do you get a pap smear every 12 months? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums
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#241 of 265 Old 06-22-2006, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by talia rose
Can you find a midwife you like to do a yearly womans check up and make it a day to love and nuture your health?
How nicely said! I hadn't thought of it that way, but I do love my visits with my midwife; her company is a real treat, and I feel I get the very best in excellent medical care. But the idea of it being a day of doing something *for* me, instead of something that needs to be done, is a really nice one. Thanks for putting it that way!
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#242 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 04:53 AM
 
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"when I referred to the HPV vax, I was talking ME getting it and I'm a fully grown woman - at the ripe old age of 32

Don't know about Ireland, but in the US the HPV vax is being targetted at pre-teen girls. How long before they add it to the toddler vax'es? Don't laugh--they already give HepB at birth :"

- Hi EVC, thanks for the feedback. Here it hasn't passed out medecines board yet (we're kinda slow here I guess), but yes it is under review for girls of 9 - 10, basically pre-pubescent girls. The rubella booster here is given to girls of 11/12 (the last year of junior school) so it's likely that the HPV vaccine will be the same.
Pardon my lack of understanding, EVERY Mom wants to protect her children of couse, but I can't see the logic in giving a child a vaccine - either HPV, or Hep B for that matter, before they are likely to need it.
- By the way, and this will make you laugh, I didn't get a Hep B vaccine until I went to college! I as 17!!!
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#243 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 11:18 AM
 
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[QUOTE=DavinaTPardon my lack of understanding, EVERY Mom wants to protect her children of couse, but I can't see the logic in giving a child a vaccine - either HPV, or Hep B for that matter, before they are likely to need it.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I am reluctant to get this further off-topic, but again, from a public health perspective: we need to realize that there are a whole lot of children exposed to sexual activity before puberty. It's horrible and a whole other story, but it is a fact of life. For those who believe vaccination can eradicate disease, it is more-than-logical to vaccinate as early as possible. There are people - not only children - who will be exposed to disease, especially STDs, against their will, and there are diseases that can be transmitted without sexual contact.

I would be interested to see the original question in poll format; anyone else?
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#244 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 11:24 AM
 
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Well where I live, hepB isn't even offered until age 12 and we do not have higher rates of people getting hepb, so even if you are pro vax, I still can't see giving babies the hepb vax.

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#245 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LizD
we need to realize that there are a whole lot of children exposed to sexual activity before puberty.
Rather than give a vaccine that does not help, why not advocate for ending child sexual abuse?
Basically, with the vaccine, you are saying that child sexual abuse is okay, because "Hey, they got the shot so no need to worry about STD's!" :
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#246 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Rather than give a vaccine that does not help, why not advocate for ending child sexual abuse?
Basically, with the vaccine, you are saying that child sexual abuse is okay, because "Hey, they got the shot so no need to worry about STD's!" :
I'm sorry but between you saying we need to advocate for safe sex and advocate for ending CSC...I wish it were that simple. Poof begone. Yeah, unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

When 75-80% of women have HPV at some point in their life, it doesn't mean they got it from unsafe sex. It's a virus like mono that can lay dormant for years and not be detected, worse-most strains don't have any symptoms. I seriously take offense to the fact that you seem to believe that everyone that has HPV DOESN'T practice safe sex.

And I don't think that anyone here would advocate for CSC or that by getting a vaccine you are advocating it. That's just an unrealistic stretch. Kind of like teaching teenagers about safe sex will make them promiscuous.
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#247 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 02:49 PM
 
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Nobody vaguely suggested sexual abuse was OK. No one here wants to see children sexually abused and to suggest that is way off base. But people who are sexually abused and get an STD as a result would probably have preferred not to have the STD as it is an additional thing to deal with on top of the abuse.
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#248 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Danelle78
I seriously take offense to the fact that you seem to believe that everyone that has HPV DOESN'T practice safe sex.
You have no proof of what I believe in regards to HPV. I take offense at your assumptions.
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#249 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizD On the subject of vaccinations-as-related-to-HPV, if this vaccine works, and I could have been treated with it before beginning sexual activity, and I wouldn't have to fear the infections I now have with high-risk strains of HPV, I would have wanted it for sure!
But why not advocate for safe sex? If you can get HPV, then you can get Herpes, HIV, Syphilis, Chlamydia, etc.

vaccines have been proven to cause injury and death, and been proven that they do NOT work.
How did I make an assumption?
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#250 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Basically, with the vaccine, you are saying that child sexual abuse is okay, because "Hey, they got the shot so no need to worry about STD's!"
Oh. Yeah. That must be what I meant, that sexual abuse is all right.
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#251 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 10:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Rather than give a vaccine that does not help, why not advocate for ending child sexual abuse?
Basically, with the vaccine, you are saying that child sexual abuse is okay, because "Hey, they got the shot so no need to worry about STD's!" :
You have no idea how offensive what you wrote is, do you? No clue at all.
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#252 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 10:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PajamaMama
You have no idea how offensive what you wrote is, do you? No clue at all.
Evidence of severe naivete has been coming fast and furious from some quarters.

But BACK to Pap smears.....

I have been concerned that certain providers have been *too* gentle; a more vigorous brushing can gather cells from below the initial layer, which can give a more accurate reading. Again, the "injury" premise is clearly ridiculous. You get cells off the inside of your cheek when you swab it with a q-tip, or your fingernail. Cells come off everywhere, all the time. And while various contaminants can make a sample difficult to interpret, sperm cells are not mistaken for squamous intraepithelial lesions!

I am more concerned with the wide range of treatments and advice now offered in the event of an abnormal Pap. Some say wait and test again; some say go straight to LEEP, some say have a colposcopy; some say that doesn't hurt; women say it hurts worse than anything; cryotherapy or carbon dioxide laser or LEEP or cone biopsy? Does anyone who's BTDT have any advice? One site I like, the beta-mannan supplement people, recommends carbon dioxide laser, but says this can be hard to find (and therefore, I assume, expensive). A cone biopsy sounds so severe. Any thoughts on what one would choose, if necessary, god forbid?
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#253 of 265 Old 06-23-2006, 11:07 PM
 
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Bleeding a bit after a pap smear is not evidence of damage being caused. It depends on what time during your cycle the test is done and what condition the cervix is in, oftentimes I can see some blood present at the opening before I even do the test.

I may have missed this, this thread is getting pretty long, but did MITB ever respond to what kind of cancers she had and how she treated them? How they were diagnosed? I am genuinely interested, I am teaching nursing students on a cancer floor right now and always interested in alternative therapies.
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#254 of 265 Old 06-24-2006, 12:18 AM
 
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As far as experience with HPV, I tested + 6 months after giving birth to my first ds. Dh and I are and have been monogamous, so I was suprised to have just tested + 4 years into our marriage. I found it's a retrovirus and that you can test + years after initial exposure.

Anyway, I had a colpo and the diagnosis confirmed. My dr recommended the cryosurgery. I actually made and showed up for the appt, but when it came right down to the minute, I refused. I know one of the 'side effects' of cryosurgery is scarring of the cervix. I was afraid this scarring wouldn't allow my cervix to dilate then next time I was in labor, so my doc and I decided we'd watch it with PAP's every 6 months. 2 PAP's later and the HPV was gone, spontaneously, and I've had normal PAP's for 3 years now. So, that's my story and I'm glad I made the decision I did and I'm glad I get PAP smears!

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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#255 of 265 Old 06-24-2006, 12:30 AM
 
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Gary Null says, though I don't know what he bases it on, that women who have had abnormal Paps before a vaginal delivery go on to have normal Paps after the birth. He hypothesizes that there is something healing about a vaginal delivery; perhaps the expansion and contraction of the cervix? The fast regeneration of cells during pregnancy?

Thanks, TheLuckyOne, for posting your experience!
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#256 of 265 Old 06-25-2006, 01:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maxmama
Some women (including me) miscarry. It happens. The bleeding from a pap is from the surface capillaries, not from the uterus. Having seen how difficult it is to dilate the early-pregnancy cervix (I worked in an abortion clinic for eight years), I can promise you it ain't like a pap smear, and takes a little more than a cytobrush. One-third of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Yes, the chances are good that some of those women will have had a Pap recently. Know what? They probably also drove in a car, were exposed to sunlight, had sex and ate cheese. None of these things cause a miscarriage.

Temporal associations are not causal.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm too exhausted on this to have pointed this out as well as you did.
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#257 of 265 Old 06-26-2006, 02:41 AM
 
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I used to, until I read the reccomendation of one every three years under a certain age (forgot what it was, but know at 31 I still qualify).
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#258 of 265 Old 06-26-2006, 04:49 AM
 
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Hi Liz D,

Thanks for point that out - with regard to CSC. I hadn't looked at it from the point of veiw of that sad and unfortunate reality for some children. :
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#259 of 265 Old 07-13-2006, 07:05 PM
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just got dgx w/ dysplasia. :
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#260 of 265 Old 07-13-2006, 07:06 PM
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double post
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#261 of 265 Old 07-13-2006, 07:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by boodafli
just got dgx w/ dysplasia. :
Don't be too upset, diagnoses like that happen all the time and sometimes resolve themselves. Check out alotek.org; their stuff really helped me. Even if it is pre-cancerous with high-risk HPV, it is usually a very slow-growing cancer and treatment, when done early, is quite effective. You'll be fine!
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#262 of 265 Old 07-14-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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yes, this is a VERY treatable thing when you deal with it early and that is why paps are so important. carrot juice is the very best thing to deal with the hpv virus. when i had this i did a natural herbal treatment from Tori Hudson at the Naturopathic clinic in oregon (she has a book out - i have it but not with me and forget the name) and my midwife did the treatment. it was 5 weeks long and involved dietary changes as well as herbal applications. a great commitment of time and energy but it allowed me to process the emotional reasons behind why i had issues happening in that area of my body. which i think is important. i have had no recurrence in 12 years.....

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#263 of 265 Old 07-14-2006, 02:33 PM
 
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Yes, I do have an annual pap smear. I've read most of the posts in here and while you're more than free to take or not take this test I intend to keep having it each year at my annual checkup. To each her own...

Normal is just a setting on your dryer.
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#264 of 265 Old 07-14-2006, 02:40 PM
 
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This vaccine is 98% effective for the four main strains of HPV which cause almost 100% of cervical cancers.
I was listening to NPR this week and according to what one doctor said this is not true. The doctor quoted was one who worked on the CDC committee to get the vaccine approved so obviously she is not an "anti vax" kind of person.

Apparently, the vaccine works on the strains that are responsible for 70% of cervical cancers. And once you apply whatever formula they applied, the doctor said that the vaccine is from 20-66% effective. Further, they really don't know how long the vaccine stays effective. The reason for the lack of definitive information is that it has only been studied for 4 years so far. And during that time, for those that it worked for it remained effective. However, it will need to be studied longer to determine the duration.

I'm not saying this vaccine is good or bad I'm just reporting what I heard a doctor say on NPR.

One thing I do worry about with the vaccine is that people will believe the original statistic quoted and think that once they have the vaccine they are in the clear (having "unsafe" sex). I think if they are going to give the vaccine they should use the opportunity to educate the vaccinee on how to have "safe" sex (ie condoms or whatever) to minimize the risk further.

ooops. Stepping off my soapbox.

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#265 of 265 Old 07-20-2006, 02:50 PM
 
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Found this, for those opposed to routine paps; it's a blood test:
http://www.onconix.com/CSA_Test.htm

Here is a link I found several years ago (Read this link if none of the others):
http://www.larsoncenturyranch.com/li...ncer-test.html

<snip from above site>

It is called an AMAS test. Amazingly, it's an easy one to take. Your doctor takes a sample of your blood, and then screens it for a substance called Anti-Malignan Antibody. It is so accurate that if you have it done twice, the rate of false positives and false negatives is below one percent!

It's FDA approved as well, just not heard of too much!

Follow up links regarding the AMAS and how to get one done on you:

http://www.drrons.com/AMAS-test.htm
http://www.geocities.com/howetree/judy/amas.html

Regarding 'simple' urine tests:

There is a female doctor that has developed a proceedure to find 'Adam 12' markers in urine that show up in breast cancer patients. She's working on a patent and development for commercially available tests, so it's in the development stage atm:
http://www.childrenshospital.org/chn...-04/urine.html

Other than that, the only other currently 'FDA' approved urine test, is for the HPV virus, and not the actual cancer itself. It's suggested to be used in 'conjunction' with Paps:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/news/c...een030421.html

The following link is about a study in Africa that might be promising, if technology improves it's 'accuracy' rate:
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/200...r/cervical.htm

Personally, no I don't do yearly tests.

For one reason, I had a BAD experience for my first one, done at a hospital...let's just say I left the exam room (was 17 years old) and saw my male doctor joking around with a few fellow male docs about the size and shape of my perky, young 'c cup' breasts and my other bits that he'd just examened....(he did a breast exam, just to be sure they were 'ok' and to show me how to do one, though the reason I'd originally gone in for a 'check up' was due to some unusual cramping and itching; it turned out I had gotten my first (and only) yeast infection from sitting in hot tubs!)

He had the grace to turn beet red when he realized I was standing right behind him while he was saying all that stuff, and the other docs walked away, looking really sheepish! Then he acted all mad at me, like I shouldn't have left the room (err, and caught him saying stuff like that) since I'd not been 'dismissed'...but the nurse had already told me to dress and that I could go after he'd left the room.... Needless to say, on top of teenage mortification of having had a man looking, poking and prodding 'down there', I was horrified!

Then for my second one, YEARS later, another male doctor made me bleed and have severe cramps after his pap and 'routine' exam that was mandantory for BC pills....

So, YEARS and YEARS later, once I'd had my first son, I had one with my midwife, and no problems....Had one more before second son (never during pregnancy). So a sum total of 4 exams in almost 20 years.

After having helped my dad and two women I know with breast cancer totally recover from cancer by simply using the 'Budwig Diet', I think I'd use that on myself if it came down to it. But I do alot of preventative care on myself and my family in hopes of not getting it in the first place. /shrug

Just what works for me and my plan of action. (Cleanses, fasts, anti viral/bacterial herbals, no hydrogenated products, more alkaline foods/eating...etc)

I would love a simple urine test or blood test (along with the others they do) to be offered at well woman visits, for those of us that really detest having them done for whatever personal reasons!

/hugs to everyone, regardless of your 'stance' on this.

That AMAS test sounds promising, I think I'll see if my midwife can do a 'draw' and submit it for me.

Also remember, if you'd have suggested that cancer might be caused or exacerbated by a 'virus' a few years ago, you'd have been laughed at by most people, especially those in the 'medical' community. Now they are going to start 'pushing' a vaccine specifically to 'remedy' one very nasty type of cancer, supposedly caused by the HPV....mmmmm....

I think I'll get my Hulda Clark Zapper out and do a standard 'series' of zaps to kill off those 'harmless' virus's and bacterias that have nothing to do with all the other forms of cancer...food for thought, for those looking for some alternative ideas on cancer/disease management!

Heather
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