Healing the Gut in September - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-13-2006, 12:57 AM
 
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Sadly, no. And I have been getting work on my back (chirp and CST) for years with practitioners who are always ahead of the curve and have been talking about this for as long as I've known them. It may have helped move things along with my dietary changes, but there was no noticable differece before I modified that.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:45 AM
 
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Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her.
I did a quick Google to make sure I wasn't nuts. Here's a website that explained pretty much what the DAN told me about the test not being too reliable:
http://www.ei-resource.org/labtests.asp

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Although the CDSA does test for yeast and hence is often used if a Candida overgrowth is a suspected problem, many top functional medicine doctors agree that this particular test is not particularly reliable for this purpose as yeast can be found in the stool of perfectly healthy people and it will often give false negative results, i.e. indicate that no yeast were detected when in fact the patient DOES have a significant intestinal overgrowth. One reason for this is because overgrowth of yeast is predominantly a problem in the small intestine and since the stool is formed in the colon, the yeast do not get caught up in it, and hence show up on examination.
So that's just why I wouldn't put too much stock into a negative for yeast on that test...if you're seeing signs of yeast that's probably what it is. DD's D-Arabinitol (yeast metabolite not naturally occurring in the body) was off the charts at the same time as the CDSA came back negative for yeast.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:05 AM
 
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Oh, mamas. It's been a while since I've been here. My dd is still having problems with her digestions/yeast/eczema. We manage to control the eczema flares by avoiding dairy, but soy is a mild culprit, too, and that's been harder to avoid (or maybe I've just been too lazy <sigh>).

Anyway, dd's poops are pure liquid with chunky food in them. It's been like this for at least 2 mths. We've moved and are finally getting into a routine, and it just hit me yesterday that this is not a fluke. She is just not digesting properly and she has a bit of a yeast rash, too.

I just ordered Culturelle (lactobacillus gg) and Primadophilus Reuteri and Enzymedica Candidase. Dd is is still bfed, but she doesn't eat many solids. I can get her to eat a few bites of oatmeal or eggs. She does like meat. I'm going to work on vegetables this week. I need to try some new ones because she's not too keen on the ones we've been giving her. I just really want her to be okay. Dh is on board now so that helps. We're going to get the ingredients to make our own yogurt this week. Hopefully, I can get dd to eat some of it. I bought some goat yogurt at HF and she didn't really like it.

Anyway, I'm back on this thread. I'm a little: but in any case
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:09 AM
 
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I think combining the blood type diet with SCD would be next to impossible. Many of the SCD legal foods are not allowed on the blood type diet, and many of the blood type diet OK foods are not SCD legal. (eg. some grains and pinto beans, are for type O, but lentils and cauliflower, which are SCD legal, are not allowed with type O. Also, no blood type is supposed to consume coconut -- seems to go against the ancestral eating aspect, doesn't it?). Also, while cabbage and cauliflower are not allowed for type O, Kale and broccoli are, even though these are all mustard family plants.

I had a question, but I've forgotten it now. :P

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Old 09-13-2006, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
Yeah, and WHY do they only test for CANDIDA????? I don't get this. If yeast is such a bad thing then why not test for multiple types?
I had a longer post that I did last night but it's unfinished at home and I'm now at work. But before I forget, the short answer is two-fold: (a) Candida is the most likely fungal species to be present in the gut (most of the other human fungal pathogens colonize other parts of the body) and (b) because "they" don't know all that is in the gut, they can't really look for it (*).

I did (re)learn last night that we need to be careful about terminology. Some fungal species live double lives - some part as "hyphal" and as "yeast" (spores). Think of "yeast" as the form that you would find in the bread yeast from a jar. And the hyphal form is what enables those cute fairy rings of mushrooms to pop up in your yard - the hyphae connect all the different patches of 'shrooms (or "woof", as ds calls them). It is the hyphal form that gives us leaky guts. Lots of cool info at http://doctorfungus.org

(*) We only just recently developed techniques to sequence DNA without knowing the species a priori - and even then, not many centers are doing large scale sequencing (which is what it would take to fully sequence human gut flora). Also, the sequencing centers have biases right now towards "charismatic organisms" (as the conservation biologists call them) - the warm fuzzy things that are meaningful to people. This is YOUR (U.S.) dime, after all, that's paying for the research...

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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Old 09-13-2006, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Pattyla]Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her. I haven't gotten me tested.

It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.

Oh and she said that Dr Terry Willard, herbalist and founder of Wild Rose COllege in Canada found that he could culture and grow candida with stevia. That is the only sweetener we have been using. Not sure what to do now.


Oh no, i've been using stevia...not much, though. I'd like to see some research on this.


I'd rather do honey than splenda. You don't want more chlorine in your gut.

I just made a delicious cake for my own bday. Jane's cashew cake and for frosting and cream between the layers: heavy whipping cream (I know it's illegal but has minimal lactose) with cashew butter, vanilla and stevia. I knwo you can't do dairy
You could mix nut butter with coconut oil and stevia/honey and put it on while it soft. When it's on th cake, Put it in the freezer real quick to harden.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:05 PM
 
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Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.

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Old 09-13-2006, 01:07 PM
 
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[QUOTE=EBG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla
Ok if the poop test is so good why did it show nothing for my dd?? No yeast, no bacteria, (except a low ammount of bifidus). Did we get the wrong test? I just did the yeast and bacteria part of the CDSA for her. I haven't gotten me tested.

It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.

Oh and she said that Dr Terry Willard, herbalist and founder of Wild Rose COllege in Canada found that he could culture and grow candida with stevia. That is the only sweetener we have been using. Not sure what to do now.


Oh no, i've been using stevia...not much, though. I'd like to see some research on this.


I'd rather do honey than splenda. You don't want more chlorine in your gut.

I just made a delicious cake for my own bday. Jane's cashew cake and for frosting and cream between the layers: heavy whipping cream (I know it's illegal but has minimal lactose) with cashew butter, vanilla and stevia. I knwo you can't do dairy
You could mix nut butter with coconut oil and stevia/honey and put it on while it soft. When it's on th cake, Put it in the freezer real quick to harden.
THe problem with honey is that if dd gets some she isn't nice to be arround. Not exactly a good idea for a b-day party. (ie she starts hitting other kids and generally acting agressive )

Perhaps saccarine? I have made the cashew butter cake with honey and it is delicious but with stevia, it tastes like bread.

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Old 09-13-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pookietooth
Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.
Since we cut out fruit dd gained 1 lb in 3 weeks. When we cut out all dairy she gained 1 lb in 1 week. She has always been skinny for her height. I think that the foods that were hurting her gut made it impossible for her to gain weight. She actually might be normal now. (she also gained an inch in height in those 3 weeks after we cut out fruit and more height when we cut out dairy, I'm not sure how much though.)

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Old 09-13-2006, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I'm off cabbage juice. My DH and MIL just couldn't handle the smell. I stink. They don't complain about garlic but they do mention I smell like kimchi. And they don't mean it as a compliment.
So any other way??? The yogurt wasn't doing much, I'm not sure how much the rejuvelac was doing this past month... maybe I'll give kefir another try.
I put it in the freezer in a plastic bag. Did I kill it? I didn't follow Dom's instructions. You think I can still bring it back?
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:27 PM
 
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I did it! The coconut yogurt was a success. Unfortunately I have to take dh's word for it until I get me a df starter. I should be ordering today. I'm so happy! I can't stand yogurt, but I will put it into a smoothie. Kiddos will gobble it up though!
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:28 PM
 
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Pattyla-same here. Dd was FTT until SCD. What happened was the diet cut out her major allergens. Kids frequently are incapable of gaining weight with damaged guts.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Pattyla]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBG

THe problem with honey is that if dd gets some she isn't nice to be arround. Not exactly a good idea for a b-day party. (ie she starts hitting other kids and generally acting agressive )

Perhaps saccarine? I have made the cashew butter cake with honey and it is delicious but with stevia, it tastes like bread.
Is saccharine heat-stable. Can you get it in liquid?
yes stevia doesn't really work for baked goods...


Bananas work well to add sweetness and bulk. I used to make coconut-banana muffins...
or when you make pancakes with nut butters and banana

I don't see why you couldn' try to add a couple to a nut butter batter.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:47 PM
 
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No fruit at all. Not even bananas..0

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Old 09-13-2006, 01:56 PM
 
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I make a raw banana coconut muffin with a buttery spread (no butter), what's in the cooked version?

I'm so sad about eating some cooked foods again. I don't know what the point is if I can't use eggs or dairy. What in god's name am I supposed to be making? That's the GOOD stuff that make the treats! I'm not used to cooking without butter (which was always clarified, and this babe can't even do that without two days of puking and not pooping) and what in the world can I bake without eggs? I can't even make a friggin meatloaf! Yar. (that was a pirate sound BTW) Raw was so much easier. Sigh.
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Old 09-13-2006, 01:57 PM
 
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Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly! :
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by firefaery
Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly! :
Just season them with salt, pepper and marjoram, or cumin, paprika, put them in a baking dish and bake at 350 for about an hour. Sinde they have no skin put a pat uf butter or olive oil on the top, or coconut oil.

Or make broth and the cooked meat can be taken off the bone and sauteed in butter/CO and spices (salt, cumin, chili powder) with peppers and onions for fajitas.

Sorry, my coconut-banana muffins have eggs. I just use very finely ground coconut (about 1 cup- or to make it not firm but not liquid either when mixed), bananas 1-2, 3 eggs and 1/2 tsp (I think) baking soda.
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I think somebody here found out how to use gelatin for baking instead of eggs. Step forward, please and share.:
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Old 09-13-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Pattyla--there's a recipe on pecanbread.com for banana nut butter muffins that don't contain any honey. They are pretty good and have a sweet taste--maybe you could either call them cupcakes. And maybe you could just use plain nut butter for frosting.

EBG--how much CO are you using a day? I think for me CO is a stronger anti-fungal than garlic. I take 5 cloves of garlic a day divided between breakfast & lunch. I eat about 2 Tbsp. of CO at breakfast and 5-6 at lunch. Since we got back from vacation I've been having die-off symptoms shortly after lunch, and I think they must be due to the large amount of CO I take at lunch, since I take garlic in the morning, also, and don't have die-off after that.

What about just using lacto-fermented foods instead of rejuvelac? Or maybe try water kefirs and see if those work for you.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:08 PM
 
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I found a new SBO candida product--what does everyone think?
http://www.flora-balance.com/Flora-Balance.htm
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn
Pattyla--there's a recipe on pecanbread.com for banana nut butter muffins that don't contain any honey. They are pretty good and have a sweet taste--maybe you could either call them cupcakes. And maybe you could just use plain nut butter for frosting.

EBG--how much CO are you using a day? I think for me CO is a stronger anti-fungal than garlic. I take 5 cloves of garlic a day divided between breakfast & lunch. I eat about 2 Tbsp. of CO at breakfast and 5-6 at lunch. Since we got back from vacation I've been having die-off symptoms shortly after lunch, and I think they must be due to the large amount of CO I take at lunch, since I take garlic in the morning, also, and don't have die-off after that.

What about just using lacto-fermented foods instead of rejuvelac? Or maybe try water kefirs and see if those work for you.
We can't do bananas.

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Old 09-13-2006, 04:26 PM
 
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If anyone's interested, the guy at Custom Probiotics is very knowledgeable and will help you choose one suited for you. I emailed him dd's CDSA results and he emailed back right away w/some info and asked me to call him for more.

I just ordered some and it should be here Friday. Not looking forward to the die off though.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Annikate
hi,
trying to keep up with the thread...ton of great info. i wanted to say i did order a non-dairy blend of probiotics from custom. i would love to say they are working wonderfully (they were so stinkin' expensive), but i honestly can't tell. we are on a modified scd (taking a lot from scd into account, but adding certain illegals hoping for weight gain in ds), are doing enzymes, taking probiotics and increasing our raw/fermented foods. ds seems to be on a healing path...how much of it is the probiotic...who can tell?

i did receive prompt service from them and ds, who has struggled with other probiotics, does well on this blend. good luck.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
Any ideas on calorie-laden SCD legal foods for a picky eater? DH is worried about ds's slenderness, and wants me to introduce grains to put weight on him. He is skinny as a rail. And eats tons of fruit, but doesn't like eggs or things made with nut butter, or very much meat, or veggies. Loves honey. Sigh.
If you were to introduce grains, maybe quinoa? I've actually been able to eat Trader Joe's dark rye sourdough bread on rare occasion, as I, too, need the calories for nursing, and am dairy-free.

Have you made Jane's cashew butter cake or choco nut cake for him or the midas gold pancakes? Those taste close enough to the real thing to me. DH even loves them and he gets to eat real carbs.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla

It has tons of info on everything under the sun that could treat candida. Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook. It just has a ton of info. It isn't so much a concise "follow our program and you will be well" as a "here's your options and the benefits and drawbacks of each one" It still contains the authors opinion but she even puts in a bunch of things that she doesn't think work for you to mull over.

Oh and she said that Dr Terry Willard, herbalist and founder of Wild Rose COllege in Canada found that he could culture and grow candida with stevia. That is the only sweetener we have been using. Not sure what to do now.
Thanks for the book recommendation, I've placed it on hold at my library.

Seriously? Stevia is all we use...I'd like to read more about that.:
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by firefaery
Anyone here have an idea for boneless chicken thighs that are in my fridge? I am dh-less today and need to figure out an easy dinner...The only thing I know how to make is a honey mustard sauce. That's losing it's appeal quickly! :
I've been making this lately:

tomatoes (deseeded), avacado, 1 slice of onion pressed through garlic press, 1 clove garlic pressed through garlic press, juice of 1 lemon or lime, s+P to taste - whiz in food processor to coarsely chop. Add cooked chicken, pulse 1-2x, voila! Southwest chicken salad. If you pulse it too much it becomes a dip, but is still delicious
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkamama
hi,
trying to keep up with the thread...ton of great info. i wanted to say i did order a non-dairy blend of probiotics from custom. i would love to say they are working wonderfully (they were so stinkin' expensive), but i honestly can't tell. we are on a modified scd (taking a lot from scd into account, but adding certain illegals hoping for weight gain in ds), are doing enzymes, taking probiotics and increasing our raw/fermented foods. ds seems to be on a healing path...how much of it is the probiotic...who can tell?

i did receive prompt service from them and ds, who has struggled with other probiotics, does well on this blend. good luck.
Good to know! Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:06 PM
 
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How could this be die-off related? Anyone else with this experience. The first two weeks of my program were the absolute worst, but then I got into a groove (relatively), with anxiety coming and going, and then I added some things last week, and then again yesterday, and my anxiety has been returning since last week. On the up side, I have had symptom reduction, which makes me think die-off, but physiologically, I dont get it. What's the connection, and are there any vitamins/minerals I might benefit from. Im wary of taking *too much* mag., as I want to feel energetic enough to exercise (to help with the anxiety - lol). I have been taking 600mg/day, with 600mg cal., but was doing some reading on it today and its better to take on an empty stomach (I havent been), and Im not clear on the relationship btwn mag. and cal. Dont they inhibit each other or something? I literally open my eyes in the morning (interestingly, I sleep plenty) and feel the anxiety creep into my body; warm face, sleepyness, mind that wont stop.

Annikate - let us know about the new pb's. What do you notice/expect for die-off? I ask b/c I started new pb's a week ago and the anxiety started

Cademyn - hmmm ... that flora balance (name?) looks promising - maybe too much so. 28 days huh? I would love for you to try it and report

On another note - I have suspected, since learning all that I have in the past 6 wks, that ds has some digestive, maybe yeast issues. He has never tolerated milk, although is fine with other dairy. His growth and behavior are great, BUT, he had abx at birth (gbs+ and lack of education : ) and again at 6 mos for an ear infection (ugh - im embarresed to even say it - i clearly didnt know!). So I started him on 24hr. yogurt, reuteri cap/day, sprouted bread (its a start), and cod liver oil this week. The first few days of the reuteri his poops looked great - solid (they've always been loose, milk just makes his bm/sac inflamed and swollen). Then after two days of solid (2 days od 24 hr yogurt) he had major diarhea yesterday (4x, looser each time) By the end of the day he had a swollen flaming bottom. It went away by this a.m. with burts bees, but there were too small sores. Dh looked at them this afternoon and said, "now that looks like yeast" (he's the md who has called what Im doing my 'yeast infatuation', although he's gotten MUCH better). So what Im wondering/suspecting is, this is die-off diarhea from the yogurt and I shouldnt stop it. Of course he has yeast, given his hx and mommy. At first I thought, 'no more yogurt, just the reuteri' (the yogurt is cultured with childrens primadophilus - green jar), but like I said, store yogurt has never caused this. Should I stick with the 24hr yogurt? Have any of you/your dc's had this when they started prob's? On a positive note, he has seemed more happy than usual this week :

Thanks for reading this lonngggg post. Ill stop typing now

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Old 09-13-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookietooth
I think combining the blood type diet with SCD would be next to impossible. Many of the SCD legal foods are not allowed on the blood type diet, and many of the blood type diet OK foods are not SCD legal. (eg. some grains and pinto beans, are for type O, but lentils and cauliflower, which are SCD legal, are not allowed with type O. Also, no blood type is supposed to consume coconut -- seems to go against the ancestral eating aspect, doesn't it?). Also, while cabbage and cauliflower are not allowed for type O, Kale and broccoli are, even though these are all mustard family plants.

I had a question, but I've forgotten it now. :P
It is difficult to combine the two diets, but I am following SCD and avoiding those foods that are bad for us, which isn't that many more than before. At this point I am willing to try anything. Plus the fact that I am allowing myself a little sweet treat here and there I am a lot happier . In 24 hrs since I have been avoiding his list of bad foods his ring around his anus is almost completely gone and his cheeks are healing with no new red bumps showing themselves. It is way too soon to say it is successful but the results seem promising. I don't know about the science behind the diet yet but it does seem strange that coconut is bad for everyone.


EGG Substitute
Recipe by Maggie Severns

Recipe:
1 egg = 1 tsp gelatin, 3 Tbs cold water and 7 tsp boiling water
2 eggs= 2 tsp gelatin, 1/3 C. cold water and 1/2 C boiling Water
3 eggs= 1 Tbs gelatin, 1/2 C. cold water and 1/2 C Boiling water

Before Baking:
1. Place, cold water in bowl
2. Sprinkle gelatin to soften. Mix thoroughly with spoon.
3. Add boiling water until desolved.
4. Place in freezer to thicken while mixing cake or cookies or refrigerate
(refrigeration takes a little longer)
5. When time to add eggs, take thickened gelatin from freezer or refrigerator and beat until it's frothy.. <---------- THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT!!

6. Add to recipe instead of eggs.

I have not tried this substitute yet...

We create our own reality.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
EBG
 
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Caedmyn,

I don't really keep track of how much CO I take. A spoonful here and there.... I used to take about 2-3 tbs and besides making my face worse it made me really sick at night. One time when I had too much before going to bed, I woke up in the middle of the night with a huge hard belly and pain and I was so sick! After I had BM things calmed down but then I decided not to take so much any more and so far so good. Now I don't know if it was die-off, because I didn't have stomach issues with the yeast before, just itchies and rashes, which the garlic definitely made worse so I know that IS die-off. Maybe it was just too much fat at one time and lack of enzymes, however CO shouldn't need anything, right?
garlic: Right now I eat 6-12 cloves when I'm at home and I don't have die-off at this time so I wonder if I need more but I don't think I can handle any more. One of the guys who's doing Bee's diet was taking like 15-16 bulbs to get some results.
I'll try candizyme (I won a bid on e-bay, yay) during my vacation and see if it does anything. Other than that, I'm thinking oregano oil since I'm not nursing.


Yeast in DD; my 3-yo still has a red ring plus she gets these whiteheads on her butt. What is that? Yeast also? Her diet has been bad lately as DH is sabotaging my efforts, so yesterday she was fed pizza and straight OJ and salted cashews at MIL's. I slipped an enzyme in her drink but that's not gonna eliminate the sugar load. Needless to say eczema showed up again today.
I don't know what to do!!!! I've been putting CO on her bum... She doesn't seem to eat enough yogurt any more... I can't afford special probiotics. Her enzymes are running out...and she just wants to eat bananas all day. Her behavior is horrible, lately she's been throwing several tantrums a day. refuses to eat real food, just wants fruit and junk that DH eats.
My 1-yo is a little better-off as I can control her diet better but she also has diaper yeast issues.
Burts Bees actually works really well, I also combine it with CO. It works better than CO itself.
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