Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 169 Old 08-23-2006, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This book is an absolute revelation to me. A must for the non vaxer or anyone who is considering not vaxing. (Thank you MT for suggesting it! )

It talks about the HUGE amount of research that support using vit. C megadoses, especially via IV or intramuscular injections for knocking out viruses and neutralizing toxins. He gives much regard to Frederick Klenner for his pioneering research and practical application.

The main problem according to Levy, and the way C is regarded by most clinicians today, is that not enough C is assimilated by the body to show any effect. IV and injection, along with oral supplementation as well, is a much better route if facing a serious crisis. (See below). One example in his book is Klenner's own daughter facing chicken pox (I think). She was taking 24 grams a day. Not enough. Just a gram or two by IV and she improved dramatically. So basically if you see no result, you just need more.

Also everyday vit. C dosage to your personal optidose is crucial for the prevention of countless diseases and building the support structure for your immune system to deal with the many environmental toxins we face in the modern world. Vitamin C is rapidly depleted in the body's tissues by any virus and toxic assault on the body. And it's often the clinical appearance of scurvy that clearly shows this.

The fact that many animals synthesize their own vitamin C, increasing it in times of illness or toxic stress, is one of the main reasons that they are not susceptible to degenerative disease as we humans are. Levy hypothesizes that some humans could possibly do this now, or at some point ... as the genome exists in our DNA to produce the specific liver enzyme but seems to remain "untranslated".

The following viral diseases are CURABLE and PREVENTABLE with vitamin C IV and megadosing:

Hepatitis
Measles
Mumps
Viral Encephalitis
Chickenpox
Herpes
Pneumonia
Influenza
Rabies (preventable has been proven only)
AIDS and The Common Cold (preventable and reversible has been proven only)

The following infectious diseases are CURABLE and PREVENTABLE with vitamin C IV and megadosing:

Diptheria
Pertussis (reversible and preventable has been proven only)
Tetanus
Streptoccal and Staphylococcal Infections
Bacillary Dysentary
Pseudomonas Infections
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Typhoid Fever, Malaria, Amebic Dysentary (reversible and preventable has been proven only, curable is hypothesized with right doses)

The following toxins can be neutralized:

Alcohol,
Barbituates
Carbon Monoxide
Endotoxin (ie. die off from yeast infections or the Herxheimer reaction)
Exotoxins (ie. metabolites from yeast/bad bacteria intestinal flora imbalance)
Pesticides
Herbicides
PCBs
Radiation
Tetanus toxin
Mercury
Lead
Arsenic
Aluminum
Fluoride, etc.

: Quite an amazing list, huh? Like I said, he has extensive research in this book and clearly states the studies that were constructed to debunk vit. C use pathetically small doses, not "Klenner sized" ones and not via IV or injection.

How to Determine Your Personal Optidose:

Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness. If facing any of the challenges listed above, consider IVs.


Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable

by Tom Levy MD
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...662096-9754430

You can read the Intro and some excerpts at his website. Click on books and then find the Vit. C book and links at bottom of that page: www.tomlevymd.com
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#2 of 169 Old 08-23-2006, 11:27 PM
 
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Wow Jane! Thanks for the info. I have known that dd does much better at night when she gets enough vit c throughout the day. (Sodium ascorbate.)

I am going to try this every hour to see what my dosage level is.

Do they say sodium ascorbate is best?
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#3 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 12:00 AM
 
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Wow that is fantastic! Thank you!

Can you find many practictioners who would do a Vit. C. IV?
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#4 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annikate
Do they say sodium ascorbate is best?
Yes as it is buffered, the body absorbs more. However you still need bioflavonoids, at 20% of that dosage (book doesn't go into this).

I'm also going to test my optidose both with SA and with natural vitamin C, I use acerola and amla powder for everyday supplementation b/c it already has biofl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyC
Can you find many practictioners who would do a Vit. C. IV?
Good question, DS's new dr. does and he is a fellow of Amer Academy of Environmental Medicine:
http://www.aaem.com/
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#5 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 05:43 PM
 
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Ok, so I remember reading somewhere around here that if vit C makes you tired or get sick (which it seems to so to me everytime I happen to get a bunch of it), then something else is wrong or you're missing another nutrient or something? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Also, they are looking at the possibility that I might have lymphoma and I seem to remember someone saying that vit C makes cancer cells increase. Do I have that wrong? Is vit C with cancer ok?

And if so, I'm having a little trouble with all the stuff surrounding the vit C. I think that the fact that I want sodium ascorbate has stuck finally . But bioflavaniods??

JaneS, is there any way you could just tell me exactly what to go to the store and buy, brand names and everything? :
Puh-leeeze? :
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#6 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 08:56 PM
 
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Well I'm not Jane. I know my father uses vitamin C for his cancer patients so I don't think that it causes problems. A brand of Vitamin C I like it by Natural Factors, Its and Abscorbate and Ascorbic mix, but its 100% organic and its in a nice flaored chewable.
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#7 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 09:10 PM
 
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Does that cover the bioflaviniods too? Or do you do those?

I'm glad to hear about the cancer thing, I just wouldn't want to risk it if it has some odd growing effect on cancer. Maybe I'll see about the injections from my doc. Then again, I probably need to see about a new doc anyways.

I could have sworn I read something in one of these many threads around here about C making certain people sick and tired. *sigh* I wish the search feature was better.
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#8 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 09:46 PM
 
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I would also like to know a good brand of *powdered* bioflavanoids that I can mix in w/dds' drinks. :
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#9 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Treereach,

Interesting you should ask that as my mom has a form of lymphoma and I've been starting to compile info to convince her.

Check into Linus Pauling's studies with cancer patients and IVA (IV Sodium Ascorbate).

There has been some recent study as well:
Orthomolecular oncology review: ascorbic acid and cancer 25 years later.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum (see link for full text and other related research)

Quote:
Conclusion
There are a wide variety of mechanisms by which
ascorbate prevents and inhibits malignant growth.We
have described the ones we believe are most important,
most scientifically logical, and for which there is
the most evidence. It is very likely that many of these
mechanisms interplay in ascorbate’s anticancer action.
The collective evidence supports the notion of
increasing ascorbate intake in patients suffering malignancies,
especially provided by intravenous route.
Ascorbate may produce benefits in both prevention
and treatment of cancer, by inhibiting malignant cell
proliferation, and inducing differentiation113 and
redifferentiation.114 In addition, ascorbate has been of
value in the palliation of pain170,171 and as an ergogenic
agent,8,172 which has substantially improved the quality
of life of terminal cancer patients.
The ideal anticancer agent is obviously one that
specifically interferes with tumor growth, prolongs
survival time, and improves quality of life. There is evidence
that ascorbate might fit this description. A protocol
for the proper administration of intravenous AA
has been published recently.173 Based on the evidence
reviewed herein, we suggest the use of intravenous AA
as adjuvant therapy in cancer treatment and the exploration
of new cancer therapies based on modulation
of the cellular redox state.
Sodium ascorbate is not in stores...have to order online. I get from Iherb
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=NOW-00762

I'm not a good person to ask re: mixed bioflavonoids right now. DS gets Amla, a natural whole foods vit. C and quercitin and I take either Amla or Acerola right now. That may change depending on what our optidoses are coming in at.

Chewable vitamin C that contains ascorbic acid is absolutely murder on your tooth enamel, not a good idea!
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#10 of 169 Old 08-24-2006, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddess3_2005
Vaccination is NOT natural!!!


This thought just crystallized in me while reading this book: I'm now utterly comfortable with not vaxing.

I mean, I know soooo much thanks to the amazing mamas here that I would never ever vax DS. But there was still a tiny bit of fear, ykwim? That's totally gone.
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#11 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 02:25 AM
 
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I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?

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#12 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, it is in a 24 hr period. But did you take more the second day or same amount?
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#13 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 04:13 PM
 
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Cool beans. Thanks so much for that info, it definitely relieves my concerns about taking it.
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#14 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 04:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?
I tried to reach my optidose yesterday by taking two AMLA (paradise) caps per hour. I had stomach rumblings when I went to bed at 30 capsules, but never any results. This morning I started again (as I didn't want to wake every hour through the night to take the capsules) with SA. I'm currently at 21 grams with significant rumblings. Hoping to get there soon. I have been chelating and mobilizing mercury for 6 months and am hopefully half way through the course. I believe this explains my very increased optidose since I don't have any other disease process that I know of.
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#15 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 05:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneca
I tried to reach my optidose yesterday by taking two AMLA (paradise) caps per hour. I had stomach rumblings when I went to bed at 30 capsules, but never any results. This morning I started again (as I didn't want to wake every hour through the night to take the capsules) with SA. I'm currently at 21 grams with significant rumblings. Hoping to get there soon. I have been chelating and mobilizing mercury for 6 months and am hopefully half way through the course. I believe this explains my very increased optidose since I don't have any other disease process that I know of.
Do you mean that you think because you're chelating, you're needing more than you normally would? I know dd can handle 5+ grams w/no bowel movements but I've been slowly working up with her. She's chelating so I guess that would make sense huh?
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#16 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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Brands of sodium ascorbate: NOW brand, or Source Naturals. Usually you have to get it online as I've only found them in a very few HFS's.

Bioflavonoids--I bought NOW brand ones. They come in capsules...I suppose you could try opening them and mixing them with water
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Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#18 of 169 Old 08-25-2006, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annikate
Do you mean that you think because you're chelating, you're needing more than you normally would? I know dd can handle 5+ grams w/no bowel movements but I've been slowly working up with her. She's chelating so I guess that would make sense huh?
Chelating causes redistribution of mercury (and lead in my case). If you're doing the Cutler protocol then you're pulling mercury out of your organs and reintroducing it to your system as it exits your body. In a way you are repoisoning yourself during this process and that is why you get so many "symptoms" as your extracellular mercury levels go back up. Naturally this causes a lot of oxidative damage and stress on the system since mercury enters every cell. Thus the need for major repair.

Oh, it's 9pm and I'm getting ready to take another dose to put me up to 60 grams : and only wicked gas and rumblings thus far.
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#19 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 01:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
I am able to buy sodium ascorbate from my health food store, PCC Natural in the Seattle area. They used to require you to special order it, but now it's on the shelf.
When you reach bowel tolerance, is that in a 24 hour period or shorter? Like, if I took 2 grams every hour, and it took two days to get to bowel tolerance, would I then take double the amount that I took in a 24 hour period? Or if you don't reach bowel tolerance by bedtime, do you start over in the morning?
To reach bowel tolerance is very simple. As Jane said in the OP
Quote:
Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness. If facing any of the challenges listed above, consider IVs.
I do a loading bolus dose of five grams, and then 2.5 grams every couple of hours.

When I get to bowel tolerance depends on what sort of day its been. If I've been to a big city with lots of pollution, I won't get to bowel tolerance until i've had 40 grams, but if its a good day at home but with heaps of hard physical work, bowel tolerance might be 8 grams. A sedentary day, bowel tolerance might be as little as 5 grams.

You write down how much you take and how long it takes to get to bowel tolerance.

So if it only takes 10 hours to get to bowel tolerance, and you used a total of 10 grams to do that, then take that amount the next day in smaller doses over the waking period of that day, and see if you remain at bowel tolerance. If you don't, then up it a bit the next day.

Also, we are all different, and how fast you get there depends on the individual. It is error and trial, and that's how you will learn.

No-one can tell you how, or when it will be achieved. Just take comprehensive accurat notes, analyse it, and learn what your body requires.

Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#20 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 01:32 AM
 
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As time goes on, you will learn what your body needs under different circumstances, and will have a pretty good idea of how much to take, so getting to bowel tolerance will become more hit than miss.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#21 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Jane, Dr Levy is now very much into liposomal vitamin C, which he maintains is almost as effective as IV in emergency situation.

http://livonlabs.com/
Oooooo, thank you!
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#22 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
As time goes on, you will learn what your body needs under different circumstances, and will have a pretty good idea of how much to take, so getting to bowel tolerance will become more hit than miss.
If you experience *any* intestinal symptoms at all is that considered bowel tolerance? ie. gas, rumbling ... or do you have to go to full on diarrhea?
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#23 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 02:10 PM
 
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I love Levy's book. Have had it for 2+ years and refer to it often.
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#24 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 03:13 PM
 
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Well, Id like to try to get to bowel tolerance but:

Yesterday I was out and about so much I missed many doses. Ended up doing 5g in 1g doses over the day and never rumbled.

Today I got to 3g by 10:30am and now have the most AWFUL stomach ache, I can barely move around, which is a must for taking care of the kids. They want lunch, they want to wrestle - UGH, ouch


So, todays results make me fearful of attemting bowel tolerance in the future. Im inclined to stick with my 4g over the day. The last time something like this happened was the first day I took 4g. As per my tolerance, I am pretty active most days - today I walked and went for a bike ride, and then got the stomache ache.

Your thoughts/suggestions?

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#25 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 03:32 PM
 
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EEE, saskiasmom. That makes me nervous to try it.

So, would this be the thing to do for an infant that just got the usual round of 4 mo shots? I posted here near when this thread was started about my nephew and how the mom was trying to get with the no-vax thing. Well, she didn't make it. The doc ran all over her, saying there was no thimerosol in them anymore and all that crud.

So, last night, after they got home from the appt, he wouldn't even wake up (during typically awake hours- 4-9) and the couple minutes he did, he just screamed.

Should we try some C? I'm sure she would be nervous to do that unless we knew exactly what to get. But have you guys done that with someone as little as 4 mos and it was ok? Would it help the situation?
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#26 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS

How to Determine Your Personal Optidose:

Take every hour or every two hours until bowel tolerance is reached. Normally around 6 - 12 grams/day for a healthy adult. When you get watery diarrhea, this means that the body has absorbed all it can. So take just under that amount every single day, in divided doses 3-4x day. If you miss it, you will not be giving your body the dosage it needs to stay healthy and leave your immune system vulnerable. Increase in times of stress or illness.
I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo. :

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.

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#27 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 05:02 PM
 
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Well, I found my bowel tolerance dose last night. It came on 5 minutes after I took an extra 5 grams to get me to 65 so I'm thinking that 60 is the magic number. Today I reached bowel tolerance a couple hours after taking 28gms. I don't know how much this was affected by the fact I took my last dose of SA last night at 10 pm. I'll start all over again tomorrow morning.
Here is a strange thing that happened on both days of high C ( when taking AMLA and SA). After about 10 grams on each day I started to have all the symptoms of hayfever. The higher the doses got the worse the symptoms. They would also be worst from about 10 minutes after I took each dose until 45 minutes had passed and then they would decrease until the next dose. I was sneezing so much last night after reaching 40 grams that I had a hard time catching my breath since it was just sneeze, sneeze, sneeze: . This morning I only had a mild sniffle upon waking that got a little bit worse and totally vanished not to return as soon as I took my first dose of SA. Bizarre! I don't think it was an allergy, but a detox reaction. MT any thoughts?
Don't know if anyone else has found this to be true, but when I am really detoxing my pits get really stinky. Tea tree essential oil alone was a great deoderant (actually killing the bacteria) until I started selenium (which is part of the glut. pathway) 200 mg each day. I started to have odor for a month and then went back to being without odor until starting the ALA (again part of the glut. pathway) portion of my chelation and got stinky again that would decrease until I upped the ALA dose. I had major odor yesterday while trying to get to the optidose. DH never has body odor issues to the point that he only wears deoderant if playing soccer. When he started on selenium he only stunk for 2-3 days and was odor free again. He did stink again yesterday a few hours after taking 5 gms of SA. That is all he took yesterday and today he reached optidose after only 12 grams of SA although he is almost double my weight and eats his share of junk (though much less than he used to). I think he has a much more effective detox pathway than I do.
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#28 of 169 Old 08-26-2006, 05:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim
I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo. :

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.
I had a bit of cramping, but not bad and the diarrhea only kept me in the bathroom for ten minutes. DH had no cramping and I think was in the bathroom four times for just a few minutes after reaching optidose. I guess it is different for everyone. I'm sorry you had such a rough time. That would make me want to avoid it too.
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#29 of 169 Old 08-27-2006, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimim
I tried this a couple of months ago and it left me VERY uncomfortable, with repeat episodes of crampy diarrhea and gas for hours. I took about 1 gram per hour and when I reached 6g, I spent almost all of my time in the bathroom for the next 4 or 5 hours. Not the best way to occupy
your time if you are alone with a 4 yo and a 1 yo. :

I will NOT be trying this with my kids, nor will I ever "test my tolerance" again.
Did you use sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid? AA has the acidic ph that is very hard on the system. I also did a bowel flush last year with AA and while not as difficult as yours, was not something I'd wanna repeat! I've done very large amounts of SA with no trouble... the neutral ph makes it easier for the body to assimilate.
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#30 of 169 Old 08-27-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS
Did you use sodium ascorbate or ascorbic acid? AA has the acidic ph that is very hard on the system. I also did a bowel flush last year with AA and while not as difficult as yours, was not something I'd wanna repeat! I've done very large amounts of SA with no trouble... the neutral ph makes it easier for the body to assimilate.
It was sodium ascorbate.


I'm sure this process is really helpful for some people, but I wanted to remind everyone that diarrhea is not fun. :


Rainbow.gif ~ Molly
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