A baby who doesn't poop. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 34 Old 11-07-2006, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I have exhausted my resources (of which there are many.) I'm posting this as a serious longshot. Maybe it will jog someone's memory or something-who knows.

My newest ds doesn't poop. Well, to clarify, he poops very infrequently-as in once every ten days. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable, is thriving and meeting all of his developmental milestones and generally a very happy little man.

He has at least three food allergies that I am aware of (that provoke an immediate and clear response.) I'm sure there are more, but my many dietary changes have not uncovered them. I have gone off nuts, legumes, seeds, beans, nightshades, animal products etc. I have done them all for long enough periods of time to see a difference. The only ones that are clear are soy, dairy and eggs.

He has minor structural stuff that is begin addressed very consistently. He also had a tongue tie. All of the midline stuff has been assessed and I am comfortable with everybody's reports. He has trouble bearing down with his diaphragm, and we're working on it. The problem is he consistently goes ten days without a bowel movement and when he goes it's just once. Not a large one either, just one regular bm-then nothing for another ten days. There is no blockage or build up in his intestinal tract. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable and it isn't difficult for him to have the bm.

It is the right color, though the consistency is off. It's sometimes a bit thick, and sometimes a bit runny. IT smells exactly as it should.

I haven't been able to find a probiotic that he can tolerate yet, so we're also working on that. I am very clear on what needs to happen in his gut, what I'm not clear on is why isn't he producing more waste? Anybody? Given what I've said, would you worry? This is absolutely not a normal stooling pattern, but aside from *knowing* that, nothing else appears to be a problem. Thanks for any insights.
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#2 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Nothing?
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#3 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 03:03 AM
 
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well, i'm no expert but i've heard that it is normal for exclusively breastfed babies to go sometime without pooing as long as they are over two months or one month of age. I had a friend who said EBF her baby pooped only once a week but when she did poo it was enormous!!! Hope this helps!
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#4 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 06:03 AM
 
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my dd (9 months) had a non-severe condition called lymphnode hypoplasia. basically, it is an immaturityof the intestines. i had to go off dairy, nuts, soy, wheat, eggs, most legumes etc.

that started when she was about 2 1/2 months old. to make a very long story short, she still has problems pooping. she gets very constipated and sometimes won't go for days or even a week or more.

i tried many of the obvious natural remedies...organic prune juice, lots of H2O, psyllium seeds etc., but none of them had acceptable results and they all had their own drawbacks.

after doing a little searching on the MDC forums.....many mamas have done their research and discovered that more often than not, irregular or watery stools are a direct result of a MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY. they recommended emphatically (and so do i!!!) liquid calcium/magnesium supplement.

my dd pooped normally within a few hours of taking it. i try to give her a tsp or so everyday.

i looked for a brand that had as few other ingredients as possible and of course contained none of the normal allergens. the brand i use is bluebonnet.
i picked the strawberry flavor. my dd loves it!!! she "mmmmms" the whole time.

some mdc moms only had luck with homeopathic sulfur. i tried that with dd but didn't work for her. you'll just have to see what works for your ds.

by the way...i spent about $20 at the health food store for BOTH these remedies. the magnesium was about $11 and the sulfur was about $9.

let us know if this helps!!

oh also i noticed when i don't give my dd the magnesium her stools smell REALLY funky!
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#5 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 06:34 AM
 
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From what I can find out it is normal for a breastfed baby to go as long as 2 weeks without pooing. If he isnt uncomfortable then my guess is he is fine. I know my ds was a very infrequent pooer every 5-7 days sometimes more sometimes less then he would have a massive poo and be fine.

The reason they can go so long and it be ok is that breast milk is so easy to digest there just isnt that much to poo out in some cases. Honestly I wouldnt worry since it is normal color, smell and thickness when he does go.

 
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#6 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karre View Post
well, i'm no expert but i've heard that it is normal for exclusively breastfed babies to go sometime without pooing as long as they are over two months or one month of age. I had a friend who said EBF her baby pooped only once a week but when she did poo it was enormous!!! Hope this helps!
The problem is that this has been since day 1. His first bm after his initial passing of meconium was at 6 days. And they are never large.
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#7 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by greenlace View Post
my dd (9 months) had a non-severe condition called lymphnode hypoplasia. basically, it is an immaturityof the intestines. i had to go off dairy, nuts, soy, wheat, eggs, most legumes etc.

that started when she was about 2 1/2 months old. to make a very long story short, she still has problems pooping. she gets very constipated and sometimes won't go for days or even a week or more.

i tried many of the obvious natural remedies...organic prune juice, lots of H2O, psyllium seeds etc., but none of them had acceptable results and they all had their own drawbacks.

after doing a little searching on the MDC forums.....many mamas have done their research and discovered that more often than not, irregular or watery stools are a direct result of a MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY. they recommended emphatically (and so do i!!!) liquid calcium/magnesium supplement.

my dd pooped normally within a few hours of taking it. i try to give her a tsp or so everyday.

i looked for a brand that had as few other ingredients as possible and of course contained none of the normal allergens. the brand i use is bluebonnet.
i picked the strawberry flavor. my dd loves it!!! she "mmmmms" the whole time.

some mdc moms only had luck with homeopathic sulfur. i tried that with dd but didn't work for her. you'll just have to see what works for your ds.

by the way...i spent about $20 at the health food store for BOTH these remedies. the magnesium was about $11 and the sulfur was about $9.

let us know if this helps!!

oh also i noticed when i don't give my dd the magnesium her stools smell REALLY funky!
I am one of the biggest advocates of magnesium supplementation around. I have tried homeopathics (we use a classical homeopath.) I have tried several forms of magnesium, though only one of them given directly to him as none of my care providers have felt comfortable doing so with others(and neither have I.)

The stool isn't generally watery, but a mix of pasty and normal. They have been watery at times, however.

We are looking now at the development of the nerves in the intestinal tract-similar to what you are describing.

My biggest issue is that this started AT BIRTH. There was never a normal stooling pattern. Was your dd's normal until 2.5 months? OR still strange just not as bad?
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#8 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Out of curiosity, was your dd tongue tied or did she have any other noticable midline defects?
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#9 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 10:36 AM
 
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My DD has stooled infrequently since birth. I tried everything I could find to help and I guess she just happens to be the rare baby that just poos infrequently. Every once in a while, it is 2x a day, usually it is every 5-7 days. She doesn't seem uncomfortable, is doing great with milestones (rolls over both ways, doing the army crawl, babbles), and doubled her birth weight a long time ago. She is 4 mo., was 6 lb 8 oz at birth and now weighs 15-16 lbs. Oh yeah, and it is often pasty.

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#10 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 03:16 PM
 
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well it is more concerning to hear that you babe has had infrequent poos since birth. Especially the meconium!!! Have you discussed it with your doc??? i would recommend that.
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#11 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yup. Our doc made a housecall at day 5 to check him out. We have no answers...just ideas.
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#12 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 05:21 PM
 
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There is a condition called delayed gastric emptying or DGE and it can involve the stomach or the lower GI tract. One of the main symptoms is infrequent bm's or chronic constipation. There are not many tests they can do for this that are not invasive, and it may not be to the point where it needs to be tested yet. Just keep an eye on it. The breastmilk is great because it's so easy to digest, but once he starts solids there may be some problems. Be aggressive with the ped if you feel there is a problem, and push for answers.

Good luck!

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#13 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
Out of curiosity, was your dd tongue tied or did she have any other noticable midline defects?
no, she wasn't tt and the ped gi didn't mention anything about midline defects.


[QOUTE=I am one of the biggest advocates of magnesium supplementation around. I have tried homeopathics (we use a classical homeopath.) I have tried several forms of magnesium, though only one of them given directly to him as none of my care providers have felt comfortable doing so with others(and neither have I.)

The stool isn't generally watery, but a mix of pasty and normal. They have been watery at times, however.

We are looking now at the development of the nerves in the intestinal tract-similar to what you are describing.

My biggest issue is that this started AT BIRTH. There was never a normal stooling pattern. Was your dd's normal until 2.5 months? OR still strange just not as bad?[/QOUTE]

her stools were fairly normal for the first couple weeks. although she wouldn't pass meconium everyday. she also exhibited the classic "colic" signs at about 3 weeks old.

have you tried massage? this seemed to help my dd as well. of course there was never immediate relief with the massage, but the combination of magnesium, massage and warm baths REALLY helps her.

i hope that you can get this issue figured out. it is SOOO hard and frustrating to see your little one going through this.
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#14 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have done massage with castor oil as well as castor oil packs. It helps a bit (I think!)

I have no problems with mag. deficiency either. I take a supplement (NaturalCalm) daily and have since before I got pregnant...I should have mentioned that before! In fact we have wondered if ther ewas too much mag in his system. I cut it out for about two weeks, but there wasn't a difference.
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#15 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is a condition called delayed gastric emptying or DGE and it can involve the stomach or the lower GI tract. One of the main symptoms is infrequent bm's or chronic constipation. There are not many tests they can do for this that are not invasive, and it may not be to the point where it needs to be tested yet. Just keep an eye on it. The breastmilk is great because it's so easy to digest, but once he starts solids there may be some problems. Be aggressive with the ped if you feel there is a problem, and push for answers.

Good luck!
Could that be a concern if there is appropriate weight gain? I thought in instances of gastroparesis the baby was generally FTT. Do you have any info on what it would look like in an infant? I couldn't find much when I looked for it awhile back..
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#16 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 10:52 PM
 
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I've never heard the term midline defect, except maybe in relation to vitamin A deficiency. Have you seen those discussions in TF forum?

Have you not found a dairy free bifidus that will work for you? Custom Probiotics has non dairy B. Infantis and it is of human origin.

The more I've learned about probiotics these past few months, I think Gottschall is very wrong about bifidus supplements. Bifidus is 90% of the colon flora in adults, it's meant to "overgrow". Bifidus balances both constipation and diarrhea by regulating transit through the colon. And as you know, it is over 90% for total gut flora in infants and should be their only probiotic supplement.
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#17 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 11:16 PM
 
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Some babies just don't poop frequently even from birth. It is unusual to have that scarce of a pooping from day one but occasionally it does happen. Certainly at this age it's totally normal to only poop once every ten days. If he's been examined and there isn't a blockage and he is healthy and gaining I would try not to worry about it.
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#18 of 34 Old 11-08-2006, 11:26 PM
 
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Usually they have feeding problems due to lack of appetite from being backed up. But not always. I am part of a feeding/g-tube group and there are some kids with normal growth who have DGE. They just have to take a lot of laxatives and stuff. DGE can be in various forms, from mild to severe. In the most severe form part of the GI system is paralzyed or so uncoordinated that it's not functional.

From my experience reading about others with DGE babies, there is usually a lot of constipation, gas, bloating, and reflux. Not always though.

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#19 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Usually they have feeding problems due to lack of appetite from being backed up. But not always. I am part of a feeding/g-tube group and there are some kids with normal growth who have DGE. They just have to take a lot of laxatives and stuff. DGE can be in various forms, from mild to severe. In the most severe form part of the GI system is paralzyed or so uncoordinated that it's not functional.

From my experience reading about others with DGE babies, there is usually a lot of constipation, gas, bloating, and reflux. Not always though.

That does describe us to a T.
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#20 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've never heard the term midline defect, except maybe in relation to vitamin A deficiency. Have you seen those discussions in TF forum?

Have you not found a dairy free bifidus that will work for you? Custom Probiotics has non dairy B. Infantis and it is of human origin.

The more I've learned about probiotics these past few months, I think Gottschall is very wrong about bifidus supplements. Bifidus is 90% of the colon flora in adults, it's meant to "overgrow". Bifidus balances both constipation and diarrhea by regulating transit through the colon. And as you know, it is over 90% for total gut flora in infants and should be their only probiotic supplement.
Jane, I haven't. Nothing has been cultured on anything acceptable, or far away enough that he doesn't react. Anything that might be okay isn't acceptable when it comes to the strains. I'm with you, Gottschall missed the boat.

I will contact Custom. I know a probiotic is necessary which is why I've been chasing them so much. I just can't believe that it's the only thing given the lack of output.

Midline defects can range from major to minor and there are often more than one. Dd had a tongue tie and an intergluteal cleft (minor on the spectrum, but there.) This one had tongue tie, and we're wondering about lack of development of nerves, hernias or malrotation. There's no twists or blockages that have been detected. I am sure it's related to a deficiency (though there is talk now of midline defects-major and minor being a result of ultrasound exposure. We never had one, so that's out.) Like the autism spectrum you can have something major and very apparent or much more subtle. They all end up on that spectrum though. Since ds1 had none, I'm guessing that my stores weren't rebuilt and maintained properly. I'm not getting stuck there, because it *could* be something as minor as an imbalance of intestinal flora. I was battling yeast at the tail end of my pg.

I'm not a huge fan of modern invasive medicine. We have not done any scans, ultrasounds or x rays. I have employed the expertise of several professionals in their respective fields. Two of them are MD's. Another is a PT. He has been assessed and has only minor structual issues that are being addressed. What they found explains the difficulty stooling, but not the small amount. I'm looking for suggestions so that I don't miss the boat. He is a very happy guy who is thriving. I just want to know where the heck the rest of the poop is.

Thanks for all the responses!
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#21 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 04:44 PM
 
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How frustrating! I hope you find your answers soon. LMK what Custom Probiotics says.

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Originally Posted by firefaery
I just want to know where the heck the rest of the poop is.
I really don't know for sure but if I had to guess it is that the poop is so small because it's staying in the colon for so long... the water is completely removed and there really is such little waste to BM. And the bacteria, both good and bad has died off maybe? Bacteria makes up half of stool contents. But this is not say it's okay. The longer poop stays in the intestines, the more bad bacteria grows. I think you are right to continue to persue this angle, given you know you've had major and minor gut flora problems in the past. Even if the cause is structural, this doesn't mean the gut flora isn't effected. Which I'm sure you know. CP better come thru for you!

I've never heard of ultrasound being a risk factor, that's creepy. Clefts are vitamin A.
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#22 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 04:52 PM
 
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Both of my kids were very infrequent poopers, tho BF, and it did concern me, because they were both totally miserable with it. Having that poop was a major issue. My SIL is dealing with this now - her son poops every 10 days or so and it just doesn't seem right. I have a friend whose baby only went every 7 or 8 days but he'd take a giant poop and for him it seemed like no biggie.

I waited it out with #1 - it resolved itself around 3 months along with his colic.

With #2, I took him to the chiro at about 3 months for his reflux, and the pooping issue was over as of the first visit. He pooped bigtime and continued to poop daily or every other after that. It was wonderful to me to see those poops in there!

I don't know where the poop goes either. Neither of mine pooped large volumes at that time either.
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#23 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How frustrating! I hope you find your answers soon. LMK what Custom Probiotics says.



I really don't know for sure but if I had to guess it is that the poop is so small because it's staying in the colon for so long... the water is completely removed and there really is such little waste to BM. And the bacteria, both good and bad has died off maybe? Bacteria makes up half of stool contents. But this is not say it's okay. The longer poop stays in the intestines, the more bad bacteria grows. I think you are right to continue to persue this angle, given you know you've had major and minor gut flora problems in the past. Even if the cause is structural, this doesn't mean the gut flora isn't effected. Which I'm sure you know. CP better come thru for you!


I've never heard of ultrasound being a risk factor, that's creepy. Clefts are vitamin A.

Clefts are Vitamin A, but I'm wondering if the other midline stuff is too...looking into that.

You are right about the volume (sitting in the intestines and being reabsorbed) but ten days of elimination should look like more than this given that it isn't hard or stiff...alot of times it's very close to being normal. There is a structural aspect, but I'm still not okay with this at all.

I am worried about the bacteria thing...very worried. CP (Harry) is amazing. I'll write more after our conversation this evening. He was wonderful this morning.
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#24 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Both of my kids were very infrequent poopers, tho BF, and it did concern me, because they were both totally miserable with it. Having that poop was a major issue. My SIL is dealing with this now - her son poops every 10 days or so and it just doesn't seem right. I have a friend whose baby only went every 7 or 8 days but he'd take a giant poop and for him it seemed like no biggie.

I waited it out with #1 - it resolved itself around 3 months along with his colic.

With #2, I took him to the chiro at about 3 months for his reflux, and the pooping issue was over as of the first visit. He pooped bigtime and continued to poop daily or every other after that. It was wonderful to me to see those poops in there!

I don't know where the poop goes either. Neither of mine pooped large volumes at that time either.

That's great! This little one has gotten CST and chiro from the day he was born-usually two to three times a week. I love our chiropractor! Actually, I had two chiro's with me for the last six hours of my labor to fix his position. Sooo, technically he had chiropractic care even before he was born!
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#25 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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Clefts are Vitamin A, but I'm wondering if the other midline stuff is too...looking into that.
This is the info that made me think of it:

Quote:
Another fascinating avenue of research has shown that vitamin A holds the key to what scientists call the "holy grail" puzzle of developmental biology: the existence of a mechanism that ensures that the exterior of our bodies is symmetrical while the inner organs are arranged asymmetrically. Researchers at the Salk Institute have found that vitamin A provides the signal that buffers the influences of asymmetric cues in the early stages of development, and allows these cells to develop symmetrically. In the absence of vitamin A, the exterior of our bodies would develop asymmetrically, with the result being that our right side would be shorter than the left side.3
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...n-a-fetal.html
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9979
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I am worried about the bacteria thing...very worried. CP (Harry) is amazing. I'll write more after our conversation this evening. He was wonderful this morning.
Great!! Please do and I'll put it in the HTG Cheat Sheet.

Knowing how much gut flora directs the digestive as well as the immune system, I feel every babe should be on bifidus.
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#26 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I'm feeling confused. I spoke to Harry and he is being wonderful. He is sending us L. acidophilus and B. bifidum. He said he wasn't going to chance the B. infantis as he couldn't attest to it being totally dairy free. He also said that everything he has is grown on dairy, but their's is then concentrated and cleaned. I expressed my discomfort and he is sending a sample so I can test it and see if he reacts. I'm very nervous though. He basically said that all probiotics are grown on dairy-it's just a matter of what they are cultured on after that. I was under the impression that he could grow things on other mediums...I didn't realize we were running the dairy risk no matter what. : I'm also suprised he is giving us L. acidophilus for a four month old that is ebf. I'm holding my breath. We'll see.
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#27 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 10:44 PM
 
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My dd had infrequent stools since birth. her first meconium poop wasn't until day 4 (i produce a lot of milk ) and then not again till day 9 but after that her regular routing was to go every 6-10 days. sometimes it had the consistency of toothpaste, but most often it was just regular mustard bf baby poop.

I know a pp mentioned being concerned about when babe starts solids. I delayed solids until 10 months and really focused on watery fruits and vegetables as her first foods and lots of them. She only has one bowel movement a day now, and it is firmer than I would like, but it does not cause her any discomfort and she does eat a full diet as well as unrestricted bm (she's 18 months now)
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#28 of 34 Old 11-09-2006, 11:57 PM
 
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my twins would go so long without poos too, and then barely anything. people say it's normal, but just cause it happens a lot doesn't mean it's normal. i hadn't put that fact into consideration of our own ongoing issues. the infrequent poos turned into multiple yellow poos a day at some point in one baby--she wasn't absorbing anything, had that "normal" bloated out belly, and a little herniated belly button. colic from hell, times two. anyway, she either always had or early on developed a yeast problem. scd helped it, but i changed tactics and it just came back this week--and i'm pretty sure the cause is the tomato sauce and apple juice and raisins i've been spoiling them with since we just got off casein and gluten (which i thought i had done by just getting rid of grains--damn mustard, vanilla!)--all they were eating was high phenol foods. and i eat what they eat. they went to bed so easily tonight without those foods. (have to see if there are yeasty poos tomorrow.)

sorry to go on, but i thought phenols might be irritating.........?

sux about the dairy risk!!!!!!!!! i can't find anything to give either. i do kmobucha for myself, but not sure it's right.....

oh, i remember thinking that there was no way they nursed as much as they did and that was all that came out--they must have been searching for nutrients! i remember expecting them to go at least once a day, just like older people do. it was very odd to me, but i was assured it was normal. they were essentially ftt from 3 - 6 months.
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#29 of 34 Old 11-10-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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Since the poops are often pasty, they could very well be "super concentrated"- 10 days worth of poop in a fairly small package.

Some babies don't poop often because there isn't much in breastmilk that's "waste." Infrequent poops CAN BE a sign of an intestinal blockage, but you've already ruled that out.

Have you already tried chiropractic care?

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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#30 of 34 Old 11-10-2006, 02:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
Okay, I'm feeling confused. I spoke to Harry and he is being wonderful. He is sending us L. acidophilus and B. bifidum. He said he wasn't going to chance the B. infantis as he couldn't attest to it being totally dairy free. He also said that everything he has is grown on dairy, but their's is then concentrated and cleaned. I expressed my discomfort and he is sending a sample so I can test it and see if he reacts. I'm very nervous though. He basically said that all probiotics are grown on dairy-it's just a matter of what they are cultured on after that. I was under the impression that he could grow things on other mediums...I didn't realize we were running the dairy risk no matter what. : I'm also suprised he is giving us L. acidophilus for a four month old that is ebf. I'm holding my breath. We'll see.
He recommended the same thing for my DD...maybe that's just a standard recommendation. I'm not terribly comfortable with it, either, even though she's older and not EBF anymore. I hope it works for you!
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