Healing the Gut Tribe ~~ July! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo
So my DDs pooping has become very prolific and still loose in the last few days. Not sure if its because she's eating different foods than normal or what.

At this point I'm thinking of just trying the broad spectrum enzyme and see what happens. What do folks think?

Also, if I take enzymes & she's still bfing (she's 2.5 yrs old) will she be affected by what I'm taking?
Yes she will be getting enzymes from you. Start yours first and wait until you are sure she is tolerating them well at the level you want to be taking them.
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#62 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 05:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EBG
... so how come apples are constipating and pears are not? I don't understand which frruits are OK and which ones are not :
I think this is very individual. Apples have a hard to digest sugar (sorbiol) both DS and several IRL kids I know get diarrhea from apples.
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#63 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 05:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Also I think one major factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... nutritional deficiencies. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.
I meant to add that to the discussion...just never got around to it. Since the child inherits the mother's nutritional problems, it makes sense that problems with the baby at birth would be caused by the mother's diet. But for those babies who appear fine at birth, then the whole gut flora thing kicks in and can cause problems (and of course for those who didn't appear fine at birth, too).
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#64 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 06:00 PM
 
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Anyone have suggestions on fairly non-gut damaging things I can eat with the stomach flu? I had a nasty case of stomach flu on Sunday and am still having trouble with eating--I'm hungry and really need to eat but nothing sounds good except pretzels and junk food. Absolutely everything I can eat on this anti-candida diet sounds terrible to me right now.
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#65 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
Also I think one major factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... nutritional deficiencies. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.

I hope MT will jump in with her link to Probiotics 101 post with studies on gut flora that she put up a couple weeks ago. I meant to link it to the Cheat Sheet but forgot. (Curse lack of Seach function for 800th time! )

Also nutrition is a major factor in whether you excrete or hold onto toxins so I think that also influences whether your child reacts to the toxins as well. The vitamin C glutathione connection for example. The more I read, the more I think that it's not necessarily that our world is more toxic ... it's that our world is more toxic AND we are eating much less nutrients than the diets we are designed to eat.
nak
ITA and am just finding this out as it relates to dd. I am only beginning to understand how this all relates but the pieces are starting to come together for me & I feel like I've reached a whole new level of understanding yk?

btw, was the discussion re: vit c & glutathione on MT's 101 thread? I don't remember & need to read it again.

I've been experimenting w/ vit. c for dd & seeing amazing things. When I put it all together in my mind I'm going to post about it (somewhere).
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#66 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS

I'm strongly of the opinion that messed up gut flora causes food "allergies". Whether it's the food particles in the mama's bloodstream that is leaked thru her gut, or the wrong gut flora, or both.
So can I conversely assume that since both my kids are fine in this regard, that I had, at least at the time, healthy gut flora? Both have perfect teeth, healthy immune sysmtems, no known allergies. I was close to vegan for about 2 years before concieving DD1. She was bf for 17 months, at which point I was pregnant with DD2. I did feel that my reserves were lower with DD2, but figured it was for practical reasons (older, had a child already, going to school, etc). DD2's first year was AWFUL for me. I finally feel that I have recovered from that.

I am now wondering if the health of my teeth took a hit from the 2 pregnancies, and whatever nutritional deficiencies I might have. Not in caveties, but in gum health. I really need to get back to the dentist.
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#67 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by scubamama
Perhaps, ds's "improvement" is a developmental progression, rather than a "healing". As now (and for about 2 years) he eats many of the things that he couldn't previously. I guess it depends on the definition of "healed". If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?

I appreciate the discussion of the theory behind the "treatment" of healing the gut.

Oh, but we have utilized the classical homeopathy variable though. Hmmmm....so many variables to untangle.

Pat
My previous message got eaten up by server...

I don't think BM is the only cause but it's a variable. The gut flora the child has is by far the chief factor. And the nutritional issue.

Which also... your gut flora can be the cause or an effect, see this study:

Abnormal Gut Fermentation: Laboratory Studies reveal Deficiency of B vitamins, Zinc, and Magnesium
Keith K. Eaton A1, John McLaren Howard A2, Adrian Hunnisett A2, Malcolm Harris
Journal of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine
Issue: Volume 14, Number 2 / June 2004
Pages: 115 - 120

Quote:
Abstract:
Gut fermentation in the colon is a normal phenomenon whereby soluble non-starch polysaccharides are metabolized to short-chain fatty acids. Abnormal fermentation may be associated with clinical symptoms and is generally assumed to take place in the small bowel. It may be established by ethanol production after a sugar challenge in the fasting subject, which produces maximum production of ethanol 1 hour after sugar challenge. This timing is compatible with the dose acting in the small bowel, but not the large. It was noted that patients with abnormal gut fermentation established by gut fermentation ethanol production tests tended to have low levels of vitamins and minerals, and it was therefore decided to make a prospective study of patients with the condition to determine if this was so.

Patients were tested for ethanol production together with standard functional analysis techniques for vitamins B1, B2, and B6 and zinc and magnesium concentrations by sweat analysis using air/acetylene flame atomic absorption. Fifty normal subjects (group A) were analyzed against 30 positive patients by alcohol testing (group B). Statistical analysis, using the Wilcoxon Sum of Ranks test, revealed a remarkable and consistently high difference for vitamins and minerals between the two groups. In group B, 19 of 30 patients had four of five or five of five nutrients abnormal, and no subject with a positive alcohol test had less than two abnormal nutrients.

It is concluded that the syndrome that causes abnormal gut fermentation appears to have adverse effects on levels of B vitamins, zinc, and magnesium. As yet it is not clear whether this is a result of malabsorption, over-utilization, or excessive excretion. The level of ethanol production in this condition is low, but the presence of the nutritional deficits implies that the syndrome may cause quite significant adverse effects on health. More research in this area is required to replicate and extend these studies.
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.co...wynm7djqe935rq
The idea of "healing" leaky gut is simple: get the gut flora back into balance of approx. 85% good bacteria holding the 15% bad in check. Whether, when and how it can go bad again I guess depends on certain circumstances.

Tell me more about the classical homeopathy. I think our practioner is a dud. (have 3rd remedy to give DS, haven't done so yet).
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#68 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 09:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Anyone have suggestions on fairly non-gut damaging things I can eat with the stomach flu? I had a nasty case of stomach flu on Sunday and am still having trouble with eating--I'm hungry and really need to eat but nothing sounds good except pretzels and junk food. Absolutely everything I can eat on this anti-candida diet sounds terrible to me right now.
I just had stomach flu myself .... bananas and chicken broth helped get me back on track.
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#69 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 09:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
nak
ITA and am just finding this out as it relates to dd. I am only beginning to understand how this all relates but the pieces are starting to come together for me & I feel like I've reached a whole new level of understanding yk?

btw, was the discussion re: vit c & glutathione on MT's 101 thread? I don't remember & need to read it again.

I've been experimenting w/ vit. c for dd & seeing amazing things. When I put it all together in my mind I'm going to post about it (somewhere).
Yes, I still feel that way, the subject area is so vast!

I don't know about the N/I 101 thread but here is info on Vit. C and glutathione. We might have been talking about it in the "What Causes Autism" thread.

Quote:
How to Boost Glutathione Levels

Glutathione is a small protein composed of three amino acids - cysteine, glutamic acid, and glycine - that is involved in detoxification and antioxidant mechanisms. Many toxins are dealt with by "handcuffing" the toxin to another molecule so it can be escorted out of the body. The process of adding one molecule to another is called conjugation. Glutathione is one of the most important conjugating compounds in helping the body eliminate fat-soluble toxins such as heavy metals, solvents, and pesticides to transform them into a water-soluble form allowing more efficient excretion via the kidneys...

Dietary Glutathione is Better than Supplements

Don't look to expensive supplements containing glutathione to boost levels of glutathione in the body. While dietary forms of glutathione appear to be efficiently absorbed into the blood, the same does not appear to be true for glutathione supplements in humans. When healthy subjects were given a single dose of up to 3,000 mg of glutathione researchers found there was no increase in blood glutathione levels.11 The authors of the study concluded "it is not feasible to increase circulating glutathione to a clinically beneficial extent by the oral administrating of a single dose of 3 g of glutathione." In contrast, blood glutathione levels rose nearly 50% in healthy individuals taking 500 mg of vitamin C.12 Vitamin C raises glutathione by helping the body manufacture it. In addition, to vitamin C, dietary sources of glutathione and several other nutritional compounds can help increase glutathione levels including N-acetylcysteine (NAC), alpha-lipoic acid (Jane note: don't take ALA if Hg toxic), glutamine, methionine, and whey protein. Also, vitamin B6, riboflavin, and selenium are required in the manufacture of glutathione.

As far as foods go, fresh fruits and vegetables provide excellent levels of glutathione, but cooked foods contained far less.10 Asparagus, avocado, and walnuts are particularly rich dietary sources of glutathione.
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/drmurr...ionelevels.htm
Vitamin C is best taken several times a day b/c it washes out of the body fairly quickly, like an hour. DS and myself take it at every meal and snack.

I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

The other one by Steve Hickey is available by download:
http://www.lulu.com/content/55277

Also just got "Children with Starving Brains" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.
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#70 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 09:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by moonshine
So can I conversely assume that since both my kids are fine in this regard, that I had, at least at the time, healthy gut flora? Both have perfect teeth, healthy immune sysmtems, no known allergies. I was close to vegan for about 2 years before concieving DD1. She was bf for 17 months, at which point I was pregnant with DD2. I did feel that my reserves were lower with DD2, but figured it was for practical reasons (older, had a child already, going to school, etc). DD2's first year was AWFUL for me. I finally feel that I have recovered from that.

I am now wondering if the health of my teeth took a hit from the 2 pregnancies, and whatever nutritional deficiencies I might have. Not in caveties, but in gum health. I really need to get back to the dentist.
Yes, probably nutritional in your case. You know how I feel about a vegan diet

Gum health is absolutely effected by vitamin C. You might want to start taking at least several grams/day of sodium ascorbate, with bioflavoniods. See thread of that title for more info. In case of infection, the recommended amount can be 10 grams or more. Divided into several doses. I found swishing the solution around the mouth and then swallowing is great for the gums.

Also this article is interesting:
Vitamin C: The Invisible Toothbrush
http://www.westonaprice.org/healthis...oothbrush.html
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#71 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 10:27 PM
 
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New research on enzyme for celiac disease:

http://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1341
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#72 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

Also just got "Children with Starving Brains" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.
Been wanting to find time to read both of those. Have the second one in my amazon cart right now but haven't ordered it. I find myself buying books and there they sit . . . unread and then I'll resell them and buy something else.

Right now I promised myself I would FINISH MT's book before taking up ANYTHING else!

Then again, when I DO have time to read here I sit on MDC . . .
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#73 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 11:56 PM
 
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yeah well with the server crashing every 5 minutes I'm getting TONS of reading done!
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#74 of 554 Old 07-05-2006, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You mean I could've been reading instead of window shopping on the hanna site?
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#75 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 12:20 AM
 
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I'm new to this and I'm interested in how to heal mine & dd's gut. (We have yeast and she has allergies).

TIA

Tina - mama to DD1 10.75yrs, DD2 6yrs, DD3 2.5 yrs & baby due in June 2015 and wifey to DH.
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#76 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 12:09 PM
 
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Caedmyn, since you want to eat stuff that's not on the diet anyway, why not eat SCD legal stuff, like gelatin made with juice?

Jen 47 DS C 2/03  angel.gif04/29/08/ DD S 10/28/09 DH Bill '97.

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#77 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 12:20 PM
 
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Caedmyn, since you want to eat stuff that's not on the diet anyway, why not eat SCD legal stuff, like gelatin made with juice?
I thought about eating SCD legal stuff but didn't really have any in the house...so I ended up eating Chipotle I was really hungry. Oh well, I think I'm finally over the stomach bug and can go back to my anti-candida diet. I have to say, the food on the SCD was a lot more interesting than on this diet.
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#78 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 12:21 PM
 
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Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?
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#79 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by treehugginhippie
I'm new to this and I'm interested in how to heal mine & dd's gut. (We have yeast and she has allergies).

TIA
First, I suggest reading the 'Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet' sticky at the top of this forum. It will give you some idea of where to go from there.
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#80 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 01:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?
I believe it's not constipation until she isn't going. If she is still pooping, I think you're good.
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#81 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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[Vitamin C is best taken several times a day b/c it washes out of the body fairly quickly, like an hour. DS and myself take it at every meal and snack.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that someone can help me with supplements. We are doing SCD (3 weeks now). I can find legal supplements for myself no problem but ds is only 2. He cannot take a capsule. I have legal vit C powder but I put it in his juice and then he won't drink his juice. He also needs a B-Complex. We take CLO for A and D and use Natural Calm for magnesium. We eat yogurt and cheese every day so I assume we are fine with calcium. Any recommendations for C and B-complex? TIA.
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#82 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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And, one more question. I ordered Peptizyde and No Phenol from Houston. I ordered the capsules figuring I could break them apart and sprinkle a little bit on ds' food. Is this what other people are doing or should I have bought the bulk powder to use for ds? I am having a hard time believing that he will get enzymes that I am taking from my breastmilk. Is this really true? If so, then is there a need to give them to him directly? TIA.
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#83 of 554 Old 07-06-2006, 08:09 PM
 
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I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it....

For lactose intolerant people, is the whey made from SCD yogurt (ie the liquid stuff leftover after dripping the yogurt) considered safe? I'm assuming this would still contain much less lactose than traditional whey (made from non-SCD yogurt etc). I use whey in my NT recipes and I'm just curious. Is the stuff leftover from SCD yogurt even still considered whey? Will it work for NT recipes?

Also, what is the reason for only using the dripped yogurt in the early stages of SCD?


And finally, anyone else on here using SCD or grain free/lactose free diets to "cure" autoimmunity? Just curious. I have autoimmune thyroid disease/Hashimoto's.



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#84 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 12:57 AM
 
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I've been reading the Power of Probiotics thread, and now I'm wondering if I should give DD some probiotic powder directly. I'm not taking any probiotics right now--I'll probably start some again in 2-3 weeks. She is still EBF, and I probably won't start her on solids until around Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months.
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#85 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 01:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS
I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.
The propensity to be sensitive to a substance ("be allergic") IS genetic and ruled by one's DNA. The biochemical pathways can be affected be nutrition. So, in genetic geekspeak, allergies are actually a manifestation of the genotype by environment interaction.

[dh interrupted my train of thought for a moment for some silly thing about nothing... gah...and i've got a cat traipsing across my keyboard]

while there might not be a genetic epidemic, I do think that "modern medicine" is messing with the natural evolutionary trajectory of our species.
let's use anaphylactic reactions as an example: a gene conferring an anaphylactic reaction would not have become fixed in a population because people who carried that gene would have died (e.g., if they were stung by a bee and had an anaphylactic reaction prior to the development of the epi-pen). today, however, such genes are floating around in the population (i.e., "fixed") precisely because we have circumvented natural selection in some regards.

[where was i going with this?...] because modern medicine has made it possible for many more people to make it to reproductive age (and in some cases to actually reproduce), we now have a lot of deleterious genes floating around in the gene pool that would have been purged in the past - probably the propensity to be allergic is one of those states...

in another thread, MT mentioned the pill. some past population genetic studies in mice show that mates are attracted to opposite MHC types (for optimal recombination of genetic material). a neat study using some college students (women on the pill and women not on the pill, some men, and some stinky t-shirts - can't remember the reference at all) showed that women on the pill were attracted to men of the same MHC type while women not on the pill were attracted to men of the opposite MHC type. so perhaps the pill is also screwing up our mate choice in addition to the plethora of issues that Ellen Grant wrote about.

and perhaps because we have so many people mating with the "wrong" MHC type, we have DNA not being recombined as it should, thereby exposing more of these genes for allergic propensity.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#86 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 01:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

The other one by Steve Hickey is available by download:
http://www.lulu.com/content/55277

Also just got "Children with Starving Brains" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.
Of the 2 vitamin C books, I've read the Hickey one and wasn't so impressed (it struck me as being very repetitive). But then I got overwhelmed with vit. C reading, so the other one is collecting dust.

My mom saw a clip on TV with Michael Lyon, promoting his book "Is Your Child's Brain Starving? Food Not Drugs for Life and Learning" (ISBN 0968516858) so that's on my list.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#87 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 02:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?
probably TMI but since you asked... once he hit about 5 months, ds would only have a bowle mvmt every 3-4 days (while he was EBF)... and then it usually was a huge explosion of a peanut butter-y mess. it gradually became thicker as he presumably became more efficient at digesting milk. when he started solids, it gradually became more solid and better formed (as well-formed as it can be when it is stuck in a diaper). now he is pretty regular - he has a bowel mvmt when it is least convenient for us to change him.

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#88 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 02:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
I've been reading the Power of Probiotics thread, and now I'm wondering if I should give DD some probiotic powder directly. I'm not taking any probiotics right now--I'll probably start some again in 2-3 weeks. She is still EBF, and I probably won't start her on solids until around Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months.
my ND recommends probiotics as the only supplement for breastfed babies... he recommends (Country Life?) Maxi Babydophilus ( because HFS carries that brand and he's used to dealing with his Amish patients who aren't on the grid but who shop at that store from time to time).

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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#89 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 04:30 AM
 
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Tammy, Pecanbread.com has a list of SCD legal supplements, many aimed at kids. Be forewarned, though, they aren't cheap!

Oh, and yeah, I'm doing SCD in part for my PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), which isn't officially an autoimmune disease, but it sure acts like one.

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#90 of 554 Old 07-07-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisdomkeeper
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it....

For lactose intolerant people, is the whey made from SCD yogurt (ie the liquid stuff leftover after dripping the yogurt) considered safe? I'm assuming this would still contain much less lactose than traditional whey (made from non-SCD yogurt etc). I use whey in my NT recipes and I'm just curious. Is the stuff leftover from SCD yogurt even still considered whey? Will it work for NT recipes?

Also, what is the reason for only using the dripped yogurt in the early stages of SCD?


And finally, anyone else on here using SCD or grain free/lactose free diets to "cure" autoimmunity? Just curious. I have autoimmune thyroid disease/Hashimoto's.




SCD whey is lactose-free (supposed to be).The sugars should be broken down to glucose and galactose. It works in NT recipes because it's not the lactose that works but the lactic acid producing bacteria.

I think most of us have autoimmune issues. For example eczema is an auto-immune disease... that's my DD's & my problem. So is asthma, allergies, fybromyalgia, arthiritis etc, etc, etc...)
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