Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007 - Page 13 - Mothering Forums
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Women's Health > Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007
adoremybabe's Avatar adoremybabe 06:38 PM 01-27-2007
Has anyone ever heard of Agrisept - L? Among many other things is is supposed to help bring Candida levels under control.. It's a concentrated liquid made from Citrus seed extract from grapefruit, lemon, lime and tangerine.

Chinese Pistache's Avatar Chinese Pistache 06:47 PM 01-27-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
Ok, haven't read the article yet, but just to question this a bit....Based on what I know now about stool, intestines and general gut health, I have been constipated most of my life. It got "bad" a year ago when the very extreme (in my mind) bloating started. Throughout all of the various things I have tried in the past year, the constipation got much better, only now to be worse again, and has been for a little while.

The food allergy testing all came back showing I have no allergies, not even a little bit. Just got back from the allergist and he very much thinks that I have contact dermatitis. Am absolutely clueless as to what could be causing it. I need to find a dermatologist who does skin patch testing. Until then, I need to stay on the steroids I am taking. Ugh.

But I guess atopic dermatitis is not the same as contact dermatitis, is it?

Just had lunch of yogurt and a banana and my stomach is totally distended. Will it ever stop????????
Moonshine, have you had one of th IgG tests? The allergy tests offered by allergists/MDs/allopaths are usually the IgE (histamine) variety. They don't yet recognize that many food intolerances and sensitivities also involve the immune system. I believe that Firefaery ordered hers through Immunolabs, and some people on the allergy board have had them done.
moonshine's Avatar moonshine 10:22 PM 01-27-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
Moonshine, have you had one of th IgG tests? The allergy tests offered by allergists/MDs/allopaths are usually the IgE (histamine) variety. They don't yet recognize that many food intolerances and sensitivities also involve the immune system. I believe that Firefaery ordered hers through Immunolabs, and some people on the allergy board have had them done.
Sigh. I just had blood drawn today. I will try to call Monday to see if they can add it, although I rather doubt it.
Pookietooth's Avatar Pookietooth 02:02 AM 01-28-2007
Moonshine, there are other tests for food intolerances besides a blood draw for IgG, but they are usually not covered by insurance or administered by mainstream labs. There is also muscle testing or kineseology, which you can actually perform yourself with the help of a partner, where you hold a food and the other person pulls your arm as you resist (the specifics are in the book "Energy Medicine" by Donna Eden). And then there is the elimination diet, which either removes one food at a time or all of them (adding one back in at a time).
Food intolerances aren't true allergies, so they are harder to detect. But they are thought by some to be behind not only digestive problems but also a lot of inflammatory conditions, including arthritis and chronic fatigue. See: http://www.foodallergytest.com/
and
http://www.immunesupport.com/library.../1/T/CFIDS_FM/
http://www.ei-resource.org/allergies.asp
http://www.allergyclinic.co.uk/tests_blood.htm

Wendy, as far as the enzymes, maybe you are either reacting to the plants or mold or bacteria used to produce them, or to die-off. Some people can't tolerate bromelain or papain because they are high in salicylates. I think Houston's makes some that are plant-free.
Panserbjorne's Avatar Panserbjorne 11:45 AM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerluddite View Post
except that there's always other stuff, too, on your own hands: dirt, food, lotion, soap residue...
Okay, contaminate wasn't the right word-just taking it from the previous post. If you touch another's person's remedy you can neutralize any beneficial effect. Not so if you touch your own. It may be dirty, but it would still be effective.
wendy1221's Avatar wendy1221 12:15 PM 01-28-2007
I'm quoting my post b/c it was the last post on the last page and I don't think anyone know it's there. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wendy1221 View Post
Hey, thought I'd post this here since you guys would have more experience. I had to quit taking my Enzymedica enzymes. THey were giving me horrible stinky gas and accompanying stomach cramps. I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, and no one has any idea what's wrong. I quit taking them for months and I took one last week and it happened again. I waited a few days before trying again and same thing. Do you have any idea what's going on here? THanks. Sorry if that was TMI for anyone.

caedmyn's Avatar caedmyn 12:28 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendy1221 View Post
I'm quoting my post b/c it was the last post on the last page and I don't think anyone know it's there. Thanks!
You got one answer on post #364...I don't really have any ideas on why that would happen unless you're reacting to something in the enzymes themselves. Did you try starting out with a very low dose (just a sprinkle on food, I know they taste horrible) and working your way up slowly? That would tell you if it's die-off of sorts or a reaction to the enzymes themselves.
LovinLiviLou's Avatar LovinLiviLou 01:06 PM 01-28-2007
Are leftovers out for all foods on failsafe, or just meats? I haven't found anything specific to which food increase in amine content vs which do not. I'm specifically wondering about rice and veggies. Thanks!
caedmyn's Avatar caedmyn 06:52 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou View Post
Are leftovers out for all foods on failsafe, or just meats? I haven't found anything specific to which food increase in amine content vs which do not. I'm specifically wondering about rice and veggies. Thanks!
I'm pretty certain that amines increase in all foods as they age. I think I read that unless you're very sensitive to amines, you can store food for 12-24 hrs (less is better, though). Otherwise you should freeze whatever you're not eating right away or at the next meal.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 11:09 PM 01-29-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
Jane we're at this point. Dd has food allergies as a result of her leaky gut. I've had to hunt down supplements that are free of her allergens (corn is incredibly pervasive), but I worry about the reactions we get to so many fruits and vegetables. I don't believe they are "true allergies" yet. So, I'm slowly adding in enzymes (we've already found a safe probiotic, though it doesn't have all the strains I would like), and once I rule out an allergic reaction, I'll add in the others.

So, my question, with your ds, regardless of whether or not an allergen was diagnosed as a true IgE allergy, if you witnessed a reaction to some food, did you eliminate it until you could do more gut-healing before re-introducing it?

Also, when do you give your ds enzymes and how much do you give? We just started using Phytopharmica plant-based enzymes, btw.

Thanks.
Enzymedica enzymes are without additives I think but then you have the bromelain/papain issue which I just posted about in the pinepple allergy thread in Allergies forum. I'm not familiar with the brand you mention.

I give Zyme Prime, No Fenol and AFP Peptizyde from www.houstonni.com. They have celluose as only other ingredients than fungal based enzymes, no fruit. We are now on

Breakfast: ZP, NF, AFPP
Snack: sometimes ZP depending on what it is
Lunch: ZP, AFPP
Snack: as above
Dinner: ZP

Working up to including AFPP with dinner, as he reacted with hyperactivity at first to high proteases. And actually today was the first day he got a whole capsule of AFPP with lunch and he is sound asleep before 8PM!!!

Enzymes are crucial for us. They definitely helped to handle reactions but still we were at such a point they were not enough. Yes, we did do a period of only foods he is not allergic to at first after we did testing (intradermal). It was very very hard.

Only: goat/cow dairy (raw/cultured), beef, chicken, turkey, salmon, haddock, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, lettuce, peas, pears, bananas, lemon, strawberries, sweet potatoes, arrowroot. He reacted to about 25 other foods.

However, yes, sweet potatoes and strawberries and raw pears still couldn't be handled EVEN WITH enzymes b/c his gut was still so inflamed. Just like I constantly saw reactions to carrots, which is did not test allergic to. That is why an Elimination Diet is so very difficult to figure out. At least was so for us b/c there were just so many foods he is allergic to. An inflamed gut is so damaged, enzyme production is greatly impaired and practically ensures no foods are being broken down properly. Maybe if I had given him tons of enzymes? I don't know, was wary of that approach given reactions in past.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 11:18 PM 01-29-2007
BTW I wanted to keep that "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" thread more geared to prevention rather than healing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
I have no idea what the book was called, I just found it interesting that so many of the same things were attributed to two totally different causes:shru

Absolutely...meaning absolutely that might not be enough probiotics? I called a pediatric allergist's office and the nurse said testing was not accurate in such a young kid and an elimination diet was the best way to detect allergies at DD's age. I know she reacts to dairy, wheat, tree nuts, and coconut. She may also react to eggs--I'm having a really hard time figuring out if she does or not, even after eliminating them for 2 weeks and re-introducing with her eating them as well now. If she does it's a very minor reaction but there's enough little things that aren't quite right that I wonder if she is reacting to eggs.

And on another subject...is 1/2 tsp. of EPO a day enough for DD to take directly?
I much more buy the sugar argument Nancy Appleton makes b/c of mineral balance issue, and the fact that our enzymes won't work correctly without enough minerals in body! It was very interesting to me in light of all the other things I've learned about minerals ie. WAPF and MT's Immunity thread.

"Absolutely" meaning there are other things beside intestinal flora interfering with gut that probiotics can't all fix. I do think you can "fix" an allergic child in the very beginning with probiotics... when they are still an infant and their immune system hasn't decided that foods are allergens... by closing up their leaky gut with bifidus. And maybe if they are not so far gone. Or maybe with the right ones. But the last 2 factors are not as concrete to me as the first.

My DS is allergic to all the foods you list ex. dairy, so that could indeed be the case for your babe too that you are dealing with a lot of them.

1/2 tsp is what, 2.5 grams? Maybe enough, maybe need more. I think I posted more about EPO dosing from Leo Galland's book in Excema Tribe thread? Whatever that big eczema thread is called, I forget. I think Mercola said even more 6 grams but not sure if that was adult or child. I swear it was child but he has since taken it off his site I cannot find.
Chinese Pistache's Avatar Chinese Pistache 01:23 AM 01-30-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Enzymedica enzymes are without additives I think but then you have the bromelain/papain issue which I just posted about in the pinepple allergy thread in Allergies forum. I'm not familiar with the brand you mention.

I give Zyme Prime, No Fenol and AFP Peptizyde from www.houstonni.com. They have celluose as only other ingredients than fungal based enzymes, no fruit. We are now on

Breakfast: ZP, NF, AFPP
Snack: sometimes ZP depending on what it is
Lunch: ZP, AFPP
Snack: as above
Dinner: ZP

Working up to including AFPP with dinner, as he reacted with hyperactivity at first to high proteases. And actually today was the first day he got a whole capsule of AFPP with lunch and he is sound asleep before 8PM!!!

Enzymes are crucial for us. They definitely helped to handle reactions but still we were at such a point they were not enough. Yes, we did do a period of only foods he is not allergic to at first after we did testing (intradermal). It was very very hard.

Only: goat/cow dairy (raw/cultured), beef, chicken, turkey, salmon, haddock, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, lettuce, peas, pears, bananas, lemon, strawberries, sweet potatoes, arrowroot. He reacted to about 25 other foods.

However, yes, sweet potatoes and strawberries and raw pears still couldn't be handled EVEN WITH enzymes b/c his gut was still so inflamed. Just like I constantly saw reactions to carrots, which is did not test allergic to. That is why an Elimination Diet is so very difficult to figure out. At least was so for us b/c there were just so many foods he is allergic to. An inflamed gut is so damaged, enzyme production is greatly impaired and practically ensures no foods are being broken down properly. Maybe if I had given him tons of enzymes? I don't know, was wary of that approach given reactions in past.
Thank you for giving this information. If I could go back in time. . .

We have more allergy testing tomorrow (immunocap). And then, I'm keeping a food log for the allergist for 2 wks and I am going to request in-office skin pricks for suspect foods when we return in 3 wks. I'm hoping to figure out what are true allergies and what are reactions as a result of leaky gut. If true allergies, then, we'll avoid those for a good while, but if not, I'd like to use them to monitor how well the enzymes are working and how well her gut is healing.

Dd woke with clear skin this morning and now it's all inflamed again. I suspect apricots. The thing that frustrates me is not being able to isolate if the reaction is a result of something she's eaten or something I've eaten. For the most part, we have identical meals, but sometimes, she won't eat one or more items from the meal (like chicken), or I'll have an additional piece of fruit or something. She and I are not anywhere near ready to wean, but sometimes I think it would be easier:

Anyway, I've been giving enzymes, but today she had diarrhea. Could that be a result of the enzymes? BTW, we're taking this: http://www.phytostore.com/product/763948142392.html But I'm going to bet the Peptizyde one from Houston's. I'm reading DeFelice's book again, too.

Thank you again, Jane. I think it's really generous of you to share your knowledge.
Bestbirths's Avatar Bestbirths 01:59 AM 01-30-2007
Can anyone review this list of what we are using and help me figure out the diarrea?

DD usually has constipation. We struggle to keep her pooping each day.

Our only new things are Naproxen, Serratio120K (high dose serrapepdidase 120,000 iu), and Natto-K or nattokinase. We used crushed aleve from the 19th to the 22nd, then switched to naproxen liquid from the 22nd until now. We started serratio120K around the 22nd, and the natto-k the 25th. For the past week we have had diarrea. I stopped the serratio120K for a day and the diarrea went away, it caused more joint pain is why I stopped it for a day. I don't know if joint pain and diarrea is a good herx reaction to this enzyme or a sign to discontinue.

With what else she is taking...should we discontinue the flaxseed and clo until the diarrea goes away? Discontinue Serratio120K?
caedmyn's Avatar caedmyn 09:33 AM 01-30-2007
Sort of OT, but...has anyone heard of an ozone food sterilizer? They're supposed to remove all traces of pesticide residues. I'm not sure "sterilizing" food is necessarily a good idea, but since I mostly buy conventional produce, I thought it might be worth getting. Here's a couple of links...thoughts, anyone?

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/ca...ils/sku__TS600
http://healingtools.tripod.com/NK.html
formerluddite's Avatar formerluddite 10:37 AM 01-30-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Sort of OT, but...has anyone heard of an ozone food sterilizer? They're supposed to remove all traces of pesticide residues. I'm not sure "sterilizing" food is necessarily a good idea, but since I mostly buy conventional produce, I thought it might be worth getting. Here's a couple of links...thoughts, anyone?

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/ca...ils/sku__TS600
http://healingtools.tripod.com/NK.html
i heard about them a few months ago, was interested, then i think i read something saying they didn't work. sorry for the vagueness.
wendy1221's Avatar wendy1221 02:38 PM 01-30-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Sort of OT, but...has anyone heard of an ozone food sterilizer? They're supposed to remove all traces of pesticide residues. I'm not sure "sterilizing" food is necessarily a good idea, but since I mostly buy conventional produce, I thought it might be worth getting. Here's a couple of links...thoughts, anyone?

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/ca...ils/sku__TS600
http://healingtools.tripod.com/NK.html
I seriously doubt it works. And even if it did, I would not want to be producing ozone in my house. It's a strong oxidizer and possible mutagen (genetic damage.) I imagine that it could possibly be forming as many dangerous compounds as it destroys if you add it to your food. http://www.worksafesask.ca/files/cco...fo/cie774.html

I feel the same way about those "air purifiers" that basically create ozone in your room. Bad idea, imo. Ozone is great and safe for water purification, though. I just hope the workers at water plants that use ozone wear the proper safety equipment.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 01:02 AM 01-31-2007
CP & BB:

I believe I have read that enzymes can cause diarrhea ... something about increasing water in the system? I think also if you are causing die off the body will try to flush out dead stuff as the microbial balance shifts. True definition of diarrhea is watery stools more than 3x/day. You might be noticing looser stools for the above reasons, unless other undesirable symptoms, you might want to wait and see how things shake out.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 01:10 AM 01-31-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendy1221 View Post
Hey, thought I'd post this here since you guys would have more experience. I had to quit taking my Enzymedica enzymes. THey were giving me horrible stinky gas and accompanying stomach cramps. I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, and no one has any idea what's wrong. I quit taking them for months and I took one last week and it happened again. I waited a few days before trying again and same thing. Do you have any idea what's going on here? THanks. Sorry if that was TMI for anyone.
Hmmm... well Enzymedica has no other fillers than enzymes ...maybe you are sensitive to the specific funguses (aspergillus) used to create the enzymes? Or the bromelain/papain issue I posted about in another thread... are you allergic to pineapple/papaya?

Could be die off too maybe? which Enzymedica product was it? You took with food?
Punchy Kaby's Avatar Punchy Kaby 01:26 AM 01-31-2007
HI JaneS!
Could you post again how to test for iodine?
moonshine's Avatar moonshine 01:44 AM 01-31-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolansmum View Post
HI JaneS!
Could you post again how to test for iodine?
You mean putting an iodine patch on your skin? I believe it is supposed to stay for 48 hours? Search the Nutrition thread for the specifics.

When I first did it, it was gone within 4 hours or so. I have been supplementing with kelp fairly regularly, as well as using sea salt in cooking. I put a patch on this afternoon, around 4, and I still have a faint one, so I guess I am doing a bit better. You can also use the patch as a supplement.
moonshine's Avatar moonshine 01:46 AM 01-31-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Sort of OT, but...has anyone heard of an ozone food sterilizer? They're supposed to remove all traces of pesticide residues. I'm not sure "sterilizing" food is necessarily a good idea, but since I mostly buy conventional produce, I thought it might be worth getting. Here's a couple of links...thoughts, anyone?

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/ca...ils/sku__TS600
http://healingtools.tripod.com/NK.html
Have you tried H2O2? I believe Fallon mentions a few methods to "clean" produce in NT, the H2O2 being one method.
wendy1221's Avatar wendy1221 11:21 PM 01-31-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Hmmm... well Enzymedica has no other fillers than enzymes ...maybe you are sensitive to the specific funguses (aspergillus) used to create the enzymes? Or the bromelain/papain issue I posted about in another thread... are you allergic to pineapple/papaya?

Could be die off too maybe? which Enzymedica product was it? You took with food?
It was Digest. My hfs only carries 2, this one and another brand, can't remember the name. I did take it w/ food.

I have no problems w/ pineapple or papaya. My only food allergy is egg, although dairy bothers me a little (I don't drink milk at all, just yogurt and some cheese sometimes. I used to be allergic to milk, but am not anymore.) I LOVE piineapple. They've been carrying fresh organic ones locally lately and my kids and I eat them until our mouths are too sore.

I think you may have something there w/ the aspergillus thing. I don't remember reading that it contains aspergillus. This is the same bacteria found in miso, right? I also get similar symptoms from miso. I bought a whole tub of chick pea miso from South River months ago, but haven't been using it for the same reason as the enzymes. I assumed it was the chick peas, b/c I also get this from hummus, but I add miso to my hummus usually and leave it out at room temp for a few hours before refrigerating. hmmmm......

Is there another brand of enzymes that you tihnk I would do well with? I'll see if that's the one my hfs has, if not I'll order it online. Thanks so much!
wendy1221's Avatar wendy1221 11:26 PM 01-31-2007
Peroxides form free radicals, the very thing we are all trying to avoid having in our bodies when we take anti-oxidants, like vit C. I think the very best way to handle produce is to buy organic when you can and avoid the dirty dozen when you can't. I don't think there is any real way of removing pesticides from produce. THe pesticides are down in the vegetable, not just on the surface, so anything you use to try and destroy the pesticides will also affect the food, and the vitamins in the food. Pesticide laden foods already have fewer vitamins and minerals.

Commercial meat and milk have more pesticides per serving than a months' worth of vegetables, due to pesticides being fat soluble and accumulating in fats. If you are worried about pesticides in your body, then cutting them out of your meat and milk by only buying organic meats and milk will do a lot more for this than anything you can do w/ vegetables, assuming you are not vegan, that is.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 02:16 PM 02-02-2007
Wendy, I think you should call and talk to Dr. Houston about the reactions you notice and see what he says www.houstonni.com

I think his enzymes are the best, expensive, but most effective I've found and the personal attention is a bonus.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 02:18 PM 02-02-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendy1221 View Post
Peroxides form free radicals, the very thing we are all trying to avoid having in our bodies when we take anti-oxidants, like vit C.
Except probiotics form hydrogen peroxide and this is supposed to be a good thing... natural antibiotic and all that.

I have Ed McCabe's book "Flood Your Body with Oxygen" but haven't read it yet, it came highly recommended from a sister research freak.
JaneS's Avatar JaneS 02:18 PM 02-02-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
You mean putting an iodine patch on your skin? I believe it is supposed to stay for 48 hours? Search the Nutrition thread for the specifics.

When I first did it, it was gone within 4 hours or so. I have been supplementing with kelp fairly regularly, as well as using sea salt in cooking. I put a patch on this afternoon, around 4, and I still have a faint one, so I guess I am doing a bit better. You can also use the patch as a supplement.
Price Pottenger Nutritional foundation says 24 hrs. And you can put the patch continuously on your skin (in diff. areas) to tank up your thyroid until it stays for 24 hrs.
Pattyla's Avatar Pattyla 06:47 PM 02-02-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Wendy, I think you should call and talk to Dr. Houston about the reactions you notice and see what he says www.houstonni.com

I think his enzymes are the best, expensive, but most effective I've found and the personal attention is a bonus.
I want to second that. I have been having bad reactions to the enzymes and he is extremely knowledgable and very willing to reply to e-mails about enzymes.

As an aside my chiro finally figured out that it was my pancreas getting grumpy about the proteases in the enzymes. I'm on malic acid to support my pancreas and it seems to be better. He said that a better source of malic acid is apple juice but since dd is alergic to apples I have to do the suppliment.
moonshine's Avatar moonshine 03:22 AM 02-06-2007
Anyone still around? How is everyone doing?

I will post my about my various doctor visits tomorrow and see what y'all think.
MommyofPunkiePie's Avatar MommyofPunkiePie 06:49 AM 02-06-2007
I can't find a February thread. Has one been started?
caedmyn's Avatar caedmyn 11:59 AM 02-06-2007
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