starter do you use?
What culture do you add (if any)?

Am I missing anything?
I made my yogurt in half gallon canning jars in oven. I heat up the oven to 150, turn it off and leave the oven light on. Put milk/starter in there between 100-110 and it stays there for the full 24 h. Do first with water to check temps. I need a pizza stone under the jars to keep warmth in there in winter and not in summer.

I use Yogourmet powder starter for my raw milk yogurt (not technically SCD legal but I'm convinced of raw milk benefits). I use ProGurt non dairy starter for DS's goat yogurt ... he reacts to cow dairy but does goat yogurt/butter just fine. Not cheese. Yes culturing yogurt does predigest the proteins.

Double check Cheat Sheet for other suggestions. I think coconut oil is a good thing to use regularly too.

Oh and zinc, I used OptiZinc by Source Naturals but DS gets uber expensive Brainchild
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#389 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EBG
This is what candex says about itslef:

For over six years, Candex, a natural candida treatment, has provided the most potent blend of plant based, fiber digesting enzymes available anywhere, and helped countless people live richer, fuller lives. Because of its success, imitations have begun to appear, most of which combine cellulase with mega-doses of protease (protein digesting) enzymes. Because protein digesting enzymes digest whatever proteins they encounter, they destroy the healthy bacteria (acidophilus, bifidus, etc.) that help to keep Candida Albicans under control, Since people who suffer with Candida symptoms already have low levels of healthy bacteria, this is clearly inappropriate.

They also say their product causes no die-off.

I think it's false advertising. I haven't tried their product but if it doesn't cause die-off, how can it kill the yeast? Also, proteases have not been porven to harm beneficial bacteria. Where's the research? If they digest whatever protein they encounter, then we are being digested away from inside out as we speak...
Devin Houston thinks this is just marketing, to make their supplement seem different and not "old" as the newer ones could indeed be superior b/c they do contain proteases for "clean up".

I personally did not see die off, just improvement, when I had thrush while bfing.
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#390 of 770 Old 06-15-2006, 10:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by violin4
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

Also, any suggestions you can give me for packing food for a trip would be greatly appreciated. Especially things that would work for those in my family who are SCD and not be totally gross for my two teenage boys who are not. Trying to coordinate this all is more than my brain can keep up with (especially in hypoglycemia mode).

Thanks,

Kara
Whole Foods makes plain house roasted turkey and roast beef and we use that for deli meats. You could always just roast your own and get a cool electric knife (I've always wanted one of those...)

Trip ideas: waffles, muffins, cookies, peanut butter brownies, dripped yogurt and jam or sliced fruit sandwiches, hard boiled eggs, cheese, apple slices dunked in lemon juice so they don't turn brown. Fruit is so great this time of year: cherries, grapes, plums very portable.

Avocado and fresh salsa are portable for morning brunch eggs at restaurant. Cheese and SCD bread or muffin to round out salad, plain veggies, meat or fish dinner ordered at restaurant.
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